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Biden Denies Failure In Afghanistan, Says. U.S. Controls Airport; U.S. Recommends Booster Shot Eight Months After Second Dose; Tempers Flare Over Masks In School Board Meetings In Several States. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 19, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, ABC ANCHOR, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA," ABC HOST, "THIS WEEK": -- stay beyond August 31st if necessary.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It depends on where we are and whether we can get -- ramp these numbers up to 5,000 to 7,000 a day coming out. If that's --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's discuss what we've just learned -- these new parts of this interview done by George Stephanopoulos.

Shamila, to you first. What stands out to you?

SHAMILA CHAUDHARY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER ON PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN: Well, I think it's clear the president is digging in. He feels very certain about his decision. He's known for a long time that there are no good options.

And so, what I'm reading in between the lines is that the United States is telling the world we are going to be pursuing an extremely minimalist foreign policy approach to Afghanistan. And we can expect that approach to extend to the rest of the region in the future. But in the weeks and days to come, I think we can expect them to continue to just focus on the security and safety of American citizens.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: David.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I -- one thing that's stunning to me is the missed empathy moment, which is a rare thing in a Joe Biden interview. He doesn't often miss moments to express empathy.

And when George Stephanopoulos talks to him about the images that we've seen of the packed military aircraft or Afghans running on the runway, he just -- he -- I mean, despite his sort of being defensive there in a moment, he also then just said well, I thought -- we have to get our arms around this and get this right. There was no sort of classic Joe Biden moment of empathizing with that experience of that person running, hanging onto a plane on the runway, which normally, Joe Biden does.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I'm kind of surprised as well and I have been throughout, really, all of this just given that he touted himself as the foreign policy president and he had decades of experience. It is something -- especially when it comes to Afghanistan, this is something that his aides cite all the time.

His refusal to acknowledge that this has not gone the way they expected or has gone in a -- in a positive manner -- this drawdown has not been smooth, it has not been orderly as he had been assuring people since April that it would be, is kind of surprising to me. Especially if you look back to his town hall that he did with Don Lemon in July when he said I'm going to level with the American people and if I make a mistake I will be straight with you and I will tell you. And if I think I did the right thing I'll tell you, too.

And when you talk to people inside this White House, privately, no one thinks this has gone the way that they wanted it to. Now, they will defend how they've responded and how they've handled it, and how things could be surprising, but his saying there that this wasn't a failure and saying that there is no way this could have happened without complete chaos is really surprising to me.

You know, he said he would do something. He said he would acknowledge mistakes. He's not acknowledging a mistake.

BERMAN: The -- there are a couple of things in there that jumped out at me as actually pieces of new information or new statements from President Biden.

Number one, while he has, in a way, blamed the situation left to him by former President Trump for the decisions that he made, he just told George that he would have pulled all U.S. troops out anyway or worked to do it anyway. That's pretty interesting given that in his previous statements, including the paper statements, he made clear that he felt he was forced into part of this by decisions from the Trump administration.

The other thing he said there, which I think is going to raise a lot of questions, is the idea that he can't recall ever being told by military leaders that the United States should leave in a contingent of 2,500 or a small group of troops. Now, I don't know if he's splitting hairs there because it's not often people tell a President of the United States you're wrong -- you should do exactly this.

But based on our reporting, it certainly seems there are senior members of the military who expressed that the United States might be in an advantageous -- a more advantageous position if they left in several thousand troops there.

And just finally, what I see here is a president who is -- who's hung up on the decision itself, who is convinced he made the right decision to do it -- to withdraw U.S. troops but still can't seem to hear the questions about what is happening on the ground now. And it's what's happening now where lives hang in the balance -- David.

CHALIAN: I think your third point, John, is tied to your first point. The reason I think he said that he would still have moved forward as president irrespective of the Trump policy -- pulling all troops out -- is because of how committed he was to this notion of ending America's longest war, of bringing all the troops home, of not handing this on to yet a fifth American president to deal with. That is where he is most comfortable and, quite frankly, it's where he's aligned with the American people on this as well.

So that's part of why I think you saw him say that part about irrespective of the Trump policy, he was eventually -- he was going to pull everything out. I think maybe the timeline could have been, perhaps, a little different.

[07:35:09]

And, John, I think your second point is so critical because I think we heard Joe Biden say two different things. He said to his recollection, nobody told him -- nobody from his military advisers told him, Mr. President, you should keep 2,500 troops in there. But just moments before that, he said the advice was split.

CHAUDHARY: Yes.

CHALIAN: Well then, what -- we need to know what is the split because it would -- it would seem that maybe in that split of advice he got somebody was telling him a different option than pulling everything out.

So those two things didn't seem, even though they were within seconds of each other, to go quite together.

CHAUDHARY: But can I just add this is not a new Joe Biden. We have heard Joe Biden as senator and as vice president be critical about the war in Afghanistan. He had always wanted to get out. He had always wanted to focus purely on a counterterrorism mission. He was always looking at the military guidance with a certain amount of suspicion.

And during my time at the White House, we had always anticipated for the possibility that once we left we would have to characterize what was happening in the country as something that was domestic and up to the Afghan people to sort out, which I think intellectually is still accurate. Intellectually, we should withdraw.

However, the -- I take issue with the methodology and the mechanics of the withdrawal, which I think we can all agree on has been a failure.

COLLINS: Right. That's the White House and the president keep going back to why they are withdrawing, which I think we all get. We've all known for a long time this is his position. The questions that even Democrats in Congress have is over how this has happened.

In regards to what he said about the military, we reported back in April when he finalized this decision and he announced if that there were top military officials who said they did believe that they should continue the presence a little bit longer. They did not think it should happen this quickly, this rapidly. One of those was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Milley, who had advocated for this.

And the White House even confirmed this at the time because they were asked is this a decision where the president is overruling members -- top brass at the Pentagon. And they said essentially that he asked for a non-sugar-coated viewpoint from his top aides on this. And so, confirming, essentially, that there had been differing viewpoints over how this should proceed. And so, we do know that was a factor that played into all of this.

KEILAR: Yes. In fact, of all the presidents who have presided over this war, he may be the first one who did fully overrule some of the military advice that he got. That is the sort of narrative coming out of this.

Thank you so much. You know, as we're trying to piece together so much at this critical moment, it's so wonderful to have your perspectives on this, Shamila, Kaitlan, and David.

So, as for the president's other focus, the administration is now advising COVID vaccine booster shots for all Americans who are 12 and older, and this will be eight months after they get their second shot. Health officials cited three separate studies that show the vaccine's protection drops over time.

So joining me now for more on this is U.S. Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Sir, thank you so much for being with us on this.

OK, first things first before I ask about this booster. How much drop in protection are we talking about over time?

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL (via Skype): Well, good morning. It's good to be with you, as well.

A few things I would say.

Number one, the drop in protection that we're seeing is against mild to moderate disease. Now, a really important distinction here because the protection that we see from the vaccines against the worst of COVID -- hospitalizations, severe disease, and death -- that remains strong. And that is why people who are fully vaccinated today should still feel good. It's why we don't think you need to go out and get a booster today.

But using our clinical judgment, our feeling is that this trend in decline in protection will continue over the months ahead and may extend, actually, to a reduction in protection against those severe outcomes. And that's what we want to be ahead of.

And that's why yesterday, we announced a plan on September 20th to start boosting people who are at their eight-month mark after their second dose. And this will be contingent on the FDA's full review of the safety and efficacy of a third does, as well as the CDC's advisory committee's review and recommendations. KEILAR: So how do you do this? How do you roll this out, assuming

federal regulators give you the go-ahead on this?

MURTHY: So there are a few things. It starts, number one, with communicating with people to let them know there's a plan in advance, and that's what we did yesterday. But yesterday was also important because we had always been telling people that we are looking closely at the data to see if there would be a reduction in protection, recognizing that for most vaccines there's a reduction in protection over time and we need to think about when to boost.

But we had also said to people when we see a signal we will tell you. And that's what yesterday was. It was making good on that commitment.

The other things that we are going to be doing, though, over the next few weeks is working closely with state and local partners, and to set up, and the right distribution mechanisms. Thankfully, we already have so much of that infrastructure set up in more than 80,000 pharmacies with vaccine.

[07:40:09]

We have more and more doctors' offices around the country that are carrying vaccine and can deliver them to patients. We have experience setting up mobile units and other infrastructure to make access easy but we're going to continue to expand that.

And finally, we're going to work also on ensuring that this is done in an equitable way. We've already laid out a pathway through which the most vulnerable people will get vaccinated first. The people who, in fact, began our vaccine effort -- the elderly, healthcare workers, and particularly, those in long-term care facilities. Those individuals will be prioritized based on their anniversary schedule.

KEILAR: OK. So we had reported that 99.99 percent of people who are fully vaccinated are not in a hospital. Are you still seeing that, or are any of these folks in the hospital challenging that previous fact?

MURTHY: Well, overall -- again, the protection from -- against hospitalization and death remains high if you're fully vaccinated, but vaccines are not 100 percent. So, are there going to be individuals who have breakthroughs and in some rare cases even breakthrough hospitalizations and death? Yes, that will happen with any vaccine. But thankfully, it is far more rare compared to the deaths and hospitalizations that are happening among the unvaccinated, which tells us the vaccines are still working at the highest level.

We need to make sure that continues to be the case. We want people to know that the protection they have today from the vaccines will be there tomorrow, and that's the purpose of the boosters.

KEILAR: And so, vaccines for kids under 12 -- I think we're sort of expecting nine to 12, six to nine, three to six to kind of go back. You can correct me if it's going to be rolled out in a different way than that. When are we going to see vaccines for children younger than 12 approved? MURTHY: Well, Brianna, it depends a bit on how the trials go and how quickly the companies get the data to the Food and Drug Administration. But once they do that I can tell you this. The COVID- 19 vaccine reviews are the top priority for the FDA and they will move quickly to make sure that a thorough review is done, but that it's done on the fastest feasible time schedule because we all want to protect our kids.

You know, I've got kids under 12 who are not vaccinated because they're not eligible yet. I want a vaccine for my children as well.

They just want to make sure that's done in a way that people are assured that there is -- that these vaccines are, in fact, safe and effective for their kids.

So again, as soon as they get the data from the companies and the trials are underway, they will review it. It is possible that we may have vaccines for under 12s before the end of the calendar year. That's certainly what I'm hoping for and it's certainly what we will work toward.

KEILAR: Before the end of the calendar year.

You know, talking about kids in school, some of them are already in school. Some will be going to school here in the coming weeks.

And Florida's Gov. Ron DeSantis says that choosing whether or not to quarantine what he called a healthy child after a possible COVID exposure in school should rest with the parent. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: I don't think to say anyone that was in, like, a hallway or in a classroom -- that they, even if they're healthy, should be sent home. I think quarantining healthy kids deprives these kids of an ability to get an education. Now, maybe a parent would want a healthy kid to be quarantined if there's an exposure, but I think that should be the choice of the parent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think about that, and how should schools approach this?

MURTHY: Well, when it comes to our schools, I think there's nothing more important than keeping our children safe, and that's got to be our top priority. We've got to use science and public health to guide us in that.

And what the science tells us, clearly, is a few things. It tells us that if our kids are old enough to be vaccinated, that that's a powerful pathway to reduce their chances of getting sick or spreading to others. It tells us also that masks work to reduce the spread of infection. And the science tells us that tried and true methods, like contact

tracing, like isolation and quarantine when required, like improved ventilation, regular testing -- these are all the layers of precaution that we can take to reduce the risk to our children.

And when we know that -- when the science directs us to that, those are the kind of measures we should be putting in place.

Now -- and that's the approach I see many schools taking, which is good. But I worry very much, Brianna, about the places -- the counties and the states where schools are being blocked from taking evidence- based scientific prevention measures. Because we have a moral obligation to follow the science and keep our children safe because it's not just about our child's health, it's about the kid -- health of the other kids in the school. We do not want our kids getting sick, but we also don't want them putting other children at risk.

[07:45:00]

We've got to take a community approach to this and we've got to recognize that we've got to get through this together and take care of each other. And the scientific public health approaches have shown us that the best way to do that is to follow these layers of precaution that we have been talking about for the last many months.

KEILAR: Thank you so much, Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy, for joining us this morning.

MURTHY: Thank you so much, Brianna. Take care.

KEILAR: Take care, as well.

Tempers flaring at school board meetings in several states over mask mandates. We'll take you there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Polls show an overwhelming majority of Americans support mask requirements in schools. So when you hear there's a giant debate over it, it's really not as divided as some would have you believe. Now, there is a vocal, angry minority over the idea that schools and towns should make the decisions on masks.

[07:50:00]

School leaders in Hillsborough County, Florida issued new mask requirements after a pretty raucous meeting that lasted hours.

CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro is live in Tampa with the details. What did you see, Evan?

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as you mentioned, what's surprised about this is that this debate is continuing even after school has started.

I'm in the seventh-largest district in America -- that's Hillsborough County. Behind me is an elementary school.

I talked to a mother there yesterday who showed me a text message coming in from the school saying hey, a kid here has COVID. We've had to quarantine kids. That's happened to kids all over this district and yet, here in Florida, people are debating masks and the very mitigation strategies needed to try and slow this spread down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): The battle over masks rages on in Florida as three more school boards vote to implement mask mandates for students.

Overnight, Palm Beach County School Board defied Gov. Ron DeSantis' order against requiring masks, passing a mask mandate for students by a vote of six to one. Florida's largest school district, Miami-Dade County, also passing a similar measure seven to one, with no option for parents to opt out.

PROTESTERS FOR AND AGAINST MASK MANDATE: Mask off! Mask off!

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Protests advocating for and against the mask mandate intensifying outside the building as the school board debated for hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not a drill. We are in a pandemic right now. Please amend A-17 (ph) and make masks mandatory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're forcing the mask, you're assaulting parents, you're assaulting children.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Hillsborough County, Florida school board also voting to enforce a similar mask mandate for students.

Protesters against the mandate yelling at our CNN crew while we were interviewing one concerned mother.

STEPHANIE KALTENBAUGH, MOM: It's disrespectful.

PROTESTER: (INAUDIBLE).

KALTENBAUGH: It's disrespectful to our children.

PROTESTER: (INAUDIBLE). CNN has (INAUDIBLE).

KALTENBAUGH: It's disrespectful to my kids who can't get vaccinated because they're not old enough.

PROTESTER: (INAUDIBLE).

KALTENBAUGH: And it's really, really upsetting that we have people like that disrespecting --

PROTESTER: People like this from (INAUDIBLE).

KALTENBAUGH: -- people who just want to protect our kids' health. MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Nearly 1,500 students and more than 500 teachers have tested positive for coronavirus in Hillsborough County. And more than 10,000 students are quarantining.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are surrendering our children to a pandemic of sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): Even given these alarming figures, DeSantis said this about students quarantining.

DESANTIS: I think quarantining healthy kids deprives these kids of an ability to get an education. Now, maybe a parent would want a healthy kid to be quarantined if there's an exposure, but I think that should be the choice of the parent.

PROTESTERS: Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): The tension over masks boiling over in other states, too.

PROTESTERS: No more masks! No more masks!

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): In Louisiana, a state school board meeting was forced to adjourn after it descended into chaos during a debate over masks. And in Texas, a parent ripped a face mask off a teacher's face.

TOM LEONARD, EANES INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, AUSTIN, TEXAS: At least respect the person who is wearing the mask. But they are on the frontlines of teaching kids during a pandemic. Let's give them a little space and a little grace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Now, John, we are in the school year. I mean, this is the second school year we've had during this pandemic. People know how this works at this point. And the difference this time is this Delta variant that here in Florida is putting thousands of kids in isolation as the school year begins -- just a few days into it.

Yet, yesterday, talking about this battle between the governor and these major counties here in this state, Miami-Dade County passing that mask mandate in violation of the governor's order, in defiance of the governor. The governor telling CNN forced masking of all schoolchildren is not consistent with protecting parents' right to make health and education decisions for their own children.

So now, moving forward, parents just don't know what's going to happen. The school boards have made the decision. The masks are on in places like here in Hillsborough County. But in the coming days, the governor might come in and change that again.

All this debate happening while kids are actually in school around other kids who may or may not have COVID -- John.

BERMAN: Evan McMorris-Santoro, terrific reporting. And again, just a reminder this is not the controversy that the shouting might have you believe. A majority -- a comfortable majority of Americans supports the idea of masks in schools.

And a --

KEILAR: A programming -- a programming note.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

KEILAR: I will. I'm going to go. I'm going to tell you all about it, Berman.

Join CNN this weekend for "WE LOVE NYC: THE HOMECOMING CONCERT," Saturday, starting at 5:00 p.m. eastern. That is exclusively on CNN.

And NEW DAY continues right now.

[07:59:13]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. It is Thursday, August 19th.

And the breaking news, brand-new remarks from President Biden released just moments ago. The president is now claiming his military advisers never told him that leaving troops on the ground in Afghanistan to facilitate -- never told him that he should leave troops on the ground in Afghanistan to make sure that a withdrawal was less chaotic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The threshold question was do we commit to leave within the timeframe we've set -- we extended it to September first -- or do we put significantly more troops in? I hear people say, well, you had 2,500 folks in there and nothing was happening. You know, there wasn't any war. But guess what? The fact was that --