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Commentator Calls Pandemic Policy A "Moral Crime"; China Marks Two Years Since Wuhan Lockdown Days Ahead Of The Olympics; Adele Facetimes Fans Who Went To Vegas For Postponed Shows. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 24, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

STEPHANIE WINSTON WOLKOFF, FORMER ADVISER TO MELANIA TRUMP (via Skype): -- that are always around in the residence, and several times -- or many times, Ivanka and Jared were the last ones lingering. But there was always a contingency of people coming in and out. And that was their way of having their meetings without having to record who was there.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It will be interesting to see if there are any records that do come to light for the January 6 Committee on that front.

Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, thanks so much for being with us.

WOLKOFF: Thank you so much for having me.

BERMAN: So, these comments from a former "New York Times" journalist setting off a firestorm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARI WEISS, AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST, HOST, "HONESTLY WITH BARI WEISS" PODCAST: I'm done with COVID.

BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": Oh.

WEISS: It's a pandemic of bureaucracy. It's not -- it's not real anymore.

MAHER: Well, let's --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Our next guest tells her to grow up.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Just announced, new testing guidelines for Olympic athletes in Beijing. Why it's now easier to test negative.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:35:05]

KEILAR: Podcast host and former "New York Times" journalist Bari Weiss is receiving mixed reactions to her comments on this weekend's episode of "Real Time with Bill Maher" where she blasted the prolonged response to the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEISS: I'm done with COVID.

MAHER: Oh, yes.

WEISS: I'm done. It's like I went so hard on COVID. I --

MAHER: Yes, I remember.

WEISS: -- sprayed the Pringles cans that I bought at the grocery store, stripped my clothes off because I thought COVID would be on my clothes. Like, I did it all.

And then we were told you get the vaccine. You get the vaccine and you get back to normal. And we haven't gotten back to normal and it's ridiculous at this point.

This is going to be remembered by the younger generation as a catastrophic moral crime. The city of Flint, Michigan, which is 80 percent, I think, minority students, has just announced indefinite virtual schooling.

In the past two years, we have seen among young girls, a 51 percent increase in self-harm. People are killing themselves. They are anxious. They are depressed. They are lonely.

That is why we need to end it. More than any inconvenience that it's been to the rest of us, I think --

(Applause)

MAHER: (INAUDIBLE).

WEISS: It's a pandemic. It's like, at this point, it's a pandemic of bureaucracy. It's a pandemic of bureaucracy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Let's --

WEISS: It's not -- it's not real anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now to talk about that, we have CNN medical analyst and professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. And also, Dr. Lucy McBride. She is a practicing internist as well as an author of a popular COVID-19 newsletter. She's also a contributor to "The Atlantic."

OK, Dr. Reiner, to you first because you did call out Bari Weiss on Twitter. You told her to grow up. Tell us why you had such a negative reaction to her comments.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): Well, first of all, her behavior was childish, which is why I told her to grow up. She ranted about how inconvenienced she's been by this pandemic and how it's not real anymore.

Well, I'll tell you that for the 10,000 Americans who died last week and for their families -- yes, it was damn real. And for the people who struggle to keep them alive, and for the thousands and thousands of healthcare workers who have been doing this nonstop for two years.

Her behavior was childish and selfish.

Look, this pandemic has gone on in large part because the virus has mutated and 25 percent of the American population -- of the adults in this country -- have decided not to get vaccinated. Now, she may be frustrated that life isn't moral but we are in the hottest point of this pandemic in the last two years.

Now, thankfully, in places like New York and D.C., and Boston, the virus is starting to recede. But we've lost 860,000 people and I'm afraid that by St. Patrick's Day we're going to be staring at a million people dead in this country.

And to hear somebody who has such a large platform, like Ms. Weiss, sort of say she's done with it -- it's not real -- it's a pandemic of bureaucracy. No, this is a very real pandemic and a million people in this country will have paid the price.

KEILAR: Dr. McBride, what do you say?

DR. LUCY MCBRIDE, PRACTICING INTERNIST, AUTHOR, COVID-19 NEWSLETTER (via Skype): I agree with Dr. Reiner that we are not done. COVID is not done with us whatsoever. Hospitals and healthcare workers in various parts of the country are overwhelmed.

What I think she's bringing up though is an important point at this moment of the pandemic. We have widespread availability of vaccines that take the fangs away from the coronavirus and turn it into a more manageable disease. And we are watching more widespread population immunity happen.

And it's time at this crucial, pivotal moment to better calibrate harms. To weigh the harms of the virus itself against the harms of the restrictions, particularly in populations where the threat of the virus itself is less risky.

For example, there's nowhere more important for this discussion than in schools. Children, in general -- of course, children can get very sick and tragically, some have died from COVID-19. But in general, children face the lowest risk for poor outcomes from COVID-19 -- yet, are put in schools with some of the most draconian restrictions.

So it's time to appropriately balance the harms and to think broadly about the definition of health as more than the mere absence of COVID- 19. Kids are suffering from learning loss, social isolation, anxiety, depression. Teenage children -- teenagers and adolescents are -- even if unvaccinated are at lower risk than vaccinated adults.

[07:40:08]

We are not done with the pandemic. The pandemic is not done with us. But again, it's time to think broadly about what vulnerability means. It's not simply about a virus; it is about other social, emotional, economic, occupational harms that need to be weighed into the decision-making rubric in policymakers.

KEILAR: Dr. Reiner?

REINER: Look, I agree with Dr. McBride that we have to start thinking about the end game. But we are neck-deep in the water right now and part of our country has just stopped bailing it out. We have to continue to understand that this virus isn't going to go away until we can vaccinate more people in this country.

I actually don't think we've had enough bureaucracy. For months, I've been urging the administration to impose an air travel mandate -- a vaccine mandate for air travel.

But I agree with -- I agree with Dr. McBride that for well-vaccinated people the risk is quite low. The problem is so many people in this country remain unvaccinated that the deaths will continue to accrue until the virus burns through -- burns through everyone, and that's a terrible price to pay.

As for kids, our kids are our most vulnerable right now. Now thankfully, their risk of a serious adverse event is quite low but we've lost almost 1,000 children to this virus. Last year, I think there was one childhood fatality to influenza. In an average year, there's maybe 100. So this virus is not benign for children.

And children -- most children live in multigenerational homes where they can bring the virus home to more vulnerable people.

And in terms of draconian measures, all we're asking kids to do in school is to wear a mask. It doesn't seem to be -- to be so draconian.

I agree kids should be in school, not learning remotely. But in some places, there are so many teachers who are out you can't keep kids in school.

Bari Weiss referred to Flint, Michigan. Genesee County, where Flint sits, has a 40 percent positivity rate -- 1,000 people a day testing positive in that county for COVID. And it's difficult to keep the schools open when so many people are getting sick.

I agree kids need to -- need to stay in school but we need to live in the real world, not the world that we want. KEILAR: I see you nodding, Dr. McBride.

MCBRIDE: So, I could not agree more that we need to really face reality. And I think one of the problems we've seen throughout the entire pandemic is the lack of nuance when we communicate about risk.

I see patients every day in my office. When I'm talking to a teenager who has had three shots of the vaccine, who is depressed and isolated, and some of them are abusing substances, and they have been robbed of their college experience, for example, and are doing college on Zoom, that's a different conversation about risk than with my immunocompromised patients who are at particularly high risk from COVID-19. Those patients need to be in an N95 mask during a surge, absolutely, and we talk about those particular risks.

But by and large, we have -- we have -- we have taken very strict rules and imparted them on children to -- and we have burdened them with the role of protecting adults. I 100 percent agree the way to win the war is to vaccinate unvaccinated people and we absolutely need to do that.

But in the meantime, we can also be more nuanced in our guidance and appropriately balanced. Whereas, kids who are from underserved and disadvantaged communities are disproportionately affected by COVID, they are also disproportionately affected by the absence of normalcy in school.

Let's get back to normal and not just the old normal. Let's get to -- back to a better normal and marry our mental and physical health and address social-emotional health and the broad human needs we have.

Public health has never been about a single virus. When I treat a patient it's not about preventing a single pathogen. It's about looking broadly at our human needs. It's about balancing risk. It's about looking at the facts and the data and framing the data so that we can live longer but live better as well.

[07:45:09]

KEILAR: Yes. Look, a lot of questions brought up by this pandemic that span beyond COVID, for sure.

Dr. McBride, Dr. Reiner, thank you so much to both of you.

And I've got to say I cannot wait for vaccinations for everybody. They're not there yet. I'm the mother of a 3-year-old and I'm telling you, I'm talking to so many parents and we're waiting -- we're waiting. It feels like it's taking forever and we'll be talking about that here.

REINER: Two months. Two more months.

KEILAR: If we can hang on that long. My kids couldn't. I got them sick.

REINER: I know. KEILAR: I will tell you, such a -- very upsetting.

You guys, thank you so much.

An NBA legend pushing delusional, outright bizarre conspiracies about COVID and the vaccine. Why his alma mater just yanked his season tickets.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADELE, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Singing "Easy On Me."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Adele postpones the start to her Vegas residency -- but, man, does she make it up to a few fans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADELE: Singing "Easy On Me."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:50:23]

BERMAN: What an anniversary. Two years if you can believe it -- two years since the first drastic coronavirus lockdown imposed on the Chinese city of Wuhan.

CNN's David Culver was there then doing remarkable reporting, and he's doing remarkable reporting now, less than two weeks until the Winter Olympics. Just so interesting, the evolution here, David.

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is, John, and you say two years if you can believe it. I certainly can believe it. In many ways, though, it feels like it was a lot longer ago. Yet, these strict measures that are in place here -- you talk about preparation for the Olympics, we go back to that zero-COVID policy. And I think what you have to remember is it started in one major event and that was the Wuhan lockdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER (voice-over): Snap lockdowns, mass testing, and tracking our every move. Two years ago this would have seemed like a sci-fi movie. While China's methods to combat the outbreak have evolved, the containment measures remain just as fierce and relentless, and exhausting.

CULVER (on camera): Much of what is happening today in China is rooted in the actions sparked on January 23rd, 2020. The thought of that 3:00 a.m. phone call still makes my adrenaline rush. Wuhan is going on lockdown. You've got to get out.

CULVER (voice-over): My team and I scrambled to get to the train station. We weren't the only ones. Crowds already building.

The world is about to learn what China's version of a lockdown looked like. A city of more than 11 million sealed off, people confined to their homes. The streets emptied. A metropolis seemingly frozen in time.

Hospitals flooded with panicked patients. A military-like mobilization followed. In days, crews built field hospitals and quarantine centers to isolate the infected. The lockdown lasted 76 days. Looking back, this was the start of China's zero-COVID policy.

After leaving Wuhan and returning to Beijing, my team and I continued our reporting isolated in a hotel room --

CULVER (on camera): Mic check, one, two, three.

CULVER (voice-over): -- for 14 days -- an early sampling of what's now so familiar -- quarantine and work from home.

CULVER (on camera): I can even do it in slippers.

CULVER (voice-over): Today in China, 21 days is mostly standard quarantine for international arrivals, with some cities requiring additional time of isolation on top of that. That's if you're able to even get into the country.

CULVER (on camera): Was it an overreaction?

CULVER (voice-over): In February 2020, Chinese officials said the U.S. was overreacting when it cut off flights from China.

CULVER (on camera): Any China-bound flight from the U.S. will not go forward.

CULVER (voice-over): But today, it's China keeping others out. Its borders are virtually closed off. They view the virus as an imported threat. Their efforts to contain it matched only by the propaganda efforts to control the narrative of how it started.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're following breaking news.

CULVER (voice-over): By spring 2020, the U.S. and the rest of the world were battling their own outbreaks and China returning to near- normal. Crowds began flocking to popular spots again. And in April, Wuhan came out of lockdown -- the desolate streets filling up once again. A packed summer pool party shocked the then-socially distanced world.

Today, the city's economy recovering and people no longer fearful of leaving their homes.

Though, the emotional wounds of residents who lost loved ones early on -- those may never heal. Health surveillance, or contact tracing, has played a major role in

China's COVID control. Its power unchecked in cyberspace, just like in the real world. The government keeps tabs on everyone using an increasingly sophisticated digital surveillance infrastructure, flagging those who might get too close to a confirmed case.

They also set up physical checkpoints to screen people. You pass through them to enter parks, malls, restaurants, stores, the airport -- a tightened control that we thought was only temporary.

Even as China rolled out its own vaccines, throughout 2021, the strict measures remained and the public's fear of the virus intensified, feigned by propaganda. Travel within China eased a bit but every few weeks there was a jolting reminder -- a cluster of new cases prompting new lockdowns and mass testing of tens of millions -- entire city populations.

As the Olympics near, sporadic outbreaks continue to surface. Fresh images reminiscent of Wuhan's lockdown, though not lasting nearly as long, leading to more unease, from neighborhoods sealed off to workers sleeping in their offices, to shoppers trapped in stores. Sudden lockdowns and quarantine have dissuaded many here from traveling.

[07:55:02]

Two years on, COVID policies first slapped on Wuhan now replicated nationwide.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: But John, here is why I say that while these policies are still very strict, they are seeing an evolution of sorts. Just today, folks here are starting to learn about a new restriction that's in place. I want you to imagine this.

You go to a Duane Reade or Walgreens or CVS. You go in there -- you go to get some cough drops or maybe some ibuprofen. Traditionally, they would write down at the start of the pandemic who was buying that. Now, it's all connected to your phone.

They're able then to, through a system, flag you if you've just bought any of these things to potentially treat symptoms of COVID-19. And they will turn your QR code, which is your entry into everything of public life here, to a disengage color -- something that doesn't allow you access.

And basically, they just freeze you in your tracks. That's how they're able to do it until you get a COVID-19 test and then you submit that to your community, and then they'll reengage your QR.

That's what's now in place a week and a half ahead of the Olympics, John.

BERMAN: Wow, wow.

David, look, two years ago you opened the door to the world so the world could see what was happening and you are still doing it. Thank you so much for your reporting.

President Biden raising the pressure on Vladimir Putin as Russia inches closer to invading Ukraine. New details of some of the options the U.S. president is considering.

KEILAR: And Adele facetiming some disappointed fans who showed up for her canceled show in Las Vegas. Did they go easy on her? I had to -- you know it. We'll ask.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADELE: Singing "Easy On Me."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

KEILAR: Adele breaking hearts by postponing her Las Vegas residency less than 24 hours before the opening night because of a COVID outbreak within her team. But for fans who were already in Vegas or on their way, she tried to make it up to them when she called to say hello, it's me.

Joining us now is James Mason Fox who traveled to Vegas for the concert. He actually got to personally speak to Adele.

OK, let's start at the beginning, James. You were already on your way and then you find out this concert's off. Tell us about it.

JAMES MASON FOX, FAN WHO RECEIVED VIDEO CALL FROM ADELE (via Webex by Cisco): Yes. So I'm sitting on the plane and I mean, as I feel it like start to shake, I get the notification because, of course, I have Adele's notifications turned on. And I watch it and I'm just devastated. I was like what?

So then it's racing through my mind. I'm like I should just get off because this is the only reason I'm going. So I try to get off the plane but then I realize I have a checked bag and the doors are shut. So I just kind of come to the conclusion that I'm stuck. I was trying to say hello from the other side but it didn't work.

BERMAN: But then what happens?

FOX: So, I just -- I go have fun in Vegas my first night there -- it's fine. I wake up and as one does, I make a TikTok rant. And it was kindhearted but I was just confused. I wanted a little bit more information. You know, it was a little bit vague.

And I fall asleep. I take a nap.