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New Day

Congress Kicks Can Again, Averts Government Shutdown Until 2022; Alec Baldwin Speaks Out on Tragic Rust Shooting; Parkland Dad Demands Meeting With Biden Over Gun Promises. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 03, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Naturally may not be enough.

[07:00:02]

Now, we also know that infection-induced antibodies wane over time, the same as vaccine induced antibodies. So the combination of a changed appearance of the virus and waning amounts of antibodies may not be enough to protect.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: And, Doctor, the White House says that one of the people in the U.S. who has the omicron variant says that he attended this anime convention in New York City. This was a huge convention. So, what should be done right now in terms of tracing and monitoring potential spread here?

REINER: Well, as almost every infection, people should be contact traced. And their contacts need to be notified. But I think what we assumed from the very beginning is that this virus is already in the United States. So, now we know the virus is here.

The big message for everyone is that if you have not been vaccinated, now is the time to get vaccinated. You still fully -- about 18 percent of adults in this country have not been vaccinated. Folks over age five, currently available population for vaccine in this country, only about 75 percent of the population have received at least one dose of vaccine. So, now is the time. This is the incentive for everyone to be vaccinated.

The other flipside of this is the more robust response you have to your vaccine, the better you are likely to be protected against this variant, and that's where boosters come in. So, if you've been vaccinated, time to get boosted. We have only boosted about 23 percent of the folks in this country who have been fully vaccinated. So, there's a long way to go.

So, the message is, yes, the variant is here. We don't know if it's going to outcompete delta. We don't know how well prior immunity will protect you. If you're not vaccinated, this is your cue.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thank you very much.

New Day continues right now.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Friday, December 3rd. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

Ring the bells and shout it from the rooftops, there will be no government shutdown at midnight tonight. Not only did both Houses of Congress pass a stopgap measure to fund will government until February, they did it a day early. What got into them?

So, there was some political drama with some Republicans threatening to block everything because of President Biden's vaccine mandates.

KEILAR: A small number Republican senators threatened to hold up the vote on the funding bill. They see fighting vaccine mandates as a winning political play, obviously.

And it comes as we see a dramatic measure out of Germany, where the unvaccinated are essentially being banned from public life as the country deals with a surge, a considerable one. It shows patience has completely run out with those who are refusing a shot, very similar to what's happening in the U.S. as the winter months begin.

Joining us now is Michael Smerconish, CNN Political Commentator and Host of CNN's Smerconish.

Okay. What do you think about what Germany is doing, and can you imagine that being done in the U.S.?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I imagine it not being tried here, and it wouldn't work, Brianna, if it were to be tried. As you just mentioned, we narrowly averted a government shutdown because of continued opposition among Republicans, red staters, rural representatives to vaccine mandates.

And the president's announcement yesterday of increased emphasis on testing I think is a tacit recognition by the White House that they just have not been able to reach certain among us and that no amount of brow beating about the need for vaccination is going to get the job done.

Another sign that I see going on here in terms of the intransigents by some towards vaccination is this move afoot in at least four states. Tennessee is one of them. Kansas is one of them, Iowa and Florida, where they are guaranteeing unemployment benefits for individuals who lose their gig because they wouldn't go along with an employer's vax mandate.

I mean, stop and think about that. The argument has been that the government has been too generous with enhanced employment benefits and that's why people aren't going back to work. By the way, I think there's some truth in that argument, but the very people who are advancing that argument are the same ones saying let's protect the right of people to collect a paycheck in defiance of the employer's mandate.

So, that's what separates us from Germany. We are so dug in on this issue and Angela Merkel, on her way out the door, is headed in a totally different direction.

[07:05:01]

BERMAN: First of all, Michael, I can't believe you're looking for intellectual consistency in some people's political stances. Shame on you for even asking that question.

Clearly, Republicans -- there are some Republicans who see opposition to vaccine mandates and requirements as a winning political issue, right?

SMERCONISH: No doubt about it. And, sadly, I think it plays well in certain parts of the country. But, yes, they are recognizing that digging in and opposing the president, first of all, but especially on this issue, making it a Gadsden flag, Don't Tread On Me kind of thing has resonance in certain parts of the country.

And so I think the White House realizes this now and is going in a slightly different direction than they have been going here to for.

KEILAR: And so Republicans, look, they blame Biden for rising cases, right, but then they're fighting precautions every step of the way. So, they're trying to keep the problem going as they blame the president for it.

SMERCONISH: Well, Brianna, yes. And John is right when he points out that the hypocrisy that exists in all of this. I mean, why isn't the winning hand for Republicans, Operation Warp Speed is what enabled the progression, the fast development of these vaccines, give Donald Trump credit, this is our vaccine, let's all go out and get it.

But you've seen those instances where I think Trump was in Alabama. I remember Lindsey Graham giving a speech at a country club in South Carolina and starting to go down the road of encouraging people to get vaccinated. And the blowback from the live audience was immediate and they never went back in that direction. So, they recognize, Republican leadership recognizes this is something that the base has really dug in on.

KEILAR: Yes. Michael, we know that you will be dealing with some of these topics tomorrow at 9:00 A.M. We'll be watching. Thanks for being on this morning.

SMERCONISH: Thank you for that.

KEILAR: Alec Baldwin speaking out about the tragic shooting on the set of Rust in October. Baldwin says that he never pulled the trigger of the gun that killed a cinematographer there, Halyna Hutchins.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov live for us in Denver with more on this. This was an incredibly interesting interview. It also raises a lot of questions.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly does raise a lot of questions. But this was a raw, emotional hour-long interview. Alec Baldwin described the moment that he saw the film cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, falling to the ground, saying he was wondering whether she had a heart attack or perhaps fainted. He said that he had no idea, or the idea of a live round being in that weapon was so far from his head that he didn't realize that she was shot until nearly an hour later.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV (voice over): Alec Baldwin denying he's at facility in the death of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer shot on the Rust movie set in late October.

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Well, the trigger pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: So, you never pulled the trigger?

BALDWIN: No, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger at them, never. That was the training that I had. You don't point the gun at somebody and pull the trigger.

KAFANOV: The actor speaking out for the first time in an interview with ABC News, detailing what Baldwin says happened in the moments prior to the fatal shooting.

BALDWIN: I'm just showing her, how about that? Does that work? Do you see that? Do you see that? She said, yes, that's good. I let go of the hammer, bang, the gun goes off.

Well, everyone is horrified. They're shocked. It's loud. They don't have their ear plugs in. The gun was supposed to be empty. I was told I was handed an empty gun. They were cosmetic rounds, nothing with a charge at all, a flash round, nothing. She goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint?

The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me until probably 45 minutes to an hour later.

KAFANOV: Baldwin emotional when discussing Hutchins, who was working as the film's director of photography.

BALDWIN: The people who watched her daily (ph) said her work was beautiful. She was someone who was loved by everyone who worked with and liked by everyone who worked with and admired. I'm sorry. But admired by everybody who worked with her.

KAFANOV: He dismissed claims that armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who has faced backlash for the incident, was overworked.

BALDWIN: I assume that everyone who is shooting a lower budget film is stretched, myself included. And I got no complaints from her or the prop department.

[07:10:00]

I'm not sitting there when I'm getting dressed and ready to go do a scene to say, oh, my God, the prop woman seemed very harried today.

KAFANOV: The armorer is responsible for handling guns on set, and Baldwin says it's up to that person to make sure they're safe for use.

BALDWIN: There is one person that is supposed to make sure what is in the gun is right and what's wrong is not in the gun. One person has that responsibility to maintain the gun.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What is the actor's responsibility?

BLADWIN: I guess that's a tough question, because the actor's responsibility going this day forward is very different than it was the day before that.

KAFANOV: The actor also denied allegations former Crew Member Lane Luper, who said conditions on the New Mexico set were unsafe.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you had no sense from anyone on the set that people had been stretched to the point where safety was compromised?

BALDWIN: No, no. I never heard one word about that. None. None.

KAFANOV: An investigation is under way working to determine how live rounds made it on set. Baldwin says he's eager to learn what authorities discover.

BALDWIN: I mean, as far as I'm concerned, someone put -- the investigation is going to find out. But someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet that wasn't even supposed to be on the property. And this is the thing I hope the sheriff's department doesn't give up on, that they follow this to the ends of the Earth. Where did that bullet come from? Somebody brought live rounds, plural, onto the set of the film. And one of them ended up in that gun. And if the bullets didn't come on the property, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

KAFANOV: No one has been charged with a crime in connection with the shooting. And Baldwin believes he's in the clear.

BALDWIN: I've spoken to the sheriff's department multiple times. I don't have anything to hide. You know what I mean? The facts as I see them are what I have stated on the record.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're not worried about being charged?

BALDWIN: I've been told by people who are in the know in terms of even inside the state that it's highly unlikely I would be charged with anything criminally.

KAFANOV: Baldwin says the focus should be on Hutchins and Director Joel Souza, who was injured.

BALDWIN: I don't want to sound like I'm a victim. I mean, again, we have two clear victims here.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is this the worst thing that has ever happened to you?

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. Yes. Because I think back and I think of what could I have done? KAFANOV: He also recalled meeting with Hutchins's husband and nine- year-old son.

BALDWIN: I didn't know what to say. He hugged me and he goes like, I suppose you and I are going to go through this together, he said. And I thought, well, not as much as you are.

This boy doesn't have a mother anymore. And there's nothing we can do to bring her back. And I told him, I said, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to convey to you how sorry I am and how I'm willing to do anything I can to cooperate.

KAFANOV: When asked if he feels guilt for the fatal incident that ended the cinematographer's life, Baldwin giving this response.

BALDWIN: No, no. I feel that there is -- I feel that -- someone is responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is but I know it's not me. I mean, honest to God, if I felt that I was responsible, I might have killed myself if I thought I was responsible. And I don't say that lightly.

KAFANOV: Earlier in the interview, the actor described how the aftermath of the tragedy is deeply affecting him mentally.

BALDWIN: I'm not somebody who has a lot of vivid dreams but I have dreams about this constantly now. I wake up constantly where guns are going off. These images have come into my mind, kept me awake at night. And I haven't slept for weeks. I have really been struggling physically. I'm exhausted from this because I have got to try to be there for my kids. And my family is all I have. I mean, honest to God, I couldn't give a (BLEEP) about my career anymore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV (on camera): Now, multiple members of the crew have accused producers of Rust of cutting corners on the film for the sake of budget. At least two, as you heard in the piece, have filed lawsuits against Alec Baldwin. But Baldwin deflected some of that blame when speaking to ABC News, saying he was not one of the producers in charge of hiring. All this as that investigation into how those live rounds ended up on set continues. Guys?

KEILAR: Yes, such a raw interview there. Lucy, thank you for that report.

BERMAN: Joining me now is Steve Wolf, a special effect coordinator and theatrical firearms safety expert with more than 30 years of experience.

And, Steve, we want to ask some very specific questions about the gun. But, first, I just want your human reaction to Alec Baldwin saying he felt zero guilt for what happened.

STEVE WOLF, THEATRICAL FIREARMS SAFETY EXPERT: Really unconscionable. There was enough blame to go around that Alec certainly knows he has partial responsibility in this. [07:15:04]

If he's not the one who brought live ammo on the set, he is the one who pointed the gun at her and he is the one pressed the trigger. I can't imagine being in that position and not feeling some sense of guilt and remorse. And his trying to steer the conversation to where did the ammo came from, it's not the actor's job. He was asked what the actor's job. Well, the actor's is not to try to determine what the direction of the investigation is by telling people this is the one thing I want you to focus on. There were many factors and he was partially responsible.

BERMAN: So, the gun, and this is one of the big headlines from this interview. Alec Baldwin made the claim that he never pulled the trigger, that what he did was he pulled the hammer back and then released it. Explain --

WOLF: I'll show you exactly what happened.

BERMAN: Okay. Explain to me what he is claim and how plausible that is.

WOLF: Okay, so not plausible. On a single-action revolver, when you pull the hammer back, which is an intentional act, click, click, click, click. Now the hammer is set. When you pull the hammer back and let go, as you can see I'm not holding this, the hammer doesn't go anywhere. When you press the trigger, which I'm going to do it with this finger so you can see what a minute act that is, it takes very little to press the trigger.

So, option one, he pressed the trigger but it was such a minor press that he wasn't aware that he had ordered that signal from his brain. Or option B, he's holding the gun with the trigger depressed.

Now, on this gun it doesn't matter which order you go in. You can cock the gun and you fire it with the trigger or you can press the trigger and then cock the gun. And if you release it at this point, it falls and the gun fires.

So, as he is cross-drawing, his finger is on the trigger, which he may have interpreted it just resting on the trigger. But with a one millimeter pull, it would be sufficient. Now he pulls the hammer back and then releases it. He doesn't have to press the trigger again if he's already got pressure on it in order for the gun to fire. And I think that's really a key point in this matter.

BERMAN: Two other possibilities that I have seen raised, and everyone who raises them say, almost minuscule chance that it could be. Number one, he didn't pull the hammer pack to the point it clicked, any possibility of doing that and discharging a bullet?

WOLF: No. There are things that catch the hammer at each point of the way. I could let go at any point. And the firing pin never will impact a casing.

BERMAN: And then the last possibility is, is that somehow the gun itself was flawed so that the mechanism that would cause it to click, as you really very, very clearly pointed out to it, somehow didn't work. There was no click and that somehow there was nothing to prevent the hammer from going in. Any possibility of that?

WOLF: Only an investigation that examines the interior parts of the gun could reveal that.

BERMAN: But unlikely in your experience?

WOLF: Very unlikely, I have never seen it happen.

BERMAN: Steve, I want to thank you for showing us that, because that explains exactly what Baldwin was trying to explain last night and how plausible it was.

Now, to his separate contention that somehow the bullet ended up there, you point out -- you say that doesn't clear him of all wrongdoing in this or any responsibility in this, but it does raise a very, very serious question, which was there was a live round in the gun and somehow the live round got in the gun.

WOLF: Yes. And Mr. Baldwin describes how earlier in his career he had worked with professional armerers. And he said they would hand you the gun. They would open the gun. They would show the gun to everyone. They would load the gun in front of everyone and show them what was being put into it. If there were dummy rounds, they would shake it so everyone could hear it. They would hand the gun to the actor.

If the actor manipulated the gun at all, the professional armorer would come over and say, stop, I need to check that, I need to see what you did, please don't do that again, right? And he said he made sure that the actor was not the last line of defense in protecting the crew.

Well, this was not done on this set. Ms. Gutierrez was not there handing him the gun. She was not checking the gun. The gun was handed to him by an assistant director who has no credibility as a firearms expert. So, he knew the difference between what a real armorer does and what was being done on that set, and he never objected to that.

BERMAN: Right.

WOLF: He never said, Dave, why are you handing me the gun?

[07:20:00]

Where is Ms. Reed? Why isn't she checking this gun for me? He just took the gun on the advice of someone who he knew had no expertise. So why would he believe the gun was clear and why would Halyna believe that the gun was clear, Dave Halls, who has no expertise, says cold gun. Well, he should have known that declaration could have only come from the armorer, and she wasn't there.

BERMAN: Steve Wolf, I said, thank you very much for explaining this to us vivid in such detail. I appreciate it.

WOLF: Thank you so much, John.

BERMAN: A father who lost his son in the Parkland shooting traveled to the White House to get answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANUEL OLIVER, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM, JOAQUIN GUAC OLIVER: I don't understand why four kids lost their lives inside a school after we already learned the lesson in Parkland, in Sandy Hook and in many other places, like almost --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What he wants President Biden to know, he will join us next.

Plus, Facebook sold ads comparing the vaccinations to the Nazi era. How much did the company profit from this?

KEILAR: And ahead, Stacey Abrams is running for governor again. Will she be successful on her second attempt? We'll talk to her about this, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

KEILAR: In the wake of the school shooting in Michigan that killed at least four children this week, the father of a Parkland shooting victim went to Washington to urge President Biden to meet with him to talk about gun violence and to remind the president of the promises that he made on the campaign trail to help stop it.

Manuel Oliver is the father of the Parkland shooting victim, Joaquin Guac Oliver. He is also the founder of Changetheref.org, and he is with us now. Manuel, thank you so much for joining us.

Just tell us a little bit about this. Because, Tuesday, we all learned that another horrific school shooting has happened, and Wednesday you get a plane to D.C.

OLIVER: Yes. Well, thank you for having me here today. And this is just a go all the way back to four years ago when I lost my beautiful son, and I keep seeing how this continues to happen, continues to happen.

And the whole plan was to stop this from happening. That was the initial plan. I had these conversations with many of the politicians that are in charge today, including President Biden. And I was very frustrated. I'm still frustrated. I'm mad. And I have to do something. I'm only loyal to my son, Joaquin. Let's put it that way.

KEILAR: You have supported the Biden administration. You voted for him.

OLIVER: Of course.

KEILAR: And you're now taking up sort of a position outside the White House. What do you want?

OLIVER: I had a reason to vote for Biden. That is exactly the reason that I'm looking today to fix. And this is not about blue or red. This is ethical. What I'm looking for today is those answers, those promises. And we shook hands and we said -- we share that pain of losing a loved one. That was one of the connections with Biden and us. And so he will understand what to do.

So, today, where are those promises. And these families in Michigan, these four kids, they deserve an answer. Because we shouldn't be learning lessons out of these after Parkland and Sandy Hook and Pulse Nightclub in Vegas, in Santa Fe, in Santa Clarita. So, what are we doing with this information? Are we totally ignoring it or what?

KEILAR: What do you want specifically? What action do you want the president to take?

OLIVER: Well, I've been hearing, the president can do anything. What do you mean? If the president can do anything, then who can do something? We have a total division in Congress, a total division in Senate. The president can do many things. He can actually write an executive order now and ban assault weapons, for example. And will that make everybody happy? No. But it will save a few lives for that period of that executive order being there.

So this is an easy question for someone that lost its son. And I'm telling you something, 150,000 families have lost someone since I lost Joaquin. I know their feeling, I know the pain. I hear people saying enough is enough. That's not enough. Enough is enough and then do something. I'm here.

KEILAR: You tried to get into the White House yesterday. You were rebuffed. What have you heard from the White House? Are they responding to you?

OLIVER: The only response was like at 5:00 P.M., I was there very early in the morning. Do you have time for a call next week?

KEILAR: With who?

OLIVER: With another guy. I forgot the name.

KEILAR: Not with the president?

OLIVER: No, no, which is an important guy, by the way, just not the person that I want to talk to, yes.

KEILAR: Like an important adviser, Cedric?

OLIVER: Yes, exactly.

KEILAR: Yes.

OLIVER: And I go, like, no, are you kidding me? I'm outside. I'm here. And I'll be here tomorrow. And I understand because of the Secret Service that making an appointment at the White House is not a big deal. So, if I don't have an appointment yesterday, all right, let's make an appointment for today. So, I'm going back today and I'm really wishing that one of the reporters in that press conference inside the White House will raise his hand and say, hey, is it true there is a Parkland father outside that you're not letting in?

And if you let me in, it's going to take ten minutes because I have questions for answers they should already have, I'm assuming.

KEILAR: We're coming upon four years after Parkland. I know Joaquin would be 21 now. I know you miss him dearly. And we'll be watching to see what answers you do get. Manuel, thank you so much.

OLIVER: Thank you.

[07:30:00]

Thank you very much.

KEILAR: Coming up, would the state of Missouri bury a study showing that mask mandates save lives. We'll have a reality check.