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New CNN Polls on Mood on COVID Amid Omicron Spread; Confusion, Anxiety Swirls as COVID Rages Across America; Dems Furious Over Shelving of Spending Plan; VP Harris on Biden 2024 Run: We Haven't Spoken About It. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 17, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Friday, December 17. I'm John Berman with chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins this morning. Nice to see you.

[06:00:12]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: I couldn't stay away. I had to come back.

BERMAN: Back for more punishment. This morning, what might be the most complicated moment in the entire pandemic. Not the deadliest, not the worst, but the most nuanced, most confusing and possibly the most challenging.

We are seeing huge increases in coronavirus cases. And that, in itself, is causing major reactions.

A new group of colleges and universities shifting their classes online. Broadway has canceled performances. One just minutes before the opening curtain.

New outbreaks in pro sports. The leagues have postponed multiple games now. The NBA and NFL have updated their COVID protocols for the holiday season, on the one hand, issuing new restrictions and requirements, on the other hand, though, speeding up the time that asymptomatic players can get back on the field or court.

Companies now cracking down on the unvaccinated. And new this morning, the New Orleans public school system just became the first in the nation to mandate vaccines for children ages 5 and up.

COLLINS: So here's where things stand, because look at the numbers. The U.S. is averaging 119,000 new cases each day. Forty percent higher than a month ago.

Coronavirus hospitalizations are also up 40 percent, at more than 67,000 people.

ICU beds are 78 percent full. And one in five of those patients has COVID. Nationwide, 1,326 coronavirus deaths are being reported on average

each day. The CDC predicts that hospital admissions could reach record levels in the coming weeks. And with cases and deaths looking a lot like what we saw last winter, this time with holiday travel approaching pre-pandemic levels.

President Biden is pleading to those who have not yet gotten vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death for unvaccinated. For themselves, their families and the hospitals they'll soon overwhelm.

But there's good news. If you're vaccinated and you have your booster shot, you're protected from severe illness and death. Period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The CDC is now out with a new recommendation that people should not receive the Johnson & Johnson vaccine if Pfizer and Moderna shots are available. That guidance is coming as the agency's advisers cited data on the effectiveness and safety of the Johnson and Johnson shots. And so far, 54 people have developed rare blood clots after receiving the shots, nine of whom have died.

Here to tell us more about how Americans are feeling about all of this this morning is CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten, who has the numbers for us.

Harry, I'm imagining a lot of whiplash for people right now.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA CORRESPONDENT: I think there is a lot of whiplash. You know, if we look at right now our data and compare where we are right now to where we were three months ago in our polling, and what do you see?

You see that the percentage of people who say it's still necessary to take precautions. It's still a majority at 55 percent. But look at that compared to August and September last poll. Look at that. It was 64 percent back then on the view on returning to pre-pandemic life.

So this just basically tells you that people are really worn out by this, even as Omicron is on the move at this point.

COLLINS: Right. And so the other numbers that you're seeing, of course, the big question is what do people feel about this? Because you know, what we've had with previous strains of this is that people feel, well, unvaccinated Americans are continuing to go about their business, their everyday life. It's the vaccinated Americans who are the one who are more cautious here and are questioning whether or not more precautions should be taken right now.

ENTEN: Yes. We see the same thing, right? You would think that the unvaccinated folks would be the ones taking the most precautions, because they're the ones who are most at risk.

But what we see our poll, once again, is it's, in fact, the vaccinated, 61 percent still feel it's necessary to take precautions in everyday activities.

The unvaccinated, it's just 33 percent. So the vaccinated, more -- nearly double who feel that they need to take precautions. And the unvaccinated are going out there and, unfortunately, they're the ones who are most likely to spread the illness, and they're the ones who are most likely to go outside and exactly do that.

COLLINS: Harry, based on what you've been seeing, has anything changed when it comes to vaccine mandates and whether or not more people are supportive of instituting those on a bigger scale across the United States?

ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, if you look at our polling, you see perhaps a slight tick up in requiring COVID-19 for everyday activities. It's now 54 percent. It was 51 percent back in August and September.

But that is within the margin of error. And more than that, the way I would really just look at this, is that it's -- the country is pretty split: 50/50 down the middle.

If you look at some other polling, you see decline of the percentage of folks who are in favor of vaccine mandates. So right now in our polling, slightly more say yes than no. But it's very, very close. It's very divisive.

COLLINS: Well, I think one question that that raises is what we're doing to take when it comes to Omicron. Of course, the variant that everyone is asking about right now, if they need to change activities in their everyday life.

[06:05:07]

So when it comes to two of those things that we've heard pushed, booster shots and masks, what does it look like for those numbers?

ENTEN: Yes. If you look at masks at this particular point and you look at booster shots. Here, take a look at masks. Masks should be required for everybody. Look at this. Overall, it's just 49 percent. This is well within the margin of error. People should be able to choose, actually, slightly higher, but again within the margin of error, 51 percent here.

But look at this. The vaccinated, in fact the majority say masks should be required for all, at 56 percent. The unvaccinated, the people who should, in fact, be wearing those masks with no doubt in indoor spaces, just 23 percent say masks should be required for all.

So once again, we're seeing this split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated, where the vaccinated want to be more cautious. And the unvaccinated, the ones who really should be the most cautious out of any -- out of everybody, are the ones who say, No, we just want to go about our lives. We don't, in fact, want to wear the masks at this particular point.

COLLINS: So if they don't want to wear a mask, what does that mean for the level of vaccinations? Because of course, we had that divide originally, whereas people who were fine with wearing a mask, didn't really have any issues with it and people who were very anti-mask.

Of course, that divide then transferred over sometimes to vaccines. And so what is the status when you look at the national landscape as people are questioning how many people have gotten a booster shot, of how many people are vaccinated?

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, the percentage who say they're unvaccinated has, in fact, pretty much stayed the same, at 22 percent in our polling. If you look at other polls, if you look at the CDC numbers, it's roughly about one in five.

But to me, the interesting thing here is the boosters, right? In our poll, we got 36 percent who would say they're fully vaccinated and boosted. That's a little bit higher than what the CDC has.

But what's really fascinating to me is if you add that with the fully vaccinated and have tried to schedule the booster, it's just 46 percent who say they're fully vaccinated and boosted or they've tried to schedule a booster.

That is a little less than half of all Americans who say, in fact, they really want that booster at this particular point. So t hat's a message that I think the government and everybody else is going to try and sort of has to push more at this point, and they're not exactly breaking through.

COLLINS: Yes. And the White House has been pushing this. They've been talking about this. Clearly, though, if it's not encouraging people to get boosted, that's going to be a big issue with Omicron. Because that is what Dr. Fauci and so many have cited, saying if you do get the booster shot, you're going to be better off for this new wave of infections that they're expecting.

And so I guess a lot of this does come down to where you stand on masks, where you stand on vaccines, is where you get your information from and who you trust. And so when you look at these numbers, Harry, what are you seeing with where people are getting this information from?

ENTEN: Yes, do -- they do not -- these folks really do not trust the government at this particular point. At least elected officials.

The CDC is the most trusted at 68 percent. People in their own community, 58 percent are confident will make the right decisions on the new coronavirus variant.

Look at that: Joe Biden, the president of the United States, the leader, just 49 percent believe he's -- they're confident that he will make the right decisions. And Congress at just 35 percent.

The fact is we need our public health officials out there, delivering this message. That's the people that -- those are the folks that the people trust the most. The people in their community, the CDC, the folks you know every day and the medical professionals. They're the best ones to deliver the messages.

COLLINS: That number for President Biden, 49 percent. Given of course, he has tied so much of the success of his presidency, when we talk about his legislative agenda, we're going to do that coming up. He has said the cornerstone of success for him will be how they handle the pandemic. And of course, he's the one appealing to people to get their booster shots.

So Harry Enten, thank you so much for bringing us all those numbers this morning.

ENTEN: My pleasure.

BERMAN: So America is not ready for Omicron. That's the warning in a new piece in "The Atlantic." It's by Ed Yong, who won a Pulitzer this year for his coronavirus coverage.

He writes, quote, "The new variant poses a far graver threat at the collective level than the individual one, the kind of test that the U.S. has repeatedly failed."

Ed Yong joins us now. Ed, I have to tell you, your piece really depressed me, right? It's not an uplifting piece of journalism there at all. Why do you think the United States isn't ready?

ED YONG, "THE ATLANTIC": All right. So on an individual level, things are not great but not catastrophic either. We know that Omicron has made everyone, all of us, even vaccinated people, a little less protected against infection than we were two months ago.

But certainly, if you had a booster, your ability to ward off the catching the virus is OK, about the same as fully vaccinated people were against Delta. And your protection against severe disease and death is going to still be quite high. So that's OK.

But at a societal level, things look much bleaker, and that's mainly because of just how fast Omicron is spreading. This thing can -- this thing can really move, and it is doing so.

And that huge wave of infections is going to come crashing down upon our society and our healthcare system, regardless of the fact that some people have been boosted and will be protected against hospitalizations.

[0610:12]

I cannot stress this enough. That healthcare system cannot take any more. It is already overwhelmed. Don't ask if Omicron will overwhelm it. It is overwhelmed right now. There's not enough healthcare workers. They have too much work.

COLLINS: Well, and I know you spoke to several doctors as you were reporting out this piece. So given the fact that it's already overwhelmed by the Delta variant, now they've got this new variant as people are still figuring out, you know, does it cause more severe disease? What does that look like?

Of course, still a big concern for unvaccinated Americans. But what did you hear from doctors about how they're viewing this? Because I imagine the doctor's fatigue that we've already seen among healthcare workers is just going to be amplified even further.

YONG: Yes. And it's really hard to do justice. The -- the scale of the burnout and the exhaustion that America's healthcare workers are facing right now.

Like, even -- even if the Delta wave and the Omicron wave had never happened, they would be in a bad place. Huge numbers of them have quit their jobs, quit medicine entirely because of all the traumas of the last two years.

And now you add a Delta wave on top of that and Omicron on the horizon, as one person said to me, they're just grasping for resolve.

And this is going to affect all of us, right? It's not just to do with COVID anymore. As one person said, the level of care we have come to expect from the American healthcare system no longer exists, right? And that's for everything.

If you get into a car accident this Christmas, that's a bad shot because of just how frayed everything is right now. And I think we absolutely need to have that in the back of our minds when making every decision about Omicron, about gatherings, about boosters, about anything. Right?

If we continue to do this to our healthcare workers, we are all going to suffer COVID or otherwise.

BERMAN: And I get that. The healthcare system is overwhelmed. And you can go to certain states. And you can see that's even before Omicron. You look at Michigan. They have an outbreak there. They're being pushed beyond the limit already.

But I do think there are questions about what vaccinated and boosted people should do. Is society still reacting to a previous situation in this pandemic?

You know, do vaccinated, boosted people now need to just stay home and not go visit their grandparents during the holidays? Do vaccinated, boosted people, you know, in the NFL, if they test positive or completely asymptomatic, how long before they get back on the field? Have we adjusted to the new world?

YONG: Well, this -- this is the crux of the piece that I wrote. Vaccinated and boosted people might feel a bit more secure. They might feel I'm not going to go to hospital, why am I going to change my behavior?

And the answer is that we should still take this seriously, because we can still -- and I'm one of them -- ping the virus across to more vulnerable populations quickly enough, because Omicron spreads so quickly, to land enough people in the hospital to break our already broken healthcare system.

This is not anything any of us wants to deal with anymore. We're tired. But hard decisions still need to be made. I mean, look, this is small stakes, but I am 40 today. And I canceled the birthday party we had planned because of Omicron.

Small decisions can still make a big difference. And I think that everyone needs to take this seriously.

You asked if we are still reacting to a previous iteration of this threat. I think we are. We are reacting -- we are treating this as if we are living in a world in which there is a functional healthcare system to protect us if we get sick. I don't think we're living in that world anymore, and I think we need to make our calculus differently because of it.

BERMAN: Happy birthday?

COLLINS: Happy birthday.

YONG: Thank you.

COLLINS: And so sorry that you're spending like this. I know you also wrote -- I want to point this out. You tweeted, "If people are tired of reading these pieces, I guarantee I'm more tired of writing them."

BERMAN: Ed, thank you.

YONG: I sympathize with people. Thank you.

BERMAN: You've done terrific work on this, and you raise really important questions. Thank you.

So President Biden hitting the pause button on his Build Back Better plan for now. Why the move is leaving many Democrats furious.

Plus, while Democrats are fighting for Joe Manchin's support on just about everything, Republican leader Mitch McConnell has a proposition for him. We'll tell you what that is.

COLLINS: And there's been a warrant issued for Alec Baldwin's cell phone after that deadly shooting on the "Rust" set. What authorities are now searching for.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:19:18]

BERMAN: New this morning, it looks like the $1.75 trillion package will not be delivered by Christmas.

President Biden says the Build Back Better plan will have to wait until 2022 after it hit a roadblock, that roadblock named Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. We're also learning this morning that some Senate Democrats, they're

really mad.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty joins us this morning from Capitol Hill. Sunlen, what are you hearing?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Democrats up here on Capitol Hill are angry. They are frustrated. There was a closed-door meeting here on Thursday where Democrats gathered and vented openly to each other, lamenting their inability to get many key things done, promises that they've made to the American people. And the fact that they are unable to get things done when they have control of the House and Senate right now.

And certainly, central to those broken promises is a failure for them to get the Build Back Better plan through this year. That was something that President Biden acknowledged in a statement yesterday, noting the disagreements that still remain with Democratic holdout, Senator Joe Manchin.

President Joe Biden saying in a statement, in part, quote, "My team and I are having ongoing discussions with Senator Manchin that will work through next week. It takes time to finalize these agreements, prepare the legislative changes, and finish all the parliamentary and procedural steps needed to enable a Senate vote. We will advance this week together and over the days and weeks ahead."

And so much of that frustration that Democrats are feeling is this 50/50 Senate split. Senator Hirono yesterday saying a 50/50 Senate sucks. We can't get things done where one or two people can stand in the way of things moving forward.

Senator Manchin making clear that he is not relenting to this pressure. He says, quote, "No one pressures me. I am from West Virginia."

Now, all this comes as the Senate parliamentarian last night rejected some immigration provisions from being included in the Build Back Better plan. That certainly is another blow for this bill, John, and certainly for Democrats, as well.

BERMAN: Sunlen, Mazie Hirono does not mince words. Thank you so much for that.

COLLINS: While Manchin left many in his own party frustrated, Republican leader Mitch McConnell says the door is always open for Manchin to switch sides and join the GOP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Well, Senator Manchin comes in frequently. As you know, he likes to talk to you guys. He likes to talk to everybody. And I enjoy our conversations.

It would not surprise you to know that I have suggested for years that it would be a great idea representing a deep red state like West Virginia for him to come over to our side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, he made those comments as Manchin met with McConnell in his office for about 30 minutes yesterday. Both declined to go into detail very much about what it was exactly that they discussed, John. But the idea that this is going to happen is almost close to zero, it seems.

BERMAN: Well, we cut off the most important part of that sound bite, which is that Mitch McConnell, while he said he's been asking for a long time, said out loud, I don't think it's going to happen.

COLLINS: It's not going to happen. Right.

BERMAN: And if Mitch McConnell says it's not going to happen, that was music to Democrats' ears. I'm sure Mitch McConnell made Democrats happier yesterday with that statement than he has made them in months on anything. He basically told them, I'm not going to get Manchin. I'm not going to get him. So, you know, Democrats should feel good about that.

COLLINS: And it does -- it's interesting, though, to see how the president himself has talked about Manchin. Because just a few months ago, he told Jeff Zeleny, when he was leaving the White House, Joe has always been with me at the end. At the end of the day, he always comes through.

And of course, that's a big question now, given this bill is not happening before Christmas like President Biden wanted it to.

And whenever I talked to President Biden last week, he said -- you know, he sounded very uncertain about whether he could get him on board. It went from this level of, you know, high confidence that, at the end of the day he'll have him to, you know, clearly what's happened now with this bill stalled.

BERMAN: The one thing I do wonder, though, is that the White House continues to say, and Manchin continues to say they agree on $1.75 trillion. So they agree on the amount, which is not nothing. I understand it's hard to fit it all in. But it's not nothing.

COLLINS: It's almost impossible to fit everything in. Because if what Manchin wants to do is what ultimately happens and they stick with that price tag, it means that those other priorities they have, which isn't a really big bill, they're going to fall by the wayside. I think that's why you're seeing that level of frustration.

But we should note this is something that Senator Manchin has been saying for some time now.

BERMAN: At some point the White House has to take him at his word for what he'll put up with.

So Vice President Kamala Harris gave a wide-ranging interview to "The Wall Street Journal." Among the topics discussed, the 2024 election. When asked if she thought that Biden will run again, Harris responded,

"I'll be very honest, I don't think about it, nor have we talked about it."

Joining us now, the reporter who did that interview, "Wall Street Journal" White House reporter, Tarini Parti. That was interesting. There was, you know -- there was so much about that exchange that's interesting, right.

It's the non-answer but the answer. I'm not going to directly say I think he's running. But then I'm also going to say we haven't talked about it. A lot to digest there.

TARINI PARTI, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": A lot to digest. And what's -- what's really interesting here is that I actually asked her twice. You know, I asked her first if she had talked to the president, if the president had told her that he intends to run.

And she said, you know, I want to be very clear about this. We've never talked about it. I haven't thought about it. We're focused on really important issues like the pandemic, the economy.

And then I asked her again, but you're assuming the president is running. And she again repeated that answer.

So it definitely will be very interesting here. You know, we've heard from her supporters over this past year that she's sort of walking this fine line where she doesn't want to seem too, you know, politically ambitious. Because obviously, she's run for president in the past against the current president, and she doesn't want to overshadow him.

[06:25:03]

So she's trying to talk about this in a careful way. But, you know, it ended up actually just opening up more questions with that response that she gave.

COLLINS: Well, and Tarini, it's so interesting. Because of course, this came up at the White House briefing yesterday. And the deputy press secretary seemed to have a very different answer than what the vice president did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can't speak to a conversation that the vice president and the president has. I can only say what -- and reiterate what Jen has said and what the president has said himself, that he is planning to run for reelection in 2024. I don't have any more to add to that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But just to be clear, the president says he plans to run again, he means with Harris on the ticket?

JEAN-PIERRE: Yes, he does. There's no change. Yes. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So the White House seems to be framing this as a pretty simple yes or no answer.

PARTI: And it should be a yes or no answer. I mean, you know, I did this interview on Wednesday. Jen Psaki, as early as Monday, when there were some reports and some speculation about other Democrats potentially considering running, in case Biden decides not to run, she again had shut that down and said, you know, he intends to run. And that's my message to those Democrats potentially considering running for president.

So they've had to do this repeatedly now.

And I think what the vice president was perhaps trying to do was to just, again, you know, try to keep the focus on the issues and say that's what they talk about. And they don't really talk about politics.

But of course, it is very notable if they have, in fact, have not ever talked about 2024.

BERMAN: I'm sure you asked that question and were expecting the easiest answer, which is yes. Yes. But then she says what she says and you're like, oh, really?

PARTI: That's exactly right. That's why I followed up and asked her again, just to be sure. And I was surprised she gave that same expense.

BERMAN: Tarini Parti, terrific interview. Thank you so much for your reporting. A lot more in there, as well. People should go check it out.

PARTI: Thanks for having me.

BERMAN: The police issuing a warrant for Alec Baldwin's cell phone. This is pertaining to the "Rust" movie shooting. Hear what they are looking for.

PARTI: And Kim Potter, the former officer who says she pulled a gun instead of her taser, says she will take the stand in her own defense, which could come as early as today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)