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Dad And Daughter Rally To Change Mask Policy In Florida School District; U.S. Intel Scours Genetic Data From Wuhan Lab In Origins Hunt; GOP's Mo Brooks Argues Immunity In Lawsuit Despite DOJ's Rejection. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 05, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

DAVID H. LAUFMAN, FORMER CHIEF, DOJ COUNTERINTELLIGENCE SECTION: Election officials, like what happened in the last election.

But here's the question with respect to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice is not in the position or role of defecting political retribution in the United States. Its job is to investigate whether crimes were committed.

And I defer to the career prosecutors in the public integrity section of the Justice Department's criminal division as to whether the facts here or the facts that would be deduced from an investigation would support a criminal charge. That's one thing.

But it's another thing altogether to forego even taking a close look at the facts to determine whether an investigation should be pursued. And it's my hope that at least that level of inquiry is being undertaken, whether the evidence rises to.

Whether criminal charges should be brought is an entirely different question. But I would find it disturbing if the Department of Justice, at some kind of corporate policy level, had decided not even to look at the relevant facts that are already in plain view and that they may know about that are not in plain view and determine that we just don't want to go there.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Talk to me a little bit more about that, if you can clarify. What do you think it is that DOJ, under Attorney General Merrick Garland, exactly should be looking at now in terms of criminal behavior within the DOJ? What would rise to that level?

LAUFMAN: Well, there's two particular packages of criminal again. And again, I prosecuted national security offenses, not election crimes. But efforts to pressure state election officials in Georgia by personal phone calls by the President of the United States to mid and lower-level election officials in a given state -- his agents, like Rudy Giuliani, making phone calls to these people -- I mean, this is just astounding behavior at the highest levels of the United States government to pressure state government officials to overturn free and fair elections. And whether the applicable facts correspond to the elements of a crime that the Department of Justice would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt before a jury, that's a question left to career prosecutors. And they should have the time and space to evaluate that without all the white noise or pressures being brought to bear by political commentators.

But it's another thing to forego even taking that hard look because of concerns that the Department of Justice will have the appearance of lending its weight to a partisan political investigation.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: David, I wonder how you look back now on Bill Barr's resignation knowing that he knew about this.

LAUFMAN: Well, it certainly raises the question whether he decided to get out of Dodge before Dodge got even rougher than it was, even on his watch. That would not be an understandable reaction on his part.

I will say that the acting attorney general Rosen and his staff, to their credit, were somehow able to hold the line amidst overwhelming pressure being brought to them by the President of the United States seemingly every day to pressure them to pursue criminal investigations to satiate the president's political whims.

So there's a lot about Mr. Barr's tenure that is odious, but to the extent that he was some kind of thin membrane of resistance against the president's efforts to overturn the election, then credit to him.

KEILAR: David, thank you so much for being with us. David Laufman, we really appreciate your perspective on this.

LAUFMAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: We have some new details just in on how the U.S. is investigating the mysterious origin of the coronavirus.

BERMAN: Plus, the Republican lawmaker being sued for his role in the insurrection just broadened his defense that he's never smoked, never sped. He never has been an alcohol drinker, never cheated on his wife. So, what does that have to do with the insurrection?

KEILAR: Hmm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:38:53]

KEILAR: Oh, I know back to school is here in full swing. We're getting ready for it and CNN is taking a closer look at the vaccination rates among children and teens. States in the northeast predominantly have the highest rates of vaccination. And in southern states, many of which have banned mask mandates, vaccination rates are among the lowest in the country.

CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard is with us now on this story. Jacqueline, these numbers are showing the risks that students are going to face when they go back to school. It's really going to depend on where they live.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: That's right, Brianna, it definitely depends on where you live. And what really stands out, like you said, some of the states that have the fewest teens vaccinated -- some of those states also have prohibited mask mandates in schools.

So, for instance, in the state of Arkansas, which has prohibited mask mandates, about 17 percent of 12 to 17-year-olds are fully vaccinated. And we heard recently from Arkansas Gov. Hutchinson who said he regrets banning -- or prohibiting mask mandates in schools. So that's an interesting trend we're finding.

But overall, when you look nationally, these are the states leading the pack when it comes to vaccinating 12 to 17-year olds. Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut -- they've all vaccinated more than half of their adolescents, followed by Maryland and Rhode Island at 49 percent.

[07:40:11]

And then when you look at the states with the least 12 to 17-year-olds vaccinated -- Mississippi, Alabama at 11 percent, then Louisiana, Wyoming, and Tennessee.

And then to give you a national snapshot of how we're doing Brianna, about eight million 12 to 17-year-olds nationwide are fully vaccinated. That number represents about a third of all adolescents across the country. So as a nation, we still have some ways to go as well -- Brianna.

KEILAR: We certainly do. Jacqueline, thank you so much for that.

BERMAN: So, a school superintendent in one Florida county is pleading with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis to allow for a temporary mask mandate as new cases and hospitalizations surge. DeSantis has threatened to cut off state funding for schools that require masks.

The school board in Duval County is now recommending masks but allowing parents to opt-out following a contentious meeting with parents and community groups.

Joining me now is Matt Hartley, along with his 12-year-old daughter, Lila. Lila wrote a letter to the school board pleading for masks in school on behalf of her 12 -- sorry, her 10-year-old younger brother. Thank you both so much for being with us.

Lila, this was quite a letter. I know you have it with you. Can you read part of it for everyone?

LILA HARTLEY, WROTE LETTER TO SCHOOL BOARD PLEADING FOR MASK MANDATE (via Skype): Yes.

MATT HARTLEY, PARENT WHO WANTS MASK MANDATE (via Skype): Start right there.

L. HARTLEY: My brother is 10 years old and I can't get -- and can't get vaccinated. I'm so worried that if masks are not required my brother could go to school one day and the next be dying in the hospital. We are siblings, so we have our rivalries, but I don't know what I'd do if he died, especially if it was caused by a place that means so much to him -- school.

BERMAN: You're sticking up for your little brother there, which is awfully nice. What inspired you to write this?

L. HARTLEY: Well, my dad has been doing the -- that day I wrote this, did a rally and I was really thinking about it.

BERMAN: And Matt, I know that Lila's letter -- you know, it helped inspire you to work even harder. The school board did vote five to two, changing the rules to now strongly recommend masks, but there is an opt-out for people. Is this enough?

M. HARTLEY: You know, yesterday, I was feeling victorious and happy and like maybe this policy would be enacted in a way where many people would be wearing masks. But the last day, I feel like the messages we've got have been very muddy from the school district and I'm worried that this could just be an empty gesture.

BERMAN: Lila, does it feel to you like Gov. -- the governor, Ron DeSantis, in your state doesn't want kids wearing masks?

L. HARTLEY: Yes, it does. It feels like he -- it feels like they're not taking the precautions to keep students who can't get vaccinated or who can still get sick safe.

BERMAN: And Matt, do you feel safe with Lila and your son going to school -- I guess, what, in a week -- not even?

M. HARTLEY: Yes, this is so heavy for me. You know, Lila's vaccinated so she has that extra layer of protection. We want our kids to be in school learning, but Will does not because he's 10 and he's too young and his classmates don't. We're worried about him but we're worried about his classmates as well.

And this virus in our area is like it's an oncoming train. Why aren't we getting our kids out of the way of this oncoming train? That's how I feel.

BERMAN: And do you feel as if your concerns are being heard, at least within Duval?

M. HARTLEY: Again, we felt -- some of us, I'll say -- I can't speak for all parents. Some of us felt victorious Tuesday night with this policy that, again, there would be much more masking in schools than there would have been otherwise. But the proof will be in the policy. And so we're waiting to see if the school district will actually strongly enforce masks with the -- with the opt-out available.

BERMAN: And Lila, you've been vaccinated. How glad are you that you were vaccinated?

L. HARTLEY: I'm really glad, especially before school starts. And so, I'm like I can still get sick but I can have that protection.

[07:45:03]

BERMAN: An important layer of protection for all of us.

Lila, Matt Hartley, thank you both so much for being with us this morning.

M. HARTLEY: Thank you, John.

L. HARTLEY: Thank you.

KEILAR: Alcohol, drugs, divorce, and car accidents. What does that have to do with the attack on the Capitol? Hear the bizarre defense from a Republican congressman, Mo Brooks, in response to a lawsuit seeking to hold him accountable for the January sixth insurrection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: China is now facing its worst coronavirus outbreak in months. The city of Wuhan, the original epicenter of the pandemic, is testing its entire population as the highly transmissible Delta variant spreads across China.

[07:50:00]

This morning, we have exclusive CNN reporting on the effort by U.S. Intel agencies to uncover the origins of COVID-19.

CNN's Katie Bo Williams is with us on this. This has been very difficult. It obviously is something that requires China's involvement. What are they looking for here?

KATIE BO WILLIAMS, CNN REPORTER: Yes. So what the intelligence agencies -- what the intelligence agencies are doing right now is digging through this big raft of genetic data that's been drawn from virus samples that this lab in China was working on -- the lab that some officials believe may have been the source of the pandemic.

Now, specifically what they're hoping to find are clues that will help them figure out whether or not the virus leaked originally from the lab in some way, or whether it developed naturally out in the wild, as many scientists believe.

Like, sort of, specifically the nitty-gritty, they're hoping they're going to find a blueprint -- a genetic blueprint from a virus sample that is similar enough to our SARS CoV-2 that it will help them kind of piece together the evolutionary history of how this virus came into existence the way that we know it now.

But this is a lot of data so it's a little bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. And several scientists that we spoke to said look, it's possible -- not just possible, but we believe we already know all of the viruses that the WIV was working on. So for some scientists, the chances that they're going to find kind of the key that unlocks the mystery here is small. But, that said, almost to a person, every source that we spoke to says

look, if there's an answer to be found to this question of natural origin escaped from a lab, it's going to come from traditional scientific inquiry like this rather than sort of traditional intelligence work.

KEILAR: Is that why it's taking so long because it is so much to pour through -- a needle in a haystack?

WILLIAMS: Yes. So there's two big challenges that the I.C. has in sort of trying to sift through this data.

One of them is processing power. This is so much data that they need really, really big computers to be able to process it. So that's where what's called national labs -- these sort of 17 elite research government-run research institutions under the Department of Energy come in. They've got the big computers. They'll kind of push all that data through.

But the other issue is you really need specialists to interpret it. Not only do you need scientists that have security clearance, you need scientists that have the sort of specific expertise to be able to interpret this data, and they have to speak Mandarin. And not only do they have to speak Mandarin, they have to speak technical sciency Mandarin, which has a very specialized vocabulary.

So there's a few, sort of, reasons that this is taking a while.

KEILAR: That Venn diagram was getting very tight, then you threw in technical Mandarin and it kind of squeezed out, I'm sure, a lot of people.

Thank you so much, Katie Bo Williams, for telling us where we're at on this really important story.

WILLIAMS: Thanks so much, Brianna.

KEILAR: Coming up, a tragic story of life and death and the risks of not being vaccinated. A Virginia man detailing his sudden and rapid battle with coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS CAMPBELL, COVID-19 PATIENT: If you want to ahead and not get a vaccination make sure you got a good doctor and your affairs in order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:56:55]

KEILAR: Republican Congressman Mo Brooks arguing that he is immune from prosecution in a civil lawsuit over his role in the rally before the Capitol attack. In a court filing yesterday, Brooks said he thought he was acting as a

member of Congress when he spoke at the Ellipse rally for Trump on January sixth because it was about the congressional vote to certify the presidency. We should note his defense has been rejected by the Department of Justice.

And here is a quick reminder of what Brooks said that day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to bring in Phil Andonian. He is the attorney for Congressman Eric Swalwell, who has sued Brooks, Rudy Giuliani, and Donald Trump, Jr., as well as former president Donald Trump.

OK, we've talked at various steps in this process and you were last here arguing that he doesn't have immunity. The DOJ agreed with that. He's still saying he has immunity. What do you make of that?

PHIL ANDONIAN, ATTORNEY FOR REP. ERIC SWALWELL: I don't really know what to make of it. It's beyond it.

So, the DOJ and the House Administration Committee both concluded properly that he was acting outside the scope of his employment as a congressman because he was engaged in political activity. And notably, the reason they concluded that is because Brooks, himself, said that in an affidavit he filed in support of his petition.

So there's no dispute that political activity is outside the scope of a member's employment. And so, with Brooks' admission, as far as we're concerned it's an open and shut case, and that's exactly what DOJ concluded.

KEILAR: All right, so why is he doing this, then?

ANDONIAN: Well, I don't know. I --

KEILAR: To delay things? I mean, what do you think?

ANDONIAN: You know, to be totally candid, I think this is a pretty good example of why you should hire a lawyer when you're in legal trouble. Because even though Brooks is a lawyer, he's emotionally involved in this case. He clearly is not understanding the implications of what he is saying. And I just don't think he gets it. He doesn't --

In his filings yesterday, he did nothing to rebut anything he, himself, said in the earlier filing in which he specifically states that he's talking about the 2022 -- the 2024 election. He is there at Donald Trump's request.

And instead, throws a whole bunch of nonsense up about allegations that we are making in our complaint, which at this stage are accepted as true, and another conclusion that the DOJ drew. And it's just simply boggling what he might be getting at.

KEILAR: He's pro se -- he's representing himself, just to -- just to follow --

ANDONIAN: Yes.

KEILAR: -- up on the point that you're --

ANDONIAN: Right.

KEILAR: -- saying there.

He also started out his argument here -- his motion in a kind of bizarre way, saying that he hasn't -- you know, he hasn't been a drinker, he doesn't -- hasn't done drugs or smoked tobacco. He's never sped. He's never cheated on his wife.

What does that have to do -- what does that have to do with this?

ANDONIAN: But my favorite was he's never been in a car wreck that somebody accused him of being at fault at, which then begs the question like how many non-fault accidents has he been in, and why are you including this in a pleading.

I don't -- I don't really.