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Kinzinger Says Lawmakers Knew Siege Would Happen; Nation Grapples with Child Care Shortage; Walter Shaub is Interviewed about Pelosi's Comments. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired December 16, 2021 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:32:32]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, what did Republican members of Congress know and what did they do before the insurrection? Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, a member of the January 6th committee, says he sees a direct role.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): I certainly believe, and, again, this is not based on anything I know through the committee yet, but I certainly believe members of Congress knew what was going to happen. Some members knew. I certainly believe some members instigated this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Joining us now, CNN senior political analyst Ryan Lizza, chief Washington correspondent for "Politico" and co-author of the "Politico Playbook," and Susan Page, Washington bureau chief at "USA Today" and author of "Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power."
Ryan, there is a caveat there, right? He hedges a little bit, Adam Kinzinger. He says, it's not based on anything he sees in the committee yet. But he does say he certainly believes that Republican members of Congress may have instigated the insurrection?
RYAN LIZZA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, yes.
Look, there's a very important piece in "The New York Times" today that gets into this and talks about a half a dozen House Republicans who were this, you know, band of brothers that helped Mark Meadows, Donald Trump's last chief of staff, incite the insurrection. Some of them -- some of them did help organize the rally, helped feed information to Donald Trump about fraudulent or false charges of election fraud. And so a lot of what Kinzinger alludes to is in the public record.
There were members in the House in November, December, and January of 2020, 2021, who were a part of trying to overturn the presidential election. And I think the committee -- the January 6th committee is going to put together a lot of public information in addition to some of the private information to sort of tell that story a little bit more vividly.
But there's a lot out there already on that, John.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And, look, the question, Susan, may be, did they know or did they plan or did they hope that the insurrection would look as it did, or were they trying to play into this sort of funny business, for lack of a better term, when it came to what Congress might do, what Mike Pence might do when it came to the election results? We don't know if they actually saw and expected the violence that we saw.
[06:35:02]
SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": But let's not get numb to the importance of these disclosures, and things we already know. If members of Congress were willing to countenance efforts to overturn a legitimate election, that seems to me to be pretty close to the definition of treason. And we know that even if there was not a desire or an understanding that it was going to lead to the kind of violence it did, the effort to challenge legitimate election returns without any evidence of election fraud is something we've not seen historically in this country and raises all kinds of concerns.
And Bennie Thompson, the chairman of the January 6th committee, says they are exploring what the role of some members of Congress were on that day and then the efforts leading up to that day.
BERMAN: So, Susan, Eric Trump, the son of the former president, did an interview on the Jay Cutler podcast when he was talking about the idea of Russian collusion. Listen to what he said.
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ERIC TRUMP, SON OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We weren't smart enough to collude with Russia. We didn't know what the hell we were doing. We didn't know what a delegate was. We didn't -- we -- Jay, I remember walking up to a caucus in Iowa saying, you know, I looked at this little young staffer and I go, hey, can you tell me what a caucus is because I have no idea what the hell I'm supposed to be doing here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, I actually remember during the Mueller investigation having people inside Trump world tell me that as a defense. They basically said, it wasn't that we didn't want to. We could never have figured it out if we had tried.
PAGE: You know -- yes, this strikes me as a very odd defense to the allegation of collusion with a foreign power. But it is consistent with what Robert Mueller found in his investigation into the allegations of Russian collusion. He said that there were meetings that involved Trump associates and Russians that the Trump team seemed open to the idea of collusion, whether or not they actually followed through.
KEILAR: Yes, the correct answer, Ryan Lizza, is not, we weren't smart enough to do that, it was, we would never do that, right?
LIZZA: Well, that -- well, that's an excellent point.
And, look, they're -- you know, in some of the recent history with what the media got wrong in the Russian story, a lot has been forgotten about what both the FBI and the media got right, when the big, important thing is that there was a hacking and dumping campaign by the Russians that hacked into Democratic emails, put those into the public domain. And the Trump campaign and then later administration willingly took advantage of that campaign and the additional misinformation campaign that was targeted to Americans.
So, as Susan points out, and, you know, I think Eric Trump is right here, they were not the -- you know, there was a Keystone Cops element to the Trump campaign, especially, you know, to -- the campaign and the administration, but especially in 2016. And they didn't -- they weren't very sophisticated.
But they did take advantage of the help that they got without, you know, without pushing back on it. Or as you point out, Brianna, without saying, no, that's not part of our -- you know, that's not a good thing in a democracy. We don't do that.
BERMAN: There is a new chapter in the back and forth between Senator Elizabeth Warren and Tesla CEO Elon Musk. This is Senator Warren responding to the most recent jab from Musk. What did he call her, Senator -- Senator Karen.
Listen to what Senator Warren says.
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SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): The world's richest freeloader evidently has a very thin skin. But you know the part that really makes me angry about this, it's on behalf of every public school teacher, every waitress, every computer programmer, every street cleaner who actually paid taxes. And that means they paid more than Elon Musk did in federal income taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: I'm not sure, Susan, that either of them particularly minds this battle.
PAGE: Yes, that's right. And Elon Musk loves publicity. We know that. And this is a point that Elizabeth Warren's been making throughout her -- really throughout her public life about her desire to tax rich people more and tax middle income and lower income people -- people less.
So, yes, I think this is maybe a -- maybe a case where both of them are very happy to have the other attacking them.
KEILAR: Yes, indeed.
Susan, thank you so much. Ryan, great to see you this morning as well.
Thanks, guys.
LIZZA: Thanks, guys. Good seeing you all.
KEILAR: So, up next, a shortage of workers adding fuel to the child care crisis in the U.S.
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GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why can't you find employees?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they can earn a lot more money working anywhere other than in child care.
COHEN: That's got to be giving you --
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KEILAR: Gabe Cohen going behind the shortage and how parents are coping with this.
Plus, it was a simple question about abortion that a medical doctor couldn't answer.
[06:40:02]
Ahead, Dr. Oz on his awkward response to when life truly begins.
BERMAN: And, you might think the music is overrated, but the deal is certainly not. Bruce Springsteen sells his songs for $500 million.
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[06:45:01]
BERMAN: Record December heat sparking extreme weather events across the United States and fueling dangerous threats from tornados to hurricane-force winds to fires. The National Weather Service is calling out historical and never-before-seen forecasts with severe storm and fires risks across the central United States. We're going to talk more on the significance of this ahead.
KEILAR: It is a troubling time for the health care -- or, pardon me, the child care industry. Since the pandemic, there are fewer workers, while child care costs have soared and wait lists have gotten even longer.
CNN's Gabe Cohen is joining us live with more on this story.
Gabe, what did you find as you were reporting this out?
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, Brianna, this is becoming a pretty dire situation for the child care industry. You know, we're seeing this competitive hiring market right now. And, simply put, they just can't find people. They can't find candidates.
And now we're seeing a ripple effect through the economy because parents who rely on those child care programs, well, many of them are struggling to get back to work.
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COHEN (voice over): There's a crisis closing classrooms at Nurtury Education in Boston.
MARTIN RAMOS, TEACHER, NURTURY EARLY EDUCATION: Oh, we need to get ready for the tea party.
COHEN: The non-profit staff has shrunk 30 percent.
COHEN (on camera): Why can't you find employees?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they can earn a lot more money working anywhere other than in child care.
COHEN (voice over): Across the country, more than 10 percent of child care workers have left the industry during the pandemic, driven out by closures and furloughs early on, and now wage competition.
Nationwide, the average child care worker makes just over $12 an hour, far less than K-12 teachers. And in this competitive hiring market, other industries are raising wages to attract workers.
RHIAN ALLVIN, CEO, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR EDUCATION OF YOUNG CHILDREN: This developmental time for the children is the most critical developmental time in the human lifecycle. And yet we're competing against other minimum wage jobs.
COHEN: The American Rescue Plan, passed by Congress in March, spent billions to keep the child care industry afloat. It helped Nurtury raise wages a dollar an hour. But Martin Ramos, a teacher here, still works a second job at Home Depot.
RAMOS: I've been living like pay check by check and I was getting behind on my bills.
COHEN: With the staff shortage worsening, Nurtury is now taking 15 percent fewer students.
COHEN (on camera): How long could families sit on a wait list?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They may sit on a wait list for the better part of 2022.
COHEN (voice over): Across the U.S., roughly 10 percent of child care programs have closed. Others are downsizing. And many parents are seeing prices rise and wait lists grow.
ALLVIN: And parents, predominantly women, can't go back to work.
COHEN: A recent survey found 84 percent of parents feel overwhelmed by the cost of child care and nearly 20 percent have quit a job because of it. The average annual cost nationwide is more than $10,000 per child. For the average couple, that's 10 percent of their income. For single parents, it's 35 percent.
RESHONNA REYNOLDS, QUIT JOB TO CARE FOR HER SON: Here's my Booboo.
COHEN: Reshonna Reynolds became a stay-at-home mom when her son was born last year. She was making less than $40,000 in Seattle.
REYNOLDS: The child care costs was more than we were paying for rent. That's how much the child care costs were. I decided, hey, I have to quit my job.
COHEN: She and her husband are now trying to find day care so she can get back to work, but the wait lists are up to two years long.
REYNOLDS: We can't find any child care.
COHEN: Nearly 3 million women, including hundreds of thousands of mothers, are still out of work from the pandemic.
NELA RICHARDSON, CHIEF ECONOMIST, ADP: And it's really important in terms of the jobs recovery going forward.
COHEN: Nela Richardson is ADP's chief economist.
RICHARDSON: The U.S. is losing trillions of dollars when women are not fully participant in the labor market.
COHEN: President Biden's Build Back Better plan would invest close to $400 billion in child care, boosting wages, offering universal free preschool for three and four-year-olds and guaranteeing middle class families pay no more than 7 percent of their income on child care.
ALLVIN: Parents can't pay more. Early childhood educators can't earn any less. And so it's going to continue to take significant public funding in order to fix this program.
COHEN: Just look at Reshonna Reynolds and the career she left.
COHEN (on camera): What was the job you quit when your son was born?
REYNOLDS: I was a preschool teacher, and I had that job for 15 years. I loved it. It was great. But I could not afford the cost of child care.
COHEN (voice over): A teacher, stuck at home, needed now more than ever.
REYNOLDS: If you want us to pour (ph) into your children, you've got to give us what we need.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: And now these leaders in the child care industry think that Build Back Better, it may be the last good chance to really fix the child care industry for a long time. And if that funding doesn't come through, a very serious concern that the industry may just keep imploding, Brianna, and many of these problems are just only going to get worse.
KEILAR: I'm so glad you did this story. I think so many people are feeling this in their lives and now they're seeing -- you know, they're just part of this terrible, big trend and it's really coming down on women as well, as you point out.
Gabe, thank you so much for that.
COHEN: Thank you.
[06:50:00]
KEILAR: Up next, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi defending lawmakers and their spouses who trade stocks.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We are a free market economy. They should be able to participate in that.
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KEILAR: My next guest says Pelosi might as well have said, let them eat cake.
BERMAN: And Martin Luther King Jr.'s family urging the public not to celebrate his legacy next month. What they're pressing Congress to do instead.
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KEILAR: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says no to banning Congressional lawmakers from trading stock. It was in response to a question about a report that found dozens of members of Congress violated a law meant to stop insider trading and prevent conflicts of interest.
Here's what Pelosi said.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): This is a free market and people -- we are a free market economy. They should be able to participate in that.
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KEILAR: Joining us now to discuss is Walter Shaub.
[06:55:01]
He is a senior ethics fellow at the Project on Government Oversight. He's the former director of the Office of Government Ethics.
You have a very strong reaction to what she said. Tell us, Walter. WALTER SHAUB, SENIOR ETHICS FELLOW, PROJECT ON GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT:
Yes, well, absolutely. I mean she calls it a free market, but your average citizen participating in that free market doesn't have government experts providing them with routine briefings on non-public information that can affect the price of stocks. So I think it's an absolutely absurd comment on her part. She might as well have said, let them eat cake, because the public doesn't have access to the same cake she does.
KEILAR: Is there any way, do you think, to separate that insider knowledge from the ability to invest?
SHAUB: Well, look, often these members of Congress will say, I didn't tell my spouse or I didn't tell my broker to buy those stocks. The problem is that the public has no way to verify that. And the appearance that they're engaging in insider trading does just as much credibility to Congress as actual inside trading. The public has no way to distinguish when that's happening.
KEILAR: So, let's talk about what prompted all of this, because it's pretty staggering. This was a business insider report that found that 49 members of Congress and 182 senior-level Congressional staffers were violating what's called The Stock Act, which Congress itself put in place about a decade ago to try to stop this kind of thing. It seems like they aren't following this at all.
SHAUB: Yes, they created this rule. They passed it in 2012, and it went into effect in 2013, that required prompt disclosure of stock trades so that the public could evaluate whether or not they're engaging in insider trading, instead of waiting a year or more to get to see the disclosures.
But the problem is, they're not complying with it and they're not imposing penalties when they do it and they're not public about when they do impose penalties or waive them. There's a $200 fine for each failure to disclose, which is pretty minor for folks at this income level anyways, but they can't even bring themselves to impose the fine.
KEILAR: You said they're waiving the fine in some cases, even though there are people who are, you know, going against this law?
SHAUB: Yes, you know, there's supposed to be an exception for undue hardship or unusual circumstances. So, if, for instance, you're in a coma, obviously you can't file your form. But they're accepting excuses like, I forgot, or I didn't know it was required, or, oh, I thought I filed that already. And they're like, oh, well, if you thought you filed it already, he's your waiver.
So the problem is that they're not strictly enforcing it. You know, the disclosure law only solves one problem anyways, which is the potential for insider trading. But the public doesn't have equal access to what Congress knows, so they have no way to evaluate insider trading. On top of that, disclosure doesn't solve conflicts of interest problems. You've got Joe Manchin with significant interest in coal energy, and yet he's the primary holdout on some of the provisions of the laws that are -- the bills that are pending before him that would clean up the environment. Maybe he believes in the things that he's saying, or maybe it's profitable to believe those things. And the public has no way to gauge.
We shouldn't have to ask these questions. Nobody put a gun to their head and said, you have to go be in Congress. They made a choice. They asked us for great power over our lives, and now they're not even complying with the disclosures they -- disclosure requirements they promised us they would comply with.
KEILAR: They put in place themselves.
Walter, thank you so much.
SHAUB: Thanks.
KEILAR: A Louisiana judge under fire after a home video with racist language surfaces. She's blaming a drug for using the "n" word.
BERMAN: And then the scandal-plagued football coach, scandal after scandal this season, finally Urban Meyer crosses the line. The final straw.
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