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Dramatic Revelations as Meadows Contempt Charges Advance; Fox Hosts Condemned Violence Privately, Whitewashed Publicly. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired December 14, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: All right. Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Tuesday, December 14th. I'm John Berman. Brianna is off. Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins here with me this morning.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN NEW DAY: Thanks for having me and all the poinsettias around us this morning.

BERMAN: We set them up just for you.

Overnight, text messages reveal that really do reframe the January 6th investigation. Text messages to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows from Donald Trump Jr., from Fox entertainers, from Trump administration officials, even from some lawmakers, that all privately, and for a time, unsuccessfully begged to do something to stop the violence as the attack unfolded at the Capitol.

Now, there's a lot of focus this morning on people speaking out of both sides of their mouths, entertainers at Fox. And while that is salacious, there are some truly important, legal implications here. What could be a roadmap to exactly what the White House knew, what the White House did, what the White House didn't do, even what some of the White House may have coordinated or known before, during and after the attack. It certainly shows an acute, keen awareness that the Capitol was under siege.

COLLINS: The messages were read aloud last night by Republican Congresswoman and Vice Chair of the January 6 Committee House Liz Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Multiple Fox News hosts knew the president needed to act immediately. They texted Mr. Meadows, and he has turned over those texts. Quote, Mark, the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy, Laura Ingraham wrote. Please, get him on T.V. Destroying everything you have accomplished, Ryan Kilmeade texted. Quote, can he make a statement? Ask people to leave the Capitol, Sean Hannity urged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Those are from Fox News hosts. But some of the most dramatic messages were from the president's own son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: As the violence continued, one of the president's sons texted Mr. Meadows, quote, he's got to condemn this shit ASAP. The Capitol police tweet is not enough, Donald Trump Jr. texted. Meadows responded, quote, I'm pushing it hard. I agree. Still, President Trump did not immediately act.

Donald Trump Jr. texted again and again, urging action by the president, quote, we need an Oval Office address. He has to lead now. It has gone too far and gotten out of hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: And, finally, Congressman Adam Schiff read a message that an unnamed lawmaker sent after the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Here's the last message I want to highlight, again from a lawmaker in the aftermath of January 6th, if we could cue graphic number three. Yesterday was a terrible day. We tried everything we could in our objection to the six states. I'm sorry nothing worked, the day after a failed attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power through violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Adam Schiff didn't name which lawmaker sent that message. Of course, Donald Trump Jr. and former President Trump's media allies are now downplaying the severity of the insurrection, singing a very different tune on their shows every night. Here's how Mark Meadows responded to that procedure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: What they've done is had a contempt vote. We've tried very hard, in a very transparent and accommodating way, to share non-privileged information. And what we found out tonight is that not only did that just get disregarded but then they tried to weaponize text messages, selectively leaked them, to put out a narrative that, quite frankly, that the president didn't act.

And I can tell you, the president did act. This is all about -- it's not about holding me in contempt. It is about coming after President Donald Trump. And, sadly, that's what tonight's vote was all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The panel voted unanimously to advance the contempt of Congress charges against Meadows last night, and the full House is expected to vote on the resolution today.

BERMAN: All right. Joining me now, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Elie Honig. Elie, talk to me about what you think the most important revelations are from these Meadows text messages and why the panel is so focused on them.

[07:05:04]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: John, now we know for sure, Mark Meadows was at the heart of this. He was the direct line to then- President Donald Trump. And these texts and emails that have come out, dozens of them, are utterly damning to Mark Meadows, to Donald Trump and to many others.

Here's what the committee said about why they're so focused on Mark Meadows. Mark Randall Meadows, they used his middle name, you know they're ticked off, is uniquely situated to provide critical information about the events January of6th. He was with or in the vicinity of Trump on January 6th as Mr. Trump learned of the attack on the Capitol.

Now, these texts that we've now seen, dozens of them, but a common theme from lawmakers, from former administration officials, from media sources, was, basically, this is on you, Mark Meadows and Donald Trump, and only one person can stop it. Liz Cheney read us these texts. We are under siege here at the Capitol. POTUS has to come out and firmly and tell protesters to dissipate. Someone is going to get killed and POTUS needs to calm this blank down.

Also, some of Donald Trump's most ardent defenders, who have claimed January 6th was no big deal, we know they felt differently in the moment. Donald Trump Jr., quote, he's got to condemn this blank ASAP. Sean Hannity, can he make a statement? Ask people to leave the Capitol.

Keep in mind, these are just the texts that Mark Meadows decided to hand over to the committee. There's others that he said, I'm not going to give you.

BERMAN: So, he knew the severity of what was going on during this timeframe, during this gap, which we really haven't had much visibility on for some time, it's significant. Let's just focus on Meadows for a second now. What is the process here for him now that the committee voted unanimously to refer him to criminal contempt?

HONIG: So, last night was step one, the select committee has now voted to refer for contempt. Today, it will go to the full House of Representatives. All they need a majority vote. Of course, Democrats hold a narrow majority in the House. Then the key moment, it will go over to the Justice Department, ultimately, Merrick Garland. Remember, it's not up to Congress whether Mark Meadows gets charged criminally. It's up to DOJ. If he does get charged, there is a federal crime for contempt of Congress.

Now, it's a misdemeanor. Meaning, it is less serious than a felony, still serious though. The maximum penalty is 12 months in prison and a $1,000 fine. Interestingly, there is a minimum of one month. You almost never see that with a misdemeanor. Meaning, if Mark Meadows gets convicted, if anyone gets convicted, Bannon, Jeffrey Clark, they have to go to jail for one month.

Importantly, this does not compel testimony. This does not force Mark Meadows to testify. This is aimed at punishment and deterrence.

BERMAN: Which I think is an important point here, never has to talk. He never does. He can take the Fifth if he does choose to talk, but this doesn't compel him to talk. Listen, Merrick Garland, this is a different decision than Steve Bannon.

HONIG: It sure is. Let's do a little tale of the tape here, okay? Steve Bannon was not a part of the executive branch. Mark Meadows was the White House chief of staff. That makes it easier to charge Bannon. Next, Steve Bannon has -- remember, Steve Bannon partially complied -- I'm sorry, Steve Bannon completely defied the committee. Mark Meadows partially complied. He partially defied them. So, again, easier to charge Bannon. Next, Steve Bannon never waived the privilege. Mark Meadows arguably did waive the privilege because he wrote his book and because he produced all these documents, so that weighs in favor of Mark Meadows.

But, importantly, for both of them, we're talking about an invocation of the executive privilege by a former president. The D.C. court of appeals has said, that doesn't work here. So, I think they could both be charged. Meadows is going to be a tougher case. That doesn't mean he is in the clear though.

BERMAN: Elie, you say what I think is actually the most important thing for last year, and that's Liz Cheney making clear, or at least opening to the door to the idea that what happened during these hours may have been a crime, inside the White House.

HONIG: So, Liz Cheney said something that made my prosecutorial ears perk up. Here is what she said, did Donald Trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede Congress' proceedings? Now, that's sounds legalistic. Guess what? It is. Here's a federal crime for obstruction of Congress, to corruptly obstruct or impede the due and proper administration of the law by Congress. It almost seemed like she was reading right out of the statute book.

Keep in mind now, one of the important things the January 6th committee can do is make a criminal referral over to DOJ, saying, hey, DOJ, we believe there may have been crimes here. But, again, ultimately, the charge of whether to bring criminal charges is up to Merrick Garland, is up to the Justice Department.

BERMAN: See, I think this is the most important thing. For all the talk about who said what, what Fox News person said this, that and the other thing, I think this is the most important thing here because this is the law. And this committee may, they may be telling us they're looking at referring for criminal charges.

HONIG: Also, much higher penalties than contempt of Congress.

BERMAN: All right. Elie, thank you very much.

HONIG: Thank you so much. BERMAN: Kaitlan?

COLLINS: One of the most dramatic moments that we have seen in this, and, of course, I want to bring -- let's bring in CNN Political Analyst David Gregory and Sophia Nelson, she was the investigative committee counsel to the House Republican majority on the government reform and oversight committee.

David, I want to start with you, because we knew Mark Meadows had a role here. Obviously, he was the former chief of staff.

[07:10:00]

He produced all of these documents and then decided to stop cooperating with the committee. But the extent of his role on that day became a lot clearer last night.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that's an important point, the extent of his role that day, because he is on the receiving end of all of these pleas, by family members, which was so compel compelling, by other Republicans, who in private said this is going to hell. This has gone too far, we're helpless, then publicly have come out to defend the former president. So, he's helping us understand that what we hear in response to January 6th is not on the level. People who were there, people in the White House, people connected with the president, people who were allies of the president knew how serious this was, only to try to downplay it later on. And Meadows is the key to that. And it's not just that day, of course. Why Meadows is so important -- John Karl writes about this in his book, Betrayal -- is because of the role he plays in trying to pressure officials, like in Georgia, to deny the slate of electors that were going to be certified, to somehow intervene in the process. So there's a lot to learn here.

COLLINS: Yes. And, Sophia, Meadows is also a former member of the Oversight Committee. He is arguing, you can't compel senior White House officials to testify, as his argument that he is not cooperating. But does the fact that he turned over all these documents undercut the argument that he's trying to make here?

SOPHIA NELSON, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, THE GRIO: Yes. I think he is double minded. I think what these texts reveal, and I think what we're learning is that everything we thought we saw, we saw. Mark Meadows and the Fox News gang and others have tried to make us believe that we didn't see the insurrection on January 6th.

But, you know, Kaitlan, what is important, this started well before January 6th. I said on CNN back last fall after the election, this was a soft coup attempt when they began to try to interfere with the electors in Georgia and other places, to put pressure on people, not having a clue, of course, that January 6th would happen, and then, of course, January 6th happened. So, I think that what Mark Meadows is trying to do is have it both ways.

And I'm really proud of this committee because Congress has to exert its Article 1 powers here, or future generations of Congress have no power. It's going to be interesting to see what DOJ does on this once it is referred to, assuming that it passes the House today, which I expect it to do, the contempt, that is.

COLLINS: Yes, we do expect it to pass the House. And we know it took the Justice Department about three weeks to act when it came to Steve Bannon. So, we will be watching to see how they choose to handle Mark Meadows when it comes to this.

David, I wonder what you make of what we're learning about the timeline of that day, when it comes to the messages not just from the Fox News hosts but also, most tellingly, from the former president's own son, Donald Trump Jr., who was texting Mark Meadows in all of this instead of, it seemed, directly appealing to his father who was sitting in the Oval Office.

GREGORY: Well, you know, we're left to speculate about a lot of things, which is why the committee is pursuing Mark Meadows. And it is amazing that Mark Meadows is happy to write a book about his experience but can't be bothered to testify on the grounds of executive privilege. And the legal track is difficult here. We don't know the outcome.

But the political track, the investigative track on the part of Congress' is very, very important. And the fact that the president's own son -- I mean, again, as has been said, right, yes, what we saw with our own eyes was actually happening. And what was going on behind the scenes was, in fact, worse. Because even those who are just ridiculously, blindly behind the president and his efforts to undermine the election and interfere with our democratic process knows that it has gone too far.

So, it is critical to know what the president was actually thinking, what he was telling others. Was he being defiant in the face of what his own family was saying was such a grave mistake that he had unleashed, that he had committed? That's what is so compelling about his own son who, let's be clear, Donald Trump Jr. has not been a responsible political actor during the Trump presidency at all. So, to get this window into his concern shows you how serious everybody knew that it was.

And what Meadows was being told by the president at that time is important for our -- for not just our politics but for our democracy as we go forward.

COLLINS: Yes. And the issue with him not cooperating any further, not going into answer questions, is then he can't talk about what he did with these messages and whether or not he went to the former president that day. And there is like a bit of a black hole from January 6th, from that day, of what was happening in those hours --

GREGORY: And what the discussions were like.

COLLINS: Exactly, what was the former president saying. We have an idea, but we don't know exactly, of course, firsthand what Mark Meadows himself heard. But, Sophia, we did hear last night, members were talking about what even former Trump administration officials were saying that day, not just Fox News hosts and the former president's family, but their own officials inside the White House who were urging action, saying that Trump needed to come out and firmly tell the protesters to dissipate. Someone is going to get killed. In another message, they said, Mark, he needs to stop this now. And a third, they said in all caps, tell them to go home. So, this was coming even from inside the administration.

NELSON: Right. But let's go back to the beginning. Donald Trump had no intention of stopping them because, again, he had been telling the big lie since he lost the election in November. And if you want insight into what the president was thinking at that time, he told you in that horrible video that came out afterwards, talking about how much we love you and we know you're upset. You think if that had been a Black Lives Matter protest or any other protest in this country, people of color running up on the Capitol like that, that would have been the response? I don't think so.

So, the fact of the matter is we know what Donald Trump was thinking. We know he didn't protect his vice president, Mike Pence. We know there was tension there and a lot of pressure being put on Pence. This was the plan, folks. Wake up. This is not a secret anymore. He did not intend for this to stop, and I think only once the pressure from maybe those who didn't know, Kaitlan, what was going on, those working in the White House, maybe the Fox hosts and some others who didn't really know about the PowerPoint, et cetera, I think they were shocked as we were shocked. But I don't think Trump was shocked at all.

COLLINS: Yes. And we will wait to see --

GREGORY: Can I just add one point? I think what's --

COLLINS: Yes, go ahead.

GREGORY: What Sophia says I think is so important about imagine if this were a Black Lives Matter protest. And I would add to that by my test of imagine if the Democrats had been the perpetrators here, what Republican leaders would now be doing to those who perpetrated this, if they had sympathies for a Democratic president, how harsh it would be. I go back to 9/11 and the response to 9/11. And if anyone was perceived on the Democratic side as being unpatriotic, not supporting the so-called Patriot Act, being unpatriotic when it came to all of the military responses, they were derided as soft, as coddling terrorists, as unpatriotic. It was swift and it was punishing.

Can you imagine what the response would be from Republican leaders if Democrats had been leading the charge here on attacking the Capitol? I always like to put that filter on these discussions because it would really be revealing.

COLLINS: It's good perspective. Sophia Nelson, David Gregory, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

GREGORY: Thanks. COLLINS: Up next, you'll see what the Fox News hosts were saying on the air despite their texts pleading with the White House to call off the attack.

Plus, why Senate Candidate Dr. Oz is apparently refusing to be interviewed on this network.

BERMAN: And nine years ago today, 20 children never came home from school. What hasn't changed since the Sandy Hook Massacre.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

BERMAN: Fox entertainers frantically texted Mark Meadows as the Capitol riot was happening and urged him to get then-President Trump to stop it. They were clearly alarmed then about the attack on democracy. Well, Brian Kilmeade, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham of January 6th, meet Brian Kilmeade, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham since.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: We also knew that there's always bad actors that will infiltrate large crowds. I don't care if they're radical left, radical right. I don't know who they are.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: I've never seen Trump rally attendees wearing helmets, black helmets, brown helmets, black backpacks.

HANNITY: They knew they could just easily find out and determine hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people are going to show up because they did. They were descending onto the town. There they go. They're going to peacefully protest. And we had reports that groups like Antifa, other radical groups, I don't know the names of all of them, that they were there to cause trouble.

I want to explain in detail, if I can, what today is about and why people are feeling the way they're feeling, to the extent that I think I can. And this is not something that is -- has happened here in a vacuum.

INGRAHAM: They're going to do anything to keep that narrative alive of January 6th because, I don't know, if Liz Cheney runs out of space in the GOP's big tent --

HANNITY: Why isn't Liz Cheney looking into the 500 plus riots that took place in cities all across the country in 2020?

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: The FBI will infiltrate groups, whether it's the mob or Al Qaeda, and they're try to be one of them and unwind a plot before it takes place.

Do you think maybe, perhaps, and maybe you don't want to give away your theories, you find indications the FBI was actually pushing for this invasion? HANNITY: The latest political charade on capitol hill, that is Nancy Pelosi's January 6th commission. And, literally, it has one mission and one mission only, oh, let's see if we can impeach and smear and slander Donald Trump one more time and, of course, the GOP one more time on national television.

KILMEADE: And why is it that every other network, if you took January 6 out of their rundown, they'd have a test pattern. This is all they cover. It is unbelievable.

INGRAHAM: There was certainly a lot of violence that day, but it was not a terrorist attack. It wasn't 9/11. It wasn't the worst thing that ever happened to America. It wasn't an insurrection.

The theatrics were intended to produce an emotional reaction logic and facts be dammed. It is with that knowledge that we will unveil the Angle awards for today's best performances.

God save us from these third rate theatrics, maybe award for best use of an exaggeration in a supporting role, the winners, Aquilino Gonell.

[07:25:08]

For best performance in an action role, the winner is Michael Fanone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: One man perfectly suited to address this situation, CNN Chief Media Correspondent and Anchor of Reliable Sources Brian Stelter. Also the author of --

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hoax, which I think documented a little of the craziness right after January 6, when you had Laura Ingraham saying, this could have been Antifa, when you had Sean Hannity continuing the big lie.

But, folks, I have not seen a montage like that before. That is damning, to see the text messages they were sending to Meadows, and then just hours and days and weeks later, the lies they were spreading. This is embarrassing for Fox or the Murdochs, or rather it should be deeply embarrassing, because, after all, they stoked the big lie. They fueled the fire that led folks to storm the Capitol. And then, of course, as soon as the siege began, they were embarrassed and it was out of control and they were texting Meadows trying to get it to stop.

But, you know, there's a lot of blame to go around here, and it includes Fox as well as Donald Trump Jr. and others.

COLLINS: Well, it is also so pure. You get to see what their real, raw reaction was to what was happening that day, to what we were all watching before they had time to think about what their reaction should be and what would fit the narrative, it seems. And then they adjusted it and decided, okay, this is what we're going to go with. This is what they thought in the moment. STELTER: Like you're saying there is a story, and then comes the spin. What we're seeing is the reaction when the actual story, when the event, when the terror began. Then after a few hours, they had time to spin and they come up with this spin and the narrative. And that has become, ever since, well, the liberals are force and Antifa probably is responsible. And, by the way, what about the riots of the summer of 2020? Those excuses are continuing to this day and to this morning all across, not just Fox News but Newsmax and OAN, and yet these texts don't lie, right? These texts don't lie and we've only read a few of them. This committee has hundreds and hundreds.

BERMAN: Look, and we also don't know what is in the National Archives. All that stuff could be released soon. I just want to note, these texts reveal serious legal questions about what happened that day inside the White House. That's a big deal. They also reveal, and this is the stuff where Fox comes into play, what's happened since, the cover-up, the coordinated, it seems, cover-up of what happened that day by people who know better, we know they knew better because we see these texts.

Brian, about the same outfit here, Dr. Mehmet Oz is running for Senate in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And our Michael Smerconish bumped into him at a Christmas Party.

STELTER: Smerconish goes to the best parties.

BERMAN: What transpired? Explain to us.

STELTER: This is fascinating, because Dr. Oz, of course, in the GOP primary, he is running, trying to prove his Republican credentials, and so he needs Fox News. In fact, he was on Fox and Friends yesterday. But then Smerconish shared a story on the radio saying, I asked him, come on my show. You're going to need to reach out to independents, you're going to need to reach out to moderates. And here's what Oz told him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I said to him, look, I'd really like to get you on my program and I will treat you. What is my line?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll treat you with dignity and respect.

SMERCONISH: I'll treat you with dignity and respect. And he proceeds to say to me, I can't possibly do that because it would upset everybody at Fox. And I'll come on your show after the primary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: This is the best illustration of the fox primary, the power of these right-wing media machines to influence the primaries. And according to Smerconish, Oz was quite honest about this. But let's also honest about the situation, the real reason that Oz doesn't want to appear anywhere but Fox is he doesn't want to answer real questions, tough questions about his record, about his flip-flops on various issues of importance to conservatives. He doesn't want to talk about the fact that he's been living in New Jersey and not of Pennsylvania for decades. There's a lot Oz doesn't want to talk about. And so he's really going to stay in a safe space on Fox, try to win the primary that way.

By the way, what was he railing about yesterday? Cancel culture. He says that because the Philadelphia Inquirer is printing his full name, they're trying to cancel him, because after all he is known as Dr. Oz. Meanwhile, the big news about Dr. Oz, his show is going off the air. So, whether he wins or loses this campaign, he's already lost his television show. That's a dramatic move.

COLLINS: But it shows how seriously he is taking this though. And this is a critical seat in Pennsylvania. This is huge. And so it is not something to just -- I think after Trump, people realized to stop laughing off certain candidates like this and they're taking him more seriously this time.

STELTER: Right. You do have to take it seriously. But I just think to myself, you want to understand how GOP politics is being distorted, how it's being distorted, it is because of the Fox primary power. You know, these candidates know that they basically have to stay in a safe space during the primaries.

BERMAN: Also not just primary power, they have a direct line inside the Oval Office apparently, based on what we're seeing. They did. That's key, based on what we're seeing from the January 6th investigation. Brian, you've got a lot to talk about the way this week is going on Sunday.

STELTER: Great. Can you come on?

BERMAN: Yes, I'll check my calendar.

BERMAN: All right. Eight people confirmed dead in a Kentucky candle factory where more than -- the governor there is calling it a Christmas miracle inside this candle --