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FDA Authorizes Third Dose for Some Immunocompromised; Hospitals on Brink, ICU Beds Running Out Across Nation; Afghanistan on Verge of Collapse as Taliban Take Over. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired August 13, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: That but different, as it were. Natasha Bertrand, thank you very much for your reporting. I appreciate it.

New Day continues right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world, it is Friday, the 13th, Friday, August 13th.

BERMAN: What could possibly go wrong?

KEILAR: I know. Let's hope not much, right?

9 million immunocompromised Americans are now authorized by the FDA to get a third coronavirus vaccine shot. So this will be good news to many folks who have been worried about that. And this is coming after a recent study by Johns Hopkins researchers. What they found is that vaccinated immunocompromised people are 485 times -- can you believe that? That's such a big number. They're more likely that many times to end up in the hospital or to die from COVID-19 compared to the general population that has gotten the shot. And the CDC's vaccine panel is scheduled to meet today to discuss booster doses, so the amount here. Dr. Fauci says it is inevitable that even healthy people will require booster shots soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Right now the decision is we don't need to do it right now. It's not imminent. But we're preparing as if it will be imminent. So we're going to be ready to do it whenever the data shows that the protection has gone below a certain level because of combination of the durability of protection and the special effect you're seeing with the delta variant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Dr. Fauci also says the delta variant is putting more children in hospitals. At this moment, nearly 1,800 children are battling COVID in the hospital. That's the highest number at any point during this pandemic. So, joining us now is CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, this decision from the FDA came overnight, the decision to authorization a third shot for the immunocompromised. How significant is this?

I think it's really significant for that group of people, 9 to 10 million people that we're talking about. Not surprising for all the reasons you just mentioned. I mean, I think there's been increasing evidence of two important things. One is that they've been measuring antibody levels. They see the antibody levels have waned, but also that these people were more likely to end up in the hospital, more likely to get severely ill. So, It's really a combination of those two things, measuring antibody levels alone may not be the thing that everyone is focusing on, but the fact that people are getting sick.

Show you who we're talking about here, immunocompromised. This is something that we are going to want to have them define clearly, solid organ transplant recipients, they take medications to suppress their immune system so that their own immune system does not attack their new transplanted organ, right? So they are clearly on that list. But there are other people on the list as well. People who may recently had chemotherapy, people who take immunosuppressants because of autoimmune disease. Again, they need to define that clearly.

But it's going to make a big difference in millions of people's lives, I think. In fact, I want to introduce you to a patient who has been sort of struggling with this and is probably now going to live a different life after this is officially passed by the CDC. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice over): 39-year-old Kimberly Cooley got her second dose of the COVID-19 vaccine back in February. She hoped at the time it would be a game changer.

KIMBERLY COOLEY, LIVER TRANSPLANT RECIPIENT: I knew that there was a possibility that it would not work for me. But given the situation with COVID and the pandemic, it was definitely worth the try.

GUPTA: She lived her life, hugged her nephews, felt free once again. But then --

COOLEY: I went to a local clinic near my home and requested an antibodies test, and received the results and I did not mount any antibodies.

GUPTA: It wasn't a surprise for Kimberly because back in 2018, she had had a liver transplant and now takes medications to suppress her immune system so her new liver isn't rejected. Unfortunately, that also means she is immunocompromised. Her immune system has a much harder time making antibodies after receiving the COVID vaccine.

COOLEY: We really don't have an immune system to fight off the virus, and so it's kind of an open game. GUPTA: A study of over 18,000 fully vaccinated transplant patients like Kimberly found that relative to the general population, they were 82 times more likely to develop a post vaccination infection. And 485 times more likely to be hospitalized or die from COVID-19.

COOLEY: I have to really be cautious about going into crowds and who I'm around.

[07:05:00]

Every single move I make regarding my life is calculated.

GUPTA: In addition to her already high risk, she lives in Mississippi, one of the least vaccinated states in the country and one with high transmission of virus as well. A risky mix, one that leaves her with little community protection to feel comfortable enough to connect with her young nephews.

COOLEY: It's just too risky. I mean, with my being transplant patient, they almost lost me once. And I don't want to put myself in a position for them to almost lose me again.

DR. AMESH ADALJA, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: We're already seeing clinical trial data on solid organ transplant patients, where a third dose of one of the two-dose regiments may boost their immunity.

GUPTA: This is what Dr. Amesh Adalja is talking about. Look at this graph. In transplant recipients who received the standard two doses, they developed some antibodies. But after a third shot, look what happened. The antibody levels went way up. And this is why the FDA is now authorizing a third shot for the roughly 9 million immunocompromised patients in the country.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: At this time, only certain immune compromised individuals may need an additional dose.

GUPTA: But none of this necessarily means that another shot will be recommended for everyone else.

What are you looking for as some maybe early clues that we would need booster shots?

ADALJA: I want to know what's happening to these patients clinically? Are they getting breakthrough infections? And are those breakthrough infections clinically significant, meaning are they severe enough to land them in the hospital?

GUPTA: For now the vaccines continue to protect most of us very well against severe illness. As for Kimberly, though, her own doctors have already signed off on her getting that third shot. And when she can --

COOLEY: That will be the first thing I do is go see my nephews and sneak that one more hug in.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KEILAR: I mean, that is what matters right there. Sanjay, I wonder what happens next for people like Kim.

GUPTA (on camera): Well, you know, the CDC is now going to officially recommend this. The FDA authorizes this third shot. The CDC recommendations it and part of it they're going to define again who is considered immunocompromised. I think it's pretty clear, Kimberly has considered this because she had this organ transplant. But that's going to be important and they're also going to need to define specifics like right now we think 28 days at least after your second shot could you be eligible for this third shot. So specifics like that are what's going to happen. But you already heard Kimberly has already gotten the okay from her doctor, so she is going to be in line pretty quickly to do this.

I do want to point out again, what is so interesting is that immunity is made up of so many different things. We've talked about this on your program so many different times. Antibodies, yes, we measure those. They're easy to measure. But there may be other things that the vaccines do in terms of providing immunity. And unless people are getting severe illness after vaccination, it's not clear when and if those third shots will be recommended for everyone else.

So, we'll see. We'll see. But for right now, it's just the immunocompromised.

KEILAR: All right, Sanjay. And if you can just stand by for us because we have a bunch more questions for you coming from our viewers, we're going to be asking those of you here just a little bit later.

In the meantime, a Tennessee E.R. doctor is making an impassioned plea on Facebook as his hospital is running out of beds. He writes, this past week has been one of the most exhausting and disheartening of my career. Six weeks ago, there were 200 COVID patients in hospitals in Tennessee. Today, there are 2,000, 1,000 percent increase in six weeks.

There's been a lot of talk about personal freedoms and mandates and government overreach and such, and some day when the sun is shining again, we can sit down and have some interesting conversations about all that. I might even agree with you on some of those points, but I can't do that today. Not today because there are no beds.

Tom Foreman is joining us now with the latest numbers. And they're alarming, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are, Brianna. All across this country and intensive care units this drama is playing out. This is the load on ICU bed utilization by state, in general. Of course, red is bad, an awful lot of load out there. But, specifically, look at the COVID beds where it's above 25 percent. And you can see some of these places are absolutely being hammered by this additional load, particularly if you look at the south down here where 25 percent and above, well, we know that some of these are way over 25 percent in terms of their COVID load. But look at that area down there. And if you want to know how much above it is, just look at the raw numbers. Florida, 587 beds left, Alabama, 90, Louisiana, 195. Mississippi, 0, Arkansas, 8, Oklahoma, Texas.

And bear in mind if you can find a bed open, if you get sick in Miami because you didn't get vaccinated because that's who is getting sick, mainly, and you need to go to the hospital, if you get sick in Miami and you have to go to, say, Jacksonville or Tallahassee that is a haul to make, a very difficult haul to make.

[07:10:14]

Same thing, Mobile to Birmingham, if you're down in Galveston and you have to go to Amarillo, the distance also matters, not just the beds are there. They're not everywhere, they're where they are, you would have to find them and you have to get to one.

And I want you to look very specifically at these numbers. Florida, the number there, Mississippi, the number there, Texas, the number there, collectively -- what are we talking about -- some 900 beds in three different states there. And yet, listen, 900 beds in three different states where you're talking about somewhere north of 50 million people.

900 beds, 50 million people and yet this is what their governors have been saying. You can either have a free society or we can have a biomedical security state and I can tell you, Florida we're a free state, Ron DeSantis down in Florida. Greg Abbott over in Texas, the path forward relies on personal responsibility, not government mandates. Governor Tate Reeves in Mississippi, where they have no beds, there will be no lockdowns and there will be no statewide mandates. This has been their position.

Yes, they say you should get vaccinated but they want to take no steps to make people wear masks, no steps to say people should have to be vaccinated or show that they are vaccinated, all in the name of freedom. And I'm telling you, Brianna, if you're riding around one of those state trying to find a bed right now for someone who is gasping in a seat next to you, I don't think you feel very free.

KEILAR: No. And, look, it's like that Tennessee doctor said, he would love to discuss all these things.

FOREMAN: Sure.

KEILAR: But not now, not today, not when he doesn't have any ICU beds because that's the reality.

FOREMAN: You can't argue with the fireman when your kitchen is on fire.

KEILAR: That's right. Tom, thank you so much for that.

BERMAN: So, major news developing at a breakneck pace in Afghanistan. The Taliban has taken control of the second largest city in that country, Kandahar. 14, 14 provincial capitals have now fallen really quickly. We're talking in the last several days as the Taliban sweeps across the country.

The U.S. now rushing 3,000 troops to Afghanistan to help evacuate embassy staff. President Biden says he is not second guessing the decision to withdraw all U.S. forces by the end of the month.

CNN's Kylie Atwood live at the State Department this morning, where, Kylie, all of a sudden, serious concern about U.S. embassy personnel and the need to get all Americans out fast.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. And as we're watching this unfold, these incremental developments really make you think about the fact that what is happening right now threatens to permanently stain President Biden's foreign policy legacy.

Now, we should note, John, that he has always said he would pull U.S. troops out of Afghanistan. But the way in which this is going down is alarming. As you see these Taliban gains across the country, as peace talks with the Taliban are going nowhere, as the human rights situation is, frankly, very alarming given that there are women and children being left in areas that are taken by the Taliban. And now there are these potential threats to U.S. personnel on the ground.

Now, of course, the State Department, the administration is doing all that they can to assure that any of these U.S. personnel get out of the country safely. They are preparing to take some of them out now, potentially take some of them out later. They are saying that some of that diplomatic core is remaining on the ground. But President Biden has repeatedly said that U.S. troops are leaving the country but America is not leaving the country. That promise is now in jeopardy as we're watching what is unfolding.

Now, as administration officials are watching this, they acknowledge that it is not going down exactly how they thought it would, but they don't think that there are grand political implications for the president here because the American people largely are supportive of getting troops home from Afghanistan. They've been there for 20 years.

The other thing administration officials are focused on is China. Now, of course, that really, to most folks has nothing to do with Afghanistan, but as you look at the foreign policy challenges, the Biden administration views competition with China as the primary foreign policy challenge, as their focus now. They want to shift resources towards that and that may come at the expense of shifting resources away from Afghanistan.

I want to point out that Secretary of State Tony Blinken gave a speech this week. He spoke about the need to invest in infrastructure and innovation here in the U.S. to compete with China. In that same speech, he didn't mention Afghanistan once even as we are watching what is unfolding there. So they are essentially saying, you know, look towards China. Look away from Afghanistan. But we can't do that right now because of what is unfolding on the ground, because of the human rights implications, because of this very, very quickly deteriorating situation.

[07:15:05]

John?

BERMAN: The fact that they have send thousands of troops in to help get people out, that indicates it is not going down the way they planned. Kylie Atwood, thank you so much for your reporting. Please keep us posted.

KEILAR: As part of its draw down of the troops in Afghanistan, the U.S. government also recently began evacuating more interpreters who had aided the military in their operations, but there are still thousands of Afghan interpreters and other support staff and their families who have been left behind and they're now facing persecution and maybe even death from the Taliban.

I'm joined now by someone who is dealing with this right now, Said Noor. He is an Afghan interpreter who immigrated from Afghanistan, joined the army and has served in the army as well and is now trying to get his family out of Afghanistan. Said, Thank you so much for joining us. I know you're sick and sleepless with worry. You have not been able to get your family out. What is the status of them?

SAID NOOR, U.S. ARMY VETERAN, AFGHAN INTERPRETER: Well, as you know, the situation is getting worse on the ground and the Taliban is making a lot of progress there. So, especially with my family, as they see their progress, they just get worried and worried, like every time, and they keep calling me every hour of the day and night. And they just want to know about their fate, how they're going to get out of Afghanistan or are they going to become the next targets for the Taliban.

So, so far I have not heard any positive feedback from the U.S. government as far as pulling my families out of Afghanistan and bringing them into safe haven and the United States.

KEILAR: So they're in a holding pattern. They're in Kabul. We had you on a couple weeks ago and you talked about the treacherous journey that they took through Taliban checkpoints where they had to use their wits in order to move in to Kabul.

You are a U.S. citizen. You are a U.S. veteran. What does that say if you are having problems getting your family out, what does that say about all the other Afghan interpreters and support staff and their families?

NOOR: Very difficult situation for them as well too. As I have mentioned before when my parents, my siblings were coming from Khost Province southeast, making their way all the way to Kabul, they had to use a lot of different excuses. My mother had to buy a lot of medications. She had to have a lot of prescriptions. And she was stopped by the Taliban at checkpoints coming to Kabul and she had to explain that she's seeking medical treatment in Kabul and that's how my family were allowed to go. But even for myself, I served this country as an interpreter for 17 years and I came back and I joined the U.S. military, served this country as U.S. military soldier and deployed back to Afghanistan, it is a difficult situation for myself. Again, if I put myself in the shoes of the other interpreters who do not have any U.S. contact or local interpreters in Afghanistan, their life is much danger as my family life is. And they have no way to get out of the country.

KEILAR: Said, are you surprised by how quickly these provincial capitals have fallen and that Kabul is now under threat so soon?

NOOR: I'm very, very surprised. That's something that never came to my mind. It never crossed my mind by having 300,000 Afghan forces in Afghanistan, so that Taliban making the gains and Taliban taking over the district centers, started from taking over the district centers and taking over the provincial capitals, and so far, they have captured 14 different provincial capitals where we had -- the Afghan government had the strongest forces there and the Taliban were able to take over. And it is half of the country. And I'm very concerned about the situation there. And I'm sure the Taliban, pretty soon, they're going to make their way into Kabul and it is going to be chaos and this country will turn into civil war.

KEILAR: Yes. It is a bad outlook at this point in time. Said, we're thinking of you. We're thinking of your family. We're going to keep checking in with you to see if they can get out, as it seems they are supposed to be able to do under what this administration has promised. Said Noor, thank you so much.

NOOR: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: In Arkansas, a couple pleading with Americans to get vaccinated after their infant got COVID and wound up hospitalized and on oxygen. They will be joining us live on New Day next.

BERMAN: And we have some brand new CNN reporting, moderate Democrats in a standoff with Nancy Pelosi threatening to pull their support for the party's $3.5 trillion spending plan. So what do they want?

[07:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Dr. Sanjay Gupta back with us now to answer some of your questions about the delta variant and also this news about third doses and boosters for the immune-suppressed.

[07:25:01]

Okay. Sanjay, first, this is something coming from Amy from California. She says, I heard Pfizer is only 42 percent effective against delta variant versus Moderna's 76 percent. She's referencing a study that I think at this point is not peer reviewed. But she said, if my first shot was Pfizer, should I get the Moderna for my second?

GUPTA: Okay. Well, there's sort of two questions in there, and let me show you some of the data from that study that's made a lot of news, but as you point out, as an early study has not been peer reviewed here. This is what I think she's referring to that basically said in January what was the level of effectiveness against any kind of infection, even an infection without symptoms and what was it in July. And you can see there's drop-off there according to this study. But, again, we'll see if this sort of holds up in larger datasets and larger numbers of people.

But let me show you something else that was in that study that I think got less attention but I think was more important, and that really has to do with what we're talking about for some time now, the impact on hospitalizations and deaths.

Look, guys, I mean, 100 percent protection against deaths from these vaccines, I know sometimes we gloss over that but that is obviously a very significant number and obviously a very high protection against hospitalizations as well. That's going to be the most critical thing going forward in terms of potential third shots for people. If you start to see a decrease in those numbers overall, severe illness protection starting to go down, that's when we might start thinking about the third shots for the general population.

As far as mixing and matching goes, which I think was the other part of her question, right now, the official line is if you got Pfizer, you should get another Pfizer. If you got Moderna, get another Moderna, but that's probably likely to change as well, because they're finding not only is it okay to get shots from other manufacturers, it might beneficial because you may be slightly stimulating other parts of the immune system and that may offer more protection. So, we'll see on that as well. But I think that hospitalizations and death is the critical number there.

BERMAN: You mentioned Moderna and Pfizer. Janet from your home state of Michigan wants to know, what about Johnson & Johnson? I got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine but I'm concerned about delta. Should I get a booster? What do we know at this point about J&J, whether people should getting a second shot of that or Moderna or Pfizer or what about the immunocompromised who might have had a J&J shot?

GUPTA: Yes. These are the important questions. I think as far as the immunocompromised who had a J&J and j shot, we hope to hear about that today from the CDC. It's likely they're going to be recommended another shot as well.

I think what is interesting though again is when they talk about J&J, a lot of people have said, look, that's an inferior shot, I need to get another shot. We got to look at the data again on this and I want to point out two things as we show you some of the data from how J&J has sort of performed over the past several months.

This is a busy slide, I realize. On the left is placebo. You get no antibodies. But on the right is basically looking at all the variants that we've had and how J&J stacked up 30 days after the first shot and then, again, eight months after the first shot. And if you're looking at antibodies alone, these neutralizing antibodies, not only do they hold up, it's interesting, if you look at delta specifically, you actually have a higher number of neutralizing antibodies eight months out. So to the extent antibodies are a good measure of immunity, still J&J does hold up pretty well.

The key, I think, is going to be the same thing we're just talking about. Do we start to see people who are healthy, vaccinated with J&J, start to develop severe illness, hospitalizations or deaths? We're not seeing that yet, but that's going to be an important trigger. We know that in San Francisco, for example, they recommended another shot for those who have had J&J, and, again, because, overall, they have some concern about the effectiveness of this, but we're going to look at hospitalizations and deaths to make the determination, I think that's what the CDC is saying, in terms of what will be recommended for healthy people who received a J&J across the country.

BERMAN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for answering these questions.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

BERMAN: A desperate plea from an Arkansas family with an infant currently hospitalized with COVID. That plea is to everybody, go get the vaccine. Last week, when one-year-old Carter Butrum displayed cold-like symptoms, his parents got him checked out and he tested negative for COVID. A few days later, the symptoms worsened and when he was taken to the hospital again, he tested positive. He has COVID. He had to be hospitalized and was put on oxygen.

Carter's father and Carter's big sister join me now, Kyle and Caden Butrum. Thank you both so much for being with us.

Kyle, it's the hardest thing in the world. When you have a child that's sick and I can't imagine to have a child in the hospital and not be able to go visit him, which is your situation right now, but just tell us how Carter is doing.

[07:30:06]

KYLE BUTRUM, FATHER OF CARTER, ONE-YEAR-OLD IN HOSPITAL WITH COVID: Thanks for having us, John.