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11 Shot, 3 Students Killed After Teen Opens Fire at School; Report Shows Trump Tested Positive Three Days Before Debate With Biden; CNN Goes Inside South African Lab Where Omicron Being Studied. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 01, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Wednesday December 1st. I'm Brianna Keilar with John Berman.

And we are getting some new information about the chaotic scene of a mass shooting at Oxford High in Michigan.

Police say a 15-year-old sophomore opened fire, killing three students and wounding eight others, including a teacher. Some of these kids are in very bad shape right now. And classroom videos show students barricading themselves as the shooter walks through the hallways.

Some of these kids managed to escape through a window. They were running for their lives through the snow. And the suspect was taken into custody within just two minutes of police arriving on scene we're told.

This was the 651st mass shooting this year just in the past 11 months.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: The shooting suspect is on suicide watch this morning in a juvenile facility. Law enforcement recovered a loaded semi-automatic hand gun at the scene that still has seven rounds in it. The weapon was purchased just four days earlier by the boy's father. Authorities do believe the young man acted alone.

This morning, a shattered community, north of Detroit is coping with yet another senseless act of violence. Governor Gretchen Whitmer choked up as she described a parent's worst nightmare.

KEILAR: And joining us now is journalist Dave Cullen, who has been covering tragedies like this for more than 20 years. He is the author of New York Times Bestsellers' Columbine and Parkland, Birth of a Movement.

You know, Dave, I like getting your perspective on these things. But I have to be honest, I don't like seeing you because it's always for the same reason and I think we're always just sick of seeing these things happen so many times. I wonder what your reaction is to this latest shooting. And I also just want to be clear your book, Columbine, is really this cautionary tale about making early conclusions because a lot of them can be wrong with the information you're getting, but what questions do you also have about this shooting?

DAVE CULLEN, AUTHOR COLUMBINE AND PARKLAND BIRTH OF A MOVEMENT: Yes. I have a similar reaction. You know, I just tweeted yesterday afternoon. I just -- you know, I'm run out of words or reactions. You know, I get that little more and more just angry about these and that we're not doing anything.

And, in fact, you know I do a lot of international interviews too. And those are very different tone. They pretty much always start with a question that is basically essentially like, what are you guys doing over there on guns? How come you haven't done anything? And why not and when are you going to do something?

And, you know, I spend like five minutes sort of explaining, well, we're trying and you know why can't. But I get the same thing like what don't we do something. And you can have different, obviously, views on guns and gun safety and what should be done but I think people on both sides realize we need to do something and yet we have been stuck in nothing. So, I mean, that's where I come.

And actually on the mental health and particularly on teen depression, which is when most of these -- most of a problem lies in narrowing it, we're going to been about mental health to that in particularly screening for it, which is a very doable thing and done zilch for 27 years.

KEILAR: Yes. And as you have pointed out a lot, just not just these sort of big mass shootings in suburb to get a lot of attention. That's the case with a lot of gun violence.

I do want to listen to a moment, Dave, where students where barricading inside their classroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's safe to come out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not willing to take that risk right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't hear you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not taking that risk right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Well, open the door. I want my bag, bro.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, bro.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, bro.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said bro, red flag.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Those students, Dave, then crawled out of a window. I mean, they're not taking any chances. I wonder if it stands out to you just how savvy they have become.

CULLEN: Yes, exactly. It was cringing. And, you know, I remember, I spent a lot of time with the Parkland kids, and, you know, some of them I asked them like, you know, how shocked you were, and were sort of like -- you know, some of them were and some were like, no, I was kind of expecting it.

And, yes, a couple of things. First of all, to put our children in situations where they're making those sort of decisions for their lives.

[07:05:05]

But, yes, like you said, they have gotten really smart about it because they have through this, they have thought about it.

You know, this is the Columbine generation and then some where they grew up. You know, they weren't born yet when Columbine happened. And, you know, one kindergarten or pre-school (INAUDIBLE) to do this and like one of the things is survival when somebody comes down the hall with a gun. You know, it's ridiculous.

And, by the way, I'm sorry, you know I didn't answer your other question about what questions I have on this. Specifically, what question I have are zilch. And I no longer care about each individual case, what drove this little expletive, which is, sorry, how I think about them now, is, you know, I'm thinking only about the bigger picture and what this adds to what we can do about this.

You know, I'm sick of looking at the past of what caused each of these individual things and, for God's sake, you know, solutions.

KEILAR: I do wonder what do you make of the parents of the suspect who, look, it's legally presumed innocent but police say that he surrendered while holding the firearm that he used to shoot these students. He's not cooperating. His parents have secured a lawyer. He is not speaking to police. What do you make of that? How does this affect this?

CULLEN: Well, I totally winced when I saw that. You know, I mean, I also put myself in a parent shoes, they don't want him to say anything foolish. I could only hope -- you know, we don't know. And I can only hope that the parents do want to him to cooperate in some way but be careful about how they're doing it, but maybe not.

You know, it also brings up an interesting point more and more we are seeing these shooters live through it that used to be extremely rare. And I used to talk about this as essentially suicides because almost none of them lived through it and most of them are studying each other. And we learned that in their social media and so forth and their journals. And so they know they're not going to live through it. So, it is essentially a suicide because they know that it's going to end in their death. And so this is very conscious decision which tells us a lot about what's going on with most of them.

However, that was the case until about three-ish years ago, and more and more they're living through it. So, it is kind of changing the dynamic of who these people are and they are stopping and surrendering. It is a little early to draw conclusions. We're just starting to get a trend there, but it is definitely a trend where they are living through it and they're no longer -- so, yes, again, I think we need the psychologists to tell us what's going on there, if they know.

We also -- I don't think we have had enough where we could interview them and sort of find out. And I'm very curious about that aspect that's changing. And, hopefully, maybe it will shed life now that they are living through and they can tell us more.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean let's hope. It is a very interesting point that you raise there. But, look, this is a community in Michigan that is in mourning, kids who are not going to be there for the holidays who were just at the Thanksgiving table. It's beyond, beyond disturbing.

Dave Cullen, I want to thank you so much for being with us.

CULLEN: Thanks, Brianna.

BERMAN: So, we do have breaking news this morning. Donald Trump tested positive for coronavirus three days before his first debate against Joe Biden on September 29th, 2020. The stunning revelation is in a new book by former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows that was obtained by The Guardian, a positive test the country never knew about, a positive test days before he ultimately admitted to the country that he had COVID, days before attending event after event after event with vulnerable people.

Now, there was a negative test the same day but it still raises all kinds of questions about honesty and transparency and timing and why the White House chose to trust one test rather than another.

As for the debate, according to The Guardian, Meadows writes that he knew each candidate was required to test negative for the virus within 72 hours of the start time but, quote, nothing was going to stop Trump from going out there.

CNN has not confirmed any of this independently. We have reached out to all parties involved and are waiting to hear back.

KEILAR: So, here is the timeline, as we know it, with this new claim. On Saturday the 26th, Trump hosted a rose garden event for Amy Coney Barrett. You remember it, it was known as a social spreader event, no masks, no social distancing and many who attended that event later would test positive. That is actually the day that he first tested positive. Later, subsequently testing negative, according to Meadows in this report, using a rapid test. So not a PCR test here, which we're going to discuss with experts ahead.

The very next day, despite that positive test, Trump attended an indoor event with gold star military families, military families who had lost their loved ones in the service of this nation.

[07:10:04]

Two days later, Tuesday the 29th, Fox's Chris Wallace says Trump was not tested at the debate because he arrived late. They allowed him on stage due to the honor system. Later that week, on Thursdays, the 1st, he officially tested positive, according to his doctor, and on Friday, the 2nd, he goes to the hospital in the evening.

BERMAN: I want to bring in CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon.

So, Sanjay, a positive COVID test three days before the event, days before, obviously, we were ultimately told that the president did have COVID. What questions does this raise for you and what should have happened inside the White House?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if this is true, I mean, this is incredibly reckless, obviously. Keep in mind we're talking about someone who tested positive but also, if it's true, had symptoms. So, this wasn't an incidental test. He had symptoms, wasn't feeling well, that was of concern.

The way I read it this time, and it sounds like reported extensively at the time, they were doing PCR tests at the White House. Those are sort of the gold standard tests. And we can show you the different types of test were talking about, but those are the one that detect the presence of the virus. They're highly accurate. The results can sometimes take longer but they did have these types of PCR tests at the White House, typically, results came back within a half an hour to an hour or so.

It sounds like, again, just from reading what Mark Meadows had put in the book, that was a test that tested positive. That, in conjunction with him having symptoms, would have been enough to trigger isolation, contact tracing of the people around him, obviously canceling events, not participating in the debate, three days later, putting other people at risk, including the potential former president of the United States.

Now, what sounds like happened is that after that PCR, he had an antigen test, that's the test that you see at the bottom of the screen. Now, this is a test that's typically done to try and figure out has someone developed a high enough viral load. It is typically done in people who don't have symptoms because the question they are trying to ask is are they starting to become contagious. That's the question.

So maybe that is a test that they came back negative subsequently. They say that is more accurate test, not necessarily true. PCR test is far and away more accurate, but that antigen test, they may have used that as some sort of justification that at least he doesn't seem to be shedding that much virus as of now.

Regardless, PCR test positive, symptomatic, and we can show you what the protocols should have been at that point, he should have gone into isolation for ten days and stayed in isolation at least until ten days after his symptoms had started. So, it doesn't sound like obviously that happened. And, I mean, it's just another sort of bizarre tale of this entire thing. And then, obviously, he went to the hospital by October 2nd.

KEILAR: You know, some of this is just confirming I think, John Avlon, what we knew because we knew when he went to the hospital, that told us perhaps something about the timeline, that it was more accelerated than he or the White House was letting on.

But just -- how do you see this picture of someone who is putting so many people, his own family, Joe Biden, gold star families, his staff, Congress, Supreme Court nominee potentially, although she had COVID previously? I mean, what does that tell you that this person was putting all those folks at risk?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It is kind of malignant narcissism that exposes a complete disregard for anyone but yourself. But in the context of our democracy, here's what really jumped out at me.

At that first debate, where we now have reason to believe that Donald Trump was -- did have COVID -- and remember the source being here, The Guardian's copy of Mark Meadows book, right, the source here is his chief of staff, normally considered pretty credible source when he is not lying for his boss, the honor system.

That was the principle that Chris Wallace used to excuse the fact that he had not been tested before the debate because he came in late, the honor system. It's a basic concept that a lot of our society builds around. And it does not apply to Donald Trump and his minions. They do not operate within the honor system.

And the fact that all these supposedly responsible people, from chief of staff, to his personal doctor, will knocker under and lie on behalf of the president, so easily, dropping all ethics and professional guidance, is itself a sickness that I think we need to confront more clearly.

BERMAN: It also suggests the possibility of a conspiracy inside the White House to hide from the American people what they suspected or at least reasonably feared, Sanjay, a conspiracy possibly that included the White House doctor who was asked about the testing.

I want to play the sound of the White House physician being asked about testing and then listen to how squirrely the answer is.

[07:15:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Can you tell us when he had his last negative test? Was it Thursday? Was it Wednesday? Do you remember when he had his last negative test?

DR. SEAN CONLEY, FMR. WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: I don't want to go backwards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: First of all, again, he's dodged the question there, Sanjay. What responsibility did Sean Conley have?

GUPTA: Well, the responsibility was to take care of his patient and to do the thing that was clearly laid out in terms of protocols not only in this case for the health of his patient but also for the public health of all the people around his patient.

So, I mean, this is -- again, if this is true, it is really reckless regardless if you're the president of the United States or anybody else. He had a positive test. He was symptomatic. He was face-to-face with people. So, I think what they're going to say, what it sounds like they're saying, Mark Meadows, again, I'm not sure exactly how they're going to frame this, but they are going to probably say, look, the PCR test came back positive but the antigen test, which some people will say, hey, look, that is the one that tells you if you're developing a contagiousness, that came back negative, so nothing to worry about. That's not how it works. The PCR test came back and he's symptomatic. He needed to be in isolation. It's as simple as that.

And so they can sort of try and define this differently but I think the protocols, what should have happened is very, very clear here, and that was evasive.

AVLON: They were his administration's protocols. Two or three days later, he's coming down with COVID. And so when Dr. Conley goes in front of the American people, his responsibility is something actually slightly larger than his patient, I would argue, in this case. I want to look forward was Trump speak for I'm lying to you right now. I'm not answering your question.

And it also raises a question regarding the debate against Joe Biden. Was the president's potential positive status a feature, not a bug, so to speak? Nothing is beyond these people. In the middle of a pandemic, he's exposing gold star families, in addition to everyone around him, potentially.

KEILAR: Yes. And, look, I believe Sean Conley is still active duty, just to be clear, all right, member of the military at the time doing this. Certainly, there needs to be some kind of review of this and how military doctors are serving the president, as well as the American public.

I do want to ask you, Avlon, why would Meadows do this now? Why would this come out now? Why put this out in his book now?

AVLON: It's a great question because he has been one of these folks who, I think, for reasons related to the partisan economy, has been a Trump loyalist, because the Republican Party is so frozen by Trump that people's power comes in relation to access.

It is hard to believe that Donald Trump wouldn't torch him, as he does everybody, ultimately, for telling this truth, but also when you publish a book, there's an expectation of some news, some truth in it. And it seems like the daily reality was just bad.

And Mark Meadows can create whatever excuse is in his mind and we'll see the total book coming out. But if this is the first nugget that The Guardian appears to have picked up from the chief of staff's book, it speaks to a greater pattern of irresponsibility and narcissism than even we knew, and we knew it was bad.

BERMAN: Well, it could be two things. It could be one, first of all, Meadows doesn't understand what the actual science is and thought that the second test was a get out of jail free card. That's possible. The second thing is that Meadows is somehow proud of it, that, look, our administration, we didn't care about COVID. Look, we have all learned to live with this.

AVLON: We have only lost as many people as died in the civil war. Everyone should just -- the -- don't forget, this administration, this president's irresponsibility, Deborah Birx has said led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans unnecessarily.

BERMAN: All right. Sanjay, John, thank you both very much.

KEILAR: This new omicron variant has spread to nearly two dozen countries at this point. CNN is going inside a lab in South Africa where the variant is being studied and we'll have a live report, next.

BERMAN: New Republican infighting, a war of words between House members. What's the impact here? What's Kevin McCarthy going to do really? And what is the conservative majority Supreme Court is going to do about Roe versus Wade? One of the most important Supreme Court cases in decades happens in just a few hours.

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KEILAR: Scientists in South Africa working to learn about the severity of the coronavirus omicron variant and the vaccine's effectiveness against it. CNN actually got an inside look at the South African lab where scientists discovered this new variant, and Dave McKenzie is live for us in Johannesburg with more on that.

Fascinating to see as they are working to study this, David.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Brianna. Yes, it is fascinating. As more countries lock off Southern Africa, There is emerging evidence that omicron is coming out of different parts of the world much earlier.

[07:25:03]

Not necessarily from Southern Africa but it was discovered here. And we went inside the lab.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCKENZIE (voice over): After tracking COVID for many months at this lab, Jeanine du Plessis is bracing herself.

Have you seen a lot more positive cases in the last few weeks?

JEANINE DU PLESSIS, MEDICAL SCIENTIST, WITS VIDA RESEARCH UNIT: Yes, we have.

MCKENZIE: First a trickle, then a flood at the Wits VIDA lab. They're studying a disturbing variant of an old foe.

DU PLESSIS: It's still too early to actually to tell. There is so much that is so unknown about the variant. Everyone feels a little bit of hopelessness in a moment like that.

MCKENZIE: This lab is really at the cold (ph) phase of the COVID response. They are expanding so fast. They're putting their samples in freezers right here in the hall way. They come in in shifts. And as this wave develops, they will be operating 24 hours a day.

They know how bad it gets. This was delta's awful impact in Johannesburg. In July, patients stacked in hallways struggling to breathe in exclusive footage obtained by CNN. At the lab Wits VIDA and all across the globe, they are trying to understand whether omicron is more transmissible, deadlier, whether it breaks through existing COVID-19 vaccines.

What does it feel like that the entire world is hanging on this this discovery that was figured out here initially?

ALLISON GLASS, PATHOLOGIST, LANCET LABORATORIES: Yes. So, I mean, it can -- does feel a bit sort of surreal when you watch the news and you see the impact it's having globally. And you're thinking, wow, it's sort of thinking (ph) stock markets and airlines and people's travel plans. You don't plan on having that sort of ripple effect.

MCKENZIE: A spike in cases first happened in Pretoria with a cluster infection at this technical university. But hips of a new variant were first detected by scientists and pathologists at Lancet Laboratories.

In early November, they spotted a strange anomaly in their positive PCR tests. Then it happened over and over again. It reminded them of tests for the alpha variant first detected more than a year ago in the U.K.

What was it like to see this anomaly cropping up again?

GLASS: Well, it was a bit disturbing because it made us worry that we were dealing with something new and because it coincided with an increase in positivity rate. It made us worry that we could be dealing with a new variant.

MCKENZIE: Lancet urgently notified South Africa's genomics team. Within days, they described and made public disturbing details of the highly mutated virus. Much of the world shut off from Southern Africa. And scientists here say they are now struggling to fly in critical reagent for their lab work to understand omicron.

Why was it so important to alert everybody about this?

GLASS: Especially with the reaction of the world to Southern Africa on the announcement of the variant. And a lot of people say, well, why didn't you just keep quiet about what you find? But what's important is we know a new variant is likely to cause an increase in cases, whether they'd be more severe or not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCKENZIE (on camera): Now, the big question everyone is asking, is this more severe or not or even less severe. Cases are rising, Brianna, in this part of the country rapidly. But at least at this stage, pathologists and doctors say they are noticing that it's not as serious as possibly earlier waves. Though very much too early to say. It could take two to three weeks.

The message here and around the world is get vaccinated if you haven't already, if you live in a country where you can get those vaccines and get a booster. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes. We heard from one South African doctor seeing patients saying that this isn't that much different from what he's seen compared to the delta variant, but there is also this question of does that matter? Are we going to see these hospitalizations continue to climb there?

David, I really appreciate that report. Thank you so much.

Coming up, T.V.'s Dr. Mehmet Oz throwing his hat into the Senate race in Pennsylvania. Does it matter if he lives there or not?

BERMAN: And the trash in the GOP. That's what one Republican said about another. Kevin McCarthy, how he's dealing with this infighting and why is it so hard for him to pick sides in this.

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