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Biden Says Vaccinated Americans Should Go Ahead with Holiday Plans; Biden Defends Build Back Better, Pledges to Get Something Done; Washington Post Runs Op-Ed Called The Torment of Hope in the Time of the Plague. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 22, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:02]

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And an important move comes, Erica, after the NHL announced a shutdown of all league operations starting today until Sunday to try to curb that recent surge we've seen in the league.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEW DAY: Sports in the age of COVID. Andy, appreciate it. Thank you.

SCHOLES: All right.

HILL: And New Day continues right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, December 22nd. I'm john Berman. Brianna is off. Erica Hill joins me all week. What a week.

HILL: Yes. It's quite a holiday week, isn't it?

BERMAN: President Biden telling Americans who are vaccinated and boosted they can gather safely with family and friends over these holidays, as they normally would. Speaking to the nation, the president rejected lockdowns and school closures despite a COVID surge driven by the highly transmissible omicron variant. He says we're better prepared now than in the early pre-vaccine days of the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We should all be concerned about omicron, but not panicked. And, no, this is not March of 2020. 200 million people are fully vaccinated. We're prepared. We know more. We just have to stay focused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: As for the unvaccinated, the president says it is their patriotic duty to get the shot. And he had a stark warning for those who do not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Almost everyone who has died from COVID-19 in the past many months has been unvaccinated.

And I honest to God believe it's your patriotic duty.

The choice can be a difference between life or death. Please, get vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So, the White House plan to combat the virus includes expanding testing sites across the country, distributing 500 million free at- home tests to those who request them starting next month, deploying 1,000 military service members to strained hospitals and also adding new vaccination sites.

While cases are skyrocketing, it's really the overall hospitalization numbers that we need to keep an eye on. They are rising steadily, not yet spiking.

BERMAN: Joining us is now Professor William Haseltine. He taught at Harvard Medical School and he's known for a long career in research and treatments for deadly viruses. Professor, thank you so much for being with us.

I want to start with what I think is probably the most important development from what President Biden said yesterday. His guidance to Americans who are vaccinated and boosted, he says you can gather safely with your loved ones on this Christmas holiday. How do you feel about that guidance?

WILLIAM HASELTINE, PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: I think that's only partially correct. I think to be safe, you need to be vaccinated and tested one day before you gather. And the reason I say that is that this virus doesn't respond to the vaccines, the ones we've got. In fact, even after the third boost and three months later, there's virtually no protection, at least from the Pfizer vaccine. So, that because you're vaccinated, it doesn't mean you're not infecting.

There other thing that people are talking about, yes, it may protect you for some time from being hospitalized or dying but it may not protect you from long COVID. And that is a serious issue, as many as 10 percent to 20 percent of people. Even if they're not sick, you have long COVID. And we now know in many cases, long COVID lasts more than a year.

My bottom line is vaccinated plus tested means safety for your family and yourself.

BERMAN: But that is achievable. Assuming you can get your hands on an instant test, which is not easy, frankly. But if you can and you get tested, you think that you can gather safely on this holiday even with maybe travel, you know, on train or plane or through airports.

HASELTINE: Travel is a big question. I am concerned about how transmissible this is. And you can't be sure that everybody on that plane or on that train has been tested within 24 hours. Getting together with your family, if it doesn't require being cooped up in a plane or a long period in a train, or it's probably safe going to visit your family in your own car is going to be safe. But I would have serious questions about hopping on a plane in the era of omicron.

BERMAN: The testing surge announced by the president yesterday, 500 million tests by sometime in January through a website, although it's a little unclear exactly how that will work, also creating new testing centers in cities, including New York, how effective do you think that will be to battle this surge that we're already in? I mean, to an extent, we need the tests yesterday.

[07:05:00]

HASELTINE: We do need these tests yesterday. And the number of tests that are being proposed is woefully inadequate. As early as September 2020, I wrote a piece for CNN as a matter of fact saying what is the way we can combat this vaccine in the absence of an effective vaccine? In fact, we are now there in the absence of an effective vaccine, at least as far as infection and transmission goes.

The way to do that is test everybody in this country at least two or three times a week. That means billions of tests, not hundreds of millions of tests. You can also reduce the costs. The real cost of this should be 50 cents. Abbott supplied 100 million similar tests to Egypt for 50 cents each. We can do it. We should. We're behind the curve that we've got to catch up weekly.

BERMAN: Israel announcing it is going to offer -- or actually suggest that people get a fourth shot there if you're over 60 years old. What do you think about that?

HASELTINE: Well, I saw -- the moment I saw the results of the third booster shot from the Pfizer vaccine failed to protect most people after three months, I immediately sent notes to all of my friends who -- most of whom are over 60, as you might imagine, to get the fourth booster. And, in fact, I have my fourth booster, as does my wife. It's a very sound policy. It's the only thing I think we can do from the vaccine front right now until we have better vaccines or better drugs.

BERMAN: I will say that's not nothing though. Look, I know you say it wanes after three months, the booster protection, but three months is three months. I mean, three months, you know it counts. I mean, three months, as you know, if you're in the middle of my three -- I got boosted three weeks ago, and I feel great about the fact that I got boosted three weeks ago. I feel I have at least some protection over this omicron surge.

HASELTINE: Well, let me say, you do have still protection against hospitalization and death as far as we can tell. We don't know how long that will last. We don't know if you have protection against long COVID.

So, it is important to get the vaccines. I don't want people to misunderstand that. Vaccines are really critical possibly to save your life and those whom you love. But it isn't the panacea we thought it would be. Therefore, if you're over 60, I agree with the Israelis, it's time to get another shot.

BERMAN: Professor Haseltine, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

HASELTINE: You're welcome, John.

HILL: President Biden says vaccinated Americans can go ahead with holiday plans. But if you're wondering how to make those plans safer, let's talk to an expert.

Erin Bromage teaches about Infection and Immunology at University of Massachusetts Dartmouth. Nice to see you back this morning.

So, we're going to go rapid fire here because I know people have a lot of questions. The first one being, if you're getting together with friends or family, what should you do? When do you test?

ERIN BROMAGE, BIOLOGY PROFESSOR, UMASS-DARTMOUTH: Yes. So, good morning, Erica.

So, if you're getting together with friends and family, testing is really about getting those rapid tests and doing it immediately before actually getting together. The day before doesn't really work with the rate at which this virus goes from non-detectable to detectable and infectious. So, testing immediately before if you can get your hands on rapid tests, the day before if you can only do PCR, and then turning them around in 24 hours.

HILL: What if you're getting together with people who are not vaccinated? Let's talk specifically first about kids, where children under five who aren't even eligible for a vaccine. Should you change the way you interact with those kids, even if you are vaccinated and even boosted?

BROMAGE: Yes. I mean, everyone had the choice now to decide what they're going to do. Are you going to get vaccinated, not vaccinated, if you get boosted or not get boosted? So, those people that have gone out and got vaccinated and those people who have got vaccinated and boosted have really tilted the odds way in their favor that they may end up getting infected from this, but one of the key things is not sickness, and so keeping out of hospital, keeping out of having days and days and days off work because you're so sick.

So, yes there will be unvaccinated people at Christmas, especially those that are zero through five years old. But the ones that are most at risk have now had a chance of defining what risk looks like for them and what they're going to do. So, when we're looking at Christmas gatherings it's about what your risk tolerance is right now. And, yes, unvaccinated people are going to be there but you have chosen your path in regards to vaccine and how you are going to be protected.

HILL: But is there anything specifically we should do especially for those who can't be vaccinated? Kids under five can't choose whether or not they wanted to be vaccinated. They don't have the option. BROMAGE: Yes. Well, I'm not dismissing the risk to those under five. But the risks are very low of any poor outcomes at them at all. So, as your previous guests mentioned, getting together, people being primarily vaccinated have the risk of it coming in, and then the testing that comes together.

[07:10:03]

So, if you put a buffer around those people that are actually vulnerable, you can actually vulnerable, you can actually protect them through you being that firewall coming in.

HILL: What about going back to school? We're seeing a lot of different approaches from different schools. What do you think would be the smartest protocol before kids go back in January?

BROMAGE: Yes. So, schools absolutely have to go back in person in January but you've got to go in with your eyes open based on the data that's actually happening or what's happening in your community in regards to infections. So, children and teachers and staff all need to be tested immediately prior going to school.

In states like Massachusetts, we rolled out for test-and-stay. But, again, testing on the morning you're coming in or the week leading up to it will help lower it down. But then being hyper vigilant about protocols in that first week so that you can adjust, capture the risk from the holiday break and get back to school safely.

HILL: For people who are traveling, and some folks maybe traveling for Christmas this weekend. But then after that you've got -- for a lot of people a whole week off. They may have had trips planned, what should you take into account as you assess the risk? What do you need to do before you travel?

BROMAGE: Before you travel, you know, you do owe a responsibility to society. We are not just little objects moving around by ourselves. We actually affect what happens in society. So, if you are going to travel, it makes sense to test before you jump on a plane. When you're actually traveling, just make sure that you're looking at the risks. And the risks are face-to-face interactions and shared air.

So, you can actually travel safely and defining safely as not ending up in a hospital that maybe being infected. But you can travel safely as long as you the mind risks which are wear masks, avoid indoor spaces that are crowded, those type of things, sorry.

HILL: It's all right. And keep that mask on, right, as long as you're on the plan and you're masked, maybe minimized -- assuming minimized eating and drinking on the plane?

BROMAGE: Yes. So, planes are not no risk but they are low risk for infections due to the high quality air and filtration that they have inside that, so a good quality mask on you. And then it really comes down to the neighbor on the plane. If it's family member, you have an added extra risk. The most risk is that person sitting beside you. So, if you've got a really chatty person or a person that eating beside you that can't stop talking, then maybe keep your mask up for a little bit longer.

HILL: That's the excuse people have always looked for, when they didn't want to chat to their chatting neighbor, right? Sorry. It's COVID. I'm going to stay quiet.

I'm sure you're getting asked this question a lot because, as an expert, people want to know what are the experts doing. What are you doing this holiday? Have you changed your plans?

BROMAGE: We haven't changed our plans too much. We have a fairly small family. I do have an elderly grandparent that is actually coming. So, what we have done as a family is just lowered the risk this week before she arrives to make sure that she's not walking into an infected household, because if she gets infected, she's the most at risk for poor outcomes.

We've also got rapid tests. I bought them weeks ago. I've got them here, just, again, to make sure. Because It's not so much about myself, my family that have very good health, it's those that may not have the better health, such as her, that we are trying to protect from our gatherings.

HILL: Erin Bromage, great to see you again. I appreciate the guidance, thank you. And happy holidays.

BROMAGE: Happy holidays to you, Erica.

HILL: Coming up, Trump allies stonewalling the investigation into January 6th, Michael Flynn even suing the committee.

And what former President Trump now plans to do on the one-year anniversary of the Capitol insurrection, just the latest effort to rewrite history.

BERMAN: Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Did Senator Manchin break his commitment to you?

BIDEN: Senator Manchin and I are going to get something done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Is the president --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

BERMAN: President Biden expressing optimism that he and West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin can still come to a consensus and pass some version of his key domestic agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: Maybe I'm not Irish because I don't hold a grudge. Look, I want to get things done. I still thi8nk there is a possibility of getting the Build Back Better done.

REPORTER: Did Senator Manchin break his commitment to you?

BIDEN: Senator Manchin and I are going to get something done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining me now, former Democratic U.S. Senator and host of the Al Franken podcast, Al Franken. Senator, thanks so much for being with us.

President Biden says, Joe Manchin and I are going to get something done. How right is he?

FMR. SEN. AL FRANKEN (D-MN): I hope he's right. And this has been back and forth and up and down. It looked really bad a couple of days ago. He was on the caucus call. There seems to be some hope there. There are things Joe is very much for, like universal pre-K, which is great stuff.

Joe has some good points. He doesn't want things to stop after five years and then have to pay another five years. That's not such a terrible concept. So, I think there's some there there. And people I talk to those who are in that call think there is some reason for some optimism.

BERMAN: What's your advice? Look, If they were going to listen to you, what deal would you tell Democrats, maybe the more progressive Democrats to take at this point given how Manchin feels what he feels?

[07:20:04]

FRANKEN: Well, I would take some wins. And what Joe was saying is -- what the Democrats tried to do was, okay, let's put every program we want in but only pay for four years. And then we will keep paying more (INAUDIBLE). But those programs will work so well that everyone will want to keep them.

I think what Joe is saying, let's do a few programs really well. I am surprised where he is come down on the child tax credit. And I think that can be worked out. My goodness, West Virginians could really use that. But I think universal pre-K to me is just a huge thing to do. And child care would be a huge thing to accomplish. And take some victories, do them and show people that we are capable of doing those things.

Now, it is getting later and later to be able to demonstrate that we can do those things even after we pass them before the November election, but I think it is incumbent upon us to do that.

Also, Joe is saying I would like high income people to pay more taxes. I'm for that. I know that Sinema kind of nixed that, but I think almost every progressive is for that. This may not be so bad if we get a few really important things done.

BERMAN: I do want to ask, there are Democratic members of Congress who seem to be heading for the hills at this point, a lot of retirements, particularly in the House of Representatives. I think we're up to 22, maybe 23, I've lost count, including one of the more recent ones, Stephanie Murphy from Florida, who is in more of a swing district there. You know what this portends in midterms elections when members start voting with their feet in a way.

FRANKEN: Yes. It's not good. I think there are Republicans leaning too. My sense is it's not much fun there. It just seems to get worse and worse. The Republican Party now is so -- they seem to be about one thing, which is stealing election. There is nothing they want to get done. They just want to stop everything and they just -- well, the only thing we can do right now that we want to do is figure out how to change the laws in these state so we can steal the election. That's what their party is about now.

BERMAN: On that subject, the January 6th committee has asked Congressman Scott Perry to come in and testify willingly. He has refused. Do you think they should try to force him with a subpoena?

FRANKEN: Yes. Yes. They should refer him to the Justice Department. I've been saying for a while now that they should make criminal referrals to DOJ on Bannon and on Meadows and now on Scott. They should just be doing that. There were crimes here. And I don't know what the Justice Department is. They may be quietly doing this stuff anyway.

BERMAN: So, on the criminal referrals that they have charged Bannon with contempt of Congress, the Meadows referral is out, Perry could happen too, there is reporting that the committee is considering criminal referrals on issues beyond just contempt of Congress, criminal referrals on maybe financial issues with some of the fundraising around January 6th, criminal referrals maybe on the former president himself. They're not saying they say they are considering all of that. Is that something that you would like to see from the committee and why?

FRANKEN: Well, absolutely. There's a crime here, which is interfering with Congress trying to do something, which is to, you know, elect the president. And that was clearly -- that's a crime. And I think it's clear that Meadows, those people and the president engaged in that crime. So, yes, I think there's -- I really would be curious -- the Justice Department should be quiet about this but they should be investigating the crimes.

BERMAN: Senator Al Franken, it's great to see you. We wish we could see you in person but not these days given the situation we're in with omicron. Have a wonderful holiday.

FRANKEN: We'll all be behind this.

BERMAN: Someday.

FRANKEN: You have a good holiday. BERMAN: All right. Librarians fighting back in a war on books.

[07:25:02]

HILL: And is there in danger in hope during the pandemic? The provocative new op-ed from an exhausted Max Boot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Hope can feel like it is pretty tough to come by these days as we are staring down this pandemic. My next guest says he's plagued by it though, so much though that he is turning to German philosophy. Nietzsche once wrote, hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man, which is the opening line of a new piece by Washington Post Columnist Max Boot, who joins me now. Max, it's good to see you this morning.

I have to say, I identified so much with what you wrote in your piece, specifically trying to hold onto that hope. I do want to talk about the hope. But, first, I want to ask about the anxiety. You write the anxiety is debilitating. And it is not so much about the concern about getting the virus but it is all about the other decisions and everything that goes into daily life. I think so many people can identify with that anxiety and the lack of answers, it feels like.

[07:30:00]

MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Right. We all kind of have to be amateur epidemiologists again trying to figure out every single decision we make. Is it okay to go to the movies?