Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

FDA Approves Booster for Immunocompromised; Southeastern States Battling Increased COVID Infections; Afghanistan on Verge of Collapse as Taliban Take Over; Texas Hospital Forced to Transfer Pregnant Patients Amid Surge. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 13, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. It is Friday, August 13.

[05:59:56]

And overnight, a major announcement from the FDA that will have a direct impact on millions of Americans. Authorization of a third dose of the coronavirus vaccine. So, it's not for everyone yet. Just the immunocompromised for now.

The ruling comes as hospitals grow increasingly overwhelmed. Nearly 80,000 Americans are hospitalized with COVID this morning. That's the highest number in six months.

Half of all COVID patients are in these eight states, even though they account for only a quarter of the nation's population.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: One of those states, Mississippi, is seeing its highest hospitalization numbers ever. Republican Governor Tate Reeves is extending a state of emergency but says there will be no lockdowns or mask mandates.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is deploying a rapid response team to fight his state's coronavirus surge with antibody treatments, but he is still banning mask mandates and cracking down on cities and school districts that disobey him.

The virus right now spreading so rapidly in Florida that officials in Brevard County are pleading with residents to use 911 sparingly, because hospital rooms are at capacity.

Let's talk about all this news now with Dr. Chris Pernell. She is a public health physician and a fellow at the American College of Preventive Medicine.

Dr. Pernell, thank you so much for joining us in studio.

DR. CHRIS T. PERNELL, FELLOW, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE: Great to be here.

KEILAR: Let's start with this decision, this guidance when it comes to a third dose for some Americans. What do we need to know? What don't we know at this point?

PERNELL: It's big news, right? So approximately less than 3 percent of the American adult population, so about 7 million persons, are immunocompromised. We're talking about people who have had solid organ transplants, possibly blood cancers or any other chronic condition where they're taking immune suppressant drugs. They will be eligible to receive a third dose of a vaccine.

This group has been really vocal, as have been their physicians, about how do we protect them; because they didn't mount a really good immune response to the first two doses of the vaccine.

BERMAN: Yes. They never got the immune response that others did from the first two doses. Dr. Fauci, one of the things he said, is maybe they should have had the third dose all along to get them where they need to be.

But what about the rest of us? I put myself in the "us" category. Not there quite yet, but for instance, older Americans?

PERNELL: So, there are several groups, John, that we need to think about. Older Americans, Americans who are living in nursing homes, as well as those who are severely immunocompromised.

It's not quite time yet to authorize or to say you should go out and get a third dose, although there are case reports of people getting third doses, because they feel insecure in whether or not they're really fully protected.

But I say let the data collect. Let the science do what the science is designed to do before we start to broaden that population.

KEILAR: So the guidance probably has people who got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine -- I mean, I suspect, if someone is immunocompromised, they probably went for more for a Moderna or a Pfizer, because the percentage was higher. But when it comes to people who did get Johnson & Johnson, it's not in this guidance. So what do they need to know?

PERNELL: Stay tuned.

KEILAR: They don't get, like, an additional dose of Moderna or something?

PERNELL: That's the best and that's the most sensible thing that we should say. We don't want people in a rush to just get a vaccine without knowing what the science says.

We're going to hear from the CDC. The CDC is going to give us further guidance around those particular patient populations who should get that third dose. And then evidence will continue to build. As that evidence builds, we'll have a more specific guideline for those who have had Johnson & Johnson.

KEILAR: But in their case, I mean, that was a one and done shot.

PERNELL: Yes, it was. KEILAR: So it would be so -- it would be -- do we have any sense?

Would it be they get one shot of something else?

PERNELL: So right now --

KEILAR: We really just don't know.

PERNELL: Right now it's our best, most educated guess, right, would either be Pfizer or Moderna. It wouldn't necessarily be you have to get Moderna or you have to get Pfizer.

But I do want to reassure those who have had Johnson & Johnson, real- world data, as well as studies, have shown that vaccine has held up against preventing severe disease. So that's what it's supposed to do.

BERMAN: All right. So we're hearing once again from the White House and the administration, not to mention medical leaders around the country, about the benefits of monoclonal antibody treatment. This is treatment. It's not prevention. Vaccines are prevention. This is treatment.

What are the known benefits? And how available is this type of treatment?

PERNELL: You know, John, this is a frequent question that I get in community. I actually just got it last night in Newark in New Jersey.

So with the monoclonal antibodies, what we know, if you're a person who's tested positive, you've had symptoms for ten days or less, and you're at risk for severe disease, you should get a monoclonal antibody.

A lot of the public still doesn't know what that is. We want to make sure providers have that on their radar. If you're 65 and older, if you have chronic conditions, whether that's cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, chronic kidney disease, you're eligible for that, as well as certain folks in the pediatric population.

BERMAN: There's an effort now to surge more of these treatments to more places where people might be getting sick. Hopefully, that will make a difference.

Dr. Pernell, always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much.

KEILAR: Breaking overnight, Kandahar, Afghanistan's second largest city, falling to the Taliban. Fourteen provincial capitals have now been overrun by insurgents in a stunning rapid sweep across the country.

[06:05:11]

The U.S. is rushing 3,000 troops to Afghanistan to help evacuate embassy personnel.

CNN's Clarissa Ward live for us in Kabul. It seems like things are getting worse by the hour and certainly by the day, Clarissa.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's certainly what it feels like here on the ground, Brianna. Those 3,000 troops that you mentioned, they're arriving today and tomorrow, and they're going to begin the process of withdrawing personnel from the U.S. embassy, getting them out of the country.

It's being called a withdrawal, but here on the ground, this is definitely being seen as an evacuation. And that's because this is happening against the landscape of just stunning gains for the Taliban.

The Afghan forces unraveling at an alarming rate. Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand province, falling last night. And most importantly, Kandahar. This is Afghanistan's second largest city. This is the spiritual heartland of the Taliban. It was their actual, self-declared capital when they announced the creation of their emirate back in the day.

And there's a very real sense that, as the Taliban has taken this major strategic and symbolic city, that it's impossible now for government forces to try to reverse those gains.

I spoke to a lawmaker, Brianna, on the ground in Kandahar, who we just interviewed last week. He said that he had to flee from his home. He ran to a military base near the airport. He said Taliban fighters have gone to his home, looking for him.

People very, very worried now about retaliation attacks, revenge attacks, extrajudicial killings. And so there is definitely a sense of growing chaos. That, of course, only contributing to a sense of deep unease and, indeed, some panic here in the capital as Taliban fighters continue this offensive -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, and reportedly, the Taliban is rolling into these provincial capitals with American-made weapons and vehicles. You know, they have a lot of material that they're coming in with.

But can you speak a little bit more about Kabul? Because it has long been believed that Kabul, you know, could stand. But that was also based on the idea that some of these other places wouldn't fall.

WARD: Everything is being reassessed. All the estimates that were made are being thrown out the window.

And you mentioned that military hardware left and donated by the U.S. We were just with the Taliban in Ghazni province, which is now completely under their control. We saw them driving around in Ford pickup trucks that had been donated to the Afghan army, that the Afghan army was using in their positions and bases.

We saw entire streets in the district of Andar fluttering with white Taliban flags. I can't tell you, Brianna, what a surreal sight that is to see.

This is a group that, up until just a few months ago, was an underground insurgency, and now it holds a vast amount of territory on the ground.

And because that's happened so quickly, you do have to ask the question about how quickly could Kabul fall? I think the estimates are, according to U.S. intelligence officials, that it could be isolated within 30 days.

It's not clear that the Taliban actually wants to take the chance of coming into Kabul because that would likely be a very bloody scene. But frankly, at this stage, all they need to do is surround it and cut it off, and they will still be able to achieve their strategic objective.

They believe that they can win this militarily. And that means that there isn't a lot of leverage for other parties at the negotiating table.

BERMAN: You know, Clarissa, you don't have to read between the lines too much to get a sense of alarm from the State Department and other U.S. departments about the Americans who are still in Afghanistan, still in Kabul.

I know these 3,000 troops being deployed very quickly to help them, as you say evacuate. And I think that's the right word there. What exactly will those troops be doing?

WARD: They will be essentially trying to get people to the airport and get them out of the country as quickly as possible. Their goal is to do this by August 31. That is not in the too distant future, as you can imagine.

I think from the Taliban's perspective, it's important to underscore that what the Taliban really wants to see here is for all Americans to leave as soon as is humanly possible. And I think they'll do whatever it takes to try to facilitate that.

So I would say that one should be cautious about being overly speculative that they might try to attack Americans as they were leaving. They might try to attack the U.S. embassy. Because they know that that would only draw more of a reaction from the U.S. and from U.S. forces.

And one other thing I would say is it's precisely these topics that right now U.S. special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad is discussing in Doha, in Qatar with the Taliban, essentially thrashing out deals. How can we make this work? How can we mitigate losses on all sides and try to get these people out as quickly as possible?

[06:10:15]

That's the primary objective for the American negotiators there. What still remains to be seen is what happens to all the Afghan people living in government-held areas who have worked for the government, who have worked for the Americans? Still, the potential for an awful lot of bloodshed and suffering -- John.

KEILAR: Yes, and the U.S. does not have the upper hand, for sure, at that negotiating table.

Clarissa, thank you so much. We'll continue to check in with you and certainly you will be on CNN throughout the day as we see this unfold before our eyes in Afghanistan.

Coming up, one hospital so overwhelmed with COVID cases that doctors have to relocate pregnant patients just to make room. A doctor on the front lines will tell us what he's seeing.

BERMAN: So two senators from the same state but vastly different approaches to the pandemic. New CNN reporting on what's driving the divide.

Plus, the homeland security secretary says an unprecedented number of migrants are crossing the southern border into the United States. So what is the Biden administration's plan to deal with this growing crisis?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:15:30]

BERMAN: One hospital in Texas is struggling with a dramatic spike in COVID cases. The situation is so dire that they have been forced to move their pregnant patients out to other facilities to make room for COVID patients.

Joining us now is Dr. Joseph Chang, chief medical officer for Parkland Health and Hospital Systems in Dallas.

Dr. Chang, thanks so much for being with us. Parkland, obviously, a famous, revered medical facility. You've had to move your pregnant women out? Why?

DR. JOSEPH CHANG, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, PARKLAND HEALTH AND HOSPITAL SYSTEMS: Yes. It's a really incredible situation and certainly, one that we really never thought we would be in.

As you point out, we have always been one of the biggest maternity wards in terms of volume in the country, and now with our lack of staff and lack of ability to bring more staff in, we've had to move patients to other area hospitals for patient safety.

BERMAN: Why do you have a lack of staff?

CHANG: Well, you know, this COVID situation has really driven the market a little bit crazy. With the national sort of nursing shortage compounding on this particular crisis, it's made a bidding war of sorts for -- for nursing health.

And we're not alone in this. Most hospitals are in the same boat. Just this month, you probably have heard the governor of Texas has made available 2,500 nurses to -- to bolster our ranks.

But however, if you think about that, 250 counties in Texas, that's not going to go real far. So, this is -- this is something that we're all dealing with right now, struggling with.

BERMAN: Is there a risk if you're a pregnant woman? Or how much is the risk to not being able to get the treatment you need when you need it, because you're so overrun with COVID patients?

CHANG: Yes. Well, fortunately, right now, you know, our city and the surrounding areas in north Texas, we have a real good coalition with a lot of our sister hospitals, and we're able to find that care, whether it's me helping another hospital or another hospital helping me.

But at some point, it becomes an untenable situation. And, of course, the solution to this is to relieve the entire community of this COVID burden. And that's vaccination.

BERMAN: What kind of patient are you seeing now with COVID? What are your COVID patients looking like? And where is that number trending?

CHANG: Listen, the trend is off the charts. And that is not an exaggeration. We're now rising faster in terms of admissions here in north Texas than ever before in any of the prior peaks; we are rising higher now.

The really interesting thing that you will see now is that our patient demographics now skew younger. We're averaging the 40s for age for our hospitalized COVID patients. That's a far cry from what we were seeing in prior peaks. Prior peaks we were seeing older individuals.

Now, you may ask the question, why? Why now is the age younger? Well, actually, if we take a look at our demographics of vaccination, it becomes very obvious.

Our 65 and older age group here in Dallas County is very well- vaccinated. Upwards of 80, 85 percent of that population.

However, we find that our 18- to 49-year-olds are vaccinated at a rate of less than 40 percent. And so, it's obvious this is what we're seeing as admissions. These admissions and this disease is of the unvaccinated. And that much must be clear to our public.

BERMAN: How many of your patients are vaccinated?

CHANG: So, I asked my chief of hospital medicine to look at every single COVID admission between January 15 and July 15. Out of those 1,100 patients that were admitted here at my hospital for COVID-19, only 27 were vaccinated. Only seven of those needed oxygen.

BERMAN: Wow. Wow.

CHANG: So it's not -- vaccinated.

BERMAN: Overwhelmingly unvaccinated. I mean, you can't even -- you know, percentage-wise, it's off the charts. And as you said, the rate of people getting sick right now where you are, off the charts, as well.

Joseph Chang, I hope that trends turn around, and I hope you get the help you need. Because I'm not sure how much longer you can work in these situations. Thank you.

CHANG: Well, we appreciate having (ph) you. Thank you.

BERMAN: More on our breaking news as Afghanistan is on the verge of collapse. President Biden said just last month that the Taliban takeover was unlikely.

KEILAR: And election deja vu in America: how Russia is already trying to interfere in next year's midterms.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:24:21]

BERMAN: More on our breaking news this morning. At least 14 capital cities in Afghanistan now under Taliban control, including the strategic and symbolic city of Kandahar.

Now, despite the rapid fall of cities across the country, President Biden has remained firm on his decision to withdraw U.S. forces by the end of the month.

Here's a little history. Over the past 20 years, there have been upwards of 2,300 U.S. troop deaths in Afghanistan; 1,800 of them were killed in action. That's according to the Pentagon.

And the U.S. has spent more than $2 trillion on military operations there.

In that same time, about 241,000 Afghans and Pakistanis were killed, including more than 71,000 civilians. That's according to Brown University's Watson Institute of International Public Affairs.

[06:25:08]

In 2011, ten years ago, there were roughly 100,000 troops, U.S. troops in Afghanistan. There are now just 650 assisting with security in Kabul.

The first six months of 2021 saw a 47 percent increase in civilian casualties compared to 2020, with 1,659 people killed. That's according to the United Nations.

KEILAR: and 20 years after the war began, following the attacks of September 11th, there are concerns that the entire country could fall here in the coming weeks.

Joining us now is Sebastian Junger. He is a journalist and the co- director of the Oscar-nominated film "Restrepo," that depicts a U.S. platoon in Afghanistan in a particularly dangerous part of the country.

Sebastian, thank you so much for being with us. You know, you have been such a voice in describing, really, the narrative of the war in Afghanistan. And I wonder now what you're thinking as you see this happening. SEBASTIAN JUNGER, JOURNALIST/FILMMAKER: Well, I'm heartbroken. It's a

country that I started going to in the mid-'90s and sort of fell in love with it. And the efforts of Ahmad Shah Massoud in the Northern Alliance to keep Afghanistan from being completely overrun by the Taliban were, in my view, really sort of heroic. I thought those people didn't have their flaws.

But now, this is predictable -- predictable to me. I mean, they -- I was there in 2001. The Taliban collapsed very quickly, and -- and we didn't sort of finish the job. Like, we left 15,000 troops there. And this is a huge, complicated country. There's 40,000 cops in New York City, by way of comparison. We left 15,000. And basically, went to Iraq.

And the Afghans would say to me, you know, we know what happened to the Kurds in Iraq. You allied with them during the first Gulf War. And you completely abandoned them, and they were slaughtered. So we're going to be very careful. They'd say that to me about this country.

KEILAR: What --

JUNGER: And in the long run it took 20 years, but they were right. I mean, they -- yes.

KEILAR: What do you think? What is the significance to you of the fact -- you know, you mentioned the Taliban collapsing very quickly. That was due, of course, because of, you know, U.S. Special Forces linking up with the Northern Alliance.

And what we've actually seen now, that -- the Northern Alliance was resisting the Taliban. The Taliban has swept through the North. You know, what does that say about the strength of the Taliban here?

JUNGER: Well, obviously, they are presenting themselves as an overwhelming force. And what -- I don't think they're fighting their way through the country. That would, frankly, take a lot longer.

And this is the way this works. There are negotiations. So the Taliban forces will -- will -- will draw close to a town like Jalalabad, where I was in 1996. And I watched the Taliban delegation come to Jalalabad. They were staying at the same hotel I was, the Spinghar Hotel. They looked at me very skeptically and negotiated with the -- the leaders of Jalalabad. And negotiated the surrender. They didn't take Jalalabad. It was handed over to them.

I think that's probably what's happening with commander after commander all around the country. They're not fighting for it. And they're not fighting, because the U.S. -- the government forces are not fighting, because the system completely collapsed. And among other things, they can't get resupplied. They can't get ammunition, because that stuff is being sold by bureaucrats in Kabul.

KEILAR: I want you, Sebastian, to listen to something that the president said last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- that means you evacuate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, it is not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

BIDEN: Because you have the Afghan troops. You have 300,000 well- equipped, as well-equipped as any army in the world, and an air force, against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable.

The jury is still out. But the likelihood there's going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly

unlikely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think of -- of hearing that, of Biden saying the Taliban overrunning the entire country is unlikely. You know, what is your now, looking back on that sound, what do you think? And also, what do you think the story will be here? Is it going to be a story of, like, a Vietnam 2.0?

JUNGER: Well, obviously, it was wishful thinking or a politic statement that wasn't sincere. I can't know the president's mind.

But for me, first of all, we can get people out of the U.S. embassy. Clearly, we've got the assets and the capabilities to do that. For me, the unknown and -- is what's going to happen to the Afghan people.

And when he says, no, they probably won't overrun the country.