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New Day

Manuel Oliver is Interviewed about his White House Meeting; Josh Nass is Interviewed about January 6th; Reality Check on Christmas Politics; Donating to CNN Heroes. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 17, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:18]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: There's an update to a story that we have been following here. The father of a Parkland shooting victim has been standing outside the White House demanding a meeting with President Biden in an effort to urge action on gun violence.

Joining us now is the father of the Parkland shooting victim, Joaquin "Guac" Oliver, and the founder of changetheref.org, Manuel Oliver.

Manuel, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

And so tell us that, you know, you're finally going to get into the White House but there's no meeting with President Biden yet, right?

MANUEL OLIVER, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM JOAQUIN "GUAC" OLIVER: No, not yet. I was actually advised by some friends and members of Senate and Congress to go ahead and have these meetings with what we believe is the highest authority behind the fight against gun violence that is coming from the administration. So, we went there and I -- thanks to Chris Murphy, Ted Deutch and Mike Thompson. These are politicians that came to talk to me about what are the options, what are the -- they became facilitator to make this happen.

So, I did have the meeting. I was expecting to meet with Joe Biden. I still want to meet him. But then we went back and forth with different points that I would love to share with you guys.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Ted Deutch, obviously the congressman of Parkland, where Parkland is. Chris Murphy, who is now a senator, but was the congressman where the Sandy Hook shooting took place. So these are political leaders who have a very intimate knowledge and experience with school shootings.

What did you hear from these White House officials, Susan Rice, (INAUDIBLE)?

OLIVER: So there was a lot of information about things that the administration has accomplished and we already celebrated all of those. But I wanted to get to the point where we could bring other options, you know? It's true that President Biden has done more than probably any other president when it comes to defeat -- try to defeat gun violence. However, people still die. And that was my point yesterday inside that office.

I understand your intentions. This is sick. That's the group that is representing the fight against gun violence. That's, like, the opposition of the NRA and the gun industry and the gun lobby. So, I think that we should have more people involved. That's what we thought and exchanged with them. When I say we, I'm talking about Fred Guttenberg and myself. And also the call for urgency, right? Like, we really need these to happen.

We were there for more than an hour, which I appreciate. But, you know what, during that hour, at least four people were shot and died because of gun violence.

[08:35:05]

So this is not about things that we have been able to do. It's about the things that we haven't been able to do. The things that we need to do right now.

COLLINS: And one of those things is signing legislation. And President Biden has said, you know, he'll sign it if it comes to his desk, but there has been none passed by Congress. There's no real momentum behind any of it.

So what did White House officials say to you about a push that they're going to make if they're going to make one when it comes to this?

OLIVER: Well, that's -- that's what I see as an absence of a plan against gun violence. I cannot -- this is my personal thought. So, my only option here, if I go on the political game, is to wait for November, next year, so we have more senators on our side and they can approve the bills and they can pass the bills.

A bill won't save a life. And we can celebrate it and we can go crazy, yes, we're getting somewhere, but we're not. We are not.

So, a year, it's 40,000 people losing their lives. And every number, when it comes to gun violence, is just rising. It's not -- nothing is better than before.

So, I need to -- and I started the meeting yesterday blaming myself because I wanted everybody to understand that this is our fault. And I didn't see that reaction of this is our fault from many of the persons that were in that meeting. I think that we need to start blaming ourselves because of what's happening.

COLLINS: Manuel, I know that this is obviously been very close to your heart. You stood outside the White House for several days saying that you would stay there throughout Christmas if you needed to. I know you said that Christmas has not been the same, of course, since you lost your son. And we're very sorry for that and we'll be thinking of you over the holidays.

OLIVER: Yes, you know what, that's not a sacrifice if you consider that my son was shot four times. He was still alive when he was shot again twice. That's a sacrifice. That's pain.

And I want to make this very clear, we have been discussing -- debating this, which is not undebatable. We -- this shouldn't be a debate behind -- if we agree or not that innocent people should die just because of no reason at all and we can lead a normal life with that.

From now on, Manuel Oliver, the followers of Manuel, the followers of Joaquin, the people that -- the universe that is fighting against gun violence will show zero tolerance. And if the administration is not making that call, which we asked yesterday, we asked yesterday that we needed President Biden to create, to declare war to gun violence during this speech at the State of the Union. However, if he doesn't, we will. Not me by myself. Everyone that is listening to me right now, they know that we had enough and we're going to make this happen.

And the kids are with us. Zero tolerance to gun violence starts now. And we will go from every single angle. This is not about owning a gun or not. You are not the center of the universe, Mr. Gun Owner. This is about people dying.

BERMAN: Manuel Oliver, we appreciate everything you've done. It breaks my heart a little bit to hear you blame yourself for action not happening, but I understand what you're saying. Everyone should be blaming themselves right now. Thank you so much for being with you.

OLIVER: Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a great day.

COLLINS: Thank you.

Up next, a lawyer for the January 6th rally organizer says that members of the former president's orbit have, quote, good reason to be quivering in their boots. What his client just turned over to the house committee that's investigating the insurrection.

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[08:42:50]

BERMAN: A key organizer of the January 6th rally that preceded the attack on the U.S. Capitol says former President Trump is ultimately to blame for the riot. Dustin Stockton testified this week before the House committee investigating the attack, and CNN reports that before meeting with the committee, Stockton's lawyer, Josh Nass, told reporters that his client has text messages and emails with people very senior in the former president's orbit, as well as with members of Congress that he would turn over to the committee Tuesday. Those lawmakers and people close to Trump, quote, have good reason to be quivering in their boots today, Nass says.

Joining me now is Dustin Stockton's attorney, Josh Nass.

Councilor, thanks so much for being with us.

What did your client turn over on Tuesday?

JOSH NASS, ATTORNEY FOR CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST DUSTIN STOCKTON: Good morning, John.

My client turned over a wealth of documents, communications in the form of email correspondences, text messages and other modes of communication. And this is a wealth of evidence that I think the committee found illuminating. I think it's going to assist them greatly in their ultimate quest to get to the bottom of who the true culprits were behind the awful, awful tragic events of January 6th.

BERMAN: Email and text messages with senior members of former President Trump's orbit. Who? From whom, exactly?

NASS: Well, I would tell you, you know, without sort of divulging too much because the committee does have a job to do and I respect their role. And I should mention, by the way, that they were incredibly professional, they were incredibly gracious with my client and I, and we commend them and respect the role they have to play here, which is such an important one.

But I will tell you that Mark Meadows, for one, I believe, has reason to be concerned, not only for having been found in contempt and justifiably so for defying the subpoena, but also because my client was incredibly concerned, OK, in the days and even weeks leading up to the 6th about the lack of organization, about the fact that there were certain rogue actors involved.

BERMAN: Counselor, did your client have direct contact -- did -- did your counselor have direct contact -- did your client have --

NASS: Yes, go ahead, John.

[08:45:05]

BERMAN: Did you client have direct contact with Mark Meadows?

NASS: For organizational purposes, I can tell you that all communications were going through Amy Cramer (ph) as the conduit. My client was getting assurances from Miss Cramer about her communications with Meadows and others in the White House.

BERMAN: Your client communicated directly with members of Congress?

NASS: There are some communications with lawmakers. I'm not going to go beyond that, John. Again, I respect the committee and the process. And, by the way, I think it's a mistake to view this through a partisan prism. I think it's one of the most heinous things, frankly, that the former president and certain conservative media personalities are doing by trying to malign the committee and the good work they're trying to do here. This is a matter of right or wrong in terms of complying with the subpoena and cooperating with the committee.

BERMAN: Did members -- did members of Congress --

NASS: We all, as Americans, ought to want to get to the bottom of this.

Yes, go ahead. BERMAN: Based on the communications -- based on the communications your client had, did members of Congress have fore knowledge or participate in what ultimately became the breaching of the Capitol?

NASS: So, what I will say to that, John, is that my client had incredibly grave concerns about certain rogue actors like a Mr. Ali Alexander (ph), for one, being given a platform on the 6th. And he voiced those concerns. By the way, that's substantiated by many of the communications and evidence that we have provided to the committee. And I should mention, by the way, I was pleasantly surprised, based on the committee's questions, by the depth and knowledge that they already had before we even came in about who the real bad actors involved in this case are.

So, I will tell you that had they listened to my client, had my client gone on his way, in the days and weeks leading up to the 6th, it pains me to say this, but this tragedy of the 6th would never have happened. They were competing factions within these two different groups that were vying for sort of control, if you will. One wanted to afford a platform to the Mr. Alexanders and those rogue actors who had absolutely irresponsible and reckless rhetoric that they were perpetuating, and the others, like my client, did not. And they voiced those concerns. They were told that those concerns had gone into the president and his chief of staff, Mr. Meadows. And, sadly, it doesn't seem that those concerns were actually dealt with.

BERMAN: Josh Nass, I appreciate you joining us this morning. I look forward to continuing this conversation as we go forward and try to learn more about what's going on here.

NASS: Likewise, John. Thanks for your time.

BERMAN: A warrant issued for Alec Baldwin's cell phone after the deadly shooting on the "Rust" set. What authorities are now searching for.

COLLINS: And why the so-called war on Christmas may actually just be a war on reality. Your "Reality Check" is next.

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[08:51:15]

COLLINS: Some conservative figures have capitalized on the so-called war on Christmas, but it actually began centuries ago. John Avlon has more in today's "Reality Check"/history lesson.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right.

Look, it's coming down the pike, Christmas. And I love it, right? The kids, the tree, the carols, the "It's a Wonderful Life" marathons, all of it. But the season's generosity of spirit always seems to run under the buzz saw of strange people trying to score political points by warning about a war on Christmas.

If you didn't know better, you might think they're talking about Congressman Thomas Massey's gun-toting family Christmas card. But, of course, they're simply repeating the rifts they've heard on Fox News, which has been serving as the war on Christmas headquarters for almost two decades now. And the most enthusiastic field marshal in this phony war is ex-president Donald Trump, who tried to take credit for defeating the ghosts of Christmas past in a fawning, new interview with Mike Huckabee.

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MIKE HUCKABEE: When you came into office, America had gone through a long period where people quit saying Merry Christmas.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Right.

HUCKABEE: It was all, happy holidays. You deliberately changed that.

TRUMP: This was in 2015 when I started campaigning, I said, you're going to say Merry Christmas again, and now people are saying it.

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AVLON: Now, that's tempting to say this is just the old arsonist as firefighter routine with some mistletoe over it, but it is worth asking how this candy cane flavored insanity began.

Well, ex-Fox News anchor Bill O'Reilly commonly gets credit for immaculately conceiving the war on Christmas during a seasonal rant against secular progressives in 2004. But the real story of the war on Christmas actually predates Fox News by decades, if not centuries. And as I found out while researching our latest "Reality Check" digital series, its roots are even weirder and more revealing than you might imagine.

Let's work our way back, starting in 1959, when a notorious wingnut organization, known as the John Birch Society, was busy alerting Americans of an assault on Christmas at the hands of the United Nations, warning there were secret orders at department stores throughout the country to utilize U.N. symbols (ph) and emblems as Christmas decorations.

Now, if that sounds a little bit midcentury tin foil hat to you, check out this more contemporary echo from the 1920s when a Henry Ford- backed publication opined that last Christmas most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated someone's birth. And who was to blame for allegedly taking the Christ out of Christmas? Here's a hint. The name of the series of articles was "The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem." Yes, it's ugly anti-Semitic stuff.

But that's kind of the point. Accusations of a war on Christmas are rooted in what we would now in political terms call negative partisanship. The idea that your perceived opponents are not just mistaken, but evil. So evil that they want to cancel Christmas.

But the ultimate irony is that if you go far back enough, the real war on Christmas was started by puritan Christians. It's true. During the English civil war, these austere English killjoys decided to literally ban Christmas by an order of parliament in 1647. It was considered too indulgent, not focused enough on the Bible. So they made it a time of, quote, fasting and humiliation, seriously. It's a reminder that fundamentalists are just no fun.

And even after the English overturned that unpopular mandate, some puritans exported their ban to the American colonies. In fact, in 17th century Boston, you could get fined five shillings if you got caught celebrating Christmas. And that was a lot of dough back then.

This risk was removed post-revolution with the passage of the First Amendment, protecting the freedom of religion and any latent impulse to conduct a war on Christmas should have been finally laid to rest in 1870 when President Ulysses S. Grant made it a federal holiday.

Christmas has been safely celebrated ever since. Even with occasional skirmishes like lawsuits to remove nativity scenes from public property, which most Americans generally have no problem with keeping, even though it can be seen as violating the constitutional prohibition on any official state religion, which is always worth keeping in mind.

[08:55:12]

Nonetheless, according to Pew research, as many as nine out of every ten Americans say they celebrate Christmas, though not all celebrate in a religious way. So, you and your kids can sleep easy, while waiting for Santa, knowing that the spirit of the season has somehow survived and thrived despite all these Trumped up warnings about the phony war on Christmas.

And that's your "Reality Check."

COLLINS: Austere English killjoys.

BERMAN: Yes, I mean, I think we can safely say, as we are drowning in poinsettias here, that the war on Christmas was the least successful war of all time.

AVLON: Right.

COLLINS: And not that you -- you can't see, but there are Christmas lights on one of the cameras, wrapped around them here, multicolored Christmas lights.

BERMAN: Exactly.

COLLINS: So, don't worry, we are all set here on the NEW DAY set.

AVLON: We're all in here at NEW DAY.

COLLINS: John Avlon, thank you so much.

AVLON: OK.

COLLINS: And here's what else to watch today.

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ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m. ET, Biden at South Carolina state graduation.

10:00 a.m. ET, Kim Potter trial resumes.

12:00 p.m. ET, Elizabeth Holmes trial resumes.

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COLLINS: Released just moments ago, a damning congressional report that claims the Trump administration purposefully undermined the Covid response. We have details ahead.

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BERMAN: Here's how you can help our 2021 top CNN heroes continue their important work. Here's Anderson.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC 360": I'm Anderson Cooper.

Each of this year's top ten CNN heroes proves that one person really can make a difference. And, again, this year we're making it easy for you to support their great work. Just go to cnnheroes.com, click donate beneath any 2021 top ten CNN hero to make a direct contribution to that hero's fundraiser on Go Fund Me. You'll receive an email confirming your donation, which is tax deductible in the United States. No matter the amount, you can make a big difference in helping our heroes continue their life changing work.

And right now, through January 3rd, your donations will be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $500,000.

[09:00:02]

CNN is proud to offer you this simple way to support each cause and celebrate all these everyday people changing the world. You can donate.