Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Hospitals on Brink: ICU Beds Running Out in Several States; FDA to Authorize Third Coronavirus Shot for Immunocompromised; Parents Harass, Threaten Health Officials Over Mask Mandates; Judge: Defamation Lawsuits Against Trump Allies Can Go Forward; Ex-U.S. Attorney Testifies Trump Wanted to Fire Him for Not Backing Lies. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired August 12, 2021 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the United States and around the world. I am Brianna Keilar with John Berman on this Thursday, August 12.
[05:59:28]
And hospitals across America are on the brink this morning as unvaccinated Americans fill them up at an alarming rate. That includes Mississippi, where there is a dire warning that hospitals there are potentially days away from failure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ALAN JONES, COVID-19 CLINICAL RESPONSE LEADER, UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI MEDICAL CENTER: The number of new positives that we're seeing, the rate of the testing positives, and then the rate of hospitalizations based on what we are seeing, if we continue that trajectory within the next five to seven to ten days, I think we're -- we're going to see failure of the hospital system in Mississippi. I mean, hospitals are full from Memphis to Gulfport, Natchez to Meridian. Everything's full.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Everything's full. That is just the reality right now. And the virus is spreading at a terrifying rate. The state is now requesting help from the federal government as they deal with a crush of coronavirus patients and a critical staffing shortage.
A field hospital is now being set up in a parking lot that could be used to take care of older teenagers with coronavirus. And in Texas, tents also going up outside of a Houston hospital to handle an overflow of coronavirus patients.
More children are hospitalized now in that state than ever before. Despite that, Governor Greg Abbott filed a petition yesterday to keep school officials in Dallas from protecting students by requiring masks.
BERMAN: Now, some Republican governors see things differently. In West Virginia, Governor Jim Justice is warning that if cases continue to climb -- and he thinks they will -- mask requirements in schools may be reinstituted.
Now, one question out there has been, given that more kids are getting sick, when will the vaccine be authorized for children younger than 12? The surgeon general says that could come by the end of the year. For some, well, that can't come soon enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENDAL JAFFE, ICU NURSE, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL NEW ORLEANS: Over the last year we hadn't seen as many kids get acute COVID lung disease as much as we're seeing now. The Delta variant is definitely hitting them a lot harder, a lot faster than we had seen in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a game changer.
JAFFE: It is. The kids are definitely sicker than they have been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right. Tom Foreman joins us now to give us a sense of exactly where these hospitals are having the most problems and what the situation looks like across the country -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, John, absolutely a crisis being driven by political leaders who won't grapple with the truth and people who, in turn, simply will not get vaccinated. That's the reason this is happening.
Look at ICU bed utilization by state. As reported by the hospitals here, Health and Human Services.
All of these in red down here, the dark red, they're over 90 percent. The lighter red, they're right behind them. That's how much had been used up in these areas.
COVID beds, look at this, every place that you see in dark red here is over 25 percent of the ICU beds being used are being used for COVID patients. Over 25 percent. So it could be 26 percent. It could be 80 percent. It could be 90 percent.
And look where it's really clustered, right down in here. Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, a lot of states that have had a lot of, a lot of loud, loud, loud talk from leaders, saying we're not going to let our freedoms be infringed. We're not going to engage in anything except saying to the people you can do what you want; and they are paying the terrible price right now.
And really important to compare on that, when you started off by talking the beds running out, look at the raw numbers here. If the statistics are too much, just look at -- the percentages are too much, just look at the raw numbers.
These are how many open ICU beds are being reported in these various states. Six hundred and sixty-eight beds in Florida, a state of roughly 22 million people. Three hundred and sixty-eight in Texas, a state of nearly 30 million people. And look, Mississippi, 0; Alabama, 112; Arkansas, 12; Louisiana, 206; Oklahoma, 79. That alone is a critically low number of beds.
And again, it is being driven entirely by people being unwilling to get the vaccine and, therefore, pushing this forward. That's why this really matters.
Because all these folks who are saying, I do not trust medicine to get a free shot that has been set aside for them and that can save their lives are then tumbling into this system, where they are basically pushing aside people who are there for traumatic brain injury, people who are there for lung disease, people who are there for heart disease, people who would normally fill up these ICUs. These are not designed to be big, empty spaces, John. These are designed to be busy spaces that are always operating closer to capacity; and now that capacity is being pushed to the limits.
These numbers are absolutely staggering, John, and then are being driven by people, again, who are saying, I don't trust the medical profession for this tiny little thing, but now I'm going to lean on the medical profession for a huge, costly thing, not only in money but in terms of resources, in terms of medical staff that are already worn out, and in terms of the lives of everybody else who would normally be able to use that ICU.
BERMAN: If the beds are filled with COVID patients, they can't be filled with other people.
FOREMAN: That's true.
BERMAN: And it has a ripple effect throughout the industry.
FOREMAN: That's true.
BERMAN: Brianna spoke to somebody yesterday waiting for cancer surgery who can't get it, because there aren't that enough people to perform that kind of surgery right now, with the hospitals filled with COVID patients.
FOREMAN: That's it.
BERMAN: Tom Foreman, than you very much.
FOREMAN: You're welcome.
KEILAR: We're also right now standing by for a significant announcement the FD -- FDA, which would authorize a third coronavirus shot, only though for some 9 million Americans who have compromised immune systems.
[06:05:11]
Jacqueline Howard is joining us now with the details.
This has been awaited. This will be very good news to people who worry that they have not been able to have the immunity from the two shots or the one shot that they took, Jacqueline. JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We've heard
from some people who are immunocompromised, and they said they are waiting for this.
So what we're expecting to happen, we expect to hear from the FDA. And we expect to hear that the agency will authorize a third dose for immunocompromised people. That group includes organ transplant patients, for instance, who did not have a robust immune response to the first and second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. It could include cancer patients or HIV patients.
Now, with the possible rollout of a third dose, which again we expect could happen in the next 48 hours, that will start with the most vulnerable. So immunocompromised people, not the general public.
So, for the general public, health officials say they're still looking at when the right time for a possible third dose might be. Here's Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: While we think, based on, you know, looking at the trends in the data, that it is likely that boosters will be needed for a broader set of the population, what we are trying to figure out right now is the right timing for when to initiate those additional doses and also who those doses should be available to, based on where the need is greatest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD: So you see, Brianna, for the rest of us, there is still this discussion of when the right time might be. But for now, again, we could see this possible phased rollout of third doses, starting with immunocompromised people.
We already have seen other nations: Israel, the U.K., France, Germany. They've all announced plans to roll out third doses for immunocompromised populations, as well as older adults. Here in the United States, we'll see what the FDA will have to say in the next 48 hours -- Brianna.
KEILAR: For now, it is not now unless you are immunocompromised. That should be coming very soon. We know you're watching this, Jacqueline. Thanks so much.
HOWARD: Thank you.
BERMAN: So with schools starting in parts of the country, polls show a clear majority of parents do support mask requirements in schools. In Tennessee, the Williamson County School Board this week approved a temporary mask order as classes begin there this morning. Here is one father who is also a doctor at the meeting where this happened, explaining why he supports masks in schools.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. BRITT MAXWELL, INTERNAL MEDICINE SPECIALIST: At my hospital, we're seeing otherwise healthy people in their 30s and 40s getting sick, and the case counts are going up exponentially, and some are dying.
And we have to do everything we can to protect the whole community. And that means the people in this room that don't agree with me and their kids in the classrooms. If we don't do this, we're going to have school shutdowns and quarantines and needless tragedies. And I don't want that for my community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Again, a majority of parents in the country do support masks, but a vocal and, in some cases, angry minority do not. And after this Tennessee meeting we just showed you there, some of that minority became threatening and harassed people wearing masks as they left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not right! You're not right! You're not right!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not right! You're not right! You're not right!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not right! You're not right! You're not right!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more masks! No more masks! No more masks!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more masks! No more masks! No more masks!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more masks! No more masks! No more masks!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take that mask off! No more masks! No more masks!
You're all abusers! You are shot (ph) abusers! There's a place for you guys! There's a bad place in hell, and everybody is taking notes, buddy. Keep that little smirk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put it back on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to put that mask on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put your mask on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- those poor kids, sucking their bacteria.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put your mask on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you like that! Huh? We know who you are. We know who you are. No more masks!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep it calm. Keep it calm. Keep it calm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more masks! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're on these guys' side. They're on our side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, they're not. They're not on our side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police are on our side. The police are on our side. Let's calm down. Calm down. We know who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can leave freely. But we can find you, and we know who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know who you are. You will never be allowed -- I know who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know who you are. Let him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's let him out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better watch out. You better watch out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep it calm. Keep it calm. Everybody back up. Everybody back up. Please. Back up. Back up. Back up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm back, man. I'm on your side.
I'm a parent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a lane for him to get out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are police. Police. Peace. Peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peace, brother. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know who you are. We know who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:10:11]
BERMAN: "We know who you are. We will find you." "God abuser."
Joining me now is Dr. Britt Maxwell. You heard him speak earlier inside that board meeting. He's been treating COVID patients since the beginning of that pandemic.
That was a terrifying scene after the meeting you were at. Now, I have to be clear: you were not personally threatened, because you left earlier. I think because you were afraid of the direction things were going in. But what's it like for you to watch --
MAXWELL: That's right, John.
BERMAN: What's it like for you to watch that video?
MAXWELL: It was shocking. I left. I left after the public speaking portion of the meeting. I spoke. I said my piece. And the energy in that room was -- it was hot. And I knew that things were going to get a lot worse.
And my wife was there. She's a medical professional, too. So we decided we need to go during the recess. So we walked out. And at the time we walked out, there was -- there was a crowd outside. They were chanting. They -- they responded to us when we walked out. And it -- it was intense.
Before we walked out, we had to brace ourselves. I took my wife's arm, and I said, Just remember, no matter what they say, these are the lives we're trying to save. And we walked out.
And I was approached, and someone put their hand in my face and called me a traitor, which I don't see how that's -- how anyone can say that when I've been on the front lines of this pandemic since the beginning, treating patients in rooms, unvaccinated for the vast majority of it, hoping I wouldn't take it home to my family. And for someone to say that, it's mind-blowing.
And it wasn't until the next morning that someone showed me this video, and I was shaken. I was very, very, very scared by that.
BERMAN: Do you feel safe?
MAXWELL: I like to think that -- that what you saw in that video was the product of a lot of bottled anger and a few people who lost control of their emotions.
And it's not acceptable to threaten people. And it's not acceptable to harass people the way they did. But I was there. There were hundreds of people there that were -- that disagreed with me, that were on the other side of the debate. And I like to think that these were also concerned parents that cared about their kids, that want the best for them, that have different facts than I have. And I like to think that tempers will cool, and I will be safe and my family will. I hope so.
BERMAN: I hope so, too. They called you a traitor. And you've been treating COVID patients for 16 months, including one, I understand, this week of, you now, a 53-year-old unvaccinated man. They called you a traitor after that. But tell me about your experience inside the hospital.
MAXWELL: So, this is a new phase of the pandemic. It is something totally new. What we're seeing now, it truly is, as they say, a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
And what we're seeing is patients that are skewing younger: 30s, 40s, 50s. People that, in some cases, like I said, have no pre-existing medical conditions and have no business being as sick as they are, but they're coming in very sick. And when they do, the vast majority of them didn't receive the
vaccine. And at that moment, look, statistics don't lie. The -- most of the people that are getting sick are unvaccinated. And at the bedside, when you have a new patient that's sick, and they're going to require life support, and you know that they got this illness because they didn't take this free, readily available vaccine, then it's easy for your empathy to falter.
But the fact is that, once you see them, these are just people that can't breathe, and they're scared and are looking to you for help. And they got the wrong information, or they thought that their fertility might be affected, or they thought they'd have a side effect or it wasn't effective. Or my goodness, there's a microchip in it or something along those lines.
And it's -- it's impossible to fight that kind of disinformation sometimes. And I saw that firsthand at this meeting. It was clear that you can't have a discourse with someone who doesn't share a common set of facts. And their facts are different than ours. And it --
BERMAN: How much of a toll -- how much of a toll has this taken on you personally, you know, emotionally over the last year or so? I know you have a child who's got some respiratory issues, so you've got particular concerns about this inside your own house.
MAXWELL: That's true. It's -- from the beginning, you can ask any healthcare worker. I mean, doctors and nurses were dying on the front lines at the beginning of this pandemic. And we didn't know just how virulent this thing was, and how easy it was to catch it.
So, you know, I've felt at risk at the beginning, and now my children are at risk.
And that's why I went to this meeting the other night, because my kids are too young to get the vaccine. They don't have the choice to take this vaccine. And their health depends on the people around them.
[06:15:07]
And the safest way to have school and to keep school in session is for people to mask up. And that's why I went to that meeting. I certainly had no idea I was going to be part of a national news story.
BERMAN: Listen, Britt Maxwell, you're not a traitor. You're a hero, as far as we're concerned, for the work that you've done and you continue to do and the lives you continue to save. And the people you continue to try to help. So we thank you for the work you're doing.
We're sorry that you had to go through this. Know that a majority of the country agrees with you about the way to go forward, particularly in schools, but I know that must be hard when people are calling you names. Thanks for being with us.
MAXWELL: Thank you.
KEILAR: That hurts my heart -- BERMAN: Yes.
KEILAR: -- to see people attacking the heroes, really, of this pandemic. You know? I mean, all the time we talk about people who are in service, and we talk about honoring them. Historically in this country, we have looked at moments where they were not honored and the price they paid for that. We know what that is. We know what that is. And they shouldn't be enduring this.
BERMAN: "We will find you." What the hell does that mean?
KEILAR: It's a threat.
BERMAN: "We will find you"? You know, for what? For suggesting that people wear masks, for medical advice? It's horrifying.
Big news in the defamation lawsuits against Donald Trump's biggest attack dogs. Why a judge is allowing the cases against Rudy Giuliani and the My Pillow guy to move forward.
KEILAR: Plus, a former U.S. attorney says he quit because Trump pushed him to lie about the election results.
And Afghanistan is on the verge of collapsing, even before the U.S. officially leaves. What new -- new U.S. intel is revealing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:20:58]
KEILAR: Developing this morning, a federal judge will allow three major defamation lawsuits to proceed against some of former President Trump's most loyal supporters.
Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell and My Pillow executive CEO Mike Lindell, they are all being sued for billions of dollars in damages by Dominion Voting Systems, which is the company that they falsely accused of election fraud.
Let's talk about this now with CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild and former head prosecutor from Morris County, New Jersey, and a host on the Law and Crime Network, Robert Bianchi, with us.
You now, Robert -- or actually Whitney, let me start with you here. Tell us what has happened in this -- it's procedural, but it's important.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Right, right. And Robert can get into the -- the meaning of the procedural moment here. But basically, I'll just tick through the facts.
So -- so Dominion is bringing this lawsuit. This is just a couple -- it's bringing this lawsuit against Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Lindell, basically saying that the damage they did spreading this misinformation about their voting machines somehow rigging the 2020 election was so damaging that they should have to cough up one point -- I think $1.5 billion or $1.3 billion.
That is in addition to the two other lawsuits that Dominion filed earlier this week against these right-wing outlets that were also perpetuating this election fraud lie, that they were somehow in on it, that they rigged it, that their machines were -- their machines rigged this election for Joe Biden, which is obviously not true.
Their -- those lawsuits, going for 1.6 billion. So 3.1 billion, I guess, between all of these five lawsuits, is enormous.
And right now, the judge is basically saying, I think there's enough information here, enough evidence to go on. So he's tossing out this push by Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell and Mike Lindell to get the case tossed.
Their argument had been, well, it's free speech. Well, there's still not consensus on what happened with the election.
And the judge said, No, we're moving forward.
BERMAN: So counselor, this is a Trump-appointed judge, I believe, first of all, correct? So a Trump-appointed judge opening up a world of potential hurt here for Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell and others.
What's the most threatening aspect to them of this now? The idea that they could have to sit for depositions -- Robert.
ROBERT BIANCHI, FORMER HEAD PROSECUTOR IN MORRIS COUNTY, NEW JERSEY: Oh, yes, absolutely. The biggest thing that we have going on here is that this was kind of a pro forma or typical motion that is filed in court.
But this judge, disdainfully, may I add, said that Dominion has made out a case at this point in time. They can certainly dispute it. But what's going to happen, John, is it's going to go into a discovery process, they call it, where they have to give not only sworn answers and interrogatories; but moreover, the nuclear bomb here for the three defendants is they have to give sworn depositions.
And in these depositions, which are done with a court reporter under oath, where the attorneys are allowed to ask any question they want as long as it's not privileged information. So this gets into bleeds, into all sorts of potential areas of corruptions where they have to give answers to questions.
And the thing that we used to love as prosecutors -- I ran a prosecutorial agency -- is we used to just sit back and love when there was a civil suit filed, because all sorts of information were coming through with the depositions that otherwise in the criminal world, we would not be able to get, because those individuals had exercised the right to remain silent.
So this is a devastating blow. Because they're not only going to get into the issues with respect to Dominion Voting Systems and the lies and the fraud that existed with respect to that. The nuclear bomb is they're going to be able to get into all sorts of conversations about the meetings with the president, the meetings with the staff, what was said, what wasn't said, in order to try to prove that they had no basis in fact whatsoever to make those accusations against Dominion.
So from that standpoint, as a -- as a lawyer, I always ask my staff, would you rather be on the Lindell, Powell, Giuliani side, or would you rather be on the Dominion Voting side? There is hands down no doubt this was a huge victory for Dominion. And I suspect prosecutors are watching very carefully about what those depositions reveal.
[06:25:08]
KEILAR: It's potentially a gold mine, and the judge is saying, Proceed, explore as you wish.
I also want to ask you, Whitney, about B.J. Pak, who is a former U.S. attorney out of Atlanta, talking to congressional investigators. He resigned in January as you had Trump pushing the big lie and pressuring Georgia officials to, you now, find votes. What's going on here?
WILD: Right. OK. So this -- the succession of events here is really important.
So B.J. Pak went in to give his congressional testimony yesterday. And it was three hours, three and a half hours. And what he told lawmakers was that he knew he was falling out of favor with President Trump. He thought President Trump is going to fire him. So he said, You know what I'm out of here.
Let's look at the date of that. That was January 4. January 3, the day before, was this "Apprentice"-style meeting between Jeffrey Clark, Jeffrey Rosen, and Donald Trump, where Jeffrey Clark was trying to convince Donald Trump to put him as attorney general, making the case that he could take these election fraud cases to the finish line, not Jeffrey Rosen.
In that moment, cooler heads prevailed, but it was basically right after that meeting that one of the top DOJ officials called B.J. Pak and said, You've got to call me right away.
And so after that call, ten hours later, B.J. Pak resigned. Again, this is two days after President Trump had had that call with the Georgia secretary of state, trying to get him to dig up more votes, overturn the Georgia election.
However, one thing I think is notable that emerged from that conversation yesterday with congressional investigators. B.J. Pak did say he didn't think it was unreasonable for Trump to have concerns about the election in Georgia, based on the overwhelming allegations of fraud there.
However, Bobby Christine -- it was the U.S. attorney in Savannah -- came in to take B.J. Pak's spot. Even after January 6, he was saying, Look, there's nothing here. It doesn't exist.
So again, this is a really critical testimony. It is one of a series. We've already heard from Jeffrey Rosen. We know Senate Judiciary wants to hear from Jeffrey Clark. So this is just one more stop along this long time line we're going to hear a lot more about what actually happened.
BERMAN: "The New York Times" reports that Pak also said that it was investigated by federal authorities, and they found no merit at all to the claims that Trump was making. So he basically quit because he wasn't going to lie. He wasn't going to vocalize the lie that Trump was insisting that he -- that he do.
So, Robert, what do you make of this? What do you make of this decision by him to quit rather than lie publicly?
BIANCHI: I don't think that people can understand as a prosecutor what is happening here to the rule of law.
When I was the prosecutor, nobody would even think a politician speaking to me, trying to influence a decision I was making. And respectfully with regard to Mr. Pak, I -- I feel bad for his situation, but the fact of the matter is, he should have stood there and toed the line. He should have waited for Trump to fire him.
The fact of the matter is, he indicated that there was no evidence of widespread fraud. He was being asked to find corruption. He said he couldn't find any.
And when he got a whisper in his ear that Trump may fire him, which he should have waited to happen in order to build a better case, he resigned. He didn't release this information to anybody.
And when you add this data point to all the other data points -- find corruption, just get me whatever, you now, 1,000 amount of votes in order for me to get over Georgia -- it shows a pattern of practice that prosecutors will put together to say this was not an innocent thing where -- where the president or his people actually thought that there was real fraud. This was a strong-arm tactic.
And you know what really bothers me about this? And to be honest with you, is every day, day in and day out, we deal with -- with clients that have minor infractions of federal law, and the full weight of the government comes down on them like a ton of bricks.
But here we have something at the foundation of our constitutional democracy, and it seems like we're playing tiddlywinks with regard to whether or not we're going to really investigate it from the standpoint of something that could have affected the outcome of our democracy, put us in a constitutional crisis.
Personally, I, if it were me, I would have stayed into the position, and I would have waited to be fired so that I could show that, yet, there's another piece of evidence that there's undue influence. There's lots of federal laws, lots of state laws that prohibit this kind of conduct. And politicians have gone down for a far less than this.
We'll wait to see whether or not there's the intestinal fortitude to bring this forward and do what happens to all sorts of other American citizens right now today, every day, in every court around the country. Will this be the exception to the rule in this most profound circumstance? Let's hope not.
KEILAR: Robert, thank you so much for your insight here. Whitney, thank you so much for your reporting.
The Taliban is gaining ground in Afghanistan. And they're doing this at a breathtaking speed. We have some new reporting about when intelligence officials think the capital city could fall.
BERMAN: Plus, Rand Paul revealing that his wife bought stock in a company behind a coronavirus treatment. What influence did this have on his public positions during the pandemic?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
