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Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson Says He Regrets Signing Law Banning Mask Mandates as COVID Cases Surge; Man Chronicles Progress of Illness with COVID-19 and Urges Viewers to Get Vaccinated; Interview with Former Surgeon General Antonia Novello on Measures to Increase Vaccination in U.S. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 05, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

PHIL ANDONIAN, ATTORNEY FOR REP. ERIC SWALWELL: Which then begs the question, how many non-fault accidents has he been in, and why are you including this in it, pleading. I don't really understand, other than, in all seriousness, to so that what he's doing is really -- would be really disingenuous given that he's a tough on crime former prosecutor who, as far as I can tell, probably doesn't have a lot of sympathy for people who are accused of wrongdoing. And here he is essentially mitigating his wrongdoing by laying at the feet of the court all of the good things that he calls verified Burks (ph) facts. But beyond that, it's obviously totally irrelevant. And again, his filings yesterday just completely missed the point that his own admissions of political campaign activity are at the core of the DOJ's decision, and we certainly hope the judge is going to uphold the DOJ's findings.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Another bizarre twist in this sort of legal timeline that we're seeing here. Phil, thank you. Phil Andonian, appreciate you being here this morning.

ANDONIAN: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: And NEW DAY continues right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. It is Thursday, August 5th. And this is where we are this morning. Nearly 59,000 people are hospitalized with COVID. Those are numbers we haven't seen in almost six months. ICU beds are running out in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arkansas. Cases rising sharply among children. Now Asa Hutchinson, the governor of Arkansas, says he regrets signing a law banning mask mandates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON, (R) ARKANSAS: Our cases were at a low point. Everything has changed now. And, yes, in hindsight, I wish that had not become law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: He signed it. This morning, the Biden administration is considering a vaccination requirement for most international passengers traveling to the United States. There is also a debate this morning after the World Health Organization declared there should be no booster shots for Americans, third vaccine shots, before the rest of the world gets its share of vaccines. And Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is set to announce a vaccine requirement for all active duty military this week.

KEILAR: This morning, we want to share a Virginia man's story of battling COVID. His decision to post videos documenting his COVID-19 treatment has slowly turned into a tragic confessional. Travis Campbell could die because he avoided the vaccine, and he says he truly regrets not getting the shot. He also blames himself for infecting his children who are experiencing a rattling cough, dizziness, diarrhea, and dehydration. Travis chronicled his battle in a series of Facebook videos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS CAMPBELL, COVID PATIENT, REGRETS NOT GETTING THE VACCINE: The cough is ungodly. It's just bearable. It just makes you think you're going to just pass out, lose conscious. You're so dizzy, lightheaded and confused.

(COUGHING)

CAMPBELL: I'd ask for prayers, but I'm kind of weird. I believe that the path is already set.

Couldn't make it to the hospital. They've admitted me. It's real. It's kind of a confusion like, just you're in a fog.

I have a little bit of energy. I'm breathing. It's gotten tougher. Make sure you're going to go ahead and not get a vaccination, make sure you got a good doctor, and your affairs in order.

I have blood clots and coagulating crystal particles that have grown, and I have a portion of a collapsed lung.

[08:05:00]

It's hard to find strength when you have so much stacked against you. But I've been listening to Alan Jackson's "Precious Moments" album. It's always been one of my favorites. So tonight and tomorrow when you get a chance, if you listen to that album and see if it gives you the same peace it gives me.

Last night my wife and I made the decision if I were going to allow them to put me on a ventilator, worst case scenario. And I don't want to be on one, but I want to live.

Made it through the night. It was a long one. Last night I came to the realization that the chances of me not being able to give my daughter away at her wedding is greater than walking out. I had to make a phone call to my 14-year-old son, and I had to tell him what I thought. My dream was giving my daughter away at the altar, and I had to ask for his permission if I didn't come home, if he would give my daughter away on her day.

I messed up big time, guys. I didn't get the vaccine. And that's OK. I made a mistake. I admit it. And I'm taking my responsibilities now. But please, for the love of God, if you really want to have a chance, don't follow mine, follow the T.V. logic and social medias. Just protect yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: It is, it is so hard to watch that. And, of course, our hope is that Travis pulls through, but he's facing this reality, Berman, that he won't. And we've heard doctor after doctor say if people could just come inside these walls, and if they could see what is happening, it would change their minds, and that's really what Travis Campbell is showing people.

BERMAN: That was devastating. That was just devastating. Imagine calling your 14-year-old son to tell him that he may have to give his sister away at her wedding one day because Travis, the father, doesn't think he's going to make it. We certainly hope he does, and we appreciate the message he is sending. But I've got to say, the more we hear from people inside the hospital who were not vaccinated suffering COVID, the more we hear these pleas, I hope it just sinks in.

KEILAR: Yes. He said, he wrote on Facebook, "Life is just the big picture." Yes, it is.

BERMAN: So we expect a briefing later this morning from the White House coronavirus response team as President Biden takes sharper aim at Republican governors who are resisting mask requirements. This week every living surgeon general attended a meeting with administration officials to offer their advice on the pandemic.

Joining us now is Dr. Antonia Novello. She served as U.S. Surgeon General During the George H. W. Bush administration, and she was an attendee at this meeting yesterday. Dr. Novello, I want to talk about the meeting, but first, to hear from Travis Campbell in the hospital battling COVID, life and death on the edge right now, it tears me up. It just tears me up. I don't see patients. You see patients all the time. But what's your reaction to hearing that?

DR. ANTONIA NOVELLO, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL, BUSH 41 ADMINISTRATION: It's really devastating, and it's even sadder that it comes so late because they could also ask for the vaccine to take away all the symptomatology, it would be a miracle. But I find it is really sad and real, the necessity to put these kinds of messages for people to hear because there's so much misinformation in all the other places that we have to really counteract with transparency and real information and real pain. So thank you for doing that.

[08:10:09]

BERMAN: Look, it's a real tragedy. The message has to be coming from people for whom it might be too late. Let's hope it's not too late for Travis, but like I said, devastating.

So tell me about this meeting with all the living surgeons general. What came of it?

NOVELLO: Well, the surgeon generals have gotten together not only for yesterday. We have gotten together whenever there is a public policy need to be addressed, because we are a representation of all that is the ethnic and racial groups in the United States, and we basically have served from the most conservative to the most liberal presidency.

However, when it comes to messages for the country, we get together and we only address the science. So yesterday I have a feeling that the White House wanted to know exactly how can we address these issue of hesitancy in the vaccination in the minority communities and what can we do about it.

So it was a very interesting meeting that was supposed to be one hour and linger for two in which the surviving seven surgeon generals were there. But the most important thing that came about this is really there is only one force of the vaccine issue in the country today happens to be minority of colors. And in the areas where the COVID is more rampant, in the Latino community, only one-third. So when looking into this, it is truly necessary to take the language and the culture of the people that you serve into any kinds of means to do this, whether it's by the work or by newspapers.

But regarding the absence of newspapers in some of our communities because everybody's technology can be savvy, we have to ask for more broadband and more help in our communities because there is the only way they are going to be able to take away that misinformation in what may be 12 people in Facebook might trigger 65 percent of the misinformation.

We also want to make sure that in research and in clinical care, we have all the things that are suffering with the disproportionate share of health care in our communities, and more than anything, we have to have the messages in the hospital at any level and in any language that people understand without being patronizing. And more than anything, assuring people that the community trusts to be able to get the message. And it has been found 34 percent of the places that vaccinate well are community health centers. So I would not doubt that more money will go to that one.

And somewhere along the way we need sometimes to get a little bit of more positiveness message to the health care workers who every day give their lives for us to be alive in this, and somewhere we give money to everybody else, but we don't put so much making sure that they get it.

BERMAN: I hope they hear the message -- I hope they hear the message that they're heroes. I mean, they are heroes. And I know they're exhausted and we have got to do more for them. One of the things we can all do is get vaccinated.

Now, I understand a lot of what you're talking about, the message that you delivered yesterday, you reached out during the Trump administration to Dr. Deborah Birx and others. What did you hear back then? NOVELLO: Well, I was very concerned about two things. If we really

want to get herd immunity at 70 percent, which was at that time and now seems to be close to 85, 90 percent because of the Delta variant, I was very concerned that if you didn't have a translation of Spanish immediately after this English version of the world knowing what was happening with the COVID, I felt a little bit disappointed. I never heard back.

And I also requested that we had a translation for the deaf and mute. I never heard about that. So in Puerto Rico I know we have 150,000 people that are deaf and 300 varieties of the sign language. They assume that they do not understand most of the times what is being said in the television. So there is another group that added, together with children, in Puerto Rico, 400,000 more people that need to be vaccinated. We will be able to get to the herd immunity we so much talk about it.

BERMAN: You never heard back? Listen, thank you for the work you're doing. We really appreciate it. Former Surgeon General Antonia Novello, thank you very much.

Mounting political and legal problems for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo in the wake of the sexual harassment report.

KEILAR: Plus, extraordinary new evidence showing the extent of former President Trump's attempt to overthrow the government. And we will speak to one election law expert who fears what happened last year with the big lie is only going to get worse.

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[08:18:05]

KEILAR: More evidence of former President Trump's efforts to enlist the Justice Department to overturn the 2020 election. CNN has learned a top DOJ official drafted a resignation letter over what he said were Trump's direct instructions to use the department to support his false election fraud claims. This as we're learning that a Trump loyalist at a DOJ circulated a draft letter in late December to top Georgia officials to urge them to evaluate supposed election irregularities.

Joining us now to talk about this, we have chief political correspondent Dana Bash and CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin with us.

You know, Dana, to you first. I think sometimes when people talk about each new development we are learning, these are all important developments, as people look at this they're kind of outrage muscle, justifiable outrage muscle can be pushed to failure.

BASH: Yeah.

KEILAR: This is one where it shouldn't. This is a big, big red blinking light.

BASH: That is such a good point, Brie. The notion of people watching this, oh, Donald Trump tried to overturn the election, tried to do whatever it took within the confines of government or outside the confines of what's right, but within his own administration, tell me something I don't know.

But it is so critically important, not just about learning what happened for history sake, but knowing what is going to happen in the near future. Just take, for example, the conversations that were happening in these new documents about Georgia. So, that was on the level -- on the federal level for DOJ but the reason DOJ -- the president wanted to get involved is because the state law in Georgia was such that there was nothing that the president's political allies could do there.

That law is changed now. It's different now, and the most critical difference is that Brad Raffensperger.

[08:20:01]

So, the people who said, I'm not going to do anything, the power in those posts has been stripped to a large extent. And so, that is one of the main reasons why these tales, these historical -- now historical moments are so critical for the future.

BERMAN: The part of it that continues to get me from this Jeffrey Clark letter reported by ABC News is the guy wrote it down. I mean, it's written down here where he's trying to get Georgia to overturn the election results there.

He writes a letter circulated within DOJ, saying that, you know, DOJ has identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states, including the state of Georgia. And he's recommending that Georgia state legislature actually toss the election. They didn't.

I mean, he's making stuff up there, Jeffrey. He's just making stuff up, and he's doing it in an effort to overturn the election. How close does that get to violating the law?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, this whole episode reminds me of June 1972, the famous smoking gun tape that led to Richard Nixon being forced from office, because what that tape showed was that Nixon used the FBI and the CIA to try to keep the Watergate cover up going. What you see here in what Trump was doing with the Department of Justice was exactly the same kind of abuse of power. It was using his power as the supervisor of the Department of Justice to try to stay in office through the use of corrupt falsehoods.

And, you know, that is -- that would have been an impeachable offense if he had stayed in -- if he had stayed in office.

The question is whether it is an actual crime I think is much harder. And my guess is the Department of Justice is going to stay away from it, which will be frustrating to a lot of Democrats.

KEILAR: Why won't Merrick Garland investigate it in your view, then? TOOBIN: Because I think it's hard to identify which federal statutes

were violated here. It's actually very similar to the president's infamous phone calling to the president of Ukraine where he was threatening the withholding of American aid to get political advantage and dirt on Joe Biden. That was an abuse of power. The president was impeached because of that.

But whether it was an actual criminal offense, I think this is a much harder call and it's also -- and I think that's a similar situation here. You know, good prosecutors are very reluctant to use their power. They only use criminal process when it is a clear, identifiable, criminal offense.

And Garland has been reluctant to do that so far. We'll see if it continues.

BERMAN: It's got to be fertile territory, Dana, for the House Select Committee who I'm sure wants to hear from just everyone anywhere near any of these letters.

BASH: No question about it. Because that is what they are doing, you know. Wouldn't it have been kind of fantastic for history sake for this to be done through a bipartisan outside independent commission, you know? It probably would have been, but that's not happening.

So, now, what you have is, as you mentioned, the House committee which is largely Democrats, two Republicans. We won't get into the drama around that, but they are looking into it. We know that.

We know that they're gathering this evidence. We know that they're talking to these, to these officials, former officials. By the way, same goes for the Democratic-led Senate. There are committees there who are looking into it.

So we will get more information, but whether or not it is going to result in widespread change like post 9/11, that is TBD, probably unlikely because of the nature of the way these investigations are going.

TOOBIN: Berman, remember one of the lessons of the Trump administration. They learned that they can stymie congressional oversight, even when they're wrong on the law. They simply refuse to testify. What does the Congress do? Well, they go to court and it takes months and months, even when they win.

So what I think we are looking at with the January 6 committee is a lot of defiance from former Trump officials. They'll go to court and the months will pass and the Congress operates on a schedule where they can't wait months for the, for the -- even if they lose. So, I think they'll be able to stymie that oversight as well.

BASH: That's true for people like Jeffrey Clark, but you also have people like Jeffrey Rosen, the one who was the acting attorney general, the acting deputy attorney general, the chief of staff who clearly, because they memorialize what was happening, never mind saying no, I'm not going to do this, but memorialize what was happening, who are probably going to want to get their side of the story out to show that this is what they were doing.

So, you know, maybe some of the more nefarious actors we see that have come out in some of these emails and documents, maybe it will be harder for Congress to get them to testify. But it looks like others will.

TOOBIN: Dana, my money is on the nefarious actors.

KEILAR: We now know, Jeffrey, looking back, bill bar resigned knowing this, yet he remained silent in the weeks after.

TOOBIN: Well, that's right. And Jeffrey Rosen wrote all this down and performed heroically, as far as I can tell. But whether he actually agrees to testify in public and face the wrath of MAGA is a separate question.

You know, one of the touchstones of the Republican -- of the Trump years has been Republican solidarity, including people who know better. I hope Dana's right that there are principled people in the Trump administration who will testify publicly, who will talk about this. But as I said, I just don't think there will be many of them, and I think this committee is likely to be extremely frustrated as the defiance begins.

KEILAR: All right. Dana, Jeffrey, thank you so much for the conversation. Obviously so much to play out here as we'll be all watching.

Milwaukee Bucks fans are paying a price for the NBA final. What we are learning about a COVID outbreak linked to those packed celebrations last month.

BERMAN: And the mayor of Boston, acting mayor of Boston, compares proving you're vaccinated to showing freedom papers during slavery. Really? That and the latest anti-vaccine nonsense reality check, coming up.

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