Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken Holds Press Conference after Meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov Concerning Continued Russian Military Buildup on Border with Ukraine; Singer of Meatloaf Passes Away; Giuliani Coordinated Plot to Install Fake Electors in 7 States; Grisham Tells Committee: Trump Had Secret Meetings Before Attack. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 21, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have worked in very close coordination with allies and partners to develop and make clear to Russia the consequences from renewed aggression against Ukraine. And that is an important component of deterring and dissuading Russia from engaging in that course.

At the same time, we have proceeded with providing Ukraine with significant defensive military assistance, in fact, in this year alone, more than at any time since 2014. That continues. Allies and partners are doing the same.

And finally, we've worked very closely with allies and partners to begin to plan for the reinforcement of NATO itself on its eastern flank in the event of further Russian aggression against Ukraine. All of these things, to make clear to Russia, the costs and consequences of its potential actions.

We think that's the best and most effective way to convince Russia not to engage in further aggression against Ukraine. Ukraine is a very valued partner of the United States and other countries in Europe as well. But our Article Five commitment extends to NATO allies, something that we are deeply committed to. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, it's not covered by the Article Five commitment, but a determination to do everything we can to defend it and to prevent or to deter aggression directed toward it.

And as I said, we will continue all of those efforts in the coming days and coming weeks, even as we test whether the path to a diplomatic resolution is possible. And I'm sorry, the first part of the question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dialogue between the presidents --

BLINKEN: Oh, yes, thank you. What we've agreed today is that we will share in writing next week our ideas, our response to concerns that Russia's raised, concerns that we have that we will share, again, in writing with Russia. We intend, based on the conversation today, based on that paper, as well as the paper we received from Russia, to have follow-on conversations after that, initially, at least, at the level of foreign ministers, and if it proves useful and productive for the two presidents to meet to talk, to engage, to try to carry things forward, I think we're fully prepared to do that. President Biden has met here in Geneva with President Putin. He's spoken to him on the phone or via videoconference on a number of occasions. And if we conclude and the Russians conclude that the best way to resolve things is through a further conversation between them, we're certainly prepared to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben Hall?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary, thank you. I was wondering if, as you keep coming back for more dialogue, more talks with the Russians, they continue to act. They continue to mass troops. The continue to destabilize Ukraine. Economically it's facing a number of hardships. You do acknowledge the harm they have already done just through their aggressive actions. And in turn, why would you not consider sanctions at this point. There's bipartisan support for them in the U.S. Ukraine have called for them. Why not?

And then a second question. You said time and time again that the pretext Russia gives to their aggression are false. There's no basis in fact. I'm curious if Secretary Lavrov sits opposite to you, looks you in the eye, and tells effectively, tells you lies to your face? And if so, why humor them with a response, why humor them with written response next week if that's the case?

BLINKEN: Thanks. First, again, we're not waiting to take action to counter Russia. As I said a moment ago, we've committed more security assistance to Ukraine in the past year, I think something like $650 million, than at any previous time going back to 2014, when Russia invaded Ukraine. We're continuing to provide that assistance. We have additional deliveries that are scheduled in the coming weeks.

As I noted as well, we've been engaged in extensive diplo around the world, rallying a allies and partners together in the face of Russian aggression against Ukraine. Yesterday, we announced actions against agents of Russian influence who were operating in Ukraine and who were seeking to destabilize the country.

[08:05:03]

And again, as I've said, we've made it clear to Russia that they will face swift, severe costs to their economy if they move forward with further invasion of Ukraine a well as the reinforcement of NATO along its eastern flank.

We engage in diplomacy and dialogue. That's my job. But at the same time, we are embarked on a path of defense and deterrence. These things are not mutually inconsistent. In fact, they reinforce each other. So even as we're talking, if the Russians are continuing to escalate and to buildup, we are continuing to strengthen everything we're doing in terms of the assistance we're providing to Ukraine for its defense, in terms of the work we're doing at NATO to prepare, as necessary, to further reinforce the alliance, and continuing to define and refine massive consequences for Russia, with our allies and partners, when it comes to financial, economic, and other sanctions. So we're doing both at the same time.

Now, when it comes to the conversations we have, I think the charitable interpretation would be that sometimes we and Russia have different interpretations of history. And I have to say today we certainly heard things that we strongly disagree with in terms of that history. But by and large, the conversation was not polemical. It was direct, business-like, and I think in that sense, useful. And it's important to test whether we can, again, resolve these differences through diplomacy and dialogue. That's clearly the preferable way to do it. It's clearly the responsible way to do it. But it's also up to Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll take a final question --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A very important news conference by U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken in Geneva following a 90-minute meeting with Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov. This comes as there are more than 100,000 Russian troops near or on the Ukrainian border and very real fears of invasion. We heard very carefully chosen words from Blinken. He said he leaves this meeting with a clear path forward. The U.S. and Russians have a better understanding of each other's positions he says, but no breakthroughs. And he made sure that say that any crossing of the border by Russian troops would constitute a renewed invasion and be met with swift and severe and a very united response.

I want to bring in CNN's Clarissa Ward who is live in Kiev, our chief international correspondent Nic Robertson, international diplomacy editor in Moscow. Clarissa, what did you hear there?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I heard is that diplomacy lives to see another day. There is no indication that either side is backing down from their stances, but he did say they see, quote, a clearer path forward, talking about the U.S. responding in writing, as per the Russian request, to must have their demands, also raising concerns of their own, and saying that beyond that, there will be more consultations or conversations.

He even just answering one reporter's question, did not close out the possibility of another meeting potentially, virtual or in person, between President Putin and President Biden.

Clearly, a lot can still go wrong, and it's easy to be derailed from this path, but I think the primary takeaway is at least a minor escalation of relief that at least an invasion does not appear to be imminent in the coming days, depending on how these talks go and how those written statements are received by the Russians. The threat still exists, but as Blinken said, there is a clearer path forward, and it will be very interesting to see what kind of consensus, if any, the two sides can find, because there is still a chasm between them on these issues of Ukraine's sovereignty, of the ability of Ukraine to continue to press or push for NATO membership one day, and it's difficult to see how these pivotal issues can potentially be resolved. But at least some inkling of hope that diplomacy has not yet reached a dead end, John.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Nick, what was your take-away?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think for the from the Russian perspective, Sergey Lavrov is able to come back to the Kremlin and say in a week's time or next week some time you are going to get the written response from the United States that you wanted. I think that's a tick in a box for the Russian side in this.

[08:10:01]

However, and Sergey Lavrov knows this, and Secretary Blinken laid it out very clearly, the written response is not going to be for Russia the right response. It's not going to turn over essentially the sovereignty of Ukraine can be something that Russia can have an influence over, that NATO is not, the United States is not going to deny Ukraine membership of NATO, neither is NATO going to be in the position, and the United States not in the position either, of saying yes, we'll roll back to 1997 levels and deployments of NATO.

So clearly the Russians on the one hand have got something. On the other hand, what they've got is going to be a definitive version of no that they know is coming. So you have to look at this and wonder, is Russia playing down the clock? They have their forces built on the border of Ukraine. They're amassing forces for military training exercises in Belarus, potentially another 100,000 troops there. They put in surface-to-air missiles systems there for military training. That's what they say, they have no intention of in invading Ukraine.

So it is still all in play potentially diplomatically, but also that military buildup is still going on at the moment. And I think that the fundamental question comes to this point, and it's hard to see how Russia can walk away with this. But is it willing to put aside everything that it said about Ukraine and membership of NATO and all of that about NATO and just accept what, for them, would be one point, and a big climbdown, on arms control and troop deployments and reciprocity? That's still out there. That's the area where there is still mutual convergence. It seems hard to see how they're going to accept that alone.

BERMAN: Put it in writing in terms of NATO, could be a trap. But in the mean meantime, the world hangs its hope on this idea of a better understanding for now between the United States and Russia. Much more on this coming up. Clarissa and Nic, thank you both very much.

All right, big news this morning in terms of the legal predicament for the former president. We're going to be joined by his former communications director amid reports that Trump held secret meetings in the White House ahead of last year's attack on the U.S. Capitol.

HUNT: And the very sad breaking news this morning. He was a bat out of hell who would do anything for love, except he wouldn't do that. Today the world says goodbye to the legendary Meatloaf.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:21]

HUNT: Welcome back.

Donald Trump in the middle of a very rough week. The former president's legal jeopardy intensifying as a D.A. in Georgia is asking for a special grand jury to investigate Trump's effort to overturn that state's election results. Like when he asked officials to find votes.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HUNT: It is, of course, just one of the chapters in this attempted coup. Trump and his allies lied over and over again, claiming massive voter fraud. They lied claiming he won states that he didn't win. Allies pressured the Justice Department to investigate those lies. They urged state legislatures to overturn results in states that Biden actually won. He and others pressured states not to certify election results. Allies collected illegitimate Republican electors in at least seven states.

BERMAN: He and others pressured then Vice President Mike Pence to overturn results on January 6. Conservative lawyers created actual strategy memos to overturn the election. They urged supporters to fight like hell and march to the Capitol, which preceded the siege. They promoted the lie of the Stop the Steal campaign. They delayed the formal transition process at the GSA, they even discussed having federal agents seize voting machines.

And we have new reporting this morning about Trump campaign officials overseeing a plot to install fake electors in seven states that Donald Trump lost. And the operation was spearheaded by Rudy Giuliani.

I want to bring in CNN anchor and senior Washington correspondent Pamela Brown.

Pamela, what have you learned here?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, it's just incredible to learn about more evidence, as you put it, of this plot to over overturn the 2020 election, and that is the fact that Trump campaign officials, we've learned, along with Rudy Giuliani, who was really spearheading this effort were intrinsically involved in putting forth fake electors. This was back in December of 2020. This is according to three sources speaking to myself, as well as my colleagues Marshal Cohen, Zach Cohen and Dan Merica, and it was a key part of their plan in this alternate reality to pretend like Trump won the election and goal here was for the Vice President Mike Pence at the time to accept these fake Trump electors over the legitimate Biden electors on January 6.

We know that didn't happen. But leading up to that point, we learned through these sources that's there were multiple calls between Trump campaign officials and state officials and they were really involved in the minutia, picking out rooms and statehouses for these fake electors to meet on December 14th, finding supporters that would be the fake electors, sending them these fake certificates to the National Archives. I mean, they were really involved in incrementally step by step in this whole plot to overturn the 2020 election.

In fact, one of those fake electors boasted about how the Trump campaign led this operation. Take a look take a listen to this audio that's a little difficult to make out.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MESHAWN MADDOCK, CO-CHAIR, MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY: We fought for investigations into every part of the elections we could. He fought for a team of people to come and testify in front of the committee. We fought to seat electors. The Trump campaign asked us to do that. Under a lot of scrutiny for that day.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: So, there you heard. That was one of the 16 fake electors there in Michigan, basically saying that yeah, we were trying to fight to get -- to replace Biden's electors and this was all led by the Trump campaign.

[08:20:08]

Now, I do want to point out, I spoke to a source close to the former vice president, who said there was concern by Pence and his inner circle that this scenario could play out. They didn't necessarily know all the specifics and that this was going on on such a detailed level. But they were concerned that there would be an alternate slate of electors being present presented.

And so, that is why, as you recall, John, Mike Pence released this really detailed statement before he certified the election, was part of that role of January 6, laying out what he can accept and that the certificate the electors has to be authorized by the authority of the state. That was intentional because of concern of something like this playing out.

BERMAN: Yeah. And now there will be questions in a couple of states if this constitutes some activity of fraud, which I know will be investigated.

Pamela Brown, thank you verymuch and of course, we're all going to be watching your show this weekend.

BROWN: Thank you.

HUNT: And we're learning new details about what Donald Trump was doing ahead of the January 6 insurrection. According to former White House press secretary and communications director Stephanie Grisham, she told the January 6 committee that Trump held off-the-books meetings in the White House residence in the days before the insurrection. We should say that that was part a report in "The Guardian". And joining me now is Stephanie Grisham. She also served as chief of staff to former First Lady Melania Trump.

Stephanie, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for being back here with us. And I want to start with this "Guardian" headline that talks about what you told the January 6 committee. I know you can't specifically speak to that, but let's talk about the reporting that's now public.

Secret meetings held in the White House ahead of January 6th.

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes. So I didn't participate in "The Guardian" reporting at all, but it was pretty accurate.

I would say that in my role as chief of staff, just kind for background for you guys for your viewers, I was always told about any meetings that were going to happen in the residence mostly so I could give Mrs. Trump a heads-up that there would be people in her home.

Now, when Mark Meadows started that information flow to me stopped, but other people, such as the usher in the residence, would let me know that there is going to be meetings up there. I didn't always know who the participants were, and sometimes even then I wouldn't be told about meetings and then Mrs. Trump would let me know that a meeting happened because maybe she wasn't happy that again, people were in her home without her knowledge.

So, "The Guardian" reporting is a accurate. There were meetings taking place up there. I don't have visibility into what was discussed and all of the people who were there, but I can say that you know, Mark Meadows would have been there, as well as the legal team that was working on all of the bonkers little plans that you were actually talking about right before this segment with Pam.

HUNT: So who else would know about these meetings? Who would know who was in these meetings, aside from the participants themselves?

GRISHAM: Well, see, that was the beauty and also the downfall of having meetings in the residence like that. And the president -- the former president did that often. He did that quite a bit because there was a lot of paranoia about leaks in the White House and so he would have people up to the residence.

So as you just asked, it would have been the people who were there, people in the usher's office, who may have waved them in, which means getting their security information in so that the Secret Service could elite them in. Certainly Mark Meadows, chief of staff and maybe a body man, depending on what body man the president was had on duty that day.

HUNT: So --

GRISHAM: Very --

HUNT: I'm sorry, go ahead. GRISHAM: Very, very small circle is all I was going to say and of

course, Mrs. Trump, who was up in the residence, too, too. She may or may not have been sitting in. She was known for popping into meetings. So she probably knew what was going on as well.

HUNT: The committee has also ob obtained documents, and there are suggestions that perhaps some of this information could be in White House documents that perhaps have already been turned over to the committee. Would these secret meetings be part of that, and would the president's potential plans to go with rioters down from the White House to the Capitol after his speech be part of those documents?

GRISHAM: So, you know, as I talked to the committee, I gave them kind a roadmap of how things work, and I don't want to get too in the weeds because it's a lot and it could be very boring. But yeah, there could be -- you know, there is something called a line-by-line and that documents every movement the president is going to make.

So potentially it could say you know, the president will conclude his remarks and then it could say he may walk down, you know, to the Capitol with people. It may say that. It may not.

So, there is definitely documents that could kind of have all the different options of what he may or may not do. I mean, that's what the advanced teams are supposed to do is anticipate everything and let Secret Service know. I would say those documents hope hopefully would have a little bit of help.

[08:25:03]

And then, any kind of logs of who was waived in that day, who was waived up to the residence. That should be somewhere.

So, I was really happy to see that the Supreme Court is allowing so many documents to be turned over. I'm hoping that some of those are in there and this can be settled once and for all.

HUNT: So, speaking of people who may have been waved up to the residence that day, the committee sent a letter to Ivanka Trump, asking for her voluntary cooperation. Do you think they're going to get and what further steps me they need to take to get information from President Trump's -- former President Trump's daughter?

GRISHAM: You know, I can't telegraph what Ivanka is going to do. I hope that she will go. You know, to me, if there is nothing to hide, I'm not sure why any of these people won't just go and talk proudly about what happened that day, right? If they've got nothing to hide and nothing bad happened, and just go sit down, tell truth and leave.

I don't think that probably she will. Just like so many others have refused to do it. I do think transparency here would make things so much easier and the fact that they're not doing it just makes you think what do you have to hide?

The statements she put out was a little bit murky in terms of, you know, what she said that day, but not saying she would, you know, go and testify.

I think this is just another example, though, of how everyone around him was talking to one another or to people outside, such as Sean Hannity, knowing that what was going on was wrong and yet nobody would just speak up enough to make it stop and then nobody will speak up now to say, hey, this was wrong. We were telling him this is wrong.

They are all still, you know, circling the wagons around him and it's very much the emperor has no clothing.

HUNT: And what was Ivanka Trump's role leading up to the speech that the president gave on January 6?

GRISHAM: I don't have any visibility into that. I can say that Ivanka was oftentimes the voice of reason. I can say that staff often and myself included, when I was press secretary, would go to her if we were in a sticky basis and say can you please come help talk to your father about this? And she would be successful.

So it doesn't surprise me at all when I saw the testimony from Keith Kellogg saying that they kept asking her to go in and be the voice of reason. I don't know that day what exactly happened with her, what her role was, but I believe she probably went in there and tried to tell him to stop.

And fact that he didn't listen just shows how passionate he was about the people who were in his mind, fighting for him at the Capitol.

HUNT: Let's talk a little bit big picture about all the legal troubles that the Trump family has faced and I know for the former president, his family one place where he gets particularly agitated often.

What's your view of the all various subpoenas and information we've seen come out targeting the former president's children in the various investigations?

GRISHAM: Well, I'm glad to see it happening. Again, I think that transparency right now is key in so many -- in so many ways. I think that certainly in Georgia, in the absence of cooperating witnesses, I'm glad that she's trying to convene a grand jury.

I hope that this will show the American people kind of who we're dealing with in terms of this family. As somebody who was a true, true believer in the Trump family and then seeing things with my own eyes, I'm hopeful -- is all I can say -- I'm hopeful with all of these legal things that are happening this week that the American people will just see who they are.

HUNT: All right. Stephanie Grisham, former White House communications director, thank you very much for spending some time with us this morning.

GRISHAM: Thank you.

HUNT: Coming up next, New Orleans on high alert after a string of shootings on the highway. Are they connected?

BERMAN: And sad news this morning. That voice all in always, Meat Loaf. The legend has passed away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]