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New Day

Schools Defy Florida and Texas Governors over Ban on Mask Mandates. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired August 10, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:05]

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: That's according to a D.C. judge who wondered why this disparity is happening during a plea hearing on Monday. Chief Judge Beryl Howell said, where we have Congress appropriating all of this money due directly to the events of January 6, I have found the damage amount of less than $1.5 million when all of us American taxpayers are about to foot the bill for close to half a billion, a little surprising.

She added that she is accustomed to the government being fairly aggressive when seeking restitution. The defendant at that hearing pleaded guilty and agreed to pay $500 in restitution. That has become typical for defendants pleading to misdemeanors. The few rioters who have pleaded guilty to felony charges have agreed to pay $2,000 each. And just to put this in perspective, last month, Congress passed a nearly $2 billion Capitol Hill security spending bill.

That wasn't the first time Judge Howell spoke about the Justice Department's strategy when dealing with Capitol rioters. Last month, she questioned whether the misdemeanor plea deals were enough to deter any similar attacks in the future. Prosecutors said they will explain why they have limited restitution to $1.5 million before October.

So far, 34 people have pleaded guilty to charges stemming from the Capitol riot. The Justice Department has charged more than 560 people in the attack, that's according to CNN's latest tally, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Wow. When you think about it like that, that you as a taxpayer are actually paying for it, it's crazy. Whitney, thank you so much.

New Day continues now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: I'm John Berman literally alongside Brianna Keilar this morning on this New Day.

States versus schools, education leaders want the freedom to make health decisions for their schools. Some state governors doing everything they can to take that freedom away.

KEILAR: So, how soon until vaccines get full FDA approval? Some people say this is what's having them hold out here. Are booster shots around the corner this fall? Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to answer your questions about this new phase of the pandemic.

BERMAN: A Senate vote just hours away on Capitol Hill, setting up a key bipartisan victory for President Biden.

KEILAR: And an extraordinary showdown in Chicago, why dozens of police officers, they literally turned their back, right? We are not talking figuratively. They literally turned their back on the mayor, Lori Lightfoot.

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, it is Tuesday, August 10th.

And as the grown-ups play politics, coronavirus is attacking the youngest, most vulnerable among us like never before.

KEILAR: Nearly 94,000 children were infected with COVID last week. That's up 30 percent from the week before.

BERMAN: Close to 1,600 children are in the hospital, one quarter of them in Florida and Texas alone.

KEILAR: And it's no coincidence that those two states have governors who are pitting politics against public health. They are actually banning mask mandates in schools.

Some districts are defying them, though. Overnight the Austin School District passed a mask mandate following impassioned pleas from teachers like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE SWEET, TEACHER, AUSTIN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT (voice over): For many years, you've asked me to be brave, you've asked me to be brave as I practice getting 24 fourth graders into a bathroom. You've asked me to locate in our hiding spot anything with which I might fight off an active shooter. You've asked me to be brave as I think about what would happen if there is some sort of extreme danger and my class is on the playground. I've discussed how we would run into the woods, hide by creek, all of us together, avoiding danger.

You've asked me to be brave come back to work during a pandemic after surgery and six months of chemotherapy for stage 3 cancer and I have done it and will do it. And I will show up and I will get in my closet and I will look to the path to the woods.

Board members, you don't have to do these things. Just as I will be brave and think about how my body might shield children from danger, I ask you that you be brave today. You know what you need to do to protect children, do it, implement a district-wide mask mandate and vaccine requirements for students and staff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I got chills, honestly, listening to her say that. Several counties in Florida are also moving forward with mask mandates despite threats. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is threatening to withhold paychecks from school officials who enact mask mandates.

Joining us now is Gary Fineout. He's a reporter at Politico. He has covered Florida politics and government for the past two decades. Gary, thank you so much for being with us.

Just tell us what is the showdown like in Florida between some of these school districts and the governor?

GARY FINEOUT, REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, what we have is we have a couple of school districts who have decided that they will impose mask mandates and that the only way that they will let people get around them is if they have a note from a health care professional.

[07:05:00]

We have other districts that have gone along with the governor's plan to create an opt out, but we do have at least two districts and then we have some other districts that are still thinking about it because they haven't yet gone back to school.

And what happened is, yesterday, the administration said, well, we don't think getting a note from a health care professional fits the spirit of what we want, so, therefore, we will consider taking part of your salary if you go ahead with it.

BERMAN: Who blinks? Who backs down here, Gary?

FINEOUT: Yes, and that's the big question, is what's going to happen here.

Now, I think it's important to note that like, for instance, one of these counties, Alachua County, which is Gainesville, the home of University of Florida, it's only in place for the first two weeks and then they are going to revisit it. So the question is, well, what happens if the cases begin to tail off, if the situation begins to get better over the next few weeks, which is what Governor DeSantis has said it's going to do. And so are you going to continue to go through this sort of, you know, elaborate political and possibly court battle over who is right and who has the power.

KEILAR: What is governor -- what is the motive here? What does he gain by overriding local communities?

FINEOUT: Well, what he gains is basically that he is going to be the defender of freedom, as he puts it, freedom over Fauci-ism is one of his catch lines that he's been using when doing campaign appearances over the last few weeks. And so, essentially, as he positions himself as a potential contender for the 2024 presidential election, he's clearly put himself in a position that he's like -- he's not going to go along with any mandates.

And I would like to emphasize that last year, when we had the COVID wave, he basically said that he would not enact any kind of mandate statewide for businesses and things of that nature. So this is a consistent position with him where he has been steadily opposed to a mask mandate. BERMAN: Have you ever seen, Gary -- Florida man, Gary Fineout, as I'd like to call you, you've been covering the state for years and have seen a lot of fights. Have you ever seen the tension at this level?

FINEOUT: No, not really. I mean, I think -- I think this is a sort of a new day for everything that's going on. I mean, basically, what we've had over the last year, year and a half, is as the pandemic has come on, you've seen the governor exercise more and more power. And, basically, other leaders, legislative leaders and what have allowed that to happen because, of course, we were in the middle of a pandemic and there was a state of emergency.

So, now, the state of emergency has since been dropped but yet we still have this conflict where the governor is saying this is what I want and what I expect you all to do. And I think there is, of course, a lot of open questions as to the legality of what the governor is trying to do and we'll see whether or not courts will go along with whether or not he can actually order the districts to do this.

KEILAR: Yes, that is the outstanding thing here that we will be keeping our eye on. Gary, great to see you. Gary Fineout, thank you so much.

There are several parents in Florida who are now suing Governor DeSantis over the mask mandate ban in schools. They are arguing that children with disabilities who may be more at risk of experiencing serious symptoms of COVID are now being deprived of their rightful access to healthy and safe schools. They say that amounts to a violation of the Americans with Disability Act.

And joining us now is one of the parents suing Governor DeSantis, Judi Hayes, as well as her attorney and the litigation director of the Disability Independence Group, Matthew Dietz, with us now.

To you first, Judi, just tell us a little bit about your personal situation about your son and about your concerns is schools are not masked.

JUDI HAYES, SUING GOVERNOR DESANTIS OVER MASK MANDATE BAN: Thank you and good morning. I appreciate that. So, my son, Will, is ten and he has Down syndrome and he's always been included in a general education class in a public K through 8 school. He's been doing great with the educational supports that he has in place. But now, he can't attend in-person if kids aren't wearing masks.

And in our district they've made it as simple as just send in a note, just have your parent send in a note on the first day and you don't have to wear a mask. And if we don't have enough kids wearing masks, that effectively makes it unsafe for my child to go to school at all. And if he can't go to school in-person, he can't just pivot to digital learning, like most kids could, because he wouldn't have access to the educational supports.

So not having a mask mandate just completely deprives him of the opportunity to be educated along with his typical peers. KEILAR: So, Matthew, talk a little bit about the ADA issue, the legality of this. Obviously, Will has some underlying health conditions related to having Down syndrome.

MATTHEW DIETZ, LITIGATION DIRECTOR, DISABILITY INDEPENDENCE GROUP: Sure. Well, the ADA (INAUDIBLE) that any child has the ability to go to school or could go to any place like any other person, and they are entitled to have reasonable accommodations, including to be in a safe place.

[07:10:06]

When something is so reasonable as a mask, it's hard to have -- say that there's any counter-intervening governmental interest or anything else that (INAUDIBLE) that child from going to school. This is no different from a child with a peanut allergy going to a school and saying, you cannot bring peanuts in or else I'm going to get sick. Here, these specific children are going to be -- become very sick or die if they do get the COVID -- the COVID virus.

KEILAR: The governor, Judi, is saying this is about freedom, right? And he's putting -- he wants to put this in the hands of parents to choose, meaning parents who want to choose not to have their kids masked, and he wants to do that over even the advice of doctors when it comes to an opt out. I just wonder how do you feel, how does that make you feel about maybe sending Will to school?

HAYES: It terrifies me. You know, I've lived in Florida practically all of my life and I never envisioned that I would being this position that the governor would actively be trying to harm my child. Epidemiology doesn't work that way, it doesn't care about your freedom, it doesn't care about your feelings. I feel like this is yet another culture war that Governor DeSantis is lodging against the people of Florida.

Parents like me are terrified. School starts in an hour and a half and we have no options, we have no idea what we're supposed to do and it's almost as though he's actively trying to harm our children. He's definitely not doing anything to keep them safe.

KEILAR: School starts in 90 minutes there. Are you sending Will in today?

HAYES: I'm not sending will. It's not safe for him. I can't do that. I'm sending my older son who is 13 and is vaccinated and he will wear probably two masks all day long and he has a short schedule, and I feel like that's reasonably safe, like maybe he will be okay. I'm still going to worry about it all day long. I'm going to make him take a shower as soon as he walks in the door. But for Will, it's not on the table. It's absolutely unsafe and I can't, in good conscience, send him into an environment like that.

KEILAR: Judi, I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this and I'm sorry for Will. He's going to watch your 13-year-old head to school and I know that he probably would like to be going as well.

Judi Hayes, thank you so much, and, Matthew Dietz, I appreciate it.

HAYES: Thank you very much.

DIETZ: Thank you.

BERMAN: We talk about freedom and liberty, people toss around those terms in this debate, but it's all in the framing. Because there are governors now who are taking away the freedom of local school boards to make their own health decisions. These schools don't have the liberty to do what they think is right to battle this virus. And as Gary Fineout, who plays it right down the middle as a Florida reporter there, say that Ron DeSantis is using more power than any governor before in that state.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, DeSantis is siding with certain freedoms and some of that is the freedom from science, the freedom from health, the freedom from being a good neighbor, right, the freedom from responsibility to keep those around you safe. I mean, that's the freedom that a lot of people are embracing.

BERMAN: People choose to use this word and I think it can be used by everyone here.

Cases and hospitalizations hitting records in Louisiana, a state with one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. Joining me now is Dr. Leron Finger, Chief Quality Officer and Infectious Disease Specialist at Children's Hospital in New Orleans. Doctor, thank you so much for the work you're doing and thank you for being with us this morning.

What are you seeing in terms of children getting sick with COVID?

DR. LERON FINGER, CHIEF QUALITY OFFICER AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL NEW ORLEANS: Good morning. Thank you for having me. Over the last three weeks here at Children's Hospital in New Orleans, we've seen an unprecedented rise of cases of children who need to be admitted to the hospital to get care with COVID disease. This is unlike any previous time in the last 18 months during the pandemic.

BERMAN: Now --

FINGER: We have children -- we have children on the acute care floor in the regular hospital as well as children who need care in our intensive care units.

BERMAN: Children receiving all kinds of care, including intensive care. Now, kids younger than 12 can't get vaccinated. How many of your patients are teenagers who have been vaccinated?

FINGER: Thus far to date, we have taken care of zero teenagers who have been fully vaccinated.

BERMAN: Zero? Let me make sure I heard that right, zero teenagers who have been fully vaccinated? FINGER: That's correct. With COVID -- with COVID disease, we have had a couple of children come in with other illnesses like someone who might need their appendix out who incidentally we find them to be COVID positive because there's such widespread community spread of the disease right now in the state of Louisiana.

BERMAN: All right. So, you're seeing unprecedented rise in the number of kids coming in and being treated for COVID, needing hospital care.

[07:15:06]

One of the burning questions that parents around the country have is are the kids being infected with COVID, are they getting sicker than they were before? Is the delta variant making kids sicker than they were?

FINGER: You know, that's a question we don't have the answer yet, whether or not delta is more virulent or whether by shear math since we have more children getting infected in the community by consequence more of them will be -- need to be admitted to the hospital. So this is different than any of the other surges we have had in the past.

We don't know the answer to that. But what is clear is that it's resulting in more children who need to be cared for in hospitals than at any other time during the pandemic.

BERMAN: Dr. Leron Finger, again, we appreciate the work you're doing. We hope you get the help you need and we hope these numbers turn around really soon.

FINGER: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Just ahead, we're going to talk about the anger that many vaccinated Americans are feeling as so many others refuse to get the shot.

KEILAR: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us to answer some of our questions about the delta variant and vaccines.

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[07:20:00]

BERMAN: This morning, nearly every American is living in a county considered to have high or substantial COVID-19 transmission, according to the CDC data, as the delta variant races through every state.

Joining us now to answer some of your questions, CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, we have get a lot of questions about booster shots. People are very focused on this question issue. We've got one question from Lucille who asks, if a booster is recommended, should I stickwith Moderna or can I get the Pfizer if available.

I guess I want to broaden that out a little bit and just ask you for most people, for most Americans who have been vaccinated, how focused or concerned should they be about the booster issue?

DR. SANJAY GUTPA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so, overall, this issue is still being studied, but I think we're going to have some answers pretty quick here. So, to answer Lucille's question specifically, not only may it be okay to go ahead and get a shot from a different company, it may, in fact, be recommended. Why? Because what they're starting to find is that if you have shots from two different, you know, companies, you may actually get a stronger immune response. You're activating slightly different parts of the immune system, it might be better, being actively studied.

And when I say soon, I mean, this Friday, the CDC's advisers are going to be meeting to discuss this issue and they may be taking their cues from Israel, which, as you know, has already recommended boosters for those over the age of 60, and in Germany as well, they're also looking at the possibility as well as the U.K. for September, possibly recommending boosters for those who are immunocompromised.

That's probably what's going to happen. We will see. What we know the vaccines seem to offer very good long-term protection but there may be certain groups of people who would benefit from these boosters and even boosters from different manufacturers.

KEILAR: That's fascinating. Anna wants to know, Sanjay, how concerned should we be that an even more resistant mutation than the delta variant may arise?

GUPTA: We all have to be concerned about this. I mean, this is the world in which we're living right now. I'm hoping that doesn't happen. Obviously, we have to do a lot of forecasting and it's like almost like weather tracking around the world to see sort of what's cropping up and something starting to emerge.

This really raises two issues. One is the booster issue we just talked about. We do have to think about the rest of the world where these mutations may arise and then start to travel around the world. So, vaccination needs to be made available there as well and this is going to be part of the discussion on Friday.

Do we boost people in certain countries while other countries simply do not have enough vaccine for their first shots? That's going to be an important question.

One thing I think is really critically important, I think, sometimes gets commingled is variants arise because there is a lot of viral transmission. Vaccines help with that. What helps even more so, masks. If we could stop viral transmission or at least slow it down greatly vaccinated or unvaccinated, that's how we probably start to decrease the chance of these problematic mutations.

Think about this. We're being showered with virus, again, if you look at that weather analogy, you would put up your umbrella. You don't keep your umbrella up all the time but masks may be what we need to do from time to time when a viral shower is coming. We can't see it, we can't hear it, we can't taste it, we can't feel it, unlike other weather patterns. It doesn't mean it isn't there. Sometimes we are just going to have to mask up. That's going to be our best defense.

BERMAN: All right. This question comes from Francine, I believe. How long after testing positive for the delta variant -- or coronavirus and having mild symptoms can someone receive the vaccine?

GUPTA: So, this is a question we get quite a bit. First of all, there is no minimum amount of time. What you really want to be sure of is that you're not still having symptoms.

[07:25:01]

So, you get through your acute sort of symptoms if you did, in fact, get sick. If you were someone who is in isolation, then you want to wait ten days until after your first symptoms began or ten days until after that first positive test. That's sort of the basic rule. But there's really no minimum waiting time here.

I do want to point out because there is a question we've talked about on this program before, another study came out on Friday basically showing people who are vaccinated versus people who have immunity from being previously infected. What they found was that those that who were vaccinated had almost half the chance of becoming re-infected versus those are natural immunity.

So, that's been a question, I'm protected enough, I have had COVID. Fair enough, you do have immunity if you have had COVID in the past, the question has been, does the vaccine offer more? Several studies now saying the answer is yes. So, even if you have had COVID, still get that vaccine.

KEILAR: And twice as much. That is huge. Also here is a question from another viewer of ours, Joey, who -- this is exciting. He is attending college in-person this fall. He says I will be living with some people who are and are not vaccinated. I personally am vaccinated but I'm still concerned being on a campus which is in the mandating vaccines. The university is yet to announce whether or not they will at least be requiring masks. What risk do I have of infection and how can I keep myself safe?

GUPTA: This is a tough situation. I mean, so, Joey, you should feel comfortable that you're vaccinated. That's very protective. That's good news for you. But we will see what your university does. You know, wearing a mask, avoiding crowded indoor spaces, all the things that we've been talking about, are still going to be important. I would be curious whether there's going to be testing on the campus. And if you can get tested, will you be able to quarantine or isolate yourself depending on what the test shows.

So, you know, there's all these things, all these same discussions that we had last year. Joey is in a good position because he's vaccinated, he's maybe going to go home for the holidays. Are there people who are unvaccinated within his family because of certain conditions or age or whatever? So these are all the same sorts of things.

I'm hoping, as many universities have done, they're going to make it as safe as possible and masks, as I was just talking about before the previous question, go a long way and N95 or KN95 masks are going to be your best bet.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, look, it's important on college campus, but what about when Joey goes home for Thanksgiving, right? This is going to matter not just for young college students who are pretty healthy, you would think, it's really going to impact a lot of people around them.

Sanjay, thank you so much.

GUPTA: Yes. Thank you.

KEILAR: Just a short time from now, a big moment for the Biden presidency. We will be speaking live with Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on this showdown that's looming over the infrastructure deal.

BERMAN: And rising tensions in Chicago leading dozens of police officers to literally turn their back on Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

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