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Hospitals Not Giving Organ Transplants to Unvaccinated Patients; September Jobs Report; A Look at CNN's Film "Diana." Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 08, 2021 - 08:30   ET



DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN ANCHOR: Who are not vaccinated, not get the same level of care. And I don't -- I haven't seen a single hospital system that's saying that.

Transplant patients are different. I mean they're often required to be vaccinated against all sorts of different diseases, Hep B, MMR, things like that. You get a transplant, and then you're going to go on immunosuppressive drugs. So if you haven't been vaccinated against something, you have a much higher chance of actually contracting the disease that you could have been vaccinated against. And that could -- that could potentially waste an organ transplant.

What the University of Colorado has said is basically there's about a 20 percent higher chance of dying if you've not been vaccinated, subsequently receive an organ transplant, you know, and that's what's really driving this.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I just learned something. I didn't realize there were those protocols around organ transplants in general with vaccines, but it makes tremendous sense now that you say that.

So you're a television star. Really a worldwide media star.

GUPTA: That's why I'm here with you.

BERMAN: It goes beyond television. And you were on "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" last night.


BERMAN: I want to play a little clip of that.


STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": When you were here in June, well, it felt like things were going in the right direction.


COLBERT: OK. And -- and now I don't know what direction we're going in. I'm a little turned around because I knew that delta would come in and there would be a surge. Where -- how -- what -- what's going on?

GUPTA: You know, I've often thought about the -- the country as my own patient. I think that's just how I think about things. And I think, if I was talking to the family of the patient, I would say, the patient is still in the intensive care unit, but we are getting ready to maybe move the patient out of the ICU on to the general care floor.


GUPTA: Yes, I mean, you know, that -- that's sort of been my -- my -- the -- I guess just as a doc how I thought about things. And, you know, I heard the surgeon general earlier say cautiously optimistic. You look for all sorts of signals here. I look to, you know, countries around the world, which I guess are other patients who are ahead of the trajectory and see how they're doing and just throughout time how patients have done in this situation. And I am optimistic. I mean it's been a really tough road. The patient has gone through periods where I thought the patient might not even survive. And the way to get here, to this level of immunity, is that so many patients got sick. You know, we see these -- we see these numbers coming down now. I hope we don't forget that hospitals -- many places are still very full and at times they've been overwhelmed, including my hospital. We didn't have to get this level of recovery this way, but here we are. And hopefully it stays down now.

BERMAN: Let's get out of it.

GUPTA: Let's get out of it.

BERMAN: Sanjay, I really appreciate you being here. Nice it see you, as always.

GUPTA: You too, John. Take care.

BERMAN: So just in to CNN, the critical September jobs report. What do the numbers tell us? That's next.



BERMAN: Hot off the presses, a brand-new jobs report. A look at the state of the economy.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans with the new details.

What does it say?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: All right, let me just run through the top line numbers for you here, John, because it's a real brain teaser.

And 194,000 net new jobs added. Way less, way less than anybody expected and less than last month and the worst of the year. But the unemployment rate fell to 4.8 percent. Remember, in this data there are two surveys the government does. It calls businesses and says, how are you hiring? What are your numbers? And it calls households and says, are you working?

So the household side of this equation is more people were saying, hey, yes, I did get a job this month. That could be new business creation. That could be people not going back to their old employer but starting their own job. We'll have to see how that pans out.

Here's what the year looks like. Again, a disappointing net job creation in September. But August and July were both revised higher. What that tells us, there was a hiring boom this summer before the delta variant was a big problem again. There was a lot of optimism and businesses were hiring.

So where does that put us? Still down more than 5 million jobs in the pandemic. Look at this, we have that huge crash in February and April. It's taken us 17 months to try to crawl out of this hole. That hole is still, still more than 5 million.

There's that jobless rate, though. That has been dramatic. And, again, these are households here. Households, John, when called by the government, surveyed by the government say I do have a job. And 4.8 percent is the unemployment rate for that survey. Really important, I think.

BERMAN: All right, Romans, stick with us.

I want to bring in CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar. She's also a global business columnist and associate editor of "The Financial Times."

So, Rana, we have this dropping unemployment rate --


BERMAN: But this job creation that just isn't what people were hoping for.

FOROOHAR: Indeed. And as Christine said, it's a brain teaser. You know, this is going to be a big problem for the Fed because they're talking about, do we need to start raising interest rates? There has been inflation. And yet you get these weak job numbers.

So, you know, the market is going to be up and down. It already has been up and down.

I think that this is a data problem at the end of the day, though, because, as Christine pointed out, there are a lot of people working in just very, very different ways than they had been in the past. That was already the case for the last few years with more technology, more people working at home. COVID has put that on steroids. So I -- you know, I'm just not sure that we know what's happening yet.

ROMANS: I think we still have a real child care problem too.

FOROOHAR: Oh, yes.

ROMANS: We talked to child care centers all the time. They can't hire workers. The average child care wage is $12 an hour. And we know that a lot of people are still not -- women especially have not gone back into the labor market yet because they don't have a good child care situation.


ROMANS: That's still part of the problem.

There was also a hurricane in this month that's really important here. I think that hurricane could have held back hiring.

And I'm looking at the education numbers and you just didn't see the public education hiring numbers in September that you usually do. So, we'll have to dig in and see what that data part of the problem is.


And, you know, again, this goes back to, how are we working? You know, I think that we're going to see a lot more teaching remotely. I think we're going to see a lot more telehealth. I mean the whole nature of the labor market is changing. And I'm not sure that the White House, the Fed, Treasury, really has a grasp on these numbers yet.

ROMANS: You keep hearing people talk about how -- especially business leaders who said they can't find workers. There's a real skills mismatch and there's also, I think, an aspiration mismatch happening now over the past year. I've spoken to a lot of people who are retraining into tech and real estate and finance who used to work in retail. And you're -- I don't think people are going to go right back to the jobs they left.

BERMAN: If delta, if they get a handle on delta, and the numbers keep going, do you think you'll see the jobs numbers increasing?


FOROOHAR: You know, I -- we may. I think that what's going to happen is, with unemployment benefits going away, and schools starting, that may start to address a little bit of that child care problem that Christine's talking about. People will feel like, hey, maybe I have to go to work, maybe I can go back to work now. But, again, are they going to be working as much as they did before?

You know, you talk about an aspirational mismatch. I hear a lot of younger people who were already kind of disenchanted. Now, they came into the labor market post financial crisis, you know, I mean the social work compact is broken and they're like, I don't want to go back to my corporate job.

BERMAN: I want to get one quick question in on another big business story overnight, Romans, which is that Elon Musk says he's moving the Tesla headquarters from California to Texas.

ROMANS: Yes, he's making good on his threat from last year. Remember when he called officials in California fascists for closing his factory for lockdowns or having lockdowns when he was trying to churn out Teslas. He's moving his headquarters from the bay area. Also, he says, it's hard to scale up in the bay area. I mean you look at the median price of a house in the bay area versus Austin, it's, you know, multiple factors, you know. So it's going to be easier to expand in Austin, although he said he is still invested and expanding in California too.

But, you know, Charles Schwab, Hewlett Packard, there has been an exodus to Texas.

FOROOHAR: Well, that's the other thing, the way that we're working is going to change the entire geography of the country. If you look at, you know, where have house prices jumped, not so much in big cities, but in the two or three hours outside of big cities. People are moving to different places. That's going to mean a different sort of, you know, regional, economic booms and busts. It's a brave new world.

BERMAN: I feel smarter for having sat here for the last four minutes listening to you.

ROMANS: I know, but we just told you, it's like a total brain teaser, jobs (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: I know. Yes, I don't know what it means, but I feel smarter anyway.

Christine Romans, Rana Foroohar, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

So what has Joe Manchin so angry with the leader of his own party? That's a double face palm seen across the beltway.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: But first, this week's CNN Hero is a survivor of the Boston Marathon bombing. Eight years ago, Heather Abbott was hit by one of the blasts near the finish line and her life was forever changed by the injuries that she suffered, yet she found a way to turn that tragedy into triumph and on Monday she will be back by the finish line of the 125th Boston Marathon, cheering on runners and continuing to live life to the fullest.


HEATHER ABBOTT, CNN HERO: I heard the first explosion just ahead in front of me. The next thing I knew, a second explosion occurred just to my right. And that was the last thing I knew before I landed in the restaurant on the ground.

I was in the hospital for several days while doctors were deciding whether or not to amputate.

It was hard to come to terms with the fact that I am an amputee at first. And had my injury not happened in such a public way, where there was so much assistance available, I never would have been able to afford multiple prosthetics.

This is some of our recent beneficiaries.

ABBOTT: So I decided to do what I could to help people get those devices that simply couldn't get them because they were out of reach.

It has been life changing for them, and a lot of them remind me of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There he is, the crazy man.

ABBOTT: It feels very rewarding to be able to do that.




KEILAR: Fox is celebrating 25 years on the air this week, celebrating, as per usual, with misinformation and not so hot takes. Just a sampling from the past week.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they are done, there will not be an America. We don't have sovereignty of over our bodies. We have to take a vaccine that's not really a vaccine, it's mRNA.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: I've got to run, but I'll say this --

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: Ted Kaczynski, I have to say, has written very convincingly on this, the Unabomber, a bad person but a smart analysis, I think, of the way systems work and --

HANNITY: We'll never know, by the way, how many Americans die because they were infected by the illegal immigrants that Joe Biden is processed through the country and dispersed all around the rest of the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the thing that kills me is that now that, you know, there's a free lunch program in New Jersey and it's for everyone, even if you -- you don't need help to send your child's lunch to school. So those kids are all going to grow up thinking, well, school is -- lunch is free, right?

CARLSON: How is it like drunk driving? How do unvaccinated people hurt anybody?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teachers unions just hate your kids. I'm sorry if that's like -- actually, I'm not sorry. They legit hate your kids.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS: We now know that when they say the hospitals, though, are being overwhelmed, it's almost always a lie.

CARLSON: The question is not, is Joe Biden mentally impaired. Obviously, he is. And, again, we're not go going to gloat over it. But a much more important question for the rest of us is, if he's not running the government, then who is? Now, we can't verify that that's true, but it certainly sounds right.


KEILAR: Fox's chief propagandist with Fox's de facto slogan there, a dangerous one by the way, but that's why you may stumble across a puff piece on Fox on actually about Fox in the coming days because they are turning 25 and you'll know if it's a puff piece if it doesn't mention that in a quarter century on the air, Fox has devolved from a network that once actually kind of covered the news with a little conservative flair to a well-documented hostile workplace that is a mouthpiece of the extreme, peddling racism and white supremacy and deadly misinformation, some of which, if you actually follow it, can kill you. And they're doing all of that for a profit.


KEILAR: What was the role of Fox News in the White House?

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That's just where we went to get what we wanted out. They, you know, by and large, didn't get tough with us. They just took what we were saying and disseminated it. And I think they're disseminated it to a lot of people who went -- went to the Capitol for January 6th.

BERMAN: Do you harm democracy? Do you feel that you played a role in hurting democracy?


KEILAR: Do you think your enabling cost lives?

GRISHAM: I do. I think the way we handled COVID was -- was tragic.



KEILAR: So, yes, Fox turns 25, but at what cost to America?



KEILAR: Princess Diana was a fashion idol, a trailblazing activist and an outspoken member of Britain's royal family. She attracted an unprecedented media spectacle everywhere that she went. But did the world really understand who she was?

The all new CNN original series "Diana" seeks to answer that question by re-examining the life of the icon through a 21st century lens to discover the real woman behind the people's princess.

Here's a preview.


SALLY BEDELL SMITH, BIOGRAPHER: And then Diana was sent to another school called West Heeve (ph). It was a safe and a cozy environment for Diana. It is where her two older sisters, Sarah and Jane, had gone to school.

WENDY MITCHELL, DIANA'S BALLET TEACHER: Here, in the ballet class, was somewhere she could shine. She adored dancing and anyone whose danced, if you do enjoy dancing, you're just lost in yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Into the hall, (INAUDIBLE) leaping about, absolutely amazing and great leaps and bounds across the hall.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I hurried out and closed the door and left her to her dancing.

She did it every day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was quite formidable site, was it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it was amazing. You know, legs everywhere.


KEILAR: Joining us now is CNN royal commentator Kate Williams.

Kate, thank you. I think there's just so much curiosity about Diana and this first episode looks back at her childhood, how this influenced her early relationship with Prince Charles and really her entry into the royal family.

Tell us a little bit more about that.

KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: It's a really fascinating documentary. There are so many great insights, people that knew her, and it really, you know, paints a picture of Diana's childhood. Diana had a very unhappy childhood. Her parents divorced when she was very young. Her mother really was sent away. And she was -- it was a very isolated, on her own, (INAUDIBLE), a typical (INAUDIBLE) childhood in Britain at the time.

Charles also had the standoffish world childhood. And so you have both people who were brought up, typical aristocratic, typical royal childhoods. The idea is that these -- kind of childhoods, very stiff, you don't hug your parents, that they will create very tough little people. Instead, of course, they create a lot of suffering. And we see this with Diana and Charles, all this suffering.

So the documentary really explores her childhood, her adolescence and then the big bang moment when this young, naive girl is suddenly huge box office, she's suddenly chased everywhere. She's a fairy tale princess that the whole world is obsessed with.

KEILAR: You know, it's interesting, it seems like she reversed the influence of her childhood and what she provided to her boys. And that they have chosen that path as well.

How do you see her influence continuing to impact her sons and now their families, especially as we see them, you know, trying to protect their kids, and their wives, from the negative impact of royal status?

WILLIAMS: Diana couldn't have been more influential, revolutionary on royal childhood. It was about, in the time before her, nursemaids (ph). You see your parents one hour a day. It's very stiff. You shake their hands. Diana wasn't -- Diana was so determined to have the childhood for her children that she and her husband never had. She was devoted. She was there for them all the time. Showered them in affection. And when they were teenagers, took them to the movies and to hamburger joints, things that could be more normal. And her children have been determined to continue that legacy, even though she's no longer here to be a devoted grannie, they are here to really show the children that affection, that old world childhood in which you never show your children your affection and you always tell them to be tough, that is gone and, you know, thank goodness for that.

KEILAR: Yes, they're carrying on her legacy and modeling it for a whole new generation of folks.

Thank you so much, Kate, for being with us.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

KEILAR: And you can be sure to tune into this, the all new CNN original series "Diana." That premiers on Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

BERMAN: So here's an important headline for you, "Cats" was so bad that Andrew Lloyd Weber bought a dog. This really happened. The 2019 film was a critical and box office failure. Andrew Lloyd Webber says that watching the adaptation of his Broadway musical on the screen was so traumatic, he needed to get a therapy dog to help him recover. He said, I'm emotionally damaged. All I can say to Andrew Lloyd Webber is, now you know how we feel. Now you know how the rest of us feel, those of us who saw it.

Now, he was talking about the film version. I will enlarge it to say, again --

KEILAR: You hate it all.

BERMAN: I just -- if you were alive in the '80s, you know, you know how wrong it was.

KEILAR: Where's your therapy dog?

BERMAN: Where is my --

KEILAR: Right, from "Cats"? Because you need one.

BERMAN: Look, I need one.

KEILAR: It really has been a theme this week, Berman. We should explore this.


BERMAN: I know. And just -- go look --

KEILAR: We'll explore this.

BERMAN: Just that. That's all I'll leave you with for the weekend.

CNN's coverage continues right now.