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Goldberg Suspended for Remarks; Sen. Dick Durbin is Interviewed about the Supreme Court Nominee; Weekly Jobless Claims Fell; U.S. Military Kills ISIS Leader. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 03, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:34]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a lot of different reactions to ABC's decision to suspend Whoopi Goldberg from her position on "The View" after she made a mistake suggesting that race had nothing to do with the Holocaust, which she later apologized for.

Here's what political scientist and Johns Hopkins Professor Yascha Mounk told CNN's Don Lemon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YASCHA MOUNK, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Whoopi Goldberg made a mistake. We solve the problem in the best way we can with lots of counter speak, with lots of people pointing out the mistake she made. She realized that she had made a mistake. As you say, she apologized live on air. And that, to me, was a great teaching moment. Viewers of "The View" may have learned something from it, may have come away with a better understanding of this tragic part of human history and I don't see what is accomplished by telling her basically to go take a time-out, sit in the corner of a room and be ashamed of herself. This is just a way for network executives to demonstrate that they're taking this seriously. It doesn't really accomplish anything in the real world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now is Don Lemon, the anchor of "DON LEMON TONIGHT," also the author of "This is the Fire: What I Sy to My Fiends about Racism."

I'm so curious to hear what you think about Whoopi Goldberg's suspension. DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, "DON LEMON TONIGHT": Well, listen, it is up to ABC, obviously, to decide, and the head of ABC to decide, you know, what punishment or what have you that Whoopi Goldberg should face.

I personally think Yascha is right. I think this is probably about -- more about the politics inside of ABC, inside of the company, than it is about anything else.

As I said to Yascha last night, and Professor Cornell West, you have to realize who your allies are. Whoopi does not have a history of anti-Semitism. She's not an anti-Semite. She said something that was, quite frankly, ill informed. Clumsy, if you want to say. But, ill informed. And if you want to say ignorant, fine. And I think many people also did understand the point she was trying to make, but that she was looking at race in the context of modern -- of modern society.

The Nazis didn't look at it that way. They saw the Jews as a race. They saw the Jews -- quite frankly, they thought Jews were an inferior race. They were trying to create a master race.

So, in that sense, absolutely, the Holocaust is about racism. What Hitler was doing was all about racism.

But when you apologize and your apology is sincere and you say I'm going to do all of the things that, you know, necessary in order to educate myself and others on this and you don't have a history of doing that, and you're on a show that's called "The View" and not "the facts," I think this may be a little bit heavy handed.

[08:35:14]

Remember, it's called "The View." That's Whoopi's view. Her view may be wrong. And -- but it's not a show called "the facts." If she was dealing with facts, if she was on a traditional newscast, if she was hosting the evening news on ABC, what is it, "World News Tonight," then we might have a huge problem about her actually being in the position that she's in. But the show is called "The View." She's giving her view.

Her view was wrong. OK. So let's work with that wrong view in the context of people giving their opinions or stating how they feel and have the conversation on the show about why Whoopi was wrong. I don't understand why they -- it took so long for them to release a statement, several days -- you know, several days later, and then have her apologize, have this whole show mostly, you know, with Jonathan Greenblatt and have the conversation, and then say you're going to suspend her after she apologizes. Like, what does that mean?

Intent is important. Yes, what her -- her words -- in this environment we have to be allies to each other. As a person who is, you know, who is a minority, a double minority, right, black and gay, I understand how words can hurt people, how words can create danger for some people. But as long as you are using speech to combat that, that is the right thing to do.

And, folks, I've said this since the 2015 election, when Black Lives Matter protesters were shouting down Hillary Clinton, and shouting down people like Bernie Sanders or whoever who is on their side, talking about Black Lives Matter, espousing the, you know, the views of Black Lives Matter saying, yes, black lives do matter in this environment and you're yelling at them, shouting at them, you have to remember, you have to know who your allies are. And sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But, guess what, they're your allies. They're at least on your side and they're trying to learn. So we have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies and have -- and we have to start having conversations with our allies.

Whoopi is an ally to the Jewish community. She is. She said something that was -- that she shouldn't have said. OK. Fine. But I agree with Yascha, don't put her in a corner and marginalize her, use her to the best of your ability to get the conversation and your point across about what's wrong about that kind of thinking because she's not the only one who thinks it. But she is a good place to start. She has a huge platform to get people interested and engaged in the conversation.

BERMAN: I'm going to change the subject with your permission.

LEMON: Yes, sorry, I went on for a long time.

Please.

BERMAN: No, no, no, no.

Do you watch "The Masked Singer"?

LEMON: No. I've seen it before. I know what you're going to talk about.

BERMAN: Do you know what happened?

LEMON: Yes, Rudy -- does Rudy Giuliani even need a mask. Like, I mean doesn't he --

BERMAN: He took off the mask.

LEMON: He's already a mask --

BERMAN: Took off the Rudy Giuliani mask and he was underneath it.

LEMON: Yes.

BERMAN: OK, don't answer that question.

LEMON: Rudy Giuliani took off the mask. What did they have him, like, with -- with hair dye running down his face?

BERMAN: I don't know. We don't know the details of what he -- what he -- what he was dressed up as.

LEMON: Yes. BERMAN: The point is this. Is this show, which dresses people up in these costumes and they sing songs and then the judges try to guess who they are, they put Rudy Giuliani on.

LEMON: They put Sarah Palin on.

BERMAN: Well, let me tell you, Rudy Giuliani is a guy who is -- contributed to two impeachments, not one but two impeachments --

LEMON: Yes.

BERMAN: And who actively, publicly, in front of the whole world, tried to overturn an election.

LEMON: Yes.

BERMAN: And they have him sing and dance.

LEMON: Yes, they did. But the other person I mentioned did a similar, not as much as Rudy Giuliani, but contributes to the misinformation in the country, the lies in the country, the gas lighting of America.

Yes, but Rudy Giuliani is actively involved in an investigation now, the overthrow of the government, right?

I think it's -- look, again, Fox's decision, but it is -- was not smart. I don't know if I would have walked off. I think I --

BERMAN: You know what -- so Ken Jeong and Robin Thicke, like, God bless Robin Thicke, which might be a statement I never make again, OK.

LEMON: I like Robin Thicke.

BERMAN: Because I don't know who he is.

LEMON: You don't know who -- oh, Robin --

BERMAN: He's Alan Thicke's son? "Growing Pains" was a great show.

LEMON: He's Alan Thicks's son, but he's got -- he has a beautiful voice and his -- he has this -- you know, a beautiful voice.

BERMAN: Can we talk about "Growing Pains"?

LEMON: Yes.

BERMAN: OK. I don't know anything about Robin Thicke.

LEMON: Yes.

BERMAN: He walked off -- he walked off -- he walked off the set.

LEMON: Here's the thing that I have learned. You never want to seed territory to that. You stand up to those people and you talk to them.

Now, the thing is, is that if you don't want them on, it's just, I guess, not Robin Thicke's decision and Ken's decision. Then you, if you don't want to give them a platform, then you don't invite them on.

But once that person is on your platform, then you challenge them. I would have taken that opportunity to ask Rudy Giuliani every single question that I wanted to ask him about the insurrection, about his role in it, about how what he's doing to the country, how he's destroying society and culture and democracy. I would have talked to him about that.

I would ask him, that day when -- how did you go to the Four Seasons Landscaping instead of the Four Seasons Hotel. What were you thinking? What was running down your face when you were giving that ridiculous press conference? Why are you saying that the Venezuelans were involved in the -- I would have taken "The Masked Singer" and turned it into the unmasked -- unmasking of Rudy Giuliani to figure out exactly what's going on inside his head.

[08:40:08]

KEILAR: Yes.

LEMON: Which is probably -- which is a really scary thing, Brianna.

KEILAR: Can we count on the singer of "Blurred Lines" to do that, though, I would say.

OK, I do want to ask you --

LEMON: Yes, ma'am (ph).

KEILAR: I want to ask you about something that -- you know, I don't know what the answer is to this, and we've had folks on today who --

LEMON: I don't know the meaning of life, I'm sorry.

KEILAR: Well --

BERMAN: We all need to know that today.

KEILAR: That's another show entirely.

OK, so NFL halftime show, right?

LEMON: Yes.

KEILAR: And you have an extraordinary lineup of talent. Dr. Dre, Mary J. Blige, Snoop, Kendrick Lamar, Eminem, they're going to preform.

LEMON: Yes.

KEILAR: And now they're in the middle of this learning about this lawsuit and this sort of reckoning of racism in the NFL. So, what do they do? What do you think they should do? Anything?

LEMON: Well, everyone is asking me, do you think they'll show up, you think they'll do it? I think they will. Again, as I said with "The Masked Singer," you take that platform and you turn it into something that -- where you can get people's attention. Where you can teach them about what is happening. If you -- you know, Brian, in his lawsuit, said that the NFL is like a plantation. OK, that seems hyperbolic. But if you actually look at it, not so -- no so hyperbolic.

KEILAR: The structure, right? The structure of it.

LEMON: The structure of it. You have all of these very rich millionaires, billionaires, who are owners, sitting in those expensive boxes, and 70 percent of the players are down on the field making them billions and billions of dollars. And there are, you know, maybe one black coach, no black owners, something is wrong. Something is amiss.

So I think that those entertainers take the opportunity, they're going to tick off a lot of people, and good on them, and show the hypocrisy of what's happening with the NFL and the structure and the culture that they have. (INAUDIBLE).

KEILAR: I'm curious, I think they're going to feel compelled to do something. I think the question is, what is that going to look like. And we know we'll be watching along with you, Don Lemon. Thank you so much.

LEMON: Brianna, get here please to -- I got to sit in the room with this guy and --

BERMAN: She's coming next week.

KEILAR: I'll see you next week.

BERMAN: Pipe down, she's coming next week.

LEMON: Pipe down!

BERMAN: She's coming next week.

KEILAR: Pencil me in.

LEMON: Can you believe that.

BERMAN: I have feelings.

LEMON: Oh, yes, I know. I know.

BERMAN: I have feelings.

LEMON: Thank you, guys.

KEILAR: Be nice to Berman, Lemon. Be nice to him.

BERMAN: Watch Don's show.

KEILAR: 10:00 p.m.

BERMAN: Watch Don's show tonight at 10:00 p.m., every night at 10:00 p.m. It's worth it. All right, just released, the weekly jobless claims. We're going to

talk about what it shows about the economic recovery and the impact of the great resignation.

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KEILAR: The process for selecting the next Supreme Court justice is underway. The White House has brought in former Alabama Senator Doug Jones to serve as the sherpa, as it's known, to shepherd the nominee through the process, whoever she may be. And President Biden's promise to nominate the first black woman to the high court has wrinkled some Republicans who are openly questioning whether more qualified candidates will be passed over, even as GOP Senate leaders are warning their conference against backlash from a contentious confirmation process.

[08:45:10]

Let's talk about all of this now with Senator Dick Durbin. He is the Democratic whip. He's also, and very importantly in this case, the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, before which this nominee will be testifying here in the coming weeks.

Senator, thanks for being with us this morning at such an important time in all of this.

Confirmation by the end of March, do you think?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Well, I can't say exactly when it will be, but the president met with Republican Senator Chuck Grassley and myself in the Oval Office and said he's starting the process to choose a nominee, wants to do it before the end of the month. I want him to take his time and get it right, but the sooner we receive the nomination, the sooner we can move into action to start the committee hearings.

I don't know what the target is, but we certainly know that the ordinary course from nomination to vote on the floor is around 40 days. The president noted -- has had personal experience with that and said he hoped that that will be our goal this time too.

KEILAR: OK, so early April the latest you think?

DURBIN: I think that's possible. It depends on when the nomination is received, but it is possible.

KEILAR: OK. And so when you're talking about receiving that nomination, you think maybe a few weeks, or are you thinking really truly the end of the month?

DURBIN: Well, I've got my fingers crossed that it's sooner than the end of the month. But I want the president to be satisfied he has chosen the best person and move forward from there.

KEILAR: So -- and you're well aware that some of your colleagues across the aisle are criticizing the president's pledge to nominate a black woman.

This is what Senator Roger Wicker said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): The irony is that the Supreme Court is, at the very same time, hearing cases about this sort of affirmative racial discrimination and while adding someone who is the beneficiary of this sort of quota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Senator Hawley also referred to it as a quota.

What's your reaction to that?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that I would like to remind both senators it was President Ronald Reagan, a Republican, I believe, who announced that he was looking for a woman to serve on the Supreme Court, came up with a great name, Sandra Day O'Connor, who served with distinction. And it was a Republican president, Donald Trump, who said he wanted a woman on the court to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I didn't hear the same criticism from the Republican side.

Let's face the reality here. We've had 115 Supreme Court justices in the history of the United States, 108 have been white men. I really think there's room for us to consider not only women, but women of color to fill these vacancies.

KEILAR: So why is that, then, Reagan, woman, Republicans, are OK with it? Trump, woman, Republicans are OK with it? Biden, black woman, Republicans are not OK with it. Something is very different in this. What stands out to you?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, we've had 25 women of color come before the Senate Judiciary Committee during the first year of the Biden administration. And some of the people who are speaking the loudest about not choosing a black woman have never voted for a black nominee. And that's just a fact. I'm sorry to say. But it is the reality of this year, 2022, and American history.

KEILAR: Senator Lindsey Graham, very different story coming from him than some of the other Republicans that we just showed you. He said -- and he has voted for Democratic nominees often.

DURBIN: Yes.

KEILAR: He's pushing for South Carolina U.S. District Court Judge Michelle Childs, who, you're well aware, is sort of a favorite of Jim Clyburn on the House side. And Graham says that that's actually a pick that would bring Republican support.

DURBIN: Well, I --

KEILAR: How important is it to get Republican support? DURBIN: I think it's very important, not just for the Supreme Court to

have a bipartisan selection, but also for the Senate itself to show that it can work in a bipartisan way. And I might -- I want a tip of the hat to Lindsey Graham. People are amazed that he and I work together. We do. We disagree on so many things. But I think he's really struck the right cord here. If the right person comes along, and he can support that person and make this a bipartisan process, it will be a stronger process.

Now, I noticed that his golfing partner has been critical of those statements. And, of course, speaking of the former president, Donald Trump. But I think Lindsey has shown real independence when it comes to judicial selections.

KEILAR: Should something like that factor into President Biden's calculus? And by that I mean, if he's looking at two different candidates and one is Michelle Childs and one is not and Lindsey Graham and other Republicans can get behind Michelle Childs, they can't get behind the other potential nominee, should that be kind of a tiebreaker or no?

DURBIN: Well, I don't know if that would be decisive. It would certainly be an important factor. I think as I met with President Biden in the Oval Office and Senator Chuck from Iowa, I can just tell you, Chuck Grassley said, we've both voted on about 16 to 18 Supreme Court justices and only disagreed twice.

[08:50:13]

So there's been a lot of bipartisanship in this process in the past.

KEILAR: Yes, there has been in the past. It's so important to remember that.

Senator Dick Durbin, really appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you.

DURBIN: Thanks, Brianna.

BERMAN: All right, just in, weekly jobless claims.

CNN chief business correspondent and "EARLY START" anchor Christine Romans here with the numbers.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Those numbers declined, 238,000 first time jobless claims in the week. That's a good number. What this chart is showing you, John, is that where we are in the job market right now is not a story of layoffs any longer at all. This is a story of people quitting their jobs and looking for higher pay and better positions. That is the theme, the trend, in the job market. The four-week moving average of those jobless claims, not to get too wonky on you, but it's the lowest since 1973. So that tells you the trend here very good. Layoffs are not the hallmark of the job market anymore. It's resignations.

When you look at total quits last year, more than 47 million people quit their jobs. That is an astonishing number and it shows you the churn in the labor market. They're going for better pay, they're going for entirely new industries and they're being recruited.

"The Wall Street Journal" had a story this week about how teachers are being recruited by corporate America for jobs in sales, jobs in training, in IT. Teachers, education services, the biggest sector of those resignations last year. That has implications for everyone, for parents, for workers, for the labor market.

Tomorrow you're going to get a jobs report. It could be disappointing. The White House and economists writ large have been saying this could be a disappointing number because companies have had to close their doors during the omicron surge, especially in services, retail, hospitality. It's likely temporary, but we're bracing for that tomorrow. But the story --

BERMAN: The measurement window was literally during the worst of omicron.

ROMANS: Exactly. Exactly. So people are home sick. People didn't have hours, you know, because their company had closed briefly. So that will be the hallmark tomorrow and that's expected to be temporary.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, I look forward to seeing you tomorrow.

ROMANS: Yes, I'll see you tomorrow, John.

BERMAN: All right.

Here's what else to watch today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: 12:15 p.m. ET, Biden remarks at NYPD headquarters.

2:00 p.m. ET, State Department briefing.

2:00 p.m. ET, Super Bowl security demo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So, we do have some big, breaking news this morning.

President Biden confirming that the U.S. carried out a counterterrorism raid in Syria, and it killed the leader of ISIS. The White House released this photo from the Situation Room. The president is set to deliver remarks here at any moment.

Joining us now is CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen. He is the author of many books, including "The Rise and Fall of Osama bin Laden."

Can you put this into context for us, the elimination of al Qurayshi, and what this means?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, I'm not sure it means a huge amount, to be honest. I mean al Qurayshi, the guy who was the leader of ISIS, who was just killed, was virtually unknown. His last name indicates that he at least claims to be a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad, which is kind of an important thing for ISIS to have a leader who makes that claim.

He made almost no public statements. He did not have some charismatic presence like Osama bin Laden or even Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, who was killed by, you know, a Trump administration raid in 2019. I'm sure they'll find somebody to replace him. ISIS itself has lost its geographical hold in Iraq and Syria. It's still capable of mounting raids. We saw a big one in northeast -- in Hisaka (ph), in Syria, where they tried to release a number of ISIS prisoners. It was a pretty bloody battle within the last week or so and hundreds were killed. So they're still capable of mounting those kinds of operations and they certainly have affiliates in Afghanistan with thousands of members.

But I think, you know, overall, you know, it's not insignificant. On the other hand, you know, this was not a terribly charismatic leader who was calling for operations in the west in a -- in a frequent manner. And I'm sure they will replace him very quickly.

BERMAN: Peter, we've only got a few seconds left here but can you give us a status report on ISIS. Is ISIS growing, shrinking, where are they right now?

BERGEN: Kind of depends where you are, John. I mean, in Afghanistan, they've got lot of freedom of movement. In places like, you know, Syria and Iraq, they certainly have some capacity. You know, their ability to recruit westerners has gone down very, very much. So, I would say, you know, they're not in great shape, but they certainly haven't disappeared.

[08:55:00]

KEILAR: And what are you expecting from the president when we hear from him, Peter?

BERGEN: Well, I mean, I don't think he will take a huge victory lap. I mean, you know, I think this is one kind of, you know, it's one more iteration of this. And, I mean, you know, he's very vulnerable on the question of Afghanistan, which is, you know, terror central right now. So I think he has to be careful about sort of claiming that the war on terror is over. I'm sure he's not going to do that because it isn't true.

KEILAR: Can he say it sends a message to terrorists?

BERGER: Yes, I mean, and, you know, some women and children were killed and we still don't know some of the details of the raid. But, yes, I mean, look, I mean if you're running one of these groups, the United States is certainly -- and it says something about the over the horizon capabilities. I mean clearly they were able to do this from -- send a raid in and make it work.

KEILAR: Peter -- BERMAN: Peter Bergen, thank you very much.

So, CNN's coverage of this breaking news continues right after this.

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