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Members of Justice Department Under Former President Trump May Be Questioned by House Select Committee about Former President Trump's Requests to Declare 2020 Election Fraudulent; My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell Profiled on His Allegations of Fraud in 2020 Presidential Election; Unvaccinated Man from ICU Bed: "I Messed Up". Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 06, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:00:24]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: More now on our special coverage on what can reasonably be called Donald Trump's attempted coup. Key members of the former president's Justice Department could face questioning by the House select committee investigating the insurrection. It comes as we are learning shocking details surrounding those final days inside the administration, including the Department of Justice.

Joining me now is Elie Honig, CNN senior legal analyst, former federal and state prosecutor. Elie, I want to look at the characters here who were involved tangentially and otherwise. Let's start with Bill Barr.

ELIE HONIG, SENIOR CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, John, lots of names, lots of potential witnesses, lots of drama inside the Justice Department. Bill Barr, of course, was Donald Trump's loyal attorney general for about two years, until December 1st of last year when Bill Barr had this shocking moment where he came out and publicly said, to date we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election. That was pretty much the end of the longstanding Trump-Barr relationship. Barr was gone a few weeks later.

In came Jeffrey Rosen who had been number two at the Justice Department. He moves up and becomes the acting attorney general, and Richard Donoghue becomes number two. Donald Trump wasted no time pressuring these two to try to get on board with his election fraud theme. He called them, and we know from Richard Donoghue's notes that what Donald Trump told them to do was "just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me, and the R," Republican, "Congressman." And as you just said with Ambassador Bolton, the Chief of Staff Mark Meadows got in on the act. He started emailing these two, giving them crazy theories about Italian satellites flipping votes. Donoghue commented internally, "pure insanity."

One other interesting thing in those emails of Mark Meadows. He started raising this name of this guy Jeffrey Clark. Get Jeffrey Clark involved. BERMAN: Jeffrey Clark, we just spoke with former Ambassador Bolton

about that as well. Jeffrey Clark was the acting assistant attorney general in the Civil Rights division. Where does he fit in this, and how much pull did he have?

HONIG: So Bolton was correct that Jeffrey Clark falls below Rosen and Donoghue in the DOJ pecking order. However, Clark was trying to run the coup from inside DOJ. It turned out Clark was communicating directly with Trump unknown to the superiors at DOJ, tried to get them to send this crazy letter to Georgia which they refused to do.

But here's where I really disagree with Bolton. Jeffrey Clark tried to take over. We heard people talk publicly now about this, meaning it happened at the White House, which people have said was like the game show "The Apprentice," but it was deadly serious where they were both making their case for A.G. Jeffrey Clark's pitch to Donald Trump was choose me and I have your back on election fraud. Rosen's pitch was, choose him, and I'm quitting, and Donoghue's quitting, and it's going to be a mess for you. Donald Trump ultimately backed off. But it was that close to Jeffrey Clark becoming attorney general.

BERMAN: It was not for lack of trying.

HONIG: Right, absolutely.

BERMAN: All right, where does the current attorney general stand in this drama?

HONIG: Merrick Garland has got some real work to do. I think he has got three major tasks. First, he has to reestablish DOJ's independence. He's done a good job. About six weeks ago he issued new rules about keeping DOJ separate from communications with the White House. Importantly, cooperation with Congress, we have got subpoenas coming soon. Garland has already said he's not going to block DOJ employees from testifying. That should clear the way, or at least remove one of the obstacles to people like Rosen, Donoghue, maybe Barr, Jeffrey Clark testifying.

And finally, there is the question about were there crimes there? I think people can fairly disagree. I believe at a minimum there were various at least potential federal crimes, and I think Merrick Garland has an obligation at least to open a serious investigation and take a look here.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

HONIG: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: As we learn more about Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, we are hearing from one of his biggest supporters and one of the biggest promoters of the big lie. My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell, pushing his latest election conspiracy theory, and it is the most bizarre yet. CNN's Drew Griffon sat down with Lindell, pushing back on his claims that threaten democracy, his proof of nothing, and showing him what CNN uncovered in our own investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The My Pillow guy.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mike Lindell, yes, the My Pillow guy is convinced China hacked the election, Donald Trump really won, and Lindell has the absolute proof.

MIKE LINDELL, CEO, MY PILLOW: They did it in all the states.

GRIFFIN: And they changed the votes?

LINDELL: Every single state.

GRIFFIN: And you have the proof?

LINDELL: Yes.

GRIFFIN: That will show the actual exchange of votes?

LINDELL: Yep, yes, 100 percent. One-hundred percent.

GRIFFIN: It is, of course, complete nonsense. Despite every piece of so-called evidence Lindell has presented so far -- three videos, a lawsuit, screenshots he sent to CNN, there's still no proof that the election was hacked, and that's according to two dozen cyber experts and election officials contacted by CNN.

[08:05:13]

LINDELL: A hundred percent evidence.

GRIFFIN: When Lindell released his so-called evidence, in videos like this, fact checkers quickly found out it was evidence of nothing. These images are just publicly available voter data, scrolling across the screen, not proof of election hacking. So Lindell changed his story, saying now the real evidence will be revealed at a cyber symposium streamed live with My Pillow discounts available throughout. And as further proof, he sent CNN a preview, six different screenshots.

You sent us this on Friday.

LINDELL: Yes.

GRIFFIN: What is this?

LINDELL: That's just one piece of 1.2 billion lines of data from the election, OK. Within that will be timestamps of when it happened. There will be flips in there.

GRIFFIN: So, we sent this to our own experts. He said that it doesn't show any specific actions of any kind, election related or not, and it's proof of nothing.

LINDELL: OK, so he said that's nothing, huh? Well, he's wrong. Then you didn't hire a cyber expert.

GRIFFIN: We didn't consult just one cyber expert. We consulted nine top election security experts who told us Lindell's screenshots were extremely rudimentary metadata, and completely ridiculous.

We also reached all 15 officials from the 15 counties where Lindell says, without any proof, votes were hacked and switched. Lindell mentions some of the counties in his videos and lists them out in his counter lawsuit against Dominion voting. They are counties that use paper ballots counted by systems not connected to the Internet. Every one of them told CNN there is no evidence they were hacked by anyone.

You identified 15 counties where the votes were switched. We contacted all 15 counties, red and blue, red and blue.

LINDELL: That doesn't matter.

GRIFFIN: And we couldn't find a single person that said this is even possible. They say you are mistaken. They think you're wrong. The bottom line is they have paper ballot backups that prove they were not --

LINDELL: So you guys went and they let you audit there, they let you do a full audit, CNN, you guys did a full audit on 15 counties, huh?

GRIFFIN: We did what Lindell did not do. We went to Delta County, Michigan, to see how the election was carried out. Trump won here nearly two to one.

LINDELL: The state Michigan, entry point, or Delta County --

GRIFFIN: In his videos and his lawsuit, Lindell claims someone in China hacked the election system here and stole away precisely 3,215 Trump votes and turned them into Biden votes. The Republican county clerk Nancy Przewrocki finds it infallible for one main reason.

NANCY PRZEWROCKI, CLERK, DELTA COUNTY, MICHIGAN: It is never connected to the Internet.

GRIFFIN: Never?

PRZEWROCKI: Never connected to the Internet at all, whatsoever.

GRIFFIN: Not only are they not connected to the Internet, the votes are cast by hand on paper. Voters scan their ballots into this Dominion storage machine where two digital storage cards keep a tally. The paper goes right into this bin under lock and seal.

PRZEWROCKI: And that container is sealed.

GRIFFIN: And just to check that everything went OK, they conduct audits, comparing the paper ballots to the results on the computer. And in 2020 it was an exact match. PRZEWROCKI: We audited three different pre precincts and they matched

exactly.

GRIFFIN: What would you say to somebody who made a documentary that, among many counties, accused your county of being a victim of a Chinese hack that changed the vote counts?

PRZEWROCKI: I would say that didn't happen in Delta County.

GRIFFIN: A Republican-led Michigan State Senate investigation found out it didn't happen anywhere, no evidence of widespread or systematic fraud.

I don't think you really understand how votes are cast, collected, and tabulated in this country.

LINDELL: You know what? I do. But what you don't understand is they can get -- after they're tabulated, they can get hacked after the fact, which they were, because Donald Trump is going to win anyway.

GRIFFIN: But the paper ballots which were cast --

LINDELL: Donald Trump was going to win anyway.

GRIFFIN: But the paper ballots which were cast --

LINDELL: You didn't do an audit to match them up.

GRIFFIN: -- were audited against the machine count.

LINDELL: No, they weren't. No, they weren't.

GRIFFIN: In these counties they were, Mike.

LINDELL: No, they weren't. No, they weren't. Who told you that?

GRIFFIN: The county officials who did that.

LINDELL: Oh, did they tell you that? They're going to have some answering to do.

GRIFFIN: No matter who says there was no widespread fraud in the election, whether it's local election officials, secretaries of state, judges, or even Donald Trump's own attorney general, Mike Lindell's conclusion is the same -- they are all wrong.

All these county officials are lying?

LINDELL: I don't know. They might be misconstrued. We'll see. Misconstrued because they don't realize what happened.

[08:10:00]

GRIFFIN: Lindell says his information comes from multiple sources, all of them supersecret. He claims he spent millions on the project, and also claims he will give $5 million to anyone who proves him wrong.

Mike, you can make up anything.

LINDELL: No, you can't. No, this is right. No, this is right.

GRIFFIN: You are just going to have a demonstration in a room --

LINDELL: No, no, no, this is where you're wrong. We're giving it to the cyber people that show up. We're going to give them each state. Here's a state, Georgia. They can take it apart.

GRIFFIN: You could possibly be the victim of a scam here.

LINDELL: Then why don't you come to the symposium and make $5 million. Are you worried about me? We should give a hug. You worried about old Mike? God bless you.

GRIFFIN: Here's what we're worried about. We're worried that what you are doing is mistakenly or deliberately destroying the confidence in the legitimate elected president of the United States and fostering what could be real damage to this country.

LINDELL: I never said that about Biden or the Democrats ever. Never.

GRIFFIN: You went through this investigation and this --

LINDELL: No, I am not. You're lying now. You're lying. I said the Democrats warned us. No, you're lying. I said the Democrats already warned us of this.

GRIFFIN: You're saying Joseph Biden was illegitimately elected.

LINDELL: I'm saying that China did an attack on our country --

GRIFFIN: And that the wrong person won.

LINDELL: That's right.

GRIFFIN: The people who have watched your video believe what you say.

LINDELL: A hundred percent.

GRIFFIN: If you're wrong. Isn't that very dangerous?

LINDELL: Yes, but I'm not wrong. I've checked it out. I've spent millions. You need to trust me and come there.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BERMAN: Holy cow. All right, Drew Griffin joins us now. Sorry, Drew. I have to get over my temporary shock at seeing all that. Where on earth is Lindell getting this, I guess I'm going to put it in air quotes here, "information"?

GRIFFIN: Of course, he won't tell us. It's all wrapped in his secret squirrel-type sci-fi version of what took place. But we have every reason to believe that this is nothing more than old, recycled conspiracy theories from people who, quite frankly, have ripped off people like Mike Lindell in the past. Sheriff Arpaio famously was connected to one of these type of metadata scans. We write about this in our digital.

But it does appear that Mike Lindell, although he's not saying where these sources come from, is getting his information from the same old type of people who have been pushing this before the election of 2020.

KEILAR: Right now it's like he's getting high on his own supply. It's so crazy. But he says that he's going to give $5 million to anyone who can prove him wrong. So are you going to share that with us, Drew?

GRIFFIN: Of course, he's not going to give that away. He's wording things in such a way that, you know, if you can't prove that this is data from the election -- I don't know what he actually has, if it's just people buying stuff on Amazon that he's collected. I don't know. But I think the $5 million pitch is just a gimmick to ring in the ears of the people who follow Mike Lindell and think, well, if he's willing to put up $5 million, it must be true.

The fact of the matter is none of this is true, Brianna. It is such utter garbage. What I cannot penetrate is whether or not Mike Lindell is getting scammed or might be part of it. I don't really know because I can't penetrate inside his brain to understand what he's talking about. When you have a conversation with this man, it's really difficult to understand what he understands. And I know he doesn't understand how votes are counted in the United States.

BERMAN: So you had a brilliantly written line in this piece, something to the effect that people who go to this symposium will be offered discounts at the My Pillow website. Really? He's selling pillows with all this?

GRIFFIN: Keep in mind that his business is being crushed. He's been kicked out of retail stores, been kicked out of places like Costco. These were big, big generators. So he's trying to find avenues to sell his pillows. So, on all these weird, low-level rightwing -- not even rightwing, I don't even know what they are -- conspiratorial podcasts, he makes appearances. And on each one, while he's touting his symposium, he is selling pillows and he is giving away discounts. And he says at this symposium, which he's going to stream live 24/7 from his own little operation, you will have the biggest My Pillow discounts ever.

So I think this is a combination of, number one, trying to perpetuate this lie about this election, and number two, this is really helping him, trying to either drive sales or save his company.

KEILAR: He is also at war with FOX right now, isn't he, Drew?

GRIFFIN: He's in a battle with FOX. Of course, FOX was sued for defamation from Dominion Voting Systems like he was..

[08:15:04] Fox settled. And Fox doesn't want to go down that rabbit hole again. I don't know if they paid a huge amount of money or not, but they got in real trouble. And they don't want to have that trouble again.

He is in a battle with them because Fox is not running his ads which tout the symposium and this craziness. And so, he is -- he is fighting what were his friends, you know, his Fox and his friends.

That's standard. He thinks Bill Barr -- he told me in the interview, he thinks Bill Barr was paid off. That's why Bill Barr said what he said about the election.

So anybody who disagrees with him is now the enemy.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I keep having to pinch myself and not laugh at this. Your tendency is to try to laugh at this, but it's profoundly unfunny and profoundly dangerous.

And, Drew, this was a terrific important report. I really appreciate the work you've done here.

GRIFFIN: Thanks.

BERMAN: So, coming up, hospitals overrun with patients as the delta variant races across the country. How the Biden administration is helping to put some financial pressure on places to boost vaccinations.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And he thought he was invincible, resisting the vaccine until it was too late. We will speak to a Virginia man in the hospital now who is urging others to get the shot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Take a look at the front page of "USA Today".

[08:20:01]

We are failing one another. That sums up the state of the pandemic in the United States.

This morning, 69 percent of the country is experiencing high transmission of virus as the delta variant rages. Hospitalizations continue to rise across the country, driven largely by Florida, now home to the most hospital patients in the country and any time in the pandemic.

There is hopeful news. Vaccinations are rising again with more than 850,000 doses administered yesterday alone. The Biden administration is now in preliminary talks about withholding funds in places, maybe nursing homes and other places, to leverage higher vaccination rates, especially in states where Republican governors are banning vaccine and mask requirements.

The FDA is also expected to lay out a national strategy for COVID booster shots in the coming weeks. KEILAR: And yesterday, we shared with you the story of Travis

Campbell who is a Virginia man hospitalized with COVID, and a lot of you responded to this story. Travis has been documenting his decline on Facebook and he's also confessing to the world his biggest regret, which is not getting vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS CAMPBELL, COVID PATIENT WHO REGRETS NOT GETTING THE VACCINE: I messed up big time guys. I didn't get the vaccine. That's OK I made a mistake. I admit it, and I'm taking the responsibility now. So, please for the love of God, if you really want to have a chance, don't fall for all the TV rhetoric and social media, just protect yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Travis and his wife Kellie are joining us now from Travis' hospital room.

Travis, thank you so much for sharing your story online.

We have been, you know, feeling for you, watching your videos. How are you doing? How are you feeling right now?

T. CAMPBELL: Today is the first day of a new day. I feel the prayers, I feel energy, and I feel alive, and I feel like I have another chance, and I hope that's the case.

I've never been more humble in my life for all the people across the world praying for me and respecting my mistake that I made. And I'm just so thankful and I pray that people will just really stop and evaluate what is the value of your decisions on your life. I can't remake it now.

Would your children want you to get vaccinated or would your wife or your mom want you to get vaccinated, so you -- their Christmas morning or your high school buddies that carried you five days for your wife or spouse or significant other. This delta variant is so fast and it's so aggressive and it attacks diabetes and arthritis ten times faster.

There's more people unvaccinated than they are vaccinated, and we -- we've got to have value of life. We got to be able to trust our doctors. I have the best doctor, thanks to Dr. McCormick, Zach Monroe (ph). And I have to trust him because when I come to the emergency room, they call him and he comes and he can make decisions and help me answer questions, but I can better inform myself or protect my family and my children.

And I'm so thankful for him. And if he wouldn't have done what he done, I would not be here today. The easiest thing is getting COVID. The hardest thing is finding a bed, finding oxygen, and trying to breathe like a fish in water.

BERMAN: Travis, we know how hard it is for you to talk to us this morning, so we're so grateful that you are willing to, and we're so happy that you're feeling at least a little better. That's the best news I've heard all day. Thank goodness that you feel at least a little better today.

And, Kellie, I want to ask you, as -- you know, how hard has it been for you to watch this? How hard has it been for you to see the emotional videos from your husband? And what have you learned about COVID through this?

KELLIE CAMPBELL, CONTRACTED COVID AFTER NOT GETTING VACCINATED: Well, I've learned a lot. The videos are tough.

Actually, one time, I told him to quit. My kids, my daughters (ph), my kids, we don't like attention. It was really tough.

Just to see his condition decrease so rapidly, friends (INAUDIBLE) that are passing away. It really hit home.

And we were lucky the first time around. We didn't have anybody too close get real sick. It wasn't close to us, but it hit home this time.

KEILAR: I think Travis is making it hit home for a lot of people. And, you know, one of the videos that stuck out for me, Travis, and I know it stuck out for a lot of people was -- I mean, look, you have several children and you have a 19-year-old daughter, and you had a message for your son about the possibility that he might be the one who has to walk her down the aisle when she does come to that point in her life. I want to play this video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

T. CAMPBELL: Last night I come to the realization that the chances of me not being able to give my daughter away at her wedding was greater than walking out. I had to make a phone call to my 14-year-old son, and I had to tell him what my dream was at giving my daughter away at the altar. And I had to ask for his permission if I didn't come home, if he would give my daughter away on her day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And, Travis, we actually -- we actually have your daughter with us. I know that you are -- I know you're crying right now watching that, that message that you gave to her.

Madison is joining us now.

And I hope this gives you, Travis, some comfort on this day where you are trying so hard and feeling a little better.

Madison, what has it been like for you and hearing that message?

MADISON CAMPBELL, TRAVIS AND KELLIE'S DAUGHTER: It was heart wrenching. You never want to hear your dad talk about not being there for the big moments in your life. We've just had to be really optimistic lately and focus on the good, try to see the good in things.

KEILAR: And what do you want to say to your dad as he's fighting today and feeling a little better? M. CAMPBELL: I just want to let him know how proud I am of him. I

think him going on Facebook making those videos is making a difference and saving lives. I couldn't love him more.

KEILAR: Travis, she is very proud of you. What do you think?

T. CAMPBELL: Children, one of your greatest accomplishments in life, and I'm so blessed and thankful to be surrounded with my children. I pray that many other fathers, single moms and single dads, single grandparents will evaluate your situation and get vaccinated for others as well.

I love her so much. I'm so proud of her and I truly believe in the bottom of my heart, she's a greater person than I could ever be. And I love you, Madison Grace. I love you.

BERMAN: Madison?

M. CAMPBELL: Well, I love you, too. You mean the world to me.

BERMAN: Travis, I think you're showing the world the courage that you've given your entire family right now and the courage you have to speak out at this time where physically you may not be at your best, but we applaud you for delivering this message.

And we know you're going to keep on delivering it and we hope you'll get to do it with us here in person, you know, on your own two feet soon, my friend.

T. CAMPBELL: Thank you so much. If there's anything about this that touches your heart, you can go make a difference in your community, for humanity and give life after you leave your earthly shell, please consider being an organ donor and give a life.