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New Day

ICU Beds Running Out in Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi; Unions Under Fire for Opposing Vaccine Mandates for Workers; More New Evidence Shows Trump's Blatant Attempt at Coup. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired August 05, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: The answer is, who is Mike Richards. Mike Richards is an executive producer of Jeopardy and he filled in very early on almost by accident after Alex Trebek passed away. So, he is now in contention for the job.

When I had sources and agents tell me that he was seriously contender for the permanent job, I didn't believe it at first. But as you said, overnight, Variety saying there are advanced negotiations for Mike Richards to take over. So this is the Dick Cheney move. You're on the search committee to find the person and then you end up picking yourself.

It is technically a little more complicated than that. There're lots of other executives at Sony that are involved in this decision, but it is a big surprise to a lot of Jeopardy fans to see the producer likely becoming the new host.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Is it really more complicated than that? I mean, I don't want to give the impression I'm all sour grapes, because I am sour grapes. So don't get the impression, it's just a fact. But the guy was involved with the search. I mean, I pick me.

STELTER: Maybe he figured it out years ago when he was positioning himself to be a producer of Jeopardy. Maybe this was a long game. But actually he has hosted game shows in the past for GSM, for the B.W., for C.W., reality shows as well. So he does have a hosting track record and I thought he did get pretty strong reviews when he did fill in.

I think something that's going on here, John, is interesting the producer of Jeopardy, I'm told, want a full-time host. They want someone who is committed to the show, who is known for only doing Jeopardy. And that's a hard thing when you're trying out some of the biggest stars in the world, like Aaron Rodgers, for example, who really wanted the job. The reality is a lot of people really wanted this job. Maybe choosing the producer is the easy way out, maybe.

BERMAN: It's hard to get the job when the producer wants it, just saying, just saying.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: No sour grapes. You are a great contestant though, Berman, we know that. Brian, it's awesome to see you this morning.

STELTER: Thanks.

KEILAR: And New Day continues right now.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Thursday, August 5th.

And this morning, a critical shortage of ICU beds and medical staff is pushing hospitals in COVID hot spots to the breaking point. In Arkansas, a health official tells CNN that only 25 ICU beds are available in the state. In Mississippi, that number is six, six ICU beds for an entire state.

The U.S. now on the brink of an unfortunate and avoidable milestone, returning to more than 100,000 cases a day.

BERMAN: There is an alarming rise in cases of children in Arkansas. Between April and July, cases among kids under 18 spiked 517 percent, hospitalizations 270 percent and ICU admissions up 275 percent. Those are huge increases.

The governor of Arkansas, who banned mask mandates, has seen the data and since changed his mind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AK): Our cases were at a low point. Everything has changed now. And, yes, in hindsight, I wish that had not become law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We have reporters across the country covering every new angle of this pandemic.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Nadia Romero in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

The governor here says they used to have about two deaths a day a month ago. Now, they're recording 103 deaths in just two days. He's asking everyone to mask up. His mandate began on Wednesday and he's also telling people to get vaccinated.

Here at this vaccination site, we've met plenty of people who are getting their kids vaccinated right before school starts and even some people who say they were vaccine-hesitant. But now, their fear of the delta variant outweighs their concerns over the vaccine.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Martin Savidge. In Arkansas, daily new coronavirus hospitalizations have been skyrocketing while at the same time burnout amongst healthcare workers has also been on the rise.

At the state's only level one trauma center, they're reporting over 200 nursing job vacancies they can't fill, despite the fact they're offering $25,000 signing bonuses. Healthcare workers say what's different this surge is that most of their new patients chose not to get vaccinated, leaving medical staff overworked, stressed and frustrated.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More Georgia schools reopen this week, but each district had a different approach as to how to do that safely as concerns grow about the highly-infectious delta variant.

Some counties, like Gwinnett, are opening with the reinstated mask mandate. It's there where last week a group of parents gathered to protest news of a mask policy, holding what they called unmask our children event. Some shouted that the decision to wear a mask should be left up to parents and children in rural Georgia. Students and teachers will have that choice.

[07:05:01]

Barrow County reopened this week without requiring masks. A local principal told us that they're honoring parents' and students' personal decision. A parent of a 14-year-old says she wants her daughter to have the freedom to express herself, even if that freedom comes at the expense of getting herself or someone else sick.

BERMAN: In Florida, it is Biden versus DeSantis. The Republican governor of Florida is hitting back at the president after he said governors who are not helping in the fight against COVID should get out of the way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Joe Biden suggests that if you don't do lockdown policies, then you should, quote, get out of the way. Well, let me tell you this, if you're coming after the rights of parents in Florida, I'm standing in your way. I'm not going to let you get away with it.

So why don't you do your job, why don't you get this border secure, and until you do that, I don't want to hear a blip about COVID from you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What is happening with COVID in Florida? It's leading the country in new cases. It's seeing the largest number of hospitalizations since the previous peak in July of 2020, accounting for 20 percent of COVID hospitalizations in the U.S. alone.

DeSantis has been fighting hard to keep companies from mandating masks or allowing them at all to issue vaccine requirements.

Joining us now is Political Reporter Gary Fineout, who spent the past two decades covering Florida politics and government and puts together Politico's Florida pay book. You are Florida man, as far as we're concerned this morning, Gary. Thank you so much for being with us.

Ron DeSantis, the governor there, you know, punching back at Joe Biden as the cases in his state rise and hospitalizations hit record levels. What does he get out of that?

GARY FINEOUT, REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, we had a conversation about this a couple of weeks ago, and I inferred that I didn't think he was going to back down and he's not going to back down. This plays very well with the Republican base. As we've discussed before, if you see him as a potential 2024 contender, I mean, he's taking it to the president and he's firing up the people that are important to his re- election and to beyond.

BERMAN: So, there are Republicans, there are Democrats and then there's COVID, right? And COVID, the situation in Florida is bad and, by all accounts, getting worse with hospitalizations rising and at record levels here. What are the risks for DeSantis here?

FINEOUT: Well, I think the risks are whether or not this thing doesn't turn around. Again, he has stressed repeatedly that this is a seasonal event, that he feels the numbers are going to stabilize and they're going to go back down over the next few weeks.

And the thing about it is that this wave is a little bit different than the one from before. You have some places where the hospitalizations and the number of COVID patients aren't as bad as last time, but then you have other places where it's worse.

And interestingly enough, there was a CEO of one hospital system yesterday who said point blank, well, in Miami-Dade it's not as bad because we have a higher vaccination rate. So, you have got hospital CEOs drawing a correlation between, look, in our communities where there are vaccines, people taking the vaccines, we're not seeing that as a problem.

Now, of course, what's interesting is that, yesterday, the governor in his rebuke of President Biden, suggested that immigrants coming in from the border, maybe it's just as big a problem as anything else.

BERMAN: Right. Again, this is as cases are arising in Florida there.

How about potential push back from parents in some of these school districts where the school districts are -- it's almost impossible for them. Some are fighting back and issuing mask requirements. But we're starting to hear some parents getting upset about the fact that masks are not being required.

FINEOUT: Right. And what you have seen interestingly so far is, and that's another point of tension, I mean, the governor has made it very clear that he does not support any kind of mask mandate, says it should be optional for parents to decide that fact. And you have seen a couple districts that waded into, okay, we'll we want to kind of do this on our own.

I mean, as I sit back and watch this, it's going to be interesting, are they going to continue to stick to their guns and are they willing to fight the governor in his executive order dealing with masks, he basically said, there is the potential of withholding your state funds if you impose a mask mandate. So, I mean, the question is, are we going to have school districts are really going to stand up to him? Now, right now, like a said, a couple are saying that they are willing to do that, but you know, we still haven't seen that play out.

BERMAN: It's really interesting to watch. People need to remember the political margins in Florida, particular for governor's races, they are so small, right, so small, the margins for victory and defeat.

[07:10:02]

So, you know, who knows which way this pushes things over the next few years. COVID may have a lot to play in that.

Gary Fineout, always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much.

FINEOUT: Thank you for having me on.

KEILAR: We are seeing a growing list of companies mandating vaccinations for their employees as the delta variant surges, but some labor unions are not happy. Just this week, Tyson Foods announced it will require all its workers to be fully vaccinated by November 1st. Tyson stating this, we did not take this decision lightly. We have spent months encouraging our team members to get vaccinated. Today, under half of our team members are.

The labor union that represents workers at Tyson is pushing back. They call this mandate concerning.

And joining me now is Marc Perrone, the president of that union, the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, which represents 1.3 million workers in the meat packing and grocery industries and represents so many of these workers in Iowa working for Tyson Foods. Marc, thank you so much for being with us.

And I do want to ask you why delay a -- potentially delay a vaccine mandate while you have delta surging? I mean, this is a very serious variant that is very different from the ones we have seen in the past.

MARC PERRONE, PRESIDENT, UNITED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS UNION: Good morning, Brianna. Absolutely, I don't think that the delay we're talking about is very long delay. I think that what we're concerned with is really two things, one, that we don't have full FDA approval. It's my understanding that it's coming fairly quickly through the FDA and we're very interested in hearing that.

And we feel as though that a lot of our workers, the ones that we've talked to, said that they have not got vaccinated, they got concerns about whether or not they'll have to take off a day to recoup from getting the vaccine. As you well know, what happens is your system reacts to the vaccine. It, in fact, prepares itself to fight off the virus, if, in fact, it comes in the future. And it has made people feel lethargic. They've had fevers, some people have had chills as our body prepares to fight off the virus, if, in fact, that it comes.

Those are the issues that we're concerned about at this point in time. I think that we're going to be able to resolve this very, very quickly. In a lot of our packing houses that we represent, we're at over 95 percent vaccinated rates --

KEILAR: Okay. I got to -- Marc, I got to stop you there. Tyson says less than half of its team members are vaccinated. We're talking about the Tyson mandate. So, I mean, you can't be talking about who you're repping writ large because we're talking about Tyson here, less than half.

PERRONE: Well, I think that what you have to understand is a lot of the Tyson plants are, in fact, nonunion and a lot of those plants are located in the southern parts of the United States where we have extremely low vaccination rates. We have other locations where Tyson is over 80 percent vaccinated. But it sort of varies depending on the locations.

And so what we're trying to do is have a reasonable conversation with them about what ultimately happens to these workers, if, in fact, they get impacted by taking the vaccine at least initially. And we think that we've done pretty well with them so far and we've done well with pretty much all of the companies that we represent.

KEILAR: So I wonder the -- let's talk about the EUA. Because, as you mention, I mean, it sounds like that's a moot point. So, why are you bringing that up? Because if the FDA is expected to have full authorization for the Pfizer vaccine come Labor Day, and this is a November 1st deadline, why is that -- it just seems like an issue that's being brought up that's actually a nonissue.

PERRONE: Well, I think that it is an issue with the people that haven't had the vaccine yet, Brianna. In all fairness, I do believe that we do have some people that are still concerned and whether or not it's going to impact them or not. A lot of people feel as though the vaccine was somewhat rushed. I don't have to be one of those folks. And most of my local presidents around the country don't either.

We did have, in fact, had a meeting with our locals yesterday. We had this discussion. It was raised -- it leads from the information that they had received from their membership about the concerns that they had about it.

So, I don't want to discount that. And while -- comfortable with it, and we certainly do, there are other people that need a little bit more information and we need to provide it to them and we're trying to do that as an organization.

KEILAR: Okay. So, let's talk about that, because you're saying that there are people you represent who have concerns, which, I mean, quite frankly, they aren't based in science and they aren't based in what protects people, which is vaccine.

[07:15:01]

So, in May -- you represent grocery store workers. In May, you told my colleague, Ana Cabrera, as you came on to support grocery store workers who were concerned because the CDC had relaxed masking mandates for vaccinated people. You had grocery store workers who are working in grocery stores going, okay, there's people not wearing masks but how do I know if they're vaccinated or not. And this is what you said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRONE: Now, we have a situation where you really don't know whether or not somebody has been vaccinated or not. And you're going to change them from the mask police to the vaccination police. And I think it's very difficult.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Look, I know you're in a tough spot when you're representing folks who have opinions about the vaccine that's not based in science. But in that particular case when it was union members versus customers, the union came out on the side of science. Now, when you have union members versus other union members, the union is not coming out on the side of science here. They haven't advocated for a vaccine mandate and you're talking about doing things to slow this because of concerns that people have that are not based in science.

PERRONE: I want to be clear, look, we're based all of our decisions that we had in conversation about science. Whether or not it was the mask mandate -- and we still believe that that is a mitigating procedure that we can all do in order to slow this virus.

KEILAR: Sure, masks are great, Marc, but vaccines are better.

PERRONE: And, honestly, Brianna, we don't think that it's a one and done because now we have the lambda variant, which is resistant to some of the vaccines.

So, we do, in fact, need to do a two-pronged approach on this. I don't think there's any question about that.

KEILAR: It resists, Marc, just to be -- we have to be very clear here, I just want our viewers to know, first off, lambda is not as concerns as delta. But when you're talking about vaccine --

PERRON: Not yet.

KEILAR: When you're talking about -- not yet -- I mean, lambda would have to be something else. When you look at lambda head to head with delta, it's not. But when you're talking about resistance here, you're talking about this isn't -- that's the concern is that if people don't get vaccinated, that there actually does turn out to be resistance to vaccines in a way that would hurt people.

Right, now the difference that you're seeing in the vaccine, say, from the original variant compared to the delta one is that people may be able to pass it on, but they're still protected themselves from dying or from hospitalization and they're less likely to contract it, which means they're still less likely to be a vector. So I just want to be very clear about what you're saying.

PERRONE: You're not getting a disagreement from me. You're really not. Here is what's happening though. We do have some members that have some concerns and we're trying to address those. And we do think that one of the things that would help address those issues or whether or not, A, that they're going to get protected, as it relates to if they get sick from the vaccine, and, B, that we think that it would be a better piece of information to give them if it was fully FDA approved. And I think that all of those things are coming very quickly. And, you know, I don't think that it's going to take that much time to sit down and have a conversation with the company about it.

KEILAR: And the union will support the mandate if you have the EUA moving to the full approval, which it will, and a reasonable --

PERRONE: I absolutely believe that the union will support that issue. Yes, ma'am, I do. Because we are, in fact, an organization that does, in fact, believe in science.

KEILAR: Marc, look, it's a really complicated subject. I know you have a lot of people with different views on this that you're representing and we really appreciate the conversation. Thank you.

PERRONE: I don't think it's as bad as all that. I do think we have some people that are legitimately concerned --

KEILAR: That are what concerned?

PERRONE: That are very much legitimately have concerns about it.

KEILAR: Marc, thank you so much for being with us.

PERRONE: Thank you.

BERMAN: So here to continue the conversation, Linda Chavez, former American Federation of Teachers Assistant to the president, she's also a former Reagan White House official. Linda, thank you so much for being with us.

Look, I've been a member of three unions that have come up in my career over the course of my television career. Oftentimes, unions just don't want to give anything away without a negotiation. And to a certain extent, I feel like that's what I'm hearing here. I didn't hear that I'm opposed to mandating vaccines among our union members, just we have to be part of this negotiation. You have got to wait for us to agree. What do you make of this?

LINDA CHAVEZ, FORMER AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT: I think that's exactly right, John. I think this is more about union politics than it certainly is about science. You had Marc Perrone essentially saying that he had some members who he thought had legitimate reasons to be concerned.

[07:20:01]

That's him playing to those votes when he comes up for election next time. Union presidents are politicians, just like legislatures and governors and everybody else are, and I think it's really unfortunate because this is an instance where it is the unvaccinated are jeopardizing the lives of people around them. And this is not a question of, you know, whether or not you have a 15-minute or a 20- minute break, this is a question of whether you live or die.

And these are workers, particularly in the poultry plants, I was also the director of Pilgrim's Pride, one of the largest chicken manufacturers, and these are conditions in these plants where it is very difficult to avoid personal contact with others, they are very crowded spaces, the plants are very cold, and you really don't want people on those lines who might infect co-workers, shut down the plant and infect their communities.

BERMAN: And then you have issues with teachers, where some teachers unions and locals, and these are some of the same teachers and locals that said teachers won't go back until everyone is vaccinated now saying, we're not on board yet with requiring vaccinations among teachers. How is that justified?

CHAVEZ: Well, I really adamantly disagree with Randi Weingarten on this. She is the president of the American Federation of Teachers. I really think it's disgraceful.

Look, employers do legally have the right to require vaccines. We've had this litigated. The Methodist --Houston Methodist Hospital was one of the first to mandate vaccines. It went to court. And the judge essentially laughed the suit out of court.

We have a long history in the United States. This goes back really almost to colonial times where it was decided that governments could, in fact, regulate conditions when it came to health. And here, we have an instance, 611,000 people have died in the United States. We have a vaccine that can essentially stop those deaths from occurring certainly in great numbers. And for people to resist this is wrong and I think it is absolutely within the rights of an employer to allow those mandates.

BERMAN: And there's no time for delay. Even if this is a negotiating thing to get in there and be in favor of a month, we don't have a month necessarily at this point with the number of cases rising.

Linda Chavez, I appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you very much.

CHAVEZ: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, new evidence makes it clear that, really, Donald Trump and people supporting him inside the government were trying to pull off a coup. So what happens?

KEILAR: Plus, exclusive new reporting about the U.S. intelligence investigation into the origin of the coronavirus pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00] BERMAN: How far was the former president willing to go to stay in office? According to internal Justice Department emails obtained by ABC News, Trump loyalist Jeffrey Clark, who was working at DOJ, circulated a draft letter urging top Georgia officials to investigate Trump's baseless fraud claims reading in part, quote, the Department of Justice is investigating various irregularities in the 2020 election for president of the United States. The department will update you as we're able on investigatory progress, but at this time, we've identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states, including the state of Georgia.

Now, none of that was true, but it was being written by a Justice Department official on paper.

Joining me now is former Chief of DOJ Counterintelligence Section David H. Laufman. He's also partner at Wiggin at Dana Law Firm and former chief of staff to the deputy attorney general in the George W. Bush administration.

I got to say, this letter I find it breathtaking. You have a senior DOJ official basically saying the Justice Department thinks the election is a fraud and urging Georgia to overturn that state's election. How do you read it?

DAVID H. LAUFMAN, FORMER CHIEF, DOJ COUNTERINTELLIGENCE SECTION: It's more than breathtaking. It's disgusting and despicable that a senior Department of Justice official was lending the weight and imprimatur of the Department of Justice to an effort to overturn a free and fair election in the United States. And it signifies how perilously close we came to the Department of Justice being weaponized in support of President Trump's efforts to subvert the election and cling to power.

KEILAR: We know that, David, as you said, how perilously close we came, but we also know that, in the end, it held, right, what was supposed to hold with a free and fair election held. But we've seen states weakened by legislation state after state. Are you worried that won't be the case if this were to happen again?

LAUFMAN: Well, I'm very worried about the development of state legislatures acquiring power to alter the results of the ballot. I mean, I can't think of anything more shocking and dangerous to our democracy than that, putting that power in the hands of politicians rather than state election officials, like what happened in the last election.

[07:30:02]

But here is the question with respect to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice is not in the position or role.