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CNN Confronted by Taliban in Crowd Near Kabul Airport; Biden: Crisis Unfolding Not a Failure, Chaos was Inevitable. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 19, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:58:47]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Thursday, August 19. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

On this NEW DAY, we begin with breaking news in the race to evacuate thousands of American citizens and U.S. allies from Afghanistan as the Taliban solidifies its grip on the nation.

Taliban militants said to be intensifying their search for any Afghans who helped U.S. and NATO forces during the war, and they're threatening to capture or kill their families. This is according to a U.N. threat assessment document seen by the "New York Times." CNN is trying to independently obtain this document.

Also breaking just moments ago, Reuters is reporting that at least 12 people have been killed in and near the Kabul airport, where mayhem has been seen, crowds desperately trying to get into the grounds of the airport so they can get out of the country. It's the only way out.

According to Taliban and NATO sources, the victims were either killed by gunshots or stampedes.

New overnight, the White House tells CNN that 1,800 people were flown out of Kabul, the airport, in the last 24 hours on military transports. That's almost twice the number from the day before, but it's nowhere close to where they need to be or where the president himself suggested the U.S. should be.

There are at least 10,000 Americans still in Afghanistan and tens of thousands who worked with the U.S.

The U.S. embassy in Kabul warns it cannot ensure safe passage to the airport.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And in a new interview, President Biden says U.S. troops will remain in Afghanistan until all Americans are out, even if that means staying beyond the August 31 deadline for withdrawal.

However, he did not make the same commitment to Afghan allies, to Afghans who helped Americans in the war.

These scenes of desperation and chaos are unfolding across Afghanistan. The Taliban imposing a curfew over the entire eastern city of Khost today after protests broke out there.

Violent clashes are also taking place in the city of Jalalabad after Taliban forces attacked protesters who removed the Taliban flag from the main square and replaced it with the Afghan flag.

Let's go live now to Kabul and bring in CNN's chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward.

Clarissa, tell us how things have been there today.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we spoke to someone who was at the airport earlier this morning. He said that the crowds are just astonishing. Huge, huge amounts of people in the hundreds, if not the thousands, desperately trying to push themselves into the airport, despite the best efforts of all the various contingencies who are putting out protection in that area. They did also say, though, it's a little bit quieter, but that may have been on account of the fact that they went very early this morning.

We were there all day yesterday, as you know, and we were doing live shots from there. We're not trying to do that again today, because it was such a chaotic situation. And at a couple of points it was actually quite dangerous. Take a look at what we saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (voice-over): America's last foothold in Afghanistan is now guarded by the Taliban.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See, the Taliban are all over, and they won't allow anyone --

WARD: We've come to Kabul's airport to see the gauntlet people must pass through to fly out.

(on camera): You can hear gunshots every couple minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN. CNN. CNN.

WARD (voice-over): Quickly, we are accosted by an angry Taliban fighter.

(on camera): Can I ask you a question? Excuse me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says first --

WARD: Cover my face?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cover.

WARD: Cover my face. What is this? What is that?

He told me to cover my face, but he doesn't want to comment on that truncheon he's carrying.

(voice-over): The fighter tells us these chaotic scenes are the fault of America. "The cause of all this is America in Afghanistan. Look at these people," he says. "America is really acting unfairly towards them. Why are they lying and telling them that they can go to America? Why don't they let them stay and help their country?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn't want to talk to you.

WARD (on camera): OK. That's fine. All right.

(voice-over): We keep walking to avoid confrontation. A man follows us, asking for advice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How he can enter the plane?

WARD (on camera): How you can enter the base?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Because they are saying to emigrate (ph).

WARD: Do you have the paperwork to enter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WARD: Show me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To enter, no. But we have Internet, and they call on me.

WARD: Was this an Italian company?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Italian company.

WARD: OK, let's -- I don't want this guy to whip you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thank you. Thank you.

WARD (voice-over): Others crowd around us to show their documents.

Care Phoenix. You worked for Care Phoenix.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. A translator.

WARD: You were a translator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WARD: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see this? What we are doing.

WARD: So they're saying they all worked at American camps as translators for the Americans, and they can't get into that airport. These Taliban fighters are a little upset with us, so let's keep going.

(voice-over): We decide to leave and head for our car. The fighter takes the safety off his AK-47 and pushes through the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay behind him. Stay behind him.

WARD (on camera): You can see that some of these Taliban fighters, they're just hopped up on adrenaline or I don't know what. It's a very dicey situation.

(voice-over): Suddenly, two other Taliban charge towards us. You can see their rifle butt raised to strike producer Brent Swails. When the fighters are told we have permission to report, they lower their weapons and let us pass.

(on camera): OK. Now we're going. Get in the car.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[06:05:03]

WARD: Now, I do want to make the point that outside of the airport, it is calm in the capital, and the Taliban is really trying to put on that show for the international community and for the people of Afghanistan.

Today is Asura, which is a Shiite religious festival. They're making a big deal of how the Shiites are free to practice this religious celebration on the streets, and they're going to protect it.

We've also seen a sort of flash protest or parade in support of Afghan independence day, with a couple hundred people gathering in Kabul for a brief time holding up the Afghan flag.

The Taliban are saying you can fly any flag that you want. But as we've seen already, in other parts of the country, taking down the Taliban flag, putting up the Afghan flag has been met with bullets and violence from Taliban fighters.

So despite the best efforts of the Taliban's leadership to show a more conciliatory face, you are still seeing that fear, and you are still seeing that crush of people desperately trying to get out -- John, Brianna.

BERMAN: Clarissa, first of all, we again want to express our appreciation to you for working round the clock. And looking at that video you just showed us of your trip near and around the airport, it's illustrative of the situation for the thousands of Afghans who want to get out of the country now. If they want to get into the airport, they have to somehow get through that gauntlet, as you say.

And we're getting news this morning, "The New York Times" is reporting there's a U.N. threat assessment out there, where the Taliban is actually searching for people who may have helped the United States or the United Nations. This is just a dire situation for people who are promised that they would get safe passage.

WARD: It is a dire situation. And you have to appreciate, John, when you're watching that package, that piece that you just saw, we're western journalists. We're getting the VIP treatment here. OK. This is not the treatment that the scores of Afghans who've basically been camped outside that airport for days are getting. They're getting shot. They're getting whipped. OK?

We had, you know, a close call, and it was uncomfortable certainly and a little bit frightening, but for the people who are trying to get into that airport, they're literally risking life and limb.

And even if they get past the Taliban security there, trying to then get past British or U.S. forces because, if their paperwork isn't properly in order, if they don't have an appropriate chaperone, if they don't -- I mean, there's so many -- there's just a ream of hurdles that they have to cross in order to get out.

We have heard cases of people doing it, and I heard of one this morning, an Afghan interpreter for the U.S. military who managed to get out, sent a picture of him and his family inside the airport hangar. So there are cases of it.

But when you think that you need, potentially, to evacuate tens of thousands of people, 50, 60,000 people, a trickle managing to get in every day is just not going to cut it. The system is broken. And it needs to be reworked.

KEILAR: And we're seeing, actually, a picture of a video where children, a baby, is being passed forward toward the security perimeter there at the airport. It is -- I don't know what you can -- what light you can shed on that kind of scene that we've been seeing, Clarissa.

But I also want to see if you can tell us a little bit about -- it's actually mostly men that we are seeing who are evacuating. It makes sense, because it's men who were the translators and the cultural advisers. But their families, too, should be eligible. Where -- where are the women who are eligible, perhaps, to evacuate?

WARD: I mean, you have to ask yourself what kind of a man or what kind of a woman -- what kind of a man is going to bring his wife and children into that tornado of insanity outside the airport?

KEILAR: Yes.

WARD: I mean, it takes a lot of guts. And there's such a lack of certainty that you're even able to get in.

We have seen and heard these reports, and our British colleagues who are staying in the area where the British paratroopers are, have heard and spoken directly to British soldiers who say that they have seen people so desperate that they are passing and throwing their babies over the razor wire to try to get them into safety.

I mean, I can't even fathom what level of desperation an individual needs to be at where they are literally throwing their baby over razor wire to get them to safety.

But I think that that very clearly speaks to is the panic. The lack of clear information. The rumor mill is in overdrive. There's hysteria. You have Taliban fighters with whips, with guns. You have U.S. and U.K. soldiers who are not allowing people in. You have mixed messaging coming through about what kind of paperwork you need and how you can get on flight and where you can go. I mean, it is just an absolute mess.

[06:10:07]

And we heard President Biden say yesterday in his comments to ABC News that this is not a failure. And I think a lot of people outside that airport, particularly those taking the kinds of extreme actions we're just talking about, would like to know if this isn't failure, what does failure look like, exactly?

KEILAR: Yes. I think it's a very, very good point. Clearly. this is not what the U.S. planned for, Clarissa. And I wonder -- you know, you speak about that interview that -- that President Biden gave. We're certainly awaiting more of it, as well.

We want to play some of that, where he spoke about these efforts to get Americans and also Afghan allies out of Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: All troops are supposed to be out by August 31. Even if Americans and our Afghan allies are still trying to get out, they're going to leave?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to do everything in our power to get all Americans out and our allies out.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Does that mean troops will stay beyond August 31 if necessary?

BIDEN: Depends on where we are and whether we can get -- ramp these numbers up to 5 to 7,000 a day coming out. If that's the case, they'll all be out.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Because we've got, like, 10 to 15,000 Americans in the country right now, right? And are you committed to making sure that the troops stay until every American who wants to be out --

BIDEN: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- is out?

BIDEN: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How about our Afghan allies? We have about 80,000 people --

BIDEN: Well, that's not --

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's too high?

BIDEN: That's too high. STEPHANOPOULOS: How high?

BIDEN: The estimate we're giving is somewhere between 50 and 65,000 folks total, counting their families.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Does the commitment hold for them, as well?

BIDEN: The commitment holds to get everyone out that, in fact, we can get out, and everyone should come out. And that's the objective. That's what we're doing now. That's the path we're on. And I think we'll get there.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So Americans should understand that troops may have to be there beyond August 31?

BIDEN: No, Americans are to understand that we're going to try to get it done before August 31.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But if we don't, the troops will stay?

BIDEN: If we don't, we'll determine at the time who's left.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And --

BIDEN: And if there are American forces -- if there's American citizens left, we're going to stay until we get them all out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: What are you hearing in that, Clarissa? What are you not hearing in that?

WARD: Well, I'm hearing that there seems to be an intention to do right by Afghan allies and try to get them out, the tens and tens of thousands. He said 50 to 80 sounded like a high number. I mean, hard to say, I guess. But let's -- it's certainly in the tens of thousands.

But he didn't really offer that absolute commitment that this was going to be done with U.S. troops on the ground. And I think that's what will worry a lot of people here, especially those people who are waiting outside the airport, that if U.S. troops leave the minute that Americans are evacuated, where does that leave the tens of thousands who haven't been able to evacuate?

And you heard President Biden say that he wanted to try to get that number up to something like 5,000 people being evacuated every day. Well, yesterday reportedly was 1,800. So, there is still a ways to go before we are anywhere close to that number of 5,000.

I don't know what that means in terms of how long this thing drags out. But all I would say is, based on what we saw yesterday, the longer it drags out, the higher there is a chance of some kind of real clash or conflagration at the airport. I mean, we've already seen more than a dozen people, according to Reuters, have been killed, either shot or killed in a stampede at the airport. How long is that sustainable for? KEILAR: Yes. We're seeing the bar lowered. John Kirby of the Pentagon

told us 5 to 9,000 here a couple days ago. Then you're hearing 5,000.

Joe Biden is saying that 80,000 is high. It's more like 50, 65. But if you hear from other estimates, they actually think that's low.

So, look, the question remains at this point how many people can they get out? Can they even meet their lower goal now?

We know that you'll be keeping an eye on that, as well. Clarissa, thank you so much for your critical reporting from Kabul. We really appreciate it.

President Biden also said the chaos that we're all seeing in Kabul was inevitable, but that is not the message that he himself has been sending since announcing the U.S. withdrawal. We're going to discuss that next.

We're also seeing heartbreaking scenes from the evacuations, along with moments of compassion. The story behind this photo that has

gone viral.

BERMAN: And an unvaccinated married couple, they died hours apart from coronavirus. We'll speak with the man who took in their children. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:19:04]

BERMAN: Hours from now, President Biden will receive a closed briefing on the situation in Afghanistan from his national security team. The president tells ABC News in this brand-new interview that he stands by his decision to withdraw U.S. Troops and that the chaos that ensued was unavoidable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Back in July, you said a Taliban takeover was highly unlikely. Was the intelligence wrong, or did you downplay it?

BIDEN: I think there was no consensus. If you go back and look at the intelligence reports, they said that it was more likely to be some time by the end of the year.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You didn't put a time line out when you said it was highly unlikely. You said it was highly unlikely the Taliban would take over.

BIDEN: Yes. Well, the question was, whether or not -- what -- the idea that the Taliban would take over was premised on the notion that the -- somehow, the 300,000 troops we had trained and equipped was going to just collapse; they were going to give up. I don't think anybody anticipated that.

[06:20:03]

STEPHANOPOULOS: We've all seen the pictures. We've seen those hundreds of people packed into a C-17. We've seen Afghans falling --

BIDEN: That was four days ago, five days ago.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you first saw those pictures?

BIDEN: What I thought was we have to gain control of this. We have to move this more quickly. We have to move in a way in which we can take control of that airport. And we did.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don't think this could have been handled, this actually could have been handled better in any way? No mistakes?

BIDEN: No. I don't think it could have been handled in a way that -- we're going to go back in hindsight and look, but the idea that somehow, there's a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don't know how that happens. I don't know how that happened.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So for you that was always priced into the decision?

BIDEN: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Joining us now, CNN political analyst and "New York Times" Washington correspondent Maggie Haberman; and CNN political analyst David Gregory, who covered the presidency of George W. Bush, including the 2001 order to invade Afghanistan.

David, it seems to me there are two things are going on here. No. 1 is to manage the very real crisis that exists at this moment on the ground in Afghanistan, getting thousands of Americans, tens of thousands of Afghans out. And then also simultaneously, managing the perception of how they have handled it and they are handling it. So, how's the White House doing on both fronts?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's a struggle because of the images we're seeing every day and developments that appear to be beyond America's control on the ground. When we have, it seems to me, a very keen interest in getting out not just Americans but those Afghans who cooperated with the United States over these past 20 years. That has been our obligation. That has been our priority. And that's not happening yet.

And I think the president made a mistake by not preparing the American people for what could have been this reality. You know, you put some high bars out there, saying particularly that, you know, as you heard in the interview, as George Stephanopoulos pressed him. That, you know, you said it wasn't going to be likely. It was unlikely the Taliban would come back quickly like this.

And two, he said this is not going to be any kind of withdrawal like you saw in the final days of Vietnam. Both of those things have proven to be untrue.

And that's what the president is facing now, is a situation on the ground that he doesn't have a handle on. And the military saying they're not even certain they can get everybody out who they want to get out.

KEILAR: Maggie, what did you think of what we heard from Biden in this interview?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there were a couple of different things, Brianna, that stood out to me. And in one, look, he admitted that there was no -- (AUDIO GAP) -- intelligence community. We have seen the fact that -- (AUDIO GAP) of pointing to other aspects of --

KEILAR: I think -- you know, Maggie, I think -- Maggie, we're going to go back to David. We're having a problem with your connection. We're going to redial it, because I definitely want to hear what you have to say. So we're going to get back to you here in just a moment.

But I wonder, you know, David, what else stood out to you as you see -- I mean, it seems like the bar keeps getting lowered. How many people can get out; how many people can get out per day.

GREGORY: Well, and I think what Maggie was beginning to break up -- bring up there was this insistence that there wasn't an intelligence failure.

The bottom line is there could have been a better extraction plan. It's impossible to believe that people didn't think things could melt really quickly.

You know, we have seen for 20 years a history of corruption and failure on the part of an Afghan government and military that couldn't secure the country from the Taliban without serious American fire power.

So, at this point, you know, to your point, I think there's two standout questions. What is the number? What is the threshold for when America says, That's it. We're done. Whatever chaos ensues, we're going to wash our hands of it, because we're getting out.

And then the other big forward-leaning question is what is America prepared to do going forward? If the Taliban becomes what it was. If Afghanistan becomes what it was, which is a failed state that could be fertile ground for a terrorist organization to take root and ultimately harm the United States or our allies. That was the original proposition of why we went into Afghanistan, to root the Taliban in the first place.

BERMAN: There was some pretty nuanced word choice from the president when George was pressing him on exactly what would get U.S. troops to stay past August 31.

Maggie, if you're back with me, if you can hear that question right now.

HABERMAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Look, the president seemed to suggest definitely the U.S. will stay after August 31 if there are still Americans there. But there will be an at-the-moment assessment if it's the U.S. allies. In other words, Afghans who helped the Americans there. That's a big difference.

HABERMAN: Right.

BERMAN: And it puts -- it puts a lot of pressure on the administration to justify why they would be getting out if there's still tens of thousands of people who have been promised help from the United States who can't get out.

[06:25:14]

HABERMAN; It does, John. And look, one of the things the administration has said is the reason that they did not start these evacuations much earlier, both of Americans and of U.S. allies who have been helping the U.S. in Afghanistan for a very long time, was because this would have basically accelerated what we saw in recent days.

There is no way to know whether that is definitely true or not. But it now means they find themselves in this position where they are scrambling.

Look, we know the administration did not want to extend anything past that August 31 deadline. So it was a striking concession by Biden. But to your point, it is just kicking the can down the road on another crisis they're going to have to face, which is a lot of criticism over not helping Afghans who are stuck in the country.

And you had asked before, and I'm sorry I started to answer; there were technical problems. What I made of that interview, what I made of it is that, among other things, is that Biden continues to be very, very defensive about, you know, not -- showing he's -- he's standing by his resolve in the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan. There are people who are critical of that policy choice.

But that's not really where a lot of criticism has been and certainly not from Democrats. It's been about the very chaos we saw that he says was unavoidable. But as David said, he did not make that clear in his public statements.

And he has shown, which has been very surprising for somebody whose, you know, political identity is about empathy, he has been very -- there's been a sort of coldness as he has talked about this situation. It is possible to do both. It is possible to say, here are my reasons why I want to be out of Afghanistan.

And he has been consistent about that for a long time, not forever but for a long time. And also express some sympathy for what is happening on the ground there and some accuracy in describing what is happening on the ground there. Because what keeps happening is the administration is saying things, and then we see Clarissa's reporting and other reporting like it. And it doesn't match what they're saying.

KEILAR: Yes. What do you attribute that to, Maggie? Because, you know, if you measure the Biden, the tone that we see recently in this interview and here in recent days to Biden himself, there's -- it's almost a callousness, compared to how we've heard him communicate before.

HABERMAN: There has just been, for whatever reason, an inability to sort of move away from answering defensively questions about why he made this decision and how this decision went down, and to turn the focus back onto troops, U.S. allies, Afghans who are helping the U.S. And talk about this in more human terms. He's been speaking about it in pretty starkly cold military terms.

And it's -- look, I think that he has -- he is not the most agile politician. You know, it's regrettable when we end up talking about these circumstances in truly political terms. But it's not as if the White House is immune to politics.

It has been surprising, and I don't think that that interview went well for the White House. I think they know that. I think they have been trying to avoid having him ask -- answer questions with a group of reporters. I don't know how long they'll be able to put that off.

BERMAN: Maggie Haberman, David Gregory, thanks to both of you.

GREGORY: Thanks.

BERMAN: Coming up, an alarming warning from the CDC about this latest coronavirus surge and the impact on children.

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KEILAR: And the fight over wearing masks in school turning ugly as tempers flare.

BERMAN: And be sure to join CNN this weekend for We Love New York City, the homecoming concert, Saturday starting at 5 p.m. Eastern, exclusively on CNN.

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