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Dramatic Revelations as Meadows Contempt Charges Advance; FOX Hosts Exposed in Texts for Telling Audience Untruths. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 14, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Tuesday, December 14. I'm John Berman. Brianna is off today. Chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins here with me in New York.

[05:;59:29]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: Happy to be here. Glad you're back from Kentucky.

BERMAN: What -- Look, there's so much need down there, and we're going to focus on that need throughout the show. But there is other major news this morning, as well.

Overnight, text messages revealed that reframe the January 6th investigation. Text messages to former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, from Donald Trump Jr., from FOX entertainers, from Trump administration officials, even from lawmakers, that all privately and, for a time, unsuccessfully beg to do something to stop the violence as the attack unfolded at the Capitol.

So there's plenty of focus about people speaking out of both sides of their mouths on TV about this. And while that is plenty salacious, there are truly important legal implications here. What could be a road map to exactly what the White House knew, what the White House did, what the White House didn't do, even what some in the White House may have coordinated before, during, and after the attack.

It certainly shows an acute, keen awareness that the Capitol was under siege. Donald Trump Jr. writes Meadows about his father: "He's got to condemn this shit ASAP.

Laura Ingraham writes, "This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy."

Brian Kilmeade writes, "Please get him on TV."

And Sean Hannity writes, "Ask people to leave the Capitol."

COLLINS: Of course, the same people who were pleading with Mark Meadows that day have spent months downplaying the insurrection, saying publicly the opposite of what they were texting privately. Here's how Meadows responded last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: What they've done is had a contempt vote. We've tried very hard, in a very transparent and accommodating way, to share non-privileged information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

MEADOWS: And what we found out tonight is -- is that not only did that just get disregarded, but then they tried to weaponize text messages, selectively leak them, to put out a narrative that, quite frankly, the president didn't act.

And I can tell you, this is -- the president did act. This is all about -- you know, it's not holding me in contempt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MEADOWS: It's about coming after President Donald Trump. And sadly, that's what tonight's vote was all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Republican congresswoman and vice chair of the January 6th House Committee Liz Cheney read the texts aloud as the panel gathered to advance the contempt of Congress charge against Mark Meadows. The full House is expected to vote on the resolution today.

So let's get to CNN's Whitney Wild, live in Washington now, with more on this dramatic new evidence that we got last night -- Whitney.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, what these candid text messages really show is this growing dismay throughout the course of the riot within Trump's inner circle, and it shows that all of these people were basically pleading with the one man they thought could change the president's mind and try to get him to condemn the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MI): Those in favor say aye.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aye.

THOMPSON: Those opposed, say no.

WILD (voice-over): Members of the January 6th Committee voting to formally advance a criminal contempt report against Mark Meadows, the former White House chief of staff.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): This is a near unique moment in history, as we vote on whether to hold a former colleague in contempt of Congress. Mark Meadows has committed a crime, in this case, a premeditated one. WILD: But before that vote, the committee revealed text messages from

then-President Donald Trump's allies in the media, showing them calling for him to act as thousands of pro-Trump rioters were pounding the Capitol building. Attempting to violently disrupt the certification of the presidential election.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The gentleman will proceed.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Multiple FOX News hosts knew the president needed to act immediately. They texted Mr. Meadows, and he has turned over those texts.

Quote, "Mark, the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy," Laura Ingraham wrote.

"Please, get him on TV. Destroying everything you have accomplished," Brian Kilmeade texted.

Quote, "Can he make a statement? Ask people to leave the Capitol," Sean Hannity urged.

WILD: From FOX News personalities to Trump's own son.

CHENEY: As the violence continued, one of the president's sons texted Mr. Meadows. Quote, "He's got to condemn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ASAP. The Capitol police tweet is not enough," Donald Trump Jr. texted.

Meadows responded, quote, "I'm pushing it hard. I agree."

Still, President Trump did not immediately act. Donald Trump Jr. texted again and again, urging action by the president. Quote, "We need an Oval Office address. He has to lead now. It has gone too far and gotten out of hand."

WILD: And also a message from an unnamed lawmaker sent after the violence.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Just the last message I want to highlight, again from a lawmaker in the aftermath of January 6th. Yesterday was a terrible day. We tried everything we could in our objection to the six states. I'm sorry nothing worked."

The day after a failed attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power through violence, an elected lawmaker tells the White House chief of staff, "I'm sorry nothing worked."

[06:05:11]

WILD: These chilling text messages were voluntarily handed over by Mark Meadows. A top White House official on January 6th, Meadows stopped cooperating suddenly with the House Select Committee.

THOMPSON: It comes down to this. Mr. Meadows started by doing the right thing, cooperating. He handed over records that he didn't try to shield behind some excuse.

But in an investigation like ours, that's just the first step. When the records raise questions, as these most certainly do, you have to come in and answer those questions. And when it's time for him to follow the law, come in and testify on those questions, he changed his mind and told us to pound sand. He didn't even show up.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): This witness must testify, like 300 other witnesses before him have done, either voluntarily and proudly as a patriotic citizen, or at least under compulsion of subpoena by the Congress of the United States.

WILD: A Congress that is trying to uncover what Meadows could be withholding.

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): supremThe Supreme Court has made very clear that executive privilege is not absolute, and that's exactly what Mr. Meadows is claiming. And the fact that he sent us all these documents shows that he understands that he doesn't enjoy absolute privilege.

WILD: Representative Pete Aguilar also told reporters that he believes Meadows backed away from his promise to cooperate because, quote, "President Trump told him to."

But the members of the Select Committee are not backing down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He owes us an explanation, and we need to get it. And his unlawful refusal to answer the questions about the material that he has acknowledged is not subject to executive privilege.

WILD: Reacting on Sean Hannity's show Monday night to the contempt vote, Meadows attempted to shift the narrative.

MEADOWS: Obviously, it's disappointing but not surprising. And -- and let's be clear about this, Sean. This is not about me, holding me in contempt. It's not even about me making the Capitol safer. We see that by some of the selective leaks that are going on right now.

This is about Donald Trump and about actually going after him once again, continuing to go after Donald Trump. And -- and when we look at the real results of this investigation, it is not really -- the foundation is not based on a legislative purpose.

Very high probability that they will refer me for criminal contempt to DOJ.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: What will you do, Congressman?

MEADOWS: At this point, Sean, you know, it'll be turned over to the hands of DOJ. I can say this, that when you look at -- at the criminal component of this, the intent, there's never been an intent on my part. I've tried to share non-privileged information.

But truly, the executive privilege that Donald Trump has claimed is his to waive. It's not mine to waive. It is not Congress' to waive. And that's why we filed the lawsuit to hopefully get the courts to weigh in. Hopefully, they'll weigh in.

WILD: Meanwhile, the House Select Committee has a strong warning to Mark Meadows and all other potential witnesses who refuse to comply with the panel's subpoenas.

THOMPSON: If you are listening at home, Mr. Meadows, Mr. Bannon, Mr. Clark, I want you to know this: History will be written about these times, about the work this committee has undertaken, and history will not look upon any of you as martyrs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILD: The next step here is for this referral for a criminal contempt charge to go to the House floor, Kaitlan, where it will very likely pass. Then, it will go over to the Department of Justice, where it will eventually be up to Attorney General Merrick Garland to decide how to handle this referral.

COLLINS: Yes. We'll see how the attorney general does handle it. But it's still remarkable in and of itself that a majority of the House is expected to do this, given of course, Mark Meadows was in the House once. Whitney Wild, thank you so much for that.

BERMAN: I want to bring in CNN senior political analyst John Avlon; CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp; and "EARLY START" anchor and attorney-at-law Laura Jarrett.

And Laura, I actually want to start with you here. Because for all the things that happened yesterday, and FOX News this, FOX News that, I think this investigation changed, at least as far as what the public knows about it. Because what has always been missing since January 6th is what exactly was going on inside the White House during those hours? What was happening?

And now, we have this road map of at least the incoming messages here.

LAURA JARRETT, CNN "EARLY START" ANCHOR: And a damning portrait, I think, of a lot of inaction, right? We have someone who's occupying one of the highest positions in the White House, getting a deluge of incoming messages from people who are sheltering in place in Congress saying, "Please, please help me."

[06:10:11]

And we have a president who essentially failed to call the fire department after lighting a match that set this entire fire.

And the damning portrait of inaction, I think, is what they need to flesh out a little bit. Because we're getting sort of just the one side of the conversation, which is, "Please, please stop this." What was he saying in response?

We know from so much great reporting out there that he was enjoying the spectacle on television that he was watching unfold that day, but we need more information now. Because we just have that little sliver of the one side of the conversation. COLLINS: Well, and that's the thing. We don't know what Meadows did

with these messages. Did he go directly to Trump? We do know he was one of the very few people who wanted to be around the president that day.

Our reporting was that a lot of people were avoiding the Oval Office as all of this was going on. But what does it tell you that they can no longer deny that they didn't know what was happening on Capitol Hill, because they were getting texts from people at the Capitol saying, We are literally under siege here.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's what's so significant. That and, I think, the fact that the Trump-FOX feedback loop has been totally exposed.

All these people who have been trying to ritualistically downplay this attack on our democracy, saying it was -- you know, it was a mostly peaceful protest. You know, could have been a -- it was tourists on a -- you know, in areas they weren't supposed to be in a time they weren't supposed to be there. They were lying. They knew instinctively in real time that this is a desperate moment, that the Capitol was being attacked.

They were pleading to the president, showing that they were really functioning as political functionaries, nothing resembling journalists, in that administration.

And so all their public denials, both in Congress and on TV, are all lies. They all knew the truth in real time, because it was self- evident, and they've tried to create a false impression going forward to protect the president, protect the administration, to protect their own reputations. They played their audiences for fools.

BERMAN: And S.E., this is something that John Avlon actually has talked a lot about. Liz Cheney also made what I think is just a direct reference to the fact that she thinks Donald Trump may have broken the law.

In her statement, she said, "Did Donald Trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede Congress' proceeding?" She said that because there's a law against that. And she clearly thinks the answer is yes, at least might be yes there.

But there is a specific law about impeding the action of Congress. And if Trump is doing that, and if that can be proved, and if these texts are a road map to his complicity here, it does raise the question of, does Liz Cheney expect some kind of criminal referral against Donald Trump?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's clear, through a lot of these text messages and what we're learning in this hearing, why Republicans wanted to run away from this hearing, why Republicans didn't want this to happen.

Because imagine if we had the text messages of every member of Congress or of everyone in the White House that day. I think it would be pretty damning.

And we'll learn a lot from this commission. You know, Republicans who are not Adam Kinzinger or Liz Cheney are calling it performance or a takedown of Donald Trump. But it really is revealing perhaps criminal action or inaction by the president, and again, makes you wonder what DOJ is waiting for. Perhaps this. Perhaps this commission. To finally, you know, lob some charges over at Trump and the folks who were around him on that day.

It seems very clear, I think, to people watching that he did not follow the law and perhaps broke the law.

COLLINS: And Laura, before we get to the aspect of the relationships with the FOX News hosts who were clearly pleading with Mark Meadows, the most dramatic piece that they unveiled last night were these texts from Donald Trump Jr.

And so what does it say to you that he was going to the chief of staff, not -- doesn't appear directly to his dad. We don't know exactly whether or not he directly appeared to his own father. But he was going to the chief of staff at the time to try to get him to get through to his dad about this.

JARRETT: So I don't have a psychology degree. I can't speak to sort of the bizarre father/son dynamics happening there. But again, it does speak to sort of the facade that has been created, the whitewashing of the insurrection versus the reality of what we all know was happening behind the scenes. And clearly, even Donald Trump Jr. knew it had gotten out of hand, to use his words.

AVLON: Yes. And I think it also speaks to the fact that people were trying to convince the president, apparently, to do what was right, to do what was responsible, self-evidently, and he was resisting. They were trying to figure out how to get to him.

So Mark Meadows is one of the few people entering the Oval, based on existing reporting, around that time. And the president, based on reporting, is seemingly enjoying this. And so that chapter is going to be called, "Some People Just Like to Watch the World Burn." That's what the president of the United States was doing.

[06:15:04]

BERMAN: I will tell you, I don't have a psychology degree either, but I'm a father and son. And to me, it's just sad. It's just so sad. Someone tell Daddy that the Capitol is burning down. Because he won't -- he won't --

JARRETT: Because Daddy's not listening.

BERMAN: He won't respond to me.

JARRETT: Yes, yes.

BERMAN: I can't reach him. So you do the telling.

AVLON: Someone tell Daddy to do something.

COLLINS: Well, I also think it speaks to the level -- because Trump Jr. is seen as one of the members of the family who's most in touch with the former president's base, and that whole MAGA crowd. The fact that he was even reaching out, trying to appeal, says a lot.

We do also have a lot, of course, on these relationships with the FOX News hosts and what they were also saying to the former chief of staff, despite, of course, what they were saying publicly about this.

Plus, swing state Democrats are now warning that the party isn't doing enough about the big lie takeover at the grassroots level. What they believe should be happening.

BERMAN: And just in, we have big news out of South Africa. This is a big chunk of the data that we've been waiting for, to learn about what the Omicron variant does. How many more people are getting sick? How much more severe is the illness? Does it evade vaccines? We're starting to get some of these answers, and they're very important.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:19]

COLLINS: Three FOX News hosts were frantically texting Mark Meadows on January 6th, urging him to get President Trump to stop the attack on the Capitol. But you'd never know they were so concerned by watching them on TV.

Several of them have spent the last 11 months publicly whitewashing and downplaying and deflecting blame on what they privately found so disturbing as it was happening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: We also knew that there's always bad actors that will infiltrate large crowds. I don't care if they're radical left, radical right. I don't care who they are.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: I have never seen Trump rally attendees wearing helmets, black helmets, brown helmets, black backpacks.

HANNITY: They knew that they could just easily find out and determine hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people are going to show up, because they did. They were descending onto the town. And there they go. They're there to peacefully protest.

And we had the reports that groups like Antifa, other radical groups -- I don't know the names of all of them -- that they were there to cause trouble.

I want to explain in detail, if I can, what today is -- is about and why people are feeling the way they're feeling, to the extent that I think I can. And this is not something that is -- has happened here in a vacuum. INGRAHAM: They're going to do anything to keep that narrative alive of

January 6th because, I don't know, if Liz Cheney runs out of space in the GOP's big tent --

HANNITY: Why isn't Liz Cheney looking into the 500-plus riots that took place in cities all across the country in 2020?

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: The FBI will infiltrate groups, whether it's the mob or al Qaeda, and they're try to be one of them and to unwind a pot (ph) before it takes place.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Right.

KILMEADE: Do you think maybe, perhaps -- and maybe you don't want to give away your theories -- you find indications that the FBI was actually pushing for this invasion?

HANNITY: The latest political charade on Capitol Hill, and that is Nancy Pelosi's January 6th Commission. And literally, it has one mission and one mission only: Oh, let's see if we can impeach, and smear and slander, and -- Donald Trump one more time and, of course, the GOP one more time on national television.

KILMEADE: And why is it that every other network, if you took January 6th out of their rundown, they'd have a test pattern?

CARLSON: Exactly.

KILMEADE: This is all they cover. It's unbelievable.

INGRAHAM: There was certainly a lot of violence that day, but it was not a terrorist attack. It wasn't 9/11. It wasn't the worst thing that ever happened to America. It wasn't an insurrection.

The theatrics were intended to promote an emotional reaction, logic and facts be dammed. It was with that knowledge that we will unveil the Angle Awards for today's best performances.

God save us from these third-rate theatrics. Now the award for Best Use of an Exaggeration in a Supporting Role, the winner is Aquilina Grinnell (Ph).

For Best Performance in an Action Role, the winner is Michael Fanone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Back with us, John Avlon, S.E. Cupp, and Laura Jarrett.

S.E., I am curious about what would happen if Brian Kilmeade, Sean Hannity, and Laura Ingraham ever met Brian Kilmeade, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham.

CUPP: I mean, it's -- it's funny, but it's also incredibly sad, because they've just been hoodwinking their viewers for the past five plus years, insisting with all the passion and fury that they really believe what they're telling them. And then they go home at night, and they kind of laugh about it, I'm sure.

Because if you listen to these text messages, if you read them, it's clear they knew that day that it was bad. And I'm sure they've known Trump was dangerous all along.

I know this because I talk to FOX News people who tell me, Yes, this is messed up, man. And not five minutes later, I'm watching them on television defending Donald Trump.

I just want to go back, though, to one thing John said, John Avlon. And I understand his point. That it looks like at least some of these people were trying to get Trump to, quote, "do the right thing."

I don't think so. When you look at these texts, Laura Ingraham and Kilmeade are imploring Mark Meadows based on saving Trump's legacy, not doing the right thing. They're saying that Trump is destroying his legacy, not democracy. Forget about the fact that he's literally destroying democracy right now. The problem is his legacy.

So I wouldn't even give them that much credit, to think that sort of in the 11th hour, they started feeling really bad about what was happening to America. I think they started feeling really bad about what was happening to Donald Trump.

AVLON: And I'll add to that --

CUPP: Yes.

AVLON: -- what was happening to them.

JARRETT: Yes.

CUPP: Yes.

AVLON: Because the other half of the Laura Ingraham text you just -- you just read, this is hurting his legacy, is this is hurting all of us. And the "all of us" there doesn't mean Americans.

[06:25:09]

CUPP: Right.

AVLON: It means all of us who have been propping up and are invested in this administration as part of this collusion, the water carriers for Donald Trump in the media and the administration. That's who this is hurting. It's hurting their legacy.

And I the think that's exactly the right point. They felt invested, and they were watching Donald Trump hurt them. And that's what they cared about far more than democracy, the Capitol, the country, or their fellow citizens.

JARRETT: But even as of this morning, their viewers are in no better position to understand what really happened that day because, of course, despite Hannity's texts, he brings Meadows on last night. Of course, they don't talk about it. He's not asked about it. It never comes up.

So if you are a regular FOX viewer at home, you're not getting the truth. You've been lied to for years, and you've been lied to last night. And you will continue to be lied to today.

COLLINS: Yes. And I think, also, you know, the question of what it means from a media perspective, of how cozy this relationship was, that they were texting the chief of staff that, and they are hosts on FOX News, and saying, this is destroying the legacy of Trump, that concerned about his legacy.

But I can't imagine the former president is that happy that he's reading these texts from people he thinks are his allies. And the way he viewed that day, which we know -- we don't have a lot of insight into what was happening inside the West Wing -- but we know from what we were hearing from people who were speaking with him that day, that he was borderline enthusiastic about what was happening. That's what I was told by someone.

And so -- But I can't imagine he's happy to see Sean Hannity reaching out to Mark Meadows, talking about what he needs to be doing.

JARRETT: But it's benign. He's saying, Can he make a statement? Of course, he can make a statement. He's the president of the United States. He can go to the Oval Office. I mean, it's --

AVLON: The country is under attack.

JARRETT: The country is under attack. And it's so sort of pedestrian in relation to what's happening.

COLLINS: Of course, the statement he did make, two hours later he said, You're special. We love you.

AVLON: We love you.

COLLINS: And he said he understood why they were angry. That was something that also stood out.

AVLON: Yes. Because he felt the country was under attack on his behalf, which he liked.

But I don't think enough can be made of the fact that these FOX anchors were acting like, as they did --

JARRETT: Unpaid advisers.

AVLON: Unpaid advisors every day. They were political enablers. Nothing resembling journalists. They were so far embedded in this administration that they didn't know where the administration ended and they began.

BERMAN: I will say, as we wrap up discussion -- we'll talk much more about this later on also -- one thing I don't want to overlook is that all of this discussion is spurred on by documents and emails and texts that Mark Meadows turned over voluntarily, right? Imagine what's in the National Archives that the Supreme Court's going

to get to weigh in on soon. Imagine what could be in there. How much more we could learn here. Laura, I know you also point out, this also raises questions about what he's communicating on.

JARRETT: A good majority, we know, are being done on his personal cell phone. So put aside the fact that he's violated the National Records Act. He may not care about that. But he has also vitiated (ph) his claims to privilege by doing this on his personal cell phone.

COLLINS: And writing about it in his book, which he talks about, what conversations that he and the former president had after that speech, after that rally on the Ellipse that day.

BERMAN: John Avlon, S.E. Cupp, in absentia. S.E., we miss you in person. And Laura Jarrett, as well.

CUPP: I miss you, too.

BERMAN: Thank you very much for being with us.

So in Kentucky, the search-and-recovery effort this morning after the deadly tornado devastated that state and so many others. We are live in Mayfield ahead.

COLLINS: Plus, the numbers that you have been waiting for on the Omicron variant. What a South African study, a major one, says about the chances of being hospitalized if you have that strain of the virus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)