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Salim Abdool Karim is Interviewed about the Omicron Variant; China Developing Space Capabilities; Alan Simpson Remembers Bob Dole. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 06, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00]

SALIM ABDOOL KARIM, AFRICAN TASK FORCE FOR CORONAVIRUS: It's actually doing. So now, when we look at the epidemiological data, we've compared the three previous waves. And the rate at which they increase in the first seven days after the wave threshold. And what we have found is that the omicron variant is at a -- is doubling faster than any of the three previous waves.

What we have is that in omicron, over the first seven days, the doubling time is one and a half days. In other words, the epidemic is getting -- there are twice as many cases every day and a half. In the previous three waves, due to the delta, beta and the 614-G variant, the average was around two to 2.2 days in this initial upswing of cases. So certainly the early evidence, and I have to say it's very early, preliminary evidence, suggests that it is more transmissible.

KEILAR: And we are hearing, as we, of course, have concerns about transmissibility, we want to know about how severe it is. And there are some South African scientists who say that breathing doesn't seem to really be an issue for patients infected.

Is that what you're seeing? Can you explain this?

KARIM: Yes, so we have two sources of data. The first is anecdotal data from our doctors at the front line. I've been speaking to the chair of our medical association. She collects this data from all the doctors. And essentially what they are saying to us at this stage is that the cases are generally mild, seems to be slightly more people in the younger age groups. But the presentation is essentially similar to the way patients presented in the previous waves.

Now, one has to be very careful in overinterpreting that, because it's still very early days, in that severe cases, you know, usually take longer. They occur in, you know, weeks two, three and four. So it may be that severe cases will follow later. But certainly, at this stage, with the data we're seeing, in terms of these reports, there are no red flags.

The second is, data we get from our admissions database, now there's a bit of a lag, so it's running a few days behind. And what we saw very early on is we saw an increase in the number of hospitalizations in children below the age of five. Those -- that initial increase in children who are younger is now being offset in that it might have been just an early aberration. It's now easing off and the -- probably the proportions that are being admitted have been now correcting themselves.

It's also quite possible, because schools were open and preschools were open that we may have seen those cases emerging. But even the children who were admitted, who were mostly mild conditions. So not -- we haven't yet been seeing, you know, many severe cases. But, again, I want to just caution, you know, we've only known about this for a week, so it's still early days.

KEILAR: So mostly mild cases. Have there been any severe cases in kids? What can you tell us about that?

KARIM: Yes, so we have seen several severe cases in children. We would be expecting to see that. The ICUs have reported admissions of children as well, and adults, so we are seeing severe cases. But it's -- it's very different from the previous waves in that the previous waves, you know, there was this deluge and we became overwhelmed with, you know, just a lot of patients arriving early on. Even though this virus is transmitting faster, we aren't seeing that -- that same early pressure. Part of it is probably due to vaccines and some of it may be due to the actual clinical features of the virus itself. So, I think it's a mixed bag.

In terms of severe cases, they are presenting very much again like our past cases. The usual features we see, you know, with the respiratory deaths, the hypoxia, we put them onto oxygen, we pronate them, put them on dexamethasone, very standard treatment regimens that we continue to use. They seem to be working fine.

So, from a diagnostic point of view, Omicron's not a problem. Easily diagnosed from a clinical presentation. Doesn't seem to be a problem, although it's early days. And from a treatment point of view, doesn't seem to be of concern.

What might be a concern is relating to whether vaccines will hold against it. And there what we have seen in the latest information that's become available from our National Institute of Communicable Diseases is that we are seeing an increase in reinfection.

[08:35:01]

So there is an early analysis from one of our centers called Seseema (ph) that looked at the ratio of reinfections to new infections. And what we're seeing with omicron is an increase in reinfections. The ratio is 2.4. They're higher than what we saw in our previous waves.

Now, we expect some increase because we've had more past infections now, but this increase is way out of range, so that means it looks like past natural infection does not seem to be protecting to any significant extent from omicron infection.

On the vaccine front, we really don't have data yet. That's still to come.

KEILAR: OK. KARIM: We are seeing breakthrough infections in vaccinated individuals, but so far they've been mild. But I don't want to make too much of that, still too few cases to make any comment.

KEILAR: Yes, all the more reason, though, to get vaccinated, ensure that you have one of those mild cases here if you get it.

Salim Abdool Karim, Doctor, thank you so much.

KARIM: A pleasure. Thank you.

BERMAN: So, breaking just moments ago, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio announced that the city will implement a vaccine mandate for all private sector employers across the board as of December 27th. New York City will also strengthen vaccination screening at indoor public establishments, to include restaurants and theaters to include five to 11-year-olds. The vaccine mandate for private employers is interesting. I would love to learn more about exactly how that will be implements, what the requirements will be, whether there will be a testing option, exactly what that means, a size of company.

It's also interesting, December 27th is like a week before de Blasio leaves office. Well, it's two things. It's very soon from now but it's also about a week before he leaves office and I'm very curious to see or know if he has the sign-on from the incoming mayor, Eric Adams.

KEILAR: Yes, and with kids five to 11, that's also a really interesting regulation that's going to go into place. We'll have to see if other cities are going to follow suit. We'll keep an eye on that, that new development out of New York.

So, the Jussie Smollett trial is resuming less than an hour from now. Is he going to take the stand today in his own defense?

BERMAN: And, China threatening to blast way ahead in the space race with the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:11]

KEILAR: Time now for "5 Things to Know for Your New Day."

New rules begin today for international travelers coming to the U.S. Everyone will have to show proof of a negative Covid test taken within one day of departure for the U.S., and that applies whether you are a U.S. citizen or not. And then foreign nationals will have to prove that they are fully vaccinated.

BERMAN: The parents of the Oxford, Michigan, school shooting suspect under suicide watch and each being held on half a million dollars bond. James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with involuntary manslaughter after being captured at a Detroit warehouse.

KEILAR: Rescue workers in Indonesia are digging through thick layers of hot ash and debris to find survivors of a volcanic eruption that left at least 21 people dead and 17,000 displaced. Nearly 3,000 houses and 38 schools have been damaged or destroyed by the debris.

BERMAN: Actor Jussie Smollett's trial resumes today in Chicago. The big question is, will he take the stand? Last week two brothers told jurors that the former "Empire" actor plotted a fake racist and homophobic attack on himself and then paid them to carry it out.

KEILAR: And a lucky mistake for a North Carolina truck driver. Scotty Thomas couldn't remember if he'd already bought a Lucky for Life lottery ticket, so he bought another one and he won twice. That would be 25 Gs time two each year for life. But he chose the lump sum instead of the annual payments, netting just over $551,000.

BERMAN: Always take the lump sum. Congratulations to him, times two.

KEILAR: That's right.

BERMAN: So those are the "5 Things to Know for Your New Day." More on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Go to cnn.com/5things. You can also find it wherever you get your podcasts.

KEILAR: A top U.S. Space Force official saying that China could overtake America in the space race by the end of the decade. General David Thompson said China is developing its space capabilities at twice the rate of the U.S.

CNN's Kristin Fisher is joining us on this.

So that is quite the statement here. What does that mean for the U.S.?

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Quite the statement and it means that the U.S. is going to need to move very quickly in order to maintain U.S. superiority in space.

Over the weekend, I moderated this space panel at the Reagan National Defense Forum and every single panelist agreed that one of the biggest problems is just the bureaucracy that is built in to the acquisitions process. And this is not a new problem by any means, but it's a problem that's taken on increased urgency given China's recent test of that hypersonic weapon.

And just think about it like this. Over the last five years, China has tested hundreds of hypersonic weapons and the U.S. has only tested nine. It's a very stark contrast. It's only part of the problem.

But listen to what General David Thompson, the vice chief of space operations for the Space Force, listen to what he had to say about it.

[08:45:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. DAVID THOMPSON, VICE CHIEF OF SPACE OPERATIONS, U.S. SPACE FORCE: The fact that in essence, on average, they are building and fielding and updating their space capabilities at twice the rate we are means that very soon, if we don't start accelerating our development and delivery capabilities, they will exceed -- they will exceed us. And 2030 is not an unreasonable estimate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: I mean, that is just nine years away. And, you know, a big part of the reason that the Space Force was created was to move faster. But another panelist, Congressman Jim Cooper, says the Space Force just simply is not moving fast enough. And, Brianna, when I asked him point blank, is the U.S. now officially in a space race with China, he said -- not only did he say yes, he said "hell yes." So --

KEILAR: "Hell yes."

FISHER: Got a "hell yes."

KEILAR: Wow, that is -- it is an alarming statement that they're making there.

FISHER: Yes.

KEILAR: Kristin, thank you for that report.

FISHER: You bet.

KEILAR: Here's what else to watch today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m. ET, Supreme Court arguments.

1:00 p.m. ET, White House press briefing.

2:00 p.m. ET, President Biden speaks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: President Biden ready to announce a diplomatic boycott of next year's Beijing Olympics.

KEILAR: First, tributes pouring in for three-time presidential candidate Bob Dole. One of his Senate colleagues joining us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:18]

BERMAN: A live look at the White House with the flag at half-staff this morning in honor of long-time Republican senator and three-time presidential candidate Bob Dole. Born in a small Kansas town, Russell, Kansas, and raised during the Great Depression, Dole was seriously wounded trying to save a fellow soldier during World War II, weeks before the end of the war. His family says he died in his sleep Sunday at the age of 98, noting that he served the United States of America faithfully for 79 years.

With us now, Alan Simpson, former U.S. senator from Wyoming. He served as Republican whip in the Senate while Dole served as the party leader.

Senator, I really appreciate you joining us this morning. I'm prone to say thank you -- I mean I'm prone to say, sorry for your loss, but really I'm sorry for all of our loss here. Bob Dole, someone who meant so much to the country.

You say you would have gone over a cliff for that guy, what do you mean?

ALAN SIMPSON (R), FORMER WYOMING SENATOR (via telephone): Well, I was in the military, too, in the infantry, and he was, obviously, heavily decorated. And I said to him when I became the assistant leader -- I was his assistant leader for ten years -- I said, you know, I know what leadership is. You don't have to worry about anything. There's no footsteps behind you. I'm not interested in your job. And we made things work.

And he worked hard with the other side of the aisle. He worked well with Bob Dole -- Robert Byrd and then Daschle and Mitchell. I was the assistant when we had Al Cranston of California. He was not of my philosophy, ran for an anti-nuclear ticket is what he was, and then Wendell Ford. And he said, you know, we're not members of the Republican Party, we're Americans. And he was a very highly partisan guy but he -- and he loved his partisan politics, but when it right came down to the -- to the final deal, he said, you know, we're not just -- be here for the Democrat Party or the Republican Party, we're here for Americans. That's a whole new pitch out here in Washington.

BERMAN: Yes.

Look, you also said, what can you do to a guy who's laid in a hospital bed for three years? You can't spook him. He's invulnerable.

SIMPSON: I did say that. You know, and if he -- people would come at him, you know, and they'd say, well, he -- he's doing this or don't -- and he -- he -- he had on a (INAUDIBLE) a sense of humor sometimes, but he had a great sense of humor. And that was what saved him. And for me it was just in akin with my life, my mother taught me that humor is the universal solvent against the abrasive elements of life and one that some would -- they'd hit the button and come for him, he'd just grin and say, well, what's up, you know, and grab that left arm and -- and the big smile. And he was -- he was -- he was -- he lived that way or he wouldn't have been 90 plus years old with the stuff -- the (INAUDIBLE) that came in as to legislation and his candidate for the presidency.

And one of the worst things that I watched was, when he ran for president, some of his senior staff, not the ones that I knew, but some of the heavyweights out there said, you know, don't use your sense of humor. Well, hell, that was -- that was his left leg, and his right leg. That was his persona. And because he -- and it came across, you know, as what's happened to Bob Dole? He -- he didn't have his usual sense of balance, humor. All I can tell you is that was a joy and a privilege for me at 90 to think of my career, checkered as it was. BERMAN: Well, Senator Simpson, we've been showing a bunch of pictures

of you and also of the late Senator Dole smiling, laughing, enjoying each other. Again, sorry for your loss, sorry for our loss. I appreciate you being with us this morning.

Thank you, Senator.

SIMPSON: Well, thank you so much. You're very kind. Thank you.

BERMAN: Back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:59:20]

KEILAR: Time now for "The Good Stuff."

Kennedy Center honors back and last night with this year's honorees, Bette Midler, Joni Mitchell, Barry Gordy and "SNL" creator Lorne Michaels.

President Biden kidding Michaels about all the comedians who have played him over the years. Watch as Steve Martin joins in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's trying out seven guys to play me.

As we say in our family, bless me, Father, for I have sinned. If you can't laugh at yourself, we're in real trouble. And you make me laugh at myself a lot.

STEVE MARTIN, ACTOR: You want me to play you?

[09:00:02]

BIDEN: Steve, I'm afraid you understand me too well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)