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Cuomo Resigns as Governor; Americans Lying to get 3rd Dose of Vaccine; Barkha Dutt is Interviewed about Vaccine Refusal; Feds Suspect Trump CFO Lied; Giuliani Joins Cameo. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired August 11, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:33:59]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is stepping down in two weeks, unable to overcome the fallout from the damming state attorney general report that detailed sexual harassment allegations involving nearly a dozen women. This morning, there are questions about Cuomo's future and the legal liability he may face once he leaves office.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator Errol Louis, he is the political anchor for Spectrum News, and criminal defense attorney Caroline Polisi.

Friends, thank you both for being with -- here today.

Errol, I just want to start with you here. Where are we this morning? How surprised were you that the governor left the way he did? And what happens now?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was a little surprised. And it only became clear about halfway through his 20-minute speech that, oh, he's leaving. We knew that he was going to put up a fight. We knew that he wanted to put up a fight.

He had a lot of time. Frankly, the assembly is moving toward impeachment at a pace where maybe a month from now they would have had to make a real hard choice and some real hard votes and I thought he was going to use every bit of that time because time seemed to be the strategy that he was using to try and delay things, hope for a reversal, rally the public to his side or otherwise get out of all of this.

[06:35:09]

He ran out of options and it became clear that he at least now accepted that he was out of options. His advisers had been walking away from him. Many had told him that this was -- it was over and it was time to call it quits. He finally acknowledged that. He's going to, I think, sort of play out over the next 14 days for every last advantage that he can get. I don't know how much good it's going to do him because he's still in a fair amount of hot water.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: I want to ask you about the legal ramifications here, but first I want to play something that the governor said about essentially times have changed and he didn't catch up to it.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): I've never crossed the line with anyone. But I didn't realize the extent to which the line has been redrawn. There are generational and cultural shifts that I just didn't fully appreciate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: To be clear, he's been accused of, in at least one case, grabbing the breast of one of his accusers. He denies that. It's important to note, obviously that is not -- has never been any -- on anybody but one side of a line.

I just wonder what you think about what he said and also how much of this has to do with perhaps his legal liabilities here?

CAROLINE POLISI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. So two allegations arguably laid out in the attorney general's report could constitute potentially criminal conduct, right? They fall under New York state statutes. That's going to be up to the individual district attorneys. We've already heard from several of them that they are investigating, you know, the most egregious allegations, which are -- that's Brittany Commisso, executive assistant number one, who alleged that the governor groped her breast.

But, really, the bulk of the allegations here are civil in nature, right? Title seven of the Civil Rights Act and, ironically, New York state sexual harassment laws, which Governor Cuomo actually signed into action. He was a very vociferous advocate for these sweeping reforms in legislation.

Brianna, he literally defined the line which he's now disingenuously claiming he doesn't know where it was. You know, it would be one thing if he were just, you know, an average guy on the street, but he wrote the rules. And in New York state he knows perfectly well what constitutes sexual harassment. And there are a multitude of allegations here from women that could constitute real liability.

BERMAN: This is not an overuse of the word "literal" in this case.

POLISI: That's right. That's right.

BERMAN: He literally signed the laws that changed this, that created the line. POLISI: He did. He had a big press conference. He advocated for -- he

actually lowered the line in terms of federally versus in New York state what could constitute employment discrimination and he said it no longer has to be severe and pervasive which arguably it was detailed in that complaint, but he actually lowered the line so that, he said, women could bring these claims more easily in New York state.

BERMAN: There's been a suggestion that once the governor leaves office, the criminal prosecutions and investigations are less likely to go forward, at least strenuously (ph). Is that something you agree with?

POLISI: So, prosecutorial discretion does play a part in any prosecutor bringing a case. However, you know, arguably these aren't the types of crimes, and they're really misdemeanors if I'm telling the truth, these aren't the types of situations that prosecutors go after.

That being said, they have an ethical obligation to pursue charges once the attorney general's report came out and really detailed those allegations. You're right that the fact that he's stepping down could play into a decision to go forward with that prosecution given that, you know, in terms of retribution, so to speak, yes.

KEILAR: Errol, former federal prosecutor, Preet Bharara, said, quote, I was a little taken aback that he said his resignation is effective in 14 days and it may be overly cynical on my part but I believe that Andrew Cuomo was a person of mischief.

What do you think of that? Do you agree?

LOUIS: I love that word "mischief" as used there.

Look, 14 days. Yes, there's plenty of time, and people should be very cognizant that documents can be destroyed, evidence can be covered up, personnel can be sort of hidden away, tucked away in agencies where maybe nobody will notice them. There's a lot that can happen that's not great over the next couple of weeks.

It's up to the state assembly to decide whether or not they're going to continue with impeachment proceedings. There's some legal question as to whether or not it even makes sense. Removal is not the only penalty for impeachment. And so they could, in theory, go forward, conduct an investigation, find out that it's time that they want to impeach ex-Governor Cuomo and then bar him from ever holding office again. There are also some issues about whether or not he would receive his pension if they decide to go down that road.

[06:40:00]

So, the contentiousness is still there and there are a number of legislatures I spoke to just in the last day who are saying, we must go forward with this. We need to define this standard. We need to find out all of what happened, not just with sexual harassment, but with some other issues that the assembly was looking at. And we need to hold him accountable. And that doesn't go away just because he's decided he's got a different timetable and wants to sort of make things OK for himself and for some of the people who are close to him.

KEILAR: Whether short term or long term, it's hard to imagine that we have seen the last of Andrew Cuomo.

Errol, thank you so much.

Caroline, really appreciate it.

Booster shots are not currently recommended by the FDA, but some Americans are taking matters into their own hands. They're lying to get one anyway. We have CNN's new reporting next.

BERMAN: Plus, Rudy Giuliani rolling out a creative new way to pay for his mounting legal fees. What he has to learn from Draco Malfoy.

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[06:45:14]

BERMAN: Just in to CNN, brand new reporting about Americans who are lying in order to get a vaccine booster shot rather than waiting for updated guidance from the administration.

CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard joins us now.

So, Jacqueline, what are people doing to get this third shot that the CDC, as of now, says they don't need?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Right. As of now, the CDC says they don't need it. But this Friday, CDC's advisory committee on immunization practices is meeting to discuss booster doses for immunocompromised people and older adults. So we might see that change soon depending on what happens later this week.

But what we're hearing, John, we spoke with one man who lives in New York but he told us that he received his first and second dose out of state in New Jersey. He was able to go into a local CVS in New York to get a third dose. He wasn't in CVS' system. He wasn't in New York's system. And he said he was able to do this.

Now, he said he didn't feel bad about it because there are many unvaccinated people in the U.S. who are choosing not to get the vaccine. There are many doses going unused. But public health officials say that those unvaccinated people are where we need to focus our attention on. One doctor, Dr. Paul Offit, he's on an advisory committee to the FDA, here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PAUL OFFIT, MEMBER, FDA VACCINES ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: This discussion of boosters is just off the point. The problem in this country is not boosting people who already have been vaccinated. The problem in this country is vaccinating people who haven't been vaccinated. That's where we need to focus our efforts. All our efforts, actually. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: So that's where the focus is now. But, again, John, this could change soon. And, of course, with sneaking in a third dose, there are some ethical and legal questions as well.

For one, when you get the vaccine, you have to sign that consent form. And if you lie on the consent form, that could be used against you.

Also, health systems and insurance companies use certain billing codes and supply chains for initial doses. It's assumed they'll use other systems or billing codes for boosters. So you could mess up things organizationally as well.

And then, number three, there is the ethics question. There are many people around the world who have yet to receive a first dose. So jumping in line for a third, there are questions there as well.

So this is an ongoing conversation, John.

BERMAN: Yes. If you're doing it now, you're lying. I mean, definitionally, if you're doing it now, you're doing it dishonestly. We'll see what happens in the next few days.

Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much for being with us.

HOWARD: Thank you.

KEILAR: Hesitancy among Americans to get vaccinated against COVID-19 despite widespread availability of the vaccine is causing growing frustration, particularly in countries who do not have the same access to these life-saving vaccines. In an opinion piece for "The Washington Post," titled, "As an Indian, I am enraged by American's refusal to set vaccine mandates," journalist Barkha Dutt gives voice to those frustrations and argues that if Americans won't get their shots, they should send their vaccines to countries whose citizens will.

And Barkha is joining us now to talk about this. She is a columnist at "The Post" and she also recently lost her father to coronavirus.

Barkha, I am so sorry for that. I understand that he had had one shot but he hadn't had another, which is especially common in other countries and in India.

BARKHA DUTT, COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": That's right. You know, even when I think of it today, my heart sort of sinks with that "what if" question.

My dad was scheduled to get his second jab in the week that he got infected and had to be hospitalized. And then, of course, he didn't make it out of the ICU.

And, you know, every day during my reporting of this pandemic, and I've pretty much traveled across my country, I meet with really, really poor people who stand in line for hours and are sometimes turned away from medical centers because there aren't enough vaccines to go around. Less than 10 percent of my country is fully vaccinated. And while that means millions of people, because we are a country of 1.3 billion people, it still means that the vast majority of Indians are yet to get vaccines.

Now, some of the fault is our governments. They didn't order enough on time. But, you know, when I sit in Delhi and I look at what's going on in the U.S., where, you know, hesitancy, if you'll forgive me, is a very polite, understated word to describe extreme self-indulgence and spoiled behavior, in my opinion, it just makes my blood boil.

KEILAR: You say it's white privilege and self-indulgence. Explain what you mean by that.

DUTT: Well, you know, even if you do a breakdown of vaccine distribution, in many western countries I think the data tells you that even in countries like the U.S., the United Kingdom and other countries of the European Union, there is a race and a class discrimination in the spread of the vaccine and the access to the vaccine.

[06:50:05]

And if you look at America, it is primarily the Republican states, it is primarily, you know, the white community that is standing up and saying, we don't want this. The conspiracy theories, the option to say no, the -- you know, the pushback against compulsory mandatory vaccines, isn't it all coming mostly from the white Republican sort of, you know, states of the U.S.? What should I call it but white privilege?

KEILAR: And that is what's driving it. I will tell you, white critics will say there's also hesitancy among black and Hispanic Americans. And it's true. But they account for a significantly smaller percentage of the U.S. population. So it really is a lot of white vaccine hesitancy that we're seeing driving these surges that we're currently seeing in the U.S.

You know, I wonder, Barkha, when you -- you're enraged by what you see in the U.S., people who can have vaccines and they aren't getting it and you tell stories of Indians who want it so badly and are suffering and losing loved ones because of it.

When you hear news like the major airlines that are not going to require vaccines with their employees, what do you think about that?

DUTT: I saw that today, that at least three major American airlines are not backing the decision by United to make vaccines mandatory for their staff. And, once again, you know, what it made me feel is that the U.S. currently has closed its borders to people like me. If I want to take a flight, (INAUDIBLE), I can't because apparently I'm a resident of a dangerous country which had the delta variant spread.

I'm mindful of the irony that you guys have the vaccines and you're still sort of discriminating against us, against international students from this country, against business travelers, against people whose families live there, close friends live there, and it's just so ironical that this is all being done in the name of personal liberty. I mean doesn't liberty end when you start causing active harm to the others around you?

And, in this case, the U.S., by opting not to mandate vaccines, in my opinion, is hurting not just its own people but it's hurting the global economy, it's hurting the entire idea of vaccine equity and it's hurting countries and country men and women like mine who want those vaccines and need those vaccines.

KEILAR: Barkha, it is a fascinating look, your column, about the U.S. from an outside perspective. And we appreciate you sharing it with us this morning.

Barkha Dutt, thank you.

DUTT: Thank you.

BERMAN: We have new CNN reporting this morning about indicted Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg. Federal prosecutors suspect Weisselberg lied in testimony during their investigation of former Trump fixer Michael Cohen three years ago and consider charging him with perjury. So what does that mean for Weisselberg now?

CNN's Kara Scannell joins us with all this reporting.

What's going on here?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Yes, John.

So multiple sources that my colleague, Erica Orden and I spoke with told us that federal prosecutors who were investigating Michael Cohen, you know, they had given Allen Weisselberg immunity for his testimony. And they came to suspect that he lied during that testimony.

Now, two of those sources tell us that part of -- that one of the skepticisms -- where their skepticism lied was they thought that Weisselberg gave them false testimony about how the Trump Organization reimbursed Michael Cohen. You know, they -- the Trump Organization had called it a legal expense. Federal prosecutors, in their charging documents of Cohen, had said they didn't believe that was the case.

Now, this is relevant now because the Manhattan District Attorney's Office has charged Allen Weisselberg and the Trump Organization and they have wanted his cooperation. They did want it and they still want it because their investigation is ongoing. So this kind of puts a wrinkle in this whole matter and investigation.

Now, ultimately, the federal prosecutors had considered charging Weisselberg with perjury. They also considered revoking his immunity, our sources told us, but ultimately they did nothing. And Weisselberg was not charged. The investigation had closed.

But Weisselberg's attorney had given us a statement. She said, Allen cooperated fully in the SDNY's extensive investigation. The SDNY charged Michael Cohen with campaign finance and tax violations and then closed its investigation more than two years ago. You know, but, again, this is relevant today because Weisselberg is

under indictment. He is someone that prosecutors want their cooperation from. And the DA's office investigation actually stemmed from that federal investigation of Michael Cohen. So the hush money payments are part of this investigation, too.

KEILAR: So, separately, and very separately I should say, Rudy Giuliani is on Cameo. For people who don't know what that is, it's where you can go on and pay someone, generally someone famous, to record a message for you. And it's worth noting he's facing huge legal bills, right, as he does this.

Tell us about this.

SCANNELL: Right. I mean so Rudy Giuliani joined Cameo. He's charging $275 for each of these spots that he could, you know, give someone (INAUDIBLE).

[06:55:01]

KEILAR: How long are those spots would you say?

SCANNELL: I mean I think they're anywhere from like one minute to two minutes. You know, Jerry Springer is also on Cameo. He's charging $134 an hour. So -- or an hour, a couple of minutes. So Giuliani's charging more.

I mean this does reflect kind of the financial straits that he's in, this dire situation. He's not getting help from the former president, his one-time client. He's facing election litigation. Of course this big criminal investigation by the federal prosecutors in New York. All of that can get very expensive.

And, you know, his friend, Bernie Kerik, had launched a fund to raise money for him. I was just looking at a "Vanity Fair" story. He hasn't raised that much money really at all. So no one -- none of the Trump allies are coming to his rescue.

BERMAN: You know, I was trying to figure out if $275 was a good rate for Giuliani. So I was trying to find like, you know, like to like comparisons, you know, apples to apples. So, The Night King from "Game of Thrones," $100.

KEILAR: Really? That's it.

BERMAN: Yes. So you can get like 2.75 Night Kings.

KEILAR: Oh, wow.

BERMAN: Like extinction level characters for one Rudy Giuliani. You know, so, like one extinction is worth, you know, two impeachments.

KEILAR: Is he wearing makeup when he does it? No. Oh. Oh.

BERMAN: I think you can probably request it.

KEILAR: All right, that's only --

BERMAN: Draco Malfoy is nearly $600. So, poor Rudy Giuliani, you know, long-time mayor of New York City, you can get for less than half of Draco Malfoy. Who, by the way, didn't kill Dumbledore. He only disarmed him.

So Giuliani, you know, comes at a bargain by those standards.

KEILAR: Dobby the elf gets what, do you think?

BERMAN: I -- you know, Dobby, I --

KEILAR: I would pay a grand for Dobby.

BERMAN: I mean I would pay a thousand (INAUDIBLE).

But Rudy Giuliani's getting half of Draco Malfoy. I think that's a statement on society.

KEILAR: Not even. Not even. Not even half.

BERMAN: Thank you very much for that.

KEILAR: Coming up, we're going to speak with the pastor of a Florida church. And this is a very impactful story that we're covering. They lost six, unvaccinated members to coronavirus in the course of two weeks.

BERMAN: Plus, prominent anti-vaxxers dying of COVID. Will others heed their lesson? That's next.

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