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U.S. to Recommend Booster Shots and Months after Vaccination; Biden Threatens Devastating Force if Taliban Attack; CNN on Streets of Taliban-Controlled Kabul amid Evacuations. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired August 17, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GARRETT GRAFF, AUTHOR, THE ONLY PLANE IN THE SKY, AN ORAL HISTORY OF 9/11: -- misled for most of the 19 years ever since.

[07:00:03]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Garrett, I know that you have been watching this for the 19 years since, and I appreciate you being with us today. Thanks you.

GRAFF: Thanks so much for having me.

KEILAR: New Day continues right now.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Tuesday, August 17th.

And we do have some breaking news in the fight against COVID. The Biden administration finalizing a booster plan for most Americans. Anyone who received the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccine will be able to get a third dose of the same vaccine eight months after they have been fully vaccinated. And these shots could start rolling out next month after the vaccines are fully approved by the FDA. Health officials expect that a booster will also be needed for the one shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: So, this is a major expansion, and it comes just a week after boosters were first recommended for people with weakened immune systems. An official announcement on the expansion could come this week, and it comes as the delta variant spreads new cases across the country leading to a crush of patients in hospitals, primarily among the unvaccinated.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live at the White House this morning where this news emanated from, Jeff. What's going on?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, good morning. The Biden administration is coalescing around the argument and the idea that most Americans will need booster shots. Now, this is not going to come anytime soon in the coming days, so don't rush to your local pharmacy to get one, but they are reaching the idea that they believe that eight months after you received that first shot, most Americans should receive a booster shot once it is fully authorized by the FDA. Now, this is coming, of course, as this White House is dealing with so much more, particularly overseas. There is a question always are they trying to change the subject. That does not appear to be the case at the moment, because this essentially was first reported by the New York Times and confirmed by CNN that officials simply have reached this conclusion. But it must be recommended by the CDC. It must be recommended by the FDA after these drugs are fully authorized.

John, it would come in an order in which you first receive the shots. Health care workers will be first in line, seniors will be first in line, and this would not come until likely mid-September. So this is something that certainly is a major development, it certainly would affect so many Americans, but not coming at the moment, likely next month at the beginning, of course, if the FDA finally authorizes all these shots, John.

BERMAN: Yes. Look, you say this will affect many Americans. We're talking more than 150 million Americans who have been vaccinated at this point, most Americans at this point who have already been vaccinated will get on this cycle where they may very well be receiving a third shot as soon as next month. So it is big news.

Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thank you very much.

We should note, the WHO has been opposed to this notion. The World Health Organization has been opposed to the notion of booster shots in developed countries like the U.S. before people in many underdeveloped countries around the world get their first shot. We are going to speak to the WHO about this major development in just a moment.

KEILAR: And now to the urgent situation that is unfolding in Afghanistan, President Biden vowing devastating force against the Taliban if fighters interrupt the evacuation of Americans and its Afghan allies. More U.S. troops arriving overnight at the airport in Kabul, which has been the scene of desperation over a chaotic 24 hours.

And there is an extraordinary image that has emerged, and it appears to show hundreds of Afghans packed into this U.S. military cargo plane desperately attempting to flee Kabul after the fall of the capital to the Taliban. The situation is said to be much calmer this morning. We have seen that on the ground with our Clarissa Ward, after U.S. forces shot and killed two men who opened fire at the Kabul airport during the rush of people to escape.

BERMAN: Well, addressing the rapid fall of the Afghan government for the first time, the president admitted that the collapse unfolded more quickly than he anticipated, but he stood firmly behind his decision to withdraw U.S. troops. He promised to help Afghan allies escape but left many unanswered questions about how the U.S. can actually achieve that.

Former President George W. Bush, who brought the U.S. into the war almost 20 years ago, said he and the former first lady Laura Bush feel deep sadness over the events unfolding in Afghanistan. CNN's Clarissa Ward, who has been on the streets of Kabul, our Chief International Correspondent, is there again this morning with more. Clarissa, give us a sense of what you are seeing today. You know, yesterday was the first day of the so-called new Islamic Emirate. Today is the second day. What's the difference?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, the Taliban came out yesterday afternoon and basically told all government workers that they could return to their post today. So, for the first time, we saw traffic policemen out on the streets.

[07:05:03]

We saw markets, as you saw, we did the last live shot with you in a crowded market. There's a sense that there's more activity on the streets, more shops that are now open, more government workers going back to their post because the Taliban wants to show that it can govern, that it's not just a fighting force, but that they can keep the lights on.

And this is how they're doing it basically. I'm just going to step out of the shot. And you can maybe take a slightly closer look. These are Taliban fighters just behind me. They're on an old humvee. Those humvees traditionally associated here with the MDS, which is Afghanistan's equivalent of the CIA. You could see they're all quite keen to pose for the camera because they're in pretty good spirits right now. They see themselves as being the victors in all this, and they see this as an opportunity for them to project a new image on the world stage.

And I will say that in terms of the security situation, it's having an impact. The street s of Kabul are largely calm. That's partly because there are men like this on almost every other street corner, and it's also partly because people are petrified. I have been getting phone calls all morning nonstop, people who work for the U.N., people who work for the U.S. military, translators, NGO workers who are so desperately afraid now of what will happen next as the U.S. completes this round of evacuations, with chaos at the airport, what's their opportunity? What's their path out? What does their future look like? No answer to those questions at the moment, John and Brianna.

KEILAR: And what about, you know, after the U.S. Leaves? Because it is very interesting to see you today, to see you yesterday after the Taliban came in, you were there on the street. We are seeing what is happening. You mentioned that you actually have more freedom as you are there today than before the Taliban came in and was securing the area. But what do you think happens after the U.S. is out Afghanistan entirely?

WARD: Well, that remains to be seen, right? It's easy in the first days to strike a diplomatic conciliatory tone. It's easy to make offers of blanket amnesty, but the question becomes in the long-term, do you stick by those promises, or do we see retaliation attacks? Do we see revenge attacks? Do we see fighters going and raiding people's houses? The Taliban has come out multiple times and said that it will not allow its fighters to go out and conduct those kinds of searches. But that's not doing that much to assuage the concerns and fears that a lot of ordinary people here in Kabul whose memories of the Taliban are associated with a short spell of disastrous governance in the late 90s, in the early 2000s, and then 20 years of hideous bloodshed in the form of an insurgency.

The Taliban appear to acknowledge they know that people are frightened, they understand that. And that's why I think they're trying to project this image of being a more mature, pragmatic force, but, of course, that can only really be judged in the sort of mid to long-term. Right now, it's easy to say the right things, but in two weeks' time, what will the situation look like? That's a question that nobody right now can answer.

BERMAN: You know, Clarissa, what's going on behind you with the Taliban standing on that U.S.-made humvee is a metaphor, I mean, for the situation right now. How much equipment -- how much American equipment is around? Is it all in Taliban hands at this moment?

WARD: It's -- yes, it's all in Taliban hands. You literally you drive around this city, John, endless humvees, American assault rifles, American on and on and on and on. I mean, there has been so much weaponry, ammunition, equipment, hardware plundered from these U.S. bases that have been taken over from Afghan forces in the course of the last months, weeks, and, of course, days, and the Taliban is now in charge of all of that.

And you can see from these images behind me, they're very keen to show it off. They're enjoying this moment. They believe this is a victory from God and they want the world to see it. That's why for the moment, at least, they're being quite open and cordial to western journalists because they understand this is their way to get these images out to the world and to get their message out to the world.

KEILAR: I know that you've been talking to a number of Afghans including Afghan women, Clarissa. What are they telling you?

WARD: It depends where in the country, but here in Kabul and in many other city centers wherever you have educated women, wherever you have women who work, they're petrified.

[07:10:03]

They are absolutely petrified that they are on the precipice of losing everything that they have worked so hard for over the past two decades.

And I interviewed a woman this morning, an incredibly strong woman who's been working with a variety of international NGOs for years now, for a decade, and she's now here petrified with her two daughters, has no idea what will happen next, how she will get out. She's in complete hiding, won't leave her house, won't show her face. That's how scared she is. That's how desperate she is. Take a listen to what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is not easy for a person to work a lot with international organization, having more than ten years experience of working with international and now not one of them help me. Just sending emails to different organizations that I work with you, but now no response.

WARD: Are you angry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I'm not angry. But as a person that who worked with them, now I need their support. It is not fair.

WARD: You look very emotional as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, because I'm thinking about my future, my daughters. What will happen to them if they kill me, two daughters without mother?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WARD: And her story is a story of so many, as I said before, I've been inundated with calls and emails, people desperately looking for some kind of help. And the sense that I have from people other than the fear of the Taliban potentially coming to their homes, raiding their homes, attacking them, arresting them, there's also this sense of paralyzed. What do you do? How do you plan for a future when you can't plan the next two or three hours in advance?

And I asked that woman, I said what do you tell your daughters right now? And she said I can't tell them anything. I don't know what to tell them. I'm so upset, I can barely speak to them. I have to give them to my mother to look after because I can't look them in the eye and tell them that potentially their future has been taken away from them.

BERMAN: It's devastating. How can they know what their future will be five minutes from now, let alone five days from now?

Clarissa, again, these forces standing behind you, is this just preening, or are they actually guarding something? And what's their interaction with the people that we've seen out shopping on the streets, you know, do people just walk by them with their milk and nod their heads?

WARD: Pretty much, John, and that's the most surreal thing about it. Yesterday, we saw few people who would come up and pose for photographs, let them take selfies, shake their hands, today, though, it's almost like they're starting to become part of the fabric of life, which is bizarre to even contemplate. But particularly for some older people in the city, they've lived through the Taliban before.

And so while there's, of course, deep concerns primarily among younger people, there's also a sense of they're a known commodity, they've been around, Afghan people in Kabul have seen them in a governing position for years, albeit, 20 years ago, and so, yes, when we were in the market and we saw some Talibs going up and down patrolling, people didn't really look up much. They didn't really pay much mind. I asked the man who owned the burqa store, I said, are you frightened when the Taliban are coming here to patrol, not really because they're not giving us any trouble for now.

And this becomes, again, this question of, for now, the mood is relatively relaxed. It's relatively cordial. The men behind me, you can see, yes, they're preening. They're showing off. They're jubilant. They want the world to pay attention to them in this moment where they have emerged as victors. But how long does that spell of goodwill last? How long before we see the old creeping trends by which we've come to know and understand the Taliban returning. And that question nobody can answer.

KEILAR: Clarissa Ward, thank you so much for that report and all of your reporting this morning. We'll be checking back in with you at the top of the hour, live for us from Kabul.

And my next guest joined the army after September 11th, served in Afghanistan as a military intelligence officer and rose to the rank of captain, and he also served as Missouri's secretary of state before deciding to run for mayor of Kansas City, but then making headlines when he suddenly dropped out of the race revealing that he'd been suffering from post-traumatic stress and that he would be getting treatment for that.

Today, he serves as president of Veterans Community Project and is leading the organization's national expansion, and Jason Kander is joining us now.

[07:15:05]

Jason, thank you so much for being with us.

And, you know, let's talk about this because I think this is one of the big stories right now of what we're seeing happening in Afghanistan, and that is how veterans of this war are experiencing this.

JASON KANDER, PRESIDENT OF NATIONAL EXPANSION VETERANS COMMUNITY PROJECT: Yes, you know, I'm probably not the first guest to come on here who's an Afghan vet in the last few days and say that it's a mix of anger and sadness, but I think also you referenced post-traumatic stress. One of the big pieces of post-traumatic stress is a desire to exert control over every situation, over every emotion.

I mean, we learn when we're in a combat zone that if we can exert control over the situation, then we survive. And that instinct works for us there. Then you come home and your body and your brain want to exert control. And so to see what's happening in Afghanistan and to have no control over it is very difficult. And that's why I've tried to spend the last couple of days doing the only thing I can control, which is checking in on my battle buddies, people that I was there with, and just having those conversations. And so that's what I've told my fellow Afghan veterans to do, because it's certainly all we can do at this moment.

KEILAR: I know there are also so many veterans who are concerned right now for the Afghans that they served with, and they feel very helpless. I mean, you mentioned having control. They really can't do much, but they're trying. They're trying to get lists of at risk Afghans together. They're trying to see what NGOs and the U.S. government can do.

With the way this has been carried out, and I know you didn't agree with every word that the president said yesterday, but you said you also found his words reassuring, is there a moral injury to not the war writ large but this exit in particular?

KANDER: Yes. I mean, you know, it's interesting, for the longest time, I felt like -- a buddy of mine said to me, he said, you know, obviously, the Vietnam veterans and others had it really bad too, but at least their wars ended. And so for a long time, I thought about the fact that there was injury in the fact that you came home, and maybe like me, you came home, you left the service after a while and then the war didn't end, and there's a part of you that felt like what am I doing here? I should be there.

What I never really anticipated, even though, I mean, I knew that it would end with Kabul falling, I knew that ten years ago at least, there's a part of me that never anticipated just how injurious this would actually be. I've thought a lot about the friends I made in Afghanistan, the people that I worked with, and I actually don't even know if they've lived this long. I'd say probably half of them may have, but now I'm worried about those who have, and I'm worried about their families too.

And there's a tremendous guilt that goes with it, you know. I mean, I'm coaching a little league game tonight, and I think about the people who I worked with in Afghan government and the Afghan military who they're probably staying in their houses because, you know, look, right now the Taliban is putting on a good show for the rest of the world because they want all of us to be talking about whether it's a kinder, gentler new Taliban. But as soon as the cameras are gone, they're going to be the Taliban. And that is to say the only way they're going to keep any sort of uprising from happening in the country is to be as brutal and horrific and evil as they've always been. And that's the reality. That's what's going to happen.

KEILAR: And that is what's hitting so many veterans. And, you know, Jason from my military family to yours, I just want to say thank you. You've been doing so much to reach out to veterans to try to help them through this and counsel them and make sure they have the resources they need, and I know that I certainly appreciate it. Jason Kander, thank you.

KANDER: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Next, the Pentagon's press secretary joins us live as President Biden defends the administration's actions.

BERMAN: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta with us live to answer your questions on the news that the Biden administration will recommend booster shots for almost all Americans starting as soon as next month.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

BERMAN: President Biden defending his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan after the country's total collapse to the Taliban, and he is blaming the former Afghan leadership and military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I always promised the American people that I would be straight with you. The truth is this did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated. So what's happened? Afghanistan political leaders gave up and fled the country. The Afghan military collapsed. American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We're joined now by the Pentagon press secretary, John Kirby. Very nice to see you. Can you give us the latest from the airport in Kabul? What is the situation now?

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Air operations have resumed at the airport there in Kabul, John. Security is much better, although we are still working to make sure that that security can stay in a sustainable way over the course of today.

[07:25:03]

Military flights are coming in and out. In fact, over the last 24 hours, we've been able to flow in about a thousand more troops, bringing the total to roughly 3,500, as well as taking out about 700 to 800 individuals, 150 or more were American citizens just over the last 24 hours.

So, things back up and running. We're going to keep flowing forces in to make sure that we can ensure a safe and secure environment for operations at the airport.

BERMAN: So, 700 to 800 in the last 24 hours. How many people do you think you can get out a day?

KIRBY: Once we get a full up and running there, John, which means after we've done the force flow in, all the troops are in, and then we can just keep running military craft in and out. Just on the military craft alone, we believe we can get between 5,000 and 9,000 people out per day. Of course, some of that's weather dependent, obviously security dependent, but we have the capacity to literally move thousands per day once we get everybody on the ground, all the security troops that we need there and we can continue the flow of aircraft. And, John, that's just the military side. We want the civilian side of the airport to remain open as well, so commercial flights can and are now able to get themselves in and out as well as charter aircraft. So I'm just talking about the military side, we can move thousands per day. BERMAN: They can. Are any commercial or charter flights going in and out right now?

KIRBY: My understanding is that some commercial flight, absolutely, has resumed. I don't have a full picture exactly where we are this morning.

BERMAN: Listen, you said you have the ability or will have the ability to move 5,000 to 9,000 out a day. If I can get some specifics here, how many Americans do you believe to be in Afghanistan right now?

KIRBY: Well, We think there are certainly thousands of Americans. We don't have an exact count. I would say somewhere best guess between 5,000 and 10,000 that are near Kabul. There was a message put out by the secretary of -- I'm sorry the State Department today advising those Americans about how to queue up and how to get to the airport so that now that security is better, they don't need to necessarily shelter had in place, and they can begin movement to the airport for processing for flights out.

BERMAN: So, Americans can begin moving to the airport for processing for flights out?

KIRBY: They can.

BERMAN: What about Afghan allies? How many at this point do you feel are eligible for this withdrawal? Are we talking about some 18,000 who is SIV, special immigrant visa applications, are waiting? How high does that number go?

KIRBY: I think that's the number, the operative number that the State Department is dealing with right now, John. What I can tell you from our perspective, is that we're going to be able to make room at U.S. installations here in the continental United States, three bases for up to 22,000 people in the next couple of weeks. If we have to go more, higher than that, we'll certainly do that because we're not just talking about the special immigrant visa applicants themselves, but also their families. We're committed to their families as well.

BERMAN: 18,000 seem like a low number based on what we believe to be the need and the number of people and their families that helped the U.S. over the years. I mean, that number The Wall Street Journal gave a 50,000 number, but we could be talking about 100,000.

KIRBY: I don't know, I don't have an exact picture of how big the population should be. And we shouldn't get too fixated object special immigrant visa applicants there. The State Department is looking at other priority visas that could apply to other Afghans.

Look, John, bottom line is we have an obligation to these people who helped us over the last 20 years and we here at the Pentagon take that obligation seriously. We want to do everything we can to help our colleagues at the State Department, get these people on planes and get them to safety. BERMAN: So, the reason I've been asking about those numbers is just because of that. I want to understand how you're going to do that, because there are only so many people at the airport right now. There aren't 20,000 people at the airport right now. There aren't 5,000 to 10,000 Americans at the airport. They're at their homes either in Kabul or in the area. What is the plan to get these people to the airport?

KIRBY: First of all, from a military perspective, John, our focus is at the airport, right, security, stability at the airport so we can keep operations going. We're working hand in glove with the State Department in terms of supporting their plans at processing these individuals, but, again, that's something that we're going to be doing on a case by case, day by day basis.

Right now though, I don't want to set the expectation that we are equipped and able to go out into the countryside and physically move people into Kabul. Our focus right now, the troops that we have there are at the airport. The idea is to make sure we can get the air operations, not only have they resumed, but to keep them in place for as long as possible.

BERMAN: If they can't get to the airport, why does it matter if you have the capabilities to get them out of the airport?

KIRBY: John, I understand that. And we all understand that the security situation in Kabul is not ideal. Right now, the airport is open and people are able to get through the gates there. There's a processing process that actually has to occur. But right now, things are moving out of the airport and, again, our focus is on making sure that continues.

[07:30:00]

BERMAN: President Biden said yesterday, as we carry out this departure, we've made it clear to the Taliban if they attack our personnel or disrupt our operation, the --