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New Day
Gonzaga Suspends Stockton; Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is Interviewed about John Stockton. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired January 24, 2022 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's terrifying, but it didn't happen and never did happen there. So, again, the exact legal culpability there would have -- be very much in question.
You say you want DOJ to investigate that and, I imagine, also this alternate slate of electors saying investigate what exactly?
DAVID H. LAUFMAN, FORMER CHIEF OF DOJ COUNTERINTELLIGENCE SECTION: Well, we have a fact pattern now where people around the president of the United States were seeking to bring to bear the United States military forces to seize voting machines. I mean that's a fact pattern I used to see as a young CIA analyst reading intel about foreign countries. It has to be investigated.
The House select committee is taking a look at this. But, ultimately, all they're going to do is to write a report and potentially to make refers to the Department of Justice. I've cited some of the statutes the Department of Justice could use as a predicate to undertake a criminal investigation. But that's what investigations are for.
BERMAN: And you say the DOJ and this committee should be investigating this.
Newt -- I want to play something that Newt Gingrich said on TV, but I want to preface this just so our viewers don't think I'm going to say, you know, here's Newt Gingrich, react to that. What Gingrich says is absurd, OK? Patently absurd. I just want people to know that before they hear it.
Here's Gingrich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: These are people who are literally just running over the law, pursuing innocent people, causing them to spend thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees for no justification, and it's basically a lynch mob.
I think when you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down and the wolves are going to find out that they're now sheep and they're the ones who are, in fact, going to, I think, face a real risk of jail for the kind of laws they're breaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, Gingrich says the January 6th committee itself is going to be thrown in jail if the Republicans take over. There's no legal basis to that. It's something much more nefarious.
LAUFMAN: I mean what kind of regime, what kind of dystopian United States of America is the former speaker of the House talking about? It's just -- it's just lunacy. He's talking about some kind of political retribution using the criminal justice system to punish people carrying out the rule of law as they should today. I mean that's exactly a preview of what we can expect if Trump and his minions ever hold power again.
BERMAN: And, look, everyone should think about that every time they hear Newt Gingrich ever make another argument about anything.
David Laufman, thank you for being with us this morning.
LAUFMAN: Thanks for having me.
BERMAN: Here is what else to watch today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ON SCREEN TEXT: 1:30 p.m. ET, White House briefing.
2:30 p.m. ET, State Department briefing.
3:00 p.m. ET, Harris speaks in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: We have breaking news out of Germany. Getting word of a huge police operation after a shooting at a university. Stand by for breaking details.
Plus, an NBA legend getting the boot from his alma mater's games, but then John Stockton goes down a delusional rabbit hole on vaccines. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar joins us live.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And the other TV premier that Peloton probably hopes you missed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm doing a Peloton class with (INAUDIBLE) so I don't have a heart attack keeping up with my girlfriend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:37:52]
KEILAR: Time now for "Five Things to Know for Your New Day."
The State Department is reducing staff levels at the U.S. embassy in Kiev as President Biden considering sending several thousand U.S. troops, along with warships and aircraft, to NATO allies in the Baltic states and in eastern Europe amid growing fears of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
BERMAN: All right, breaking just moments ago, a gunman is dead after a shooting inside an auditorium at the University of Heidelberg in southwest Germany. Police say the lone perpetrator, described only as a young man, injured several people using a long gun. The motive has not yet been determined.
KEILAR: Pope Benedict XVI admits that he was present at a 1980 meeting when an abuser priest was discussed. He blamed his earlier denial on an editing error. Last week the results of an investigation into Catholic clergy abuse in Munich, where Benedict was archbishop from 1977 to 1982 showed that he was there for the meeting.
BERMAN: Today, the federal trial begins for three former Minneapolis police officers who were on the scene of George Floyd's deadly arrest. They are accused of violating Floyd's civil rights by failing to provide medical care as Derek Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes.
KEILAR: First it was Mr. Big and now Wags. "Billions" character Mike Wagner suffering a non-fatal, though, heart attack, and this is key, on a Peloton bike in the series season six premier, giving Peloton yet another poor portrayal in a TV show. Peloton says it did not agree for its brand and intellectual property to be used on the show.
BERMAN: Those are the "Five Things to Know for Your New Day." More on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Go to cnn.com/5things. You can also find it wherever you get your podcasts.
Gonzaga University boxing out NBA legend John Stockton from attending any more home games over his refusal to wear a mask. But that's just a part of it, the beginning of it, when it gets to John Stockton. The great Kareem Abdul-Jabbar will join us to react.
[08:40:01]
KEILAR: And the U.K.'s Boris Johnson ends all Covid restrictions, saying that it is time to start treating Covid like the flu. Will the U.S. take note? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: NBA legend John Stockton can no longer attend basketball games at Gonzaga University. His alma mater suspending his season tickets after he refused to comply with the school's mask mandate. This comes after the Hall of Fame point guard has repeatedly spread misinformation about the pandemic and vaccines.
CNN's Natasha Chen has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Hall of Fame NBA player John Stockton may be the most recognizable basketball player to come out of Gonzaga University in eastern Washington, but the nation's top- ranked college men's team is now booting its own hero from its home court.
[08:45:10]
The 59-year-old Stockton, who went on to become the NBA all-time leader in assists and steals, told "The Spokesman-Review" that the school said it was going to have to, quote, ask me to wear a mask or they were going to suspend my tickets.
JOHN STOCKTON, HALL OF FAME BASKETBALL PLAYER: Gonzaga, it's come a long ways. The -- I'm very proud to be a Zag.
CHEN: As omicron surged over the holidays, Gonzaga, like some other schools across the country, stopped serving food and drinks at games in the new year.
ANDY KATZ, REPORTER, TURNER SPORTS & NCAA.COM: So there was no excuse to drop your mask.
CHEN: Turner Sports and ncaa.com reporter Andy Katz said that's when an unmasked Stockton stood out, refusing to put a mask on when un usher asked him to.
KATZ: Chris Standiford, who is a new athletic director at Gonzaga within this last year, spoke with John Stockton and basically laid it out for him. This is our policy. You can either mask or not attend.
CHEN: Gonzaga University also requires people 12 and up to show proof of vaccination or a negative Covid test to enter athletic events. And the school follows Washington state's mask mandate, a requirement for virtually all attendees five and up regardless of vaccination status.
The university gave CNN this statement saying it, continues to work hard to implement health and safety protocols and would not speak to specific actions taken with any specific individuals.
CNN has tried to reach Stockton but has not heard back.
This standoff on masks follows Stockton's appearance last year in a nine-part conspiracy theory driven video series. STOCKTON: This is a virus cheating us of these opportunities. It's the
guys making decisions saying, no, no, we're too scared. We're going to shut everything down. Sit in your house and be careful. My kids and my grandkids hearing these things and accepting them as true when I know by my significant amount of research that it isn't.
CHEN: He told "The Spokesman-Review" in an interview published on Saturday that he believes, quote, it's over 100 professional athletes dead, professional athletes, the prime of their life, dropping dead that are vaccinated, right on the pitch, right on the field, right on the court.
RICHARD CARPIANO, PUBLIC HEALTH SCIENTIST AND SOCIOLOGIST, UC RIVERSIDE: If something like that were to happen, we would know -- we would know of that already.
CHEN: Professor Richard Carpiano says effective measures are in place to watch for potential adverse reactions to vaccines. The CDC requires health care workers to report deaths and other adverse effects following vaccination, even if it's not clear whether the vaccine was the cause. The CDC says reports of serious issues are rare. So Stockton's claim?
CARPIANO: It's really quite dangerous. And it puts people at harm. It puts his fans at harm. And it's going to get people sick and, unfortunately, someone is going to die, too.
CHEN: Pandemic politics are playing out right now, especially in indoor sports like basketball where Covid restrictions are stricter than in outdoor arenas. And the NCAA does not regulate policies for regular season games, leaving schools to play Covid protocol referee.
KATZ: It's not just by conference. It is by state. This has been occurring across the country basically in a blue-red-purple divide.
CHEN: A divide even as the pandemic marches on.
CARPIANO: This is the boat that we're all in together, including John Stockton.
CHEN: Natasha Chen, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Joining me now, NBA Hall of Famer Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
It's an honor to have you on this morning.
What do you do with something like that? When you hear John Stockton, one of the great basketball players of all time, say something that's clearly, you know, from outer space, 150 professional athletes have dropped dead on the floor, on the pitch, what are you supposed to do with that?
KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR, NBA HALL OF FAMER: John, I'm having a very hard time hearing you. My audio is not coming through. BERMAN: If you can hear me, I hope you can hear me, what I was ask you
--
ABDUL-JABBAR: Now I can hear you.
BERMAN: OK.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Yes.
BERMAN: I was asking you about John Stockton.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Yes.
BERMAN: And what do you do with him? What do you do with something like that, the claim that it's just from outer space that 150 athletes have dropped dead, professional athletes, on the court?
ABDUL-JABBAR: I think statements like that make the public look upon athletes as basically dumb jocks for trying to explain away something that is obviously a pandemic. And the best way to fight pandemics is through vaccination and testing. Those are the means by which we identify the problem and do our best to mitigate it. And I don't understand anyone saying anything else that makes sense -- it doesn't make sense what he's saying. This is a preventative -- this is a preventative measure that has been useful in many different circumstances.
[08:50:11]
I remember when I was a kid and we -- we had to go get polio vaccinated. And some of the kids were like, it's the needle lady, and they were -- you know, they were all scared. But, the polio vaccine did a great job in reducing and mitigating the effect of polio on the nation's youth and was very effective that way. So, we have to use common sense and approach this in a way that gets the results that we want.
BERMAN: One thing I struggle with is what he says, what Stockton said is clearly so just outrageous. Like I said, it's, you know, it's one thing to say, oh, vaccines have side effects. He's going so far beyond that, that sometimes I wonder if, you know, we shouldn't even play something like that.
What do you think the right way to treat it is?
ABDUL-JABBAR: I think John's reaction to the vaccine is extreme and not based on reality or facts. And if John could just check the facts out, he would understand that this vaccine is saving lives and preventing people from getting serious -- having serious reactions to the virus. It won't eliminate the virus overnight, but it will stop people from dying, and it will stop people from becoming seriously ill. And this is a great benefit to us and we have to make use of it.
BERMAN: You've written extensively over the responsibility that you feel that athletes have right now. You've, you know, criticized Aaron Rodgers for lying about -- well, he said he was immunized, instead of saying he was vaccinated. People thought he was misleading the public there. You've been very critical of him. But what role do you think athletes have to play here?
ABDUL-JABBAR: I think athletes have a great role to play. I mean because in kids that are in high school, 73 percent of them see athletes as effective role models and respect what they're doing and listen to what they're saying about various issues. So, you know, I think athletes can do a great amount of good by letting young people know that, hey, go get vaccinated. This is how you protect yourself and your families and the people that you care about. This is how you're able to go to football practice next year, because everybody will be immunized and ready to participate. There are a lot of benefits to this that these people are just ignoring and coming up with this hysterical reaction that has no basis in fact. And that's a -- that's a big problem.
BERMAN: You know, it's -- you know, the old Charles Barkley commercial, which is outdated, I think even he would admit it, where he said, I'm not a role model. You can't live like that anymore is what you're saying.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Yes. We can't. There's too many of us living together. And if I want to be -- have a reaction to the Covid situation that is based on ignorance and misinformation, I'm harming myself, my family and the people that I care about, that I work with every day. These things reach out and touch a lot of people, and it's not fun.
BERMAN: Right.
ABDUL-JABBAR: You know, I've seen some of my friends deal with this, and it's definitely not fun.
BERMAN: I want to ask you about a project you're working on, which I'm super excited about because it deals with one of my favorite subjects. It's called "Black Patriots: Heroes of the Revolution." Among other things, it deals with Crispus Attucks, who may have been the first patriot to die in the American revolution.
What's this about?
ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I will take an in-depth look at all of the black Americans that made it possible for the revolution to succeed. There were soldiers, spies, people who helped people escape via the underground railroad. All of these people had information that helped the -- that helped George Washington and the Revolutionary Army.
Alexander Hamilton kept urging him to say, look, offer freedom to the blacks that aren't fighting right now, and we will solve our manpower shortage problems. But Washington was of two minds throughout the war on this issue.
But I get into all of that. I talk about how the British did the same thing and it was a little bit more successful for the British because they had some place for the freed slaves to go, you know, the West Indies where they could be employed and not enslaved.
[08:55:10]
And pretty soon after the revolutionary war, the British eliminated slavery.
BERMAN: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, I loved watching you play. I love reading what you're writing these days even more. It makes me think, always. So, thank you so much for what you're doing.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Yes, and anybody wants to read what I'm writing, it's kareem.substack.com.
BERMAN: It's worth it. Thanks so much, sir.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Thank you.
BERMAN: The January 6th committee revealing that members have already spoken with former Attorney General Bill Barr. New details ahead.
KEILAR: Plus, three big trials beginning today. Michael Avenatti versus Stormy Daniels, Sarah Palin versus "The New York Times" and the three other officers in the murder of George Floyd. Stand by for all of that.
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