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Moderna: Booster Shot Increases Antibody Levels Against Omicron; South African Doctor Treating Omicron Patients Joins New Day; Sen. Manchin On Build Back Better: "This Is A No". Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

DAN RAPAPORT, STAFF WRITER, GOLF DIGEST: So, for him to be at this point, less than 10 months still after that accident, what it looks like he might lose his leg and golf was the furthest thing from anyone's mind. I mean the guy seems to have nine lives. Every time we count him out, he finds a way to piece a body together, to piece a golf swing together, and to hit truly incredible golf shots. This guy is a golfing genius. And if he has any sort of body to stand on, he's going to be good enough to play on the PGA Tour. Some people just have it. And Tiger Woods, with a golf club in his hand, is magic, even after all of these injuries.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It was nice to see him smile. Obviously, he loves playing with his son.

Dan Rapaport, glad you got to be there for it. Thank you so much for being with us.

RAPAPORT: Thanks for having me.

"NEW DAY" continues right now.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, December 20th.

I'm John Berman. Brianna is off. Erica Hill joins me this morning. And we do begin with breaking news.

Moderna released new preliminary data about its COVID-19 booster. It says it does increase antibody levels against the Omicron variant. What that means for your overall protection may still be unclear. But it is seen as good news. And it comes as one expert warns of a viral blizzard this winter fueled by Omicron. Dr. Anthony Fauci says that Americans should brace for potentially, tough few months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: This virus is extraordinary. It has a doubling time of anywhere from two to three days. Right now, in certain regions of the country, 50 percent of the isolates are Omicron, which means it is going to take over. It is going to be tough few weeks to months as we get deeper into the winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, right now the average number of new daily cases in the U.S. is at 130,000. That's up from an average of 70,000 new cases at the beginning of November.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: In New York appears to be once again the epicenter of this new surge. The state now averaging 16,000 new cases daily. That is an increase of 154 percent in less than a week. That spread also putting New Year's Eve in jeopardy in New York City.

Mayor Bill de Blasio says haven't made a decision on that yet. They will soon in terms of what happens with that celebration for the Times Square Ball Drop.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us now with more on this news that was just released by Moderna. What more do we know about those booster shots?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Erica, Moderna's press release was really in many ways quite cryptic. The bottom line is they say, look, a booster helps boost antibodies, but it's unclear if that actually would help you fight Omicron, or how much it would help you fight Omicron.

So, let's take a look at their basic results. So, what Moderna is saying is that their current booster, which is 50 micrograms, that's what you would get if you walked into your local pharmacy that it boosted antibodies. But they said 100 micrograms, double the dose than what you would get if you got it boosted antibodies even higher which of course brings into question. Should they have made it 100 micrograms.

But the effectiveness of either dose against Omicron is unclear. Just because it boosted antibodies does not necessarily mean that it's going to help you in your fight against Omicron.

But I think the bottom line, the sort of take-home message for all of us stays the same. Get vaccinated of course. And get boosted. It did boost antibodies. It's not going to hurt you. And it could help you.

So, bottom line is the same. Get vaccinated and get boosted if you're more than six months past your second shot.

Also, this morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci and others talking about the need for better testing. Dr. Fauci saying we need to flood the country with tests. Right now, the testing situation is not always great in all parts of the country. Erica?

HILL: Certainly, from the beginning. Just really quickly Elizabeth, the reason it's not clear about Omicron, is that simply because they weren't testing it against Omicron when they started to do these - these trials?

COHEN: Right. Of course. When they did the clinical trials back in 2020, Omicron didn't exist. Delta didn't exist. They were testing it against the original form of coronavirus. Sometimes called the wild type. So, you know people didn't even know that Omicron was around. So that is part of the reason, Erica.

HILL: Elizabeth Cohen, appreciate it. Thank you.

COHEN: Thanks.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, CNN medical analyst and former Baltimore City health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen.

Dr. Wen, thanks so much for being with us. Look, we are seeing this huge rise in cases around the country right, particularly where Erica and I are sitting here in New York City. Just a dramatic increase in cases but might not all be awful news. What is your main takeaway this morning?

[07:05:00]

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think there's a lot that's unknown at the moment, John, about what's coming our way. And the reason is that the past with other waves we have seen that arise an infection immediately is followed by overwhelming our hospitals. There is hope that maybe we can avoid this, at least in parts of the country with very high vaccination rates. Because it seems that people who are vaccinated are still well protected against hospitalization, against severe disease due to Omicron.

But we haven't tested this. And we also don't know what about in parts of the country that are already getting overwhelmed because of Delta. And they have large pockets of unvaccinated individuals. What is their hospital system going to look like?

I sure hope that we don't get into another situation where people who are coming in for other medical problems other than COVID where they can't find a bed or be admitted to the hospital. But it remains to be seen. And I think this is why it is a call to action for my main takeaway, which is of course, continue to get vaccinated if you're unvaccinated but also those individuals who have not yet had their booster shots. What more are you waiting for before getting that booster to protect yourself?

HILL: You know we have some questions. I think people are really trying to navigate what to do as we move. You know here we are in the Christmas week. Really, people are planning what to do. So, we got this question from Fran who says, I'm 81. My son is 61. We're fully vaccinated. If he visits his adult daughter and her husband who are unvaccinated, could he get the virus and give it to me?

WEN: Yes. We know that breakthrough infections are happening. That doesn't mean that the vaccines don't work. Rather it means that there is just so much virus around us, that even vaccinated people are getting the spillover effect.

And so, what I would recommend is if somebody is - if somebody who's vaccinated visits unvaccinated family members, ideally everybody should get tested the day of the visit. And if the vaccinated individual is then going to be visiting somebody who is older, immunocompromised, ideally, they leave three days in between. Essentially, they quarantine in that period, and then get tested again before seeing that very vulnerable individual.

BERMAN: Dr. Wen, this is a good time for you to bring up. I think what you have is, your two out of three rule for safe interactions Dr. Wen. Explain to people what that is.

WEN: For people who are gathering indoors over the holidays, I would recommend at this point when there's so much virus around us that you have two out of the three things. Vaccination, testing, or masking.

So, if you are fully vaccinated and ideally boosted, and you want to see other people indoors without a mask, meaning maybe you want to have dinner with them. Ideally, everybody also gets tested that same day with a rapid test.

I know tests are hard to come by in parts of the country. But that is the ideal, is that you get tested. If you're going to be -- if nobody is vaccinated or if there are some people there who are unvaccinated, if you are getting together, you should be masked and you should be tested. Basically, you should have two out of three things. Vaccination, testing or masking at this point with that much virus around us.

HILL: Really quickly, in terms of testing, as you said, it needs to be done that same day. So, if you took a test, let's say, Christmas Eve and you're meeting up with people on Christmas, you were negative on Christmas Eve, does it mean you still are on Christmas Day?

WEN: That's exactly right. The closer your test is to when you're gathering with people the better. And I think this is something that the Biden administration really needs to work on. They have done so well when it comes to vaccinations. That's great.

But they now need to put the same amount of effort to increasing access to testing. Why not mail test to every American? Why not use the UK or Germany or so many other approaches from around the world where everybody is able to get tests? Testing should not be the limiting factor.

BERMAN: And right now, very limiting. I mean they're just not available when you need them and want them if you go out and search for them.

Dr. Wen, please stick around for a second. Stand by, if you will. Because we're going to speak to someone now who is in the middle of the country that we have been watching perhaps the most closely over the last few weeks. South Africa, where we first detected the Omicron variant.

Joining me now is the national chair of South Africa's Medical Association, Dr. Angelique Coetzee. She was one of the first doctors to treat Omicron patients. Doctor, we're thrilled to have you. Because I think in the United States, we can learn a lot about your experience over the last month. You've been dealing with this now for quite a long time. We're just beginning to deal with it now.

So, I just want to start with cases. What are you seeing in terms of the number of cases at this point, up, down, stable, what?

DR. ANGELIQUE COETZEE, CHAIR, SOUTH AFRICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Good afternoon.

Yes, it is a very interesting question. What we currently see is our cases sort of we are over the curve. It is sort of coming down. You know in Gauteng, which was the epicenter, the number is much lower. It is, however, still spreading to the Western Cape and because of the holidays. But you know all -- in total, if you look at our numbers, it's going down.

[07:10:03]

Our positivity rate still stays high, it's about -- around about 30 percent. And the reason is that people go and test. There's a lot of testing done. Incidentally, since the 9th of December, it seems there are more people go for tests than going for to get their vaccines. It's very interesting to still look at the behavior of people.

So, our ICU cases, if we look at the cases yesterday, 19th of December, always look back one day or two, the admissions of the 18th of December, across 666 facilities in South Africa was 87. And currently, in all our ICUs and all of this, 666 facilities, we currently have 534 in ICU. And 212 ventilated.

Now, I need to also make you aware that if we say there are 535 cases in ICU, not all of them has been admitted for COVID. Some were admitted for something else and coincidentally COVID.

BERMAN: Let me see if I can break that down a little bit. So, the audience here in the United States can understand it better.

First, I just want to reiterate one of the more important things. You said which is that in the province where it all started, you're starting to see the case numbers go down. You're past peak there. That's interesting because if that were to happen here, that means it's three weeks - two to three weeks and then the cases start to go down.

Number two, hospitalization. When you're talking about more severe illnesses, was there direct core - how much severe illness was there with this case surge versus other variants previously?

COETZEE: Much, much. When we look at Delta, it was 400, 500 people per day admitted. If we look at Omicron, as I've said 87 yesterday, and our numbers are more or less the whole time around this. You know, if I look at -- I don't have yesterday's deaths -- numbers with me. But if we look at our death numbers, you know on 9th of December -- 22, 10, 49, next are 36, 11. One day we had 54. And that's more or less our death rate that we do have.

We don't see - we don't see a high death rate with Omicron. And we presume that most of the people most probably has Omicron that in ICU. Again, we're not sure, because we don't in ICU distinguish between Omicron and Delta. That's still something that needs to be addressed for now.

BERMAN: Got you. So, no huge rise. You saw huge spike in cases, not a corresponding rise in hospitalizations, not a corresponding rise in deaths, which leads to the question, do you now have a sense of the relative severity of people infected with the Omicron? In the UK, they're saying they're not convinced there are less severe cases. But I think you're getting a different story in South Africa. Explain.

COETZEE: Yeah. I'm now saying that in South Africa, we see mild cases with mostly unvaccinated people admitted in ICU. So, if we look, 9 out of 10 of the people with COVID, or incidental are mostly unvaccinated.

And in Europe, they see severe, severe, severe cases. That's politically correct because I can't understand for the life of me why South Africa will see mostly mild cases. We are not that much vaccinated in our country. About 40 percent, 42 percent of all adults has been vaccinated. Our younger generation has not really been starting to get themselves vaccinated. We've got a high burden of HIV and TB in our country. And then people will say, yes, but we've got a -- you know lot of people, because of the Delta, that we saw that already had Delta and that got immunity you know.

So, I want to say that if we look at our stats regarding unvaccinated people, now I'm talking about healthcare practice, you know at (INAUDIBLE) level, about half of them are unvaccinated. And with no previous history of any COVID disease. So, it either means that we get asymptomatic being infected with previous variants or we don't - we can't distinguish when we are sick, which I very much doubt in South Africa.

BERMAN: Dr. Angelique Coetzee, thank you so much. This is really instructive for us here based on your longer experience dealing with Omicron. It gives us a sense of what we might see here in the United States. So, thank you so much for being with us.

[07:15:03]

COETZEE: Thank you so much. And please stay safe.

BERMAN: You too.

HILL: Back with us now CNN medical analyst, former Baltimore City health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen.

Dr. Wen, you know as -- as John just pointed out, what we heard from the doctor there is she said they're now on the other side of this curve. They're coming down in the epicenter where this started in South Africa. So that means potentially -- or I guess does it mean potentially we could be looking at a similar trajectory here in the United States? WEN: That is the best part of the news based on what Dr. Coetzee has just said which is that it seems that at least in the Gauteng province where Johannesburg is in South Africa at the epicenter, it looks like they were looking at a trajectory of three to four weeks of Omicron really being dominant, driving the number of infections and now it's trending down again.

In the U.S., there are some issues with extrapolation.

First is that we have a lot of different parts of the country, including some that are not well vaccinated. Other parts where it might take a little bit of time for Omicron to get to.

And so, I don't think we could say that the U.S. as a whole is going to be out of this in three to four weeks. It might be a case of rolling cases where there are large numbers of infection in parts of the country that then cycle to others.

The other part of the extrapolation in South Africa is that the populations are very different. South Africa has a much younger population. The individuals also were initially infected tended to be young people. So, even if they were unvaccinated, the chance of them being severely ill is relatively low.

Here in the U.S., we have not yet seen what happens when Omicron rips through nursing homes, as an example. And so, I would really hesitate to say that Omicron is somehow going to not cause severe disease in the U.S. even if it hasn't overwhelmed hospital systems in South Africa.

BERMAN: Right. I do want to put up New York City's numbers though. Hospitalization numbers, if we can. And we're running out of time. But I do want people to see this.

This is the most recent hospitalizations data here in New York City. And you can see the gray line in the middle is overall, hospitalizations are ticking up a little, but they are not spiking with the case spikes, at least not yet. What you do see is hospitalizations among unvaccinated people are shooting up. So, you know, a figure like this should provide, I would think, some hope, Dr. Wen, for vaccinated people here in New York City where things are bad.

WEN: Absolutely. If you are vaccinated and you're boosted and you're generally healthy, you're probably going to have very mild symptoms, if any symptoms at all. And that's really reassuring. Of course, the issue is that if you are unvaccinated, you are not making a choice only for yourself.

If you're unvaccinated, and you end up going to the hospital, you also task the healthcare workers that are already overburdened and you're preventing other individuals for coming in with heart attacks, strokes and car accidents from ideal care as well.

So, a decision to remain unvaccinated does not only affect you.

HILL: Yeah. And potentially passing onto people who are perhaps too young to even get the vaccinations, to kids for example.

Dr. Leana Wen always good to have you. Thank you.

WEN: Thank you.

HILL: Senator Joe Manchin dealing what could be a fatal blow to the president's signature domestic legislation. So, on this Monday morning of the holiday week, where do key parts of Build Back Better go from here?

And overnight, Israel banning travel from the United States as the prime minister warns the wave is coming. We've got the latest on the global response just ahead.

And swinging into theaters and into the history books. Spiderman becoming the biggest Box Office hero of the pandemic era.

[07:22:42]

HILL: This morning, the White House reeling after Democratic Senator Joe Manchin announced he's a no on President Biden's Build Back Better plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation. I just can't. I've tried everything humanly possible. I can't get there.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You're done? This is a no?

MANCHIN: This is a no, on this legislation. I have tried everything I know to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Sources say President Biden, who learned of Manchin's plan just minutes before that appearance, was furious. White House press secretary Jen Psaki fired off a statement -- scathing statement saying Manchin promised to continue speaking with the White House, adding, quote, "If his comments on Fox and written statement indicate an end to that effort, they represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position, and a breach of his commitments to the president and the senator's colleagues in the House and the Senate."

Joining us now, CNN political commentator S. E. Cupp and CNN political analyst David Gregory.

Good to see you both this morning.

I mean, whoa, talk about comments that got a lot of pick up after Sunday morning here as we look at what the fallout has been. David, we had a letter from Nancy Pelosi yesterday. Dear colleague letter basically, saying, sort of it's going to be OK. I think trying to smooth things over. Senator Schumer this morning making it very clear he wants a vote on

this in the Senate come the new year. I wonder, how much do you think Democrats are sort of hanging their hopes on Manchin saying this legislation, David?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. Well, they may be doing that. But the reality is this is a big blow. This Build Back Better plan is not happening. And this has been the White House pushing this rock up the hill. And they can't get it done. And they go into the holidays and into a new year with a key piece of the president's agenda not getting done. That's the bottom line.

Now, can they revive it somehow? Can they scale back the program? Sure. All of that is possible. It's a 50/50 Senate. Manchin is a mercurial person to be dealing with, from people I have talked to within the White House. We know this to be true. And you know he may want to be a king maker in some ways when it comes to this legislation.

But we don't know that. What we know is what is today, which is a president who is reeling from a resurgence of COVID, low approval numbers, and now a key piece of his legislation that for today is done even if it could be revived down the road.

[07:25:13]

BERMAN: You know, S. E., the White House basically accused Joe Manchin of breaking his word, which you do not hear that type of thing often in Washington. They were surprised they indicated by Joe Manchin. But isn't it their job not to be surprised by something like that? They were e surprised. Isn't their job tot to be surprised by something like that?

S. E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Indeed. I mean this didn't happen mysteriously in the Bermuda Triangle. This happened in Washington and it happened in West Virginia where Joe Biden lost by 40 points. There's no mystery as to why Joe Manchin wasn't into this. Because his constituents are not into this. That has been known for a real long time.

So, I understand the White House feeling a little blind-sided by Joe Manchin going on, you know, Fox News and saying, I'm done, before you know effectively letting them know. But this is always how it was going to go, I think.

And what Democrats don't foresee very well traditionally is the value of incrementalism. Getting the small wins where you can. And no one understood that better than Barack Obama. In fact, he was often sort of criticized by the far-left flanks of his party for not going bigger or farther.

But he got small wins. And even to this day he defends incrementalism by talking about how you build momentum off the smaller wins. Democrats could have a number of smaller wins right now. Instead, you know, they're really disappointed of not getting this big spending bill passed. And there isn't a clear path forward on how to do that. HILL: David, is there any chance that they could salvage some small wins, to S. E.'s point, by breaking this into smaller pieces, or has that ship sailed too?

GREGORY: Well, I agree with S. E. You know they - I think had the mistake in view, coming into office, that this was a bigger political moment than it actually was. And that Joe Biden was going to pull off FDR like LBJ like legislation. And I just don't think that was going to happen. Especially after the government over expended itself so much in COVID relief.

And then he gets an infrastructure bill you know finally. But I just don't think that the climate has been right politically to get this Build Back Better bill, all more of the spending, all the pressure from the progressive left.

And to your question, yes, I suppose - I mean I think these details are going to escape a lot of Americans who are just, kind of looking out saying oh, well he didn't get it done. But you know, do they fund fewer programs for longer, do they bring down the price tag?

I mean you know it's very difficult to follow the ins and outs of this as we move forward. And to go from something really big to something much more scaled down, I just don't think that that is a great look for the White House. I will point out this though. This has been complicated by the nature of a 50/50 Senate. And again, you know somebody like a Joe Manchin, who has been empowered the way he has, it's not clear to me.

We know what the politics of West Virginia are. This is legislation that could have done a lot of good for his constituents in West Virginia. And that's been made clear. It doesn't mean that that was enough to sway his vote or to deal with the kind of larger politics right now, which there are economic head winds. There is inflation. There's COVID. And people are not feeling great about the heading of the country. And it's not a time for government to pull off something really big, especially something they have been promising for months that they can't seem to get agreement on.

BERMAN: There is COVID. David Gregory just said, S. E., which might be the understatement of the century where we are at least right now in New York City and the northeast. I mean these cases. This moment that we're in is extraordinary. I don't know that it's worse.

I mean, you know, compared to moments we have been in before. But it is extraordinary with these case numbers rising. And I think it is curious that the president is going to address the nation on this. But tomorrow. I wonder why not today. Is there a rationality behind that?

CUPP: You know, I don't know the answer to that. And it could be very simply that he doesn't have complete data today, and he will have it tomorrow. Maybe he's waiting to hear from some health officials or folks in the administration, scientists, doctors. I don't know the answer to that. I'm glad that he is going to talk about it. Because I think as fatigued as we all are about more COVID, and another crappy holiday season. It is important for the president of the United States to get up and tell us what he knows. So you know rather than, you know, worry about the day he does that, I'm glad he is. And it seems like Joe Biden speaks when he has something to say and not just because he owns the bully pulpit. I think that's a good thing.

HILL: We'll be watching. S. E. Cupp, David Gregory, thank you both.

CUPP: Thanks.