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Patient Removed From Heart Transplant List For Vaccine Refusal; EPA Ramps Up Pollution Action Across U.S. South Cancer Alley; Wisconsin Bill Would Allow Loaded Guns On School Property. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired January 26, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY: I mean, this is someone who, a couple of years ago, we were at the same Aspen Institute panel.

He is a venture capitalist who is running now as someone who is fighting against corporate oligarchs. That's what Marjorie Taylor Greene used in her announcement. And I think a lot of people in Washington find it funny or maybe repulsive, or whatever it is.

I'm not so sure that voters in Ohio really care one way or another. They are waiting in that race -- Republican voters are waiting in that race for the Trump endorsement. But I think you could argue that the Marjorie Taylor Greene endorsement is a precursor to that.

And so, that's why it's somewhat notable, in addition to I think what a lot of people see as hypocrisy from J.D. Vance. He's someone who was widely viewed as some kind of -- you know, almost like a moderate corporatist-type figure who has turned himself into a populist in the mold of Trump. And we'll see if Ohio voters believe that by the time they have a chance to cast a ballot.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Abby Phillip, thank you for being with us this morning.

PHILLIP: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: A young father who needs a heart transplant denied the procedure because he is unvaccinated. Why both he and the hospital are not backing down.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And just announced, how the EPA plans to take action on pollution that is wreaking havoc on the American south, like in Louisiana's so-called Cancer Alley.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:35:55]

KEILAR: Yes, we are tired of the pandemic. With all of the divisiveness over COVID, that may be the one sentiment that people can actually agree on. But one commentator spurred a controversy by characterizing that fatigue like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARI WEISS, HOST, HONESTLY PODCAST: We were told you get the vaccine. You get the vaccine and you get back to normal, and we haven't gotten back to normal. This is going to be remembered by the younger generation as a catastrophic moral crime. It's a pandemic of bureaucracy. It's not real anymore.

I'm done with COVID. I'm done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: It sure would be nice if COVID were done with us, too. Done with hospitals. Done with the doctors and the nurses who are stretched to their breaking points in many cases. We are not, though, done. We are not back to normal and that is because so many people are still actively choosing not to be vaccinated.

So I get her outrage. I'm not sure I get the direction of it when clowns like this are given platforms to sell their disinformation to millions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX BERENSON, AUTHOR, "PANCEMIA": We are at a very dangerous moment, Tucker. And I'm not exaggerating -- I think this is probably the most important appearance I've had with you in the last two years. It is -- it is completely clear now that the vaccines don't really work at all against Omicron. In these highly vaccinated and highly boosted countries, rates of infection are incredibly high and rates of serious disease and death are also rising.

The mNRA COVID vaccines need to be withdrawn from the market now. No one should get them. No one should get boosted. No one should get double-boosted. They are a dangerous and ineffective product at this point against Omicron.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: You know what's dangerous? That guy. Twitter yanked him entirely because he lies about COVID. He's lying there about the vaccine and the protection that it provides. But Fox has had this mad non-scientist on all pandemic.

Here are some real stats about the vaccine, all of these easily accessible to anyone who actually wants to know the truth.

According to the NIH, unvaccinated people are 20 times likelier to die of COVID than vaccinated people -- than unvaccinated people who catch COVID. Pardon me, unvaccinated, 20 times more likely to die than vaccinated folks who catch COVID. They're 17 times likelier to be hospitalized. Ten times likelier to be infected.

And then just to put the hospitalization rate in stark contrast, here -- the red line there -- that represents unvaccinated people filling hospitals last year due to COVID. The orange line there on the bottom -- the pretty straight line -- vaccinated.

The vaccine not only works, it's keeping people alive. And it has really created two distinct paths in this pandemic. The take your life into your own hands. Dramatically increase your odds of still being there for your spouse, your kids, your parents, your grandkids. And then the other path -- the roll the dice that maybe you won't be there to be in the family photo next year path.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, nearly 100,000 people who chose that second path died unnecessarily between July and October last year. They were not vaccinated. Think of all the people who loved them -- at Thanksgiving dinner, gathering for the holidays without them.

Before that, back in September, CNN took a snapshot of the pandemic in red and blue states. The 12 states with the highest case rate for every 100,000 people were run by Republican governors. The 13 states with the highest hospitalization rate for every 100,000 people, run by Republican governors. The 15 states with the highest percentage of deaths for every 100,00 people, run by Republican governors.

Red states, which make up a significant portion of Fox viewers.

The network spent the past 24 hours up in arms over the Biden administration's decision to restrict the use of two monoclonal antibody treatments -- treatments that are proven not to work against the Omicron variant, according to the FDA. None of that coverage or coverage at Fox Entertainment, of course, is aimed at the real and most urgent issue, which is people not getting the protection of the vaccine.

[07:40:20]

Also strange that anti-vaxxers are just fine with getting COVID treatments. Amazing miracles of science. Once they get COVID and they are staring down the odds but they don't want the vaccine -- also a miracle of science.

And again, the daily-double question is why is Rupert Murdoch, who was one of the first to get vaccinated, allowing this anti-science B.S. on the air because it is killing people? But, you know, ratings -- and that is the ultimate moral crime.

BERMAN: And it's a choice -- a clear choice.

A 31-year-old man in need of a heart transplant is no longer eligible for the procedure because he refuses to get the COVID vaccine. Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said in a statement, quote,

"...the COVID vaccine is one of several vaccines and lifestyle behaviors required for transplant candidates in the Mass General Brigham system in order to create both the best chance for a successful operation and also the patient's survival after transplantation. Candidates must also receive the seasonal influenza and hepatitis B vaccines, follow other healthy behaviors, and demonstrate they can commit to taking the required medications following transplant."

Now, here's what the man's father says, explaining why his son refuses to get vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID FERGUSON, FATHER OF MAN IN NEED OF HEART TRANSPLANT: My son is on the edge of death. He's got to stick to his guns. His heart has now deteriorated so much to the point where it won't work on its own. It's kind of against his basic principles. He doesn't really believe in it. It's his body. It's his choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now, the director of medical ethics at NYU's Grossman School of Medicine, Professor Arthur Caplan. Professor, thanks so much for being with us.

I think you need to explain to people so they understand what the procedures are for who gets organ transplants. How does it work and what are the requirements?

ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL ETHICS, NYU GROSSMAN SCHOOL OF MEDICINE (via Skype): Hey, good morning, John.

So, what we have is transplant centers make decisions about who to admit to their transplant programs. Each transplant center has rules -- has criteria for saying you can come in. We think you really are in need of a transplant.

And once they're in a hospital, there's a national system that takes all the people that have been admitted to individual transplant centers and, if you will, ranks them, assigns them. They know what their blood type is. They know what their antibody type is. They know whether they need a large heart or a small heart. And so, the distribution then moves around the country, say, of hearts.

No heart that's eligible for transplant from a donor is likely to go to waste. The argument is who to give it to. Who has the best chance to survive with this very scarce resource.

BERMAN: There are a finite number of hearts and organs available and who gets them depends on who has the best chance of surviving and also who needs it most?

CAPLAN: Correct. So, we are really short on organs. People should still sign their donor cards. We need more organs. You know, John, we've been pursuing at NYU, Maryland, and other

programs trying to engineer animals to try and get more organs -- the pig heart experiments that we've been seeing -- to try and fill the gap. But every day many will die because there aren't enough organs to give them. The transplant teams do their best to figure out how to use them most effectively -- the scarce supply they've got.

BERMAN: And their determination is if you haven't taken the COVID vaccine you are not a good candidate for the finite resource, they say.

But what do you say to supporters of this man who wants a new heart who say he's being punished?

CAPLAN: Well look, there is a big battle out there -- we just heard about it -- about do you use COVID vaccination to prevent getting COVID? This is not discrimination. This is not biased.

What's going on here is the transplant team is saying if you catch COVID before we can transplant you, you're never going to get transplanted. You're going to become too sick. And whatever the risks are associated with the vaccine, they're usually outweighed by catching a case of COVID, being in the ICU, and falling right off the list.

Post-transplant we've got to try and finetune your immune system because we give you drugs so you don't reject the heart. It would be easier to do that if you didn't have the flu, if you didn't have COVID, if you didn't have pneumonia, if you didn't have many other viral diseases.

[07:45:00]

You need to take this so that you maximize your chances of success. And if you won't do it, then others who will do it are going to get priority because we don't have enough hearts to give to everybody.

BERMAN: Again, it's important to note other vaccines are required as well. We're dealing with a very finite resource here.

Professor Art Caplan, thanks for being with us.

CAPLAN: Hey, my pleasure.

KEILAR: Just announced, the EPA ramping up its pollution monitoring and enforcement to help communities in the south that are facing the most harmful impact, including Louisiana's Cancer Alley.

CNN's Rene Marsh traveled there last year. Rene, tell us about this.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we were there last year with the EPA administrator -- Brianna, good morning -- and this was one of the most toxic area codes in America -- some of the highest cancer rates. We met with people -- spoke with people who have been breathing this toxic air for decades.

And now, this morning, the EPA announcing a slew of new policies targeting this toxic air in places like Cancer Alley in Louisiana.

And so, some of those new policies include special aircraft to fly over these areas to monitor the emissions coming from the many petrochemical plants in these areas. They also will have air monitoring on the ground. They're also going to be providing a $20 million grant to communities so they can apply for those monies to have these sort of air monitors within their neighborhoods.

Because for far too long, many of these communities had no idea what they were even breathing in. They just knew that their family members -- their sisters, mothers, brothers -- they were being diagnosed with cancer. They were having respiratory issues.

And the EPA has linked a lot of the chemicals coming from these chemical plants to cancer. So the EPA is stepping up, putting some action behind that tour that they had this past November and saying that they are going to be keeping these chemical companies on their toes.

Aside from the air monitoring that they announced this morning, they're also going to be doing unannounced checks where they'll just show up at many of these companies to make sure that they are staying within the EPA regulations and controlling their emissions.

But again, Brianna, this is welcome news for many of the people who I spoke to while there in November who just felt like this issue has been ignored for decades. They've lost way too many family members to things like cancer as a result of this. And so, there is this sigh of relief to at least here now these beginning stages -- this action that the EPA is saying that they will take to make sure that they better understand what's in the air in places in Louisiana -- Cancer Alley.

KEILAR: Yes. And look, they're going to keep paying the price in the decades to come but they have this chance to turn it around, and it's so important, Rene. Thank you for your reporting.

MARSH: Sure.

KEILAR: Coming up, why 18-year-olds in Wisconsin could soon legally be allowed to bring guns onto school property. You heard that right.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK O'CONNELL, BASEBALL WRITERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: ...to let you know that the baseball writers have elected you to the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

DAVID ORTIZ, FORMER RED SOX STAR, ELECTED TO BASEBALL HALL OF FAME: Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Big Papi where he belongs, elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame, and it was good. However, huge controversy about Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens -- two stars linked to steroids kept out. Just or unjust? The great debate explodes.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:42]

BERMAN: The New York City Police Department mourning today after the second officer shot while responding to a domestic incident in Harlem last week has died.

Officer Wilbert Mora was shot while responding to a call from a mother in a dispute with her son. Mora's partner, Officer Jason Rivera died on the scene.

Mora was a four-year veteran of the NYPD with aspirations of becoming a sergeant. He is described by family and friends as bright and humble.

The New York police commissioner announced Mora's passing in a statement saying, quote, "Wilbert is three times a hero. For choosing a life of service. For sacrificing his life to protect others. For giving his life even in death through organ donation. Our heads are bowed and our hearts are heavy."

Officer Wilbert Mora was just 27 years old.

KEILAR: In Wisconsin, several new gun rights measures are making their way through the legislature, including one that lowers the state's age requirement for carrying a concealed weapon from 21 to 18. And that means that high school seniors would legally be allowed to carry guns to school.

Joining us now is David Hogg. He is a survivor of the Parkland school shooting. He's also co-founder of March for Our Lives. David, good morning to you.

And I really was curious to get your input on this because specifically, these laws -- there's four of them but when taken together, some of them, you would see 18-year-olds, who would be some high school seniors, able to bring guns in their vehicles to school.

What's your reaction to that?

DAVID HOGG, PARKLAND SCHOOL SHOOTING SURVIVOR, CO-FOUNDER, MARCH FOR OUR LIVES (via Skype): I think it's horrifying. We've seen a massive rise in gun violence in our country over the past couple of years and we know that our country deals with an exceptionally high level of gun violence in comparison to other high-income countries.

This is not because kids at schools here necessarily are -- have guns or because there aren't enough police officers on campuses. It's because in those other countries they choose, unlike us, to protect children and their right to exist in their schools and in their front yards in their communities free of gun violence instead of guns in the first place. So it's horrifying to me.

KEILAR: These laws will go from the Republican Assembly to the Senate. Ultimately, though, they're expected to be vetoed, as you're aware, because the governor's a Democrat.

[07:55:00]

But what do you say to people who say well, it's not going to become law? Why do you say they should still pay attention to moves like this?

HOGG: Because this -- it could become law if just after -- in an upcoming election or to -- you know, the balance of power in the state changes. And we don't want to be this close to 18-year-olds being able to bring guns to campus in the first place.

We need people in Wisconsin and every state across the country to mobilize at the state level to go and lobby and show up when the NRA shows up and say no, we don't want our kids to have -- you know, we don't want our kids' right to exist in school free of gun violence to be compromised by the NRA's death agenda of pushing guns on everyone in our society so that they can continue to foment this insane narrative that we have in this country that guns make us safer.

And having all these individuals out there with guns in our society make us safer, with the reality being that if guns made us safer as the only country -- one of the few countries in the world where we have more guns than people, I wouldn't be talking to you right now because the shooting in Parkland never would have happened. The shooting in all these other places that we see time and time and time again on the news would not have happened in the first place.

So we need everyday Americans across the country of all ages to go to their state legislatures and show up when the NRA shows up. Because they are going to continue and we need to show up to oppose them.

KEILAR: What do you say -- you know, if you look at a recent -- somewhat recent Gallup poll you'll see that there's actually less favor for gun restrictions than there was several years ago. What do you make of that?

HOGG: It's come down to the state of our country. People are terrified about the political climate that we're in right now. It comes down to irresponsible leadership in our country and people turning on each other, unfortunately. Americans turning on each other and believing that we are best armed with a bullet to settle our differences between each other rather than working together to overcome and combat the sources of evil, of poverty, of militarism, and racism, as Dr. King has talked about throughout time.

And I think the reality of the situation is that people are terrified, in part because gun violence is so bad. But the reality is adding more guns to address gun violence is like pouring gasoline to put out a fire. It doesn't work and you're actually making the situation a whole lot worse.

As we've seen with guns sales going through the roof in 2020, there has been a corresponding major rise in gun deaths were -- when I started doing this work there were, on average, 40,000 people dying every year from gun deaths in this country. Now there are 45,000. KEILAR: What do you make, David, of what we're seeing in San Jose

where the city council has voted to institute -- it's really a first. It's a $25.00 annual fee and then it requires liability insurance for gun owners. The premiums would cost less if they do things like classes for gun safety or they have locks on guns or a gun safe -- that kind of thing. This would be going into effect in August, or it's supposed to it seems.

What do you make of this?

HOGG: I think it's a good step forward. There are other countries similar to the United States that have guns as a major part of their culture, and it's an undeniable fact that they are a part of our culture and history in this country. However, the differences in those countries, such as Switzerland -- they have strong regulations around those guns in the first place. So their gun death rate is much lower than ours in the first place.

And I think if we think about guns as the dangerous objects that they are, obviously, I think no responsible gun owner would have an issue with something like a background check or needing to have liability insurance in the first place.

I think, ultimately, the solution that we should be looking for as Americans is something similar to what we have with cars where if you want to get a car, you can -- but you need a license and you need to have it registered, and you need to have liability insurance that goes with it. So in the instance that gun or that car is misused or harms somebody that there is insurance there to cover it.

KEILAR: Yes. And look, certainly, with constitutional protections there is going -- there are going to be challenges. You know there will be people who say owning a car isn't a protection under the Constitution, but owning a weapon is. And so, this is a conversation, David, we're going to keep on having because we know that there will be challenges to these regulations.

David Hogg, thank you so much.

HOGG: Thank you.

KEILAR: NEW DAY continues right now.

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, January 26th. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

And we do begin with a CNN exclusive that could be an important turning point in the investigation into the Capitol insurrection -- the criminal investigation. For the first time, the Department of Justice confirms the existence of an investigation connected to the highest levels of Trump world. We're talking Rudy Giuliani and others.