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Dr. Ashish Jha is Interviewed about Breakthrough Infection Data; Weekly Jobless Claims Rise; Stephen A. Smith is Interviewed about Irving's Refusal to get Vaccinated. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 20, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:41]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

As breakthrough infections of omicron continue to sweep the country, scientists are pointing to a phenomenon they call hybrid immunity. According to "The New York Times," quote, a recent study showed that vaccinated healthcare workers with breakthrough infections have significantly higher levels of antibodies compared to a vaccinated control group that have not had natural infections. The findings suggest a drastically elevated level of protection after a breakthrough infection.

Joining us now is Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University School of Public Health.

Dr. Jha, always good to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

So, help us understand this a little bit. Why is it -- is it possible that this is happening and does this mean that people who have had a breakthrough infection can party like it's 2019?

DR. ASHISH K. JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Kasie, good morning. Thanks for having me back.

Well, we know that infections confer immunity for a short period of time. That for the first 90 days or so after in infection, you get a pretty robust immune response.

The big question on kind of infection induced immunity, what some people like to call natural immunity, is, how long does it last? Once you get beyond 90 days, do you still have a lot of protection? We don't know.

But right now what we're seeing is a lot of people with breakthrough infections, as you said. And if you're vaccinated and boosted and you've had a breakthrough infection, you really have a very, very high level of immunity right now and probably for the next 90 days. Beyond the next 90 days, harder to stay.

I still -- you know, if I were in that position, I would say, you certainly can relax a bit more. I don't know that I would party like it's 2019. That said, I think you should feel a lot more confident that you're not going to get reinfected. Not in the next few months.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And, look, obviously there are risks. This doesn't mean that people should run out and try to get infected because there are clear risks with getting omicron. Your -- the best solution is never getting it at all, right?

Listen, I am --

JHA: Well, let me be very, very clear about that.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

JHA: Yes, no doubt. Like, this is not a prescription for going out and getting infected because the consequences of getting infected, even if you've had a breakthrough infection, everybody I know has had a breakthrough infection, you know, they -- they haven't gotten in the hospital. They haven't gotten super sick. But they've been pretty miserable for a bunch of days. And I'm not sure why you'd want to subject yourself to that when, you know, the bottom line is that getting vaccine-induced immunity is quite terrific as well. So, I do not recommend omicron parties right now.

BERMAN: Yes.

Dr. Jha, look, I'm obsessed with the data that we're seeing from New York, Boston, Washington, D.C., that it really does seem that the worst of omicron is over. Pretty quickly, too. I mean very quickly. The cases are dropping precipitously. Hospitalizations are dropping precipitously. And I just want to know what this means going forward. I understand it's going through other parts of the country. Hopefully the cases drop there at the same rate that they've dropped here.

But what does this mean for all of us going forward, especially because so many people have become infected? Are we about to enter a phase, maybe one of the better phases that we've been in since this all began?

JHA: Yes. So that's a great question. So here's what I think where we are now.

I do think, as you said, cases are dropping in the -- in the eastern seaboard let's say from New York down to Florida, but not everywhere. But other parts of the country still rising. But, nationally, we have peaked, and we have started turning that corner. I think infections are going to come down.

Let me make two points about that for the short run. In the short run we're still going to see an enormous number of infections in the couple of weeks ahead. Probably as many people infected as the cases drop as got infected on the way up. So the next couple of weeks be very careful.

Once we get beyond that, I expect infection numbers to get much, much lower across the country and for us to be in a phase, a period of time where infections are low. We should not assume that the pandemic is over. We should start assuming that we're going to get another variant. We've got to prepare for future surges. And we've got to build up our stockpiles to get ready for that. But we should also enjoy that time that we're going to get. The reprieve that is definitely coming, I think, after this omicron surge is over.

HUNT: Well, if Berman is obsessed with the reprieve, ,which is entirely justified, I am obsessed with when we're going to have a vaccine for children between the ages of six months and five years. I've got a two-and-a-half-year-old at home.

BERMAN: You have to recuse yourself from this.

HUNT: I know, right, officially. I'm officially not an unbiased journalist in asking this question. But we do have a little bit of new -- new news, shall we say, from Dr. Fauci, who said that perhaps this actually could come a little bit more quickly than some parents were saying. He talked about studies showed that they actually did have the correct dose and that the dose that was used in kids between six and 24 months was not an inferior response to that in adults.

[08:35:07]

Can you tell us a little bit about what he was talking about and whether there's a reason for parents like us to be optimistic?

JHA: Yes, first and foremost, I think there is a reason for parents of kids under five (INAUDIBLE). I do believe we're going to see some sort of an authorization in the next four to six weeks. I don't know exactly what time, obviously.

Basically what happened was, in that age group, the Pfizer trial ran with a much, much lowered (INAUDIBLE) data suggested that the level of antibody response was not adequate in certain kids. What we're doing now with the studies are is following those kids over a long period of time, giving a third dose and seeing if the third dose is helpful. All of that put together, I think we're going to have pretty compelling evidence, I'm hoping in the next few weeks, to show that we can begin the vaccination schedule for kids under five.

So, let's look at the data. I think more is coming on this. But I would be optimistic that we're going to get -- we're going to be able to get it (ph).

HUNT: All right, I'm going to cross my fingers and my toes.

Dr. Ashish Jha, thank you very much for being here. We really appreciate your expertise.

JHA: Thank you. HUNT: All right, in a surprising development this morning, why did the FBI just raid the home of a Democratic congressman? And now we're getting word of a second location that was raided.

BERMAN: And just released, the weekly unemployment report. We'll tell you what it says and what it means for the next few weeks, months, year in this economy.

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[08:40:28]

BERMAN: Just in moments ago, the weekly jobless claims.

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans has the numbers.

What do they say?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John.

Looks to me like omicron disruption in a pretty strong job market, 286,000 layoffs, new layoffs. First-time unemployment claims in the most recent week. And that is the highest I can see since October.

So, what we have seen, big picture, you can see it there, is just a fantastic-looking picture over all for layoffs. I mean companies don't want to lay people off in such a strong job market, and they haven't been. This most recent week, though, we saw more than 50,000 extra layoffs in there. That could be omicron at work as some companies are cutting hours, they're having to cut shifts. We'll have to see how that plays out. But for the most part, the trend there is what has been so important, and that is a still very close to the lowest in 50 years jobless claims because of the engine of the job market in this economy. And 3.9 percent, don't forget, is the unemployment rate. That has happened pretty quickly over the past couple of years. So still, overall, a strong picture for jobs. But in the most recent week -- in the most recent week we have seen a surprising uptick here in some layoffs, though, still near the lowest in 50 years.

BERMAN: It bears watching.

ROMANS: Yes.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, thank you very much.

Now here's what else to watch today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

10:45 a.m. ET, Pelosi weekly presser.

1:30 p.m. ET, White House briefing.

7:00 p.m. ET, Biden, Harris reflect on one year.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYRIE IRVING, GUARD, BROOKLYN NETS: And I just don't want to bring science into this. And it just -- it always gets wrapped up. And I'm asking -- I'm asked questions all the time about what's my status. And I'm like, man, if you were in my position, it would be easy for someone to say, well, why don't you just get vaccinated, but you're not. And that's just the reality of it. And I've made my decision already and I'm standing on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's Brooklyn Nets star Kyrie Irving standing by his decision to not get vaccinated, even if it means he can't play home games in New York City.

Joining me now is ESPN host and executive producer of "Stephen A's World" on ESPN Plus, Stephen A. Smith.

Thank you for being with us.

Stephen, you say it's bad for the NBA if the Nets win, and that caused quite a stir. What do you mean?

STEPHEN A. SMITH, ESPN HOST: Oh, what I mean is they've got a part- time player that they're relying upon. And they went and they compromised themselves. They went against their own rules, their own stipulations. Once the mandate came down in New York that you had to be vaccinated otherwise you couldn't play at Madison Square Garden, at places like the Barclay Center or things of that nature, the Brooklyn Nets made it clear that they weren't interested in a part-time player. You're either in or you're out. That's the position that they took.

Then, while they were the number one seed in the Eastern Conference, because of the amount of work and load that he put on the shoulders of Kevin Durant, James Harden and others, they decided to go against their own policy and bring Kyrie Irving back.

Now, if fairness to them, they still have to pay him for the most part, not to mention the fact that there's a luxury tax that kicks in that we don't need to get into that they'd have to pay as well. So, they don't get a reprieve from any of that. But in the end, you had a policy and then you compromised yourself in pursuit of a championship.

My position is, is that, again, if you're missing games and you're a part-time player and somehow some way you still win a championship anyway, then that gives players a license to move forward in the future and say hey, the regular season isn't that much of a priority. As long as I make sure I'm ready for the playoffs, I'm good. And those 82 games during the regular seasons, that people are walking through the (INAUDIBLE) are paying their hard-earned money to come to watch people play, you know what, you're not there because you're not prioritizing that. And this would be the perfect excuse for something like that to continue. How in God's name is that possibly good for the game of basketball? I don't see that.

BERMAN: Fair to say Kyrie Irving won when it came to his stance on Covid, at least in terms of his battle with the NBA, yes?

SMITH: I don't think it's (INAUDIBLE) at all. First of all, they didn't win the championship yet. Secondly, and more importantly, we don't know if they're going to win the championship. Miami, Milwaukee, Golden State, Phoenix and other franchises might have something to say about that.

[08:45:04]

And, in the end, if you're not there to play alongside one another and the chemistry and the cohesiveness that you need in order to be successful is absent because you didn't play together, then I don't see how he wins.

Let me give you a scenario, John. What if --

BERMAN: But, Stephen -- Stephen, I didn't mean win -- I didn't mean win games.

SMITH: OK.

BERMAN: I meant win in his battle to not get vaccinated and get what he wants, which is to play.

SMITH: Right. That's exactly what I mean, because the point is, at the end of the day, you're playing road games, you're still not playing home games. And, on top of it all, you might not win the championship because of it. I don't view that as a win.

BERMAN: So, Stephen, I also want to say here, I say glibly, you're not just the president of the Hair Club for Men, you're also a member. You're not just someone commenting on Covid rules in the NBA. You're a Covid survivor now.

SMITH: Yes.

BERMAN: How has that affected your view of what the NBA is doing?

SMITH: Well, I think it's -- I think it's a -- it's buffered it to some degree. And I can't say what the NBA is going. I think the NBA has done a tremendous job in terms of people being tested and encouraging people to be vaccinated. Over 97 percent of the league is vaccinated according to the reports (INAUDIBLE) all of that. I'm not one those guys that -- do I think people should get vaccinated? Of course. Do I think they should get boosted? Of course that I -- of course, I do. But I don't say that as some individual with some political position. I say that as a human being that went to my doctors and my doctors advised me to do so.

I have not run across a medical professional that has advised against being vaccinated or boosted. And both long -- and before Covid ever came about, usually when all of us were feeling unhealthy, we'd go to our doctor, we'd hear their recommendations, we'd follow their -- their, you know, their suggestions. Plain and simple. Somehow, some way, that didn't seem to be the case with Covid. And I sincerely don't understand why that is the case. If medical professionals are advising you to do something, any time else (ph) we follow that. All of a sudden we're not doing that. That doesn't make any sense to me.

BERMAN: And how -- I mean how are you feeling today? This has been a hell of a battle for you. Do you feel lucky to be alive?

SMITH: I'm very lucky to be live. I mean, you know, when you have a 103-degree fever every night, you're sweating profusely, you've got a nasty cough that continues to get worse day after day after day, migraine headaches as well, you -- you just -- you know, you're deteriorating with each passing day and then you're in the hospital on New Year's Eve and they tell you that if you weren't vaccinated you probably would not be here. That's something that's devastating to hear. It's hellified (ph) scary.

I'm 54 years of age. I'm not an Adonis by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not in bad shape. I work out. I'm in the gym. I'm in decent shape. And for me to find myself for the first time in my life in a position where they told me that I probably wouldn't be here had it not been for a vaccine and that I'm lucky to be alive because both of my lungs were attacked, I had pneumonia in both lungs and I had my liver deteriorating as well. For me to find myself that that position was incredibly alarming and scary and I sit here today feeling like a very lucky man to be alive.

BERMAN: Look, first of all, you're a fine-looking human specimen. You should know that. You do know that. Second of all, I do know it's quite a thing to be told that this thing that separates you from death is a single shot. And I'm sure it makes you look at things differently.

SMITH: Yes.

BERMAN: Stephen A. Smith, I'm so glad that you're doing better. I wish you a continued recovery. Thank you so much for being with us this morning.

SMITH: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: Bob Saget's widow speaking out just moments ago following the comedian's sudden death. Her emotional words.

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[08:52:53]

HUNT: Welcome back.

Kelly Rizzo, the widow of beloved actor and comedian Bob Saget, speaking out this morning in her first TV interview since her husband's unexpected death.

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KELLY RIZZO, WIDOW OF BOB SAGET: Everything that I've been surrounded by has been a reminder of him and, you know, a memory of him. And so it's been very, very sat but also very beautiful. And I was telling people today that today is really almost the first

day that, you know, there's only so many tears, like, your body will let you cry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the last text?

RIZZO: Just, I love you so much and I can't wait to see you tomorrow. And I love you so much and can't wait to see you tomorrow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the last conversation, phone call?

RIZZO: He was just on his way home -- or back to his hotel and just was telling me what a wonderful show he had and how it was so amazing. And he was happy and just loving what he did. It made him so happy to just bring laughter to people.

He just wanted to spread love and laughter. And he did it so amazingly. And I'm just so proud of him because he truly brought people together. And, I mean, I -- he was just so wonderful. I was just so honored to be his wife and to be able to be a part of it and bring him any bit of happiness that I could because he deserved it so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you like to share that just we weren't privy to that you would like for us to know about Bob?

RIZZO: He had the biggest heart of anyone I've ever known. He put everybody first. He did everything for everybody. He -- if you had a problem, he was the first person that was going to take care of it and help you. And he was just the most caring and kind and thoughtful person. He was just so thoughtful. He just -- he did -- he was just the most absolutely wonderful husband that I ever could have dreamed of.

[08:55:02]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His fake family became his -- it was real family.

RIZZO: Every single one of them has been so kind and supportive. And they have been there every step of the way. And they've just assured me that they'll be there for me. And I know that would make Bob very happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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BERMAN: So, just in, a study that will get a lot of Americans talking today, maybe slurring today, depending on how they take it. According to the World Heart Federation, no amount of alcohol is good for your heart. None. The American Heart Association has long said moderation is key, but this study suggests that drinking any amount of alcohol increases your risk of cardiovascular problems, high blood pressure or stroke.

HUNT: So, I need the breakout results of this study for red wine, specifically, my drink of choice, because historically everyone has always said, hey, you know, a glass of red wine could be good for your heart. I guess they're reversing it.

BERMAN: Yes. I guess. I mean, to be clear, and I'm not endorsing any kind of behavior here, but I'm not drinking to get healthy.

HUNT: I (INAUDIBLE) -- yes.

BERMAN: That's not my main goal. I do other things to get healthy, but that's not what I'm after.

[09:00:00]

HUNT: I mean, is anyone really after -- really after that? I don't -- I can't imagine. I guess this means we shouldn't have mimosas tomorrow to cheer -- to toast Friday.

BERMAN: Or we shouldn't have just had them, more likely.