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Vanished Tennis Star: Assault Allegation was 'Misunderstanding'; Putin, Macron to Meet as U.S. Issues Warning; Rogan Apologizes for Racial Slurs, Spotify Pulls 100+ Episodes; Stacey Abrams Pushes Back against Criticism for Maskless Pic. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 07, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, February 7. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

[06:00:03]

And breaking overnight, a major development from inside China as that nation tries to portray a clean image to the world during the Olympic Games. Chinese tennis star, Peng Shuai, who had all but disappeared after making claims of sexual assault against a former Communist Party leader, finally emerged to do an interview with a French sports newspaper.

It appears to have been a controlled, chaperoned exchange with reporters with the goal of sending the message, nothing to see here. She called the sexual assault allegations a huge misunderstanding and said she deleted a social media post that accused the party official of pressuring her into having sex. She says she deleted it because she wanted to.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Now, this western media interview coming a day after Peng met with dinner -- met for dinner with the president of the International Olympic Committee. Both seemingly an effort to defuse global concerns by China about Peng's safety that have threatened to overshadow the Olympics.

CNN's Selina Wang is live for us in Beijing. Selina, there are going to be a lot of questions about whether this is something that she really has full agency over.

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. This meeting with Thomas Bach, the interview with the French outlet, they do not lessen concerns from these rights groups, who say we still do not know whether Peng was coerced into making these statements, in order to make this scandal go away.

In the interview with "L'Equipe," a French sports outlet, she basically denied ever making sexual assault allegations, calling the whole situation and the global outcry a, quote, "huge misunderstanding."

Now, this is the second time she's walked back her original claims, but it is the first time she's spoken to an independent media outlet.

Remember, back in November, she had posted this long, emotional story on Chinese social media about how she had been coerced into sex by a former Chinese vice premier who is one of the most powerful leaders in China.

She then disappeared from view for weeks. All accusations were scrubbed from the Chinese Internet. She did later reappear in seemingly choreographed reappearances.

And we spoke to the French journalist who did the interview with Peng. He told me when they were talking about sports, she seemed relaxed. But the moment he talked about the allegations with her, she clearly turned cautious.

It's also clear that this interview was carefully managed. He told me there was a Chinese Olympic official in the room acting as translator. He had to submit the questions he was going to ask her beforehand. And they even requested that they publish this interview as a Q&A and not as a story with quotes and analysis around it.

Now, this happening around the same time that the IOC released a statement that they had dinner, Thomas Bach and Peng Shuai, here in Beijing. But no photos, no detailed information on what they actually discussed.

This is as rights groups have slammed the IOC for what they say is legitimizing the Chinese authority's efforts to silence Peng -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Selina. Thank you for that report.

BERMAN: Hey, look, it is very difficult to know what to make of it. As long as she's only doing these interviews with people watching over her shoulder, it's really hard to know what to make of it. Much more on that coming up.

New this morning, a crucial day of diplomacy to ward off a Russian invasion of Ukraine. The French president, Emmanuel Macron, is about to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin, as tensions on Ukraine's border reach their highest levels.

Macron says he's optimistic a breakthrough will happen. But could these talks backfire?

At the same time, the U.S. is warning that Russia has 70 percent of its military capabilities in place for a full-scale invasion and that Kyiv could be seized in a matter of days, and that could result in tens of thousands of casualties, up to 50,000 deaths.

This afternoon, President Biden will meet with new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Washington on their joint effort to deter further Russian aggression and to repair Germany's credibility in the crisis.

Joining us now, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor.

Ambassador, always a pleasure to see you.

When we spoke with you last week, you said you felt as if Vladimir Putin was looking for a way out of this, looking for an off-ramp. That was four or five days ago. A lot has happened since then, including increased Russian military buildup. Do you still feel that Putin is looking for a way out?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: John, I do. This would be a disaster for Russia. It would be a disaster for President Putin if he were to pull the trigger and invade Ukraine.

It would be disastrous for the Russian economy. He knows the sanctions would just hammer his already fragile economy. He knows he would be a pariah. He knows that, John, this could even be a war crime.

Just -- just the range of bad things that happened to Russia and President Putin, if he pulls this trigger, suggests to me that he's looking for a way out. He's looking for an alternative to this invasion that will kill, as you just said, tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians. Russian soldiers will also die.

[06:05:04]

This could destabilize his own regime, John. This could be a major problem for him.

So yes, he's looking for a way out. He may not get it. He may -- we know that he's invaded before. He invaded Ukraine in 2014. So we have to be ready. The Ukrainians have to be ready. But we also have to be -- have to continue to deter him and push him towards these negotiations.

KEILAR: So what is -- what is the vehicle for -- for getting out of this? He is going to be meeting with the French president. What's the vehicle here for the off-ramp?

TAYLOR: The vehicle for the off-ramp is for him to say, as -- as you just mentioned earlier, I never really planned to invade Ukraine. I never -- it was not my plan at the outset. What I really wanted to do was highlight my security concerns, Putin could say.

And he said -- he could say that the United States has finally acknowledged that I've got security concerns, and he could say the United States is now willing to sit down with me at the negotiating table. So that's -- that's the way he could get out of this bind that he's put himself in.

He's put himself into this box. It's all of his own making. And the world knows that there's no reason for him to invade Ukraine. It's -- it would be totally unprovoked.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about the meeting that President Biden is going to have today with the new German chancellor, Olaf Scholz. There's been some brutal press for Scholz in recent days from inside Germany and from around the world. Like things like a disappearing act. Where is he? They haven't heard from him. How much more does the United States want from Germany? What

specifically does the U.S. want out of Germany?

TAYLOR: So, John, we want to be sure that all allies, the French, as well as the Germans, as well as all the rest of NATO, as well -- as well as the rest of the United States' allies, are all pulling in the same direction. They can be pulling on different ropes, but they're all pulling in the same direction.

And we would like to have the Germans pulling on the rope that they've got. And they've got a thick rope. They've got this pipeline that Mr. Putin would really like to put into operation that goes from Russia to Germany that would -- that would further the vulnerability, increase the vulnerability of Europe to Russian energy leverage, an energy blackmail.

And so what we would like to see the Germans do is say this pipeline will not go into effect. We will not subject ourselves to further leverage, further vulnerability, further damage from the -- from the Russians having this control over energy supplies into -- into Europe. So this is what we would like to see from the Germans.

KEILAR: Jake Sullivan, the president's national security adviser, says we are in the window. I wonder if, to you, is it something positive to know we are in the window with each day that Vladimir Putin has not invaded?

TAYLOR: Each day that -- that Vladimir Putin doesn't invade is a good day. And each day that goes by, Brianna, the Ukrainians are better prepared. There's more weapons. There's more support. There's more movement on the part of Ukrainians to shore up their own support. Every day that goes by, the Ukrainians get stronger.

The other thing that happens as time goes by, is Ukraine gets closer and closer to Europe and farther and farther away from Russia. All this threat, all these threats that Putin is making against Ukraine, are driving Ukraine toward Europe, is making Ukrainians hate the Russians.

They didn't used to hate the Russians, most of them. Some did. But most didn't hate the Russians. Now they do. Now the vast majority of Ukrainians hate the Russians for what they have been putting them through and threatening to do.

So this is -- this is not working for Russia.

KEILAR: Ambassador Taylor, it is always great to have your insight. Thank you for being with us this morning.

BERMAN: So, developing overnight, Spotify CEO -- the Spotify CEO is finally addressing Joe Rogan's use of racial slurs in previous podcasts.

In a letter to his staff, Spotify CEO Daniel Ek apologized over the impact the controversy has had on them, but he added, "While I strongly condemn what Joe has said and I agree with his decision to remove past episodes from our platform, I realize some will want more. And I want to make one point very clear. I do not believe that silencing Joe is the answer. We should have clear lines around content and take action when they are crossed, but canceling voices is a slippery slope. Looking at the issue more broadly, it's critical thinking and open debate that powers real and necessary progress."

This is Rogan apologizing over the weekend for his use of racial slurs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": I know that to most people, there's no context where a white person is ever allowed to say that word, never mind publicly on a podcast. And I agree with that now.

[06:10:13]

I haven't said it in years. But for a long time, when I would bring that word up, like if it would come up in conversation, instead of saying "the 'N' word," I would just say the word.

I never used it to be racist, because I'm not racist. But whenever you're in a situation where you have to say I'm not racist, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. And I clearly have (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Here to discuss, CNN political commentator and host of PBS "Firing Line," Margaret Hoover; and Bakari Sellers, CNN political commentator and author of "Who Are Your People?"

Bakari, what's the right way of looking at this? I'm not even sure the framing of, you know, "Oh, should Spotify cancel Joe Rogan?" is the right discussion to be having here.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let me just push back. And as somebody who actually has a podcast on Spotify, it's kind of weird, sitting here, talking about the fact that the CEO just used every single buzz word he could possibly find.

No one is asking for Spotify to silence Joe Rogan. No one is asking for him to be canceled. I actually don't think cancel culture is a real thing. I think people say stuff, and you have consequences.

The fact is, people want you to curb the bigotry, the xenophobia and the racism that he has on multiple podcasts. That is what people are asking for. And the misinformation.

It's not about silencing or canceling Joe Rogan. It's about having real dialogue that doesn't include xenophobia or bigotry.

I think the fact that both of them missed -- the fact that the CEO of Spotify and Joe Rogan missed is simply this. You can never -- and white folk need to hear this during Black History Month. It is never OK to say the word "nigger," period. Anecdotally, you'll

never say it to my face. And just from a pure sociological context, that word is so tortured when it comes to black folk in this country. It's associated with -- with lynching. It's associated with brutality. It's associated with rape and pillaging.

And the fact that we have grown men, one who runs a company, and the other who is -- has $100 million contract to do a podcast, who simply do not understand this, is part of the problem with the conversation we're having.

I don't want to cancel Joe Rogan. In fact, I really don't care what the guy from "Fear Factor" has to say. He should not be able to divide our country.

But the fact of the matter is we have to begin to have intellectual conversations that are absent bigotry, xenophobia, and racism.

KEILAR: I wonder, Margaret, what you think of Joe Rogan's apology, where he's saying this is out of context, and he's essentially saying. It's not that I really use the "N" word. I just don't abbreviate it when I sort of talked about it in an abstract way?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, then he went on to say, But even when I see it that way, it's not OK. And he did say -- he did try to say, Look, it's about context. But then he backpedaled and said, And even that is terrible.

I mean, he was pretty, in that five-minute, if you -- you know, I watched the five-minute video so you don't have to. But he was pretty contrite. And he -- you know, it's up to you to decide whether he's sincere or not. But I think he did cover all the bases. He did all the requisite apologizing.

But what Bakari just said, I think, is so important. And, John, you're right to reframe the conversation. The conversation we should be having is why that word is not his word to say. And why, in Black History Month, it's important to reflect on the legacy of slavery in this country still. And racism as it exists now. And pockets in our country sociologically that don't fully understand and embrace and get the full scope of American history.

Because we want to integrate all of it so that we can reach this place of reconciliation and building forward together. And this is an opportunity to learn and reflect on that.

Rogan tipped his hat at, Gosh, I hope this can become a learning opportunity. It will become a learning opportunity. He can engage with Bakari Sellers about why that was wrong.

BERMAN: I will say, Margaret, that both Spotify and Joe Rogan seem to know they have a problem now. And that may just be because they can read stock prices.

HOOVER: Yes, bingo. Spotify's stock was down 17 percent last week, and that wasn't because of the misinformation from Joe Rogan. They're having trouble growing. This kind of a PR-palooza is not helpful.

And you want to take a moment to just wonder whether the marketplace. You know, you don't need mob culture or cancel culture. The marketplace can correct for behavior it doesn't like.

And will the marketplace, including streamers, performers who say, I don't want to appear on this platform if this -- this is going to be acceptable behavior.

[06:15:07]

You've seen Spotify change their behavior. They have originally said, We don't have anything to do with content. We're not going to -- we're not editorializing or going to demand certain standards.

Well, they just changed that. The CEO in his letter last night literally said, We are going to put parameters around what's acceptable on this platform now.

KEILAR: Yes. Where do you, Bakari, see this going and where would you like to see it go, knowing the answer to those two questions may be different?

SELLERS: I would like to see it go away. I mean, that's the fact.

Look, Joe Rogan has a history of this bigoted, racist rhetoric on his podcast and xenophobia rhetoric -- xenophobic rhetoric on his podcast that he casts off as being laughable, as a joke. He was this comedian who didn't know much.

And, you know, for a long period of time, it just stayed in the darkness of the Interwebs. People tuned in when they wanted to.

And now you have individuals who are withdrawing themselves, which they have every right to do, from both the platform and listening to Spotify.

And as Margaret so eloquently said, Spotify is correcting that. The marketplace does have a place in correcting bad behavior. This is not about silencing Joe Rogan, which is what drives me crazy from the CEO of Spotify. This is not about canceling Joe Rogan. If I don't want to hear someone say "nigger," I'm not canceling them. I'm not silencing them. What I am doing is showing that there are consequences to their ignorance.

And so I just really want this to go away. I don't -- I don't really have a particular heartburn for Joe Rogan. If he called me and wanted to talk, if I had time and I wasn't balancing twins, I may talk to him.

But the fact is, it's amazing how someone like Joe Rogan can divide this country, both politically and socially. And that just shows you how divided we are.

And right now, Spotify has a moment. Whether or not they'll take that moment, to try to bring us together and reconcile, I don't know. But -- but this is where we are today. And this is the travesty and kind of the sadness of this country today.

KEILAR: Look, maybe he will call. If we're talking about learning moments, maybe that is one that could come out of this.

Bakari, thank you so much.

Margaret, thank you.

HOOVER: Thanks.

KEILAR: Up next, Stacey Abrams -- and we're going to talk about this with Bakari and Margaret -- coming under fire for posing maskless in a room full of masked children. How Abrams is now responding to her critics.

Plus, Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra fighting back reports that he's irrelevant in his role just as frustrations are growing over the Biden administration's handling of the pandemic.

BERMAN: And huge disappointments for two of America's biggest Olympic stars.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:22:05]

KEILAR: Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams pushing back after facing backlash for appearing in a since-deleted tweet that featured her maskless, surrounded by children who were wearing their masks.

Abrams has championed more stringent masking policies in schools. The Abrams campaign, in a statement, wrote, "It is shameful that our opponents are using a Black History Month reading event for Georgia children as the impetus for a false political attack, and it is pitiful and predictable that our opponents continue to look for opportunities to distract from their failed records when it comes to protecting public health during the pandemic."

Margaret and Bakari back with us to talk about this. OK, Margaret, first, how do you see what she did there?

HOOVER: Look, it seems pretty clear to me that she -- she wore her mask during the event, as everybody who has opined since then, took it off for the photo, and realized that was a mistake.

Because understanding politically the dynamics in a -- the state that she's in, you know, there is a narrative about Democrats believing that a mask is, you know, for thee and not for me. There is this, you know, false narrative -- not a false narrative. There's just this notion that the mask debates and this narrative that the left and the Democrats are trying to tell you how to run your life, but they won't hold themselves to the same standard.

It plays into -- it's really an age-old narrative about Democrats versus Republicans, the sort of limousine liberal narrative. That's what's at play here.

To me it seems like a clear and obvious mistake, but one that, you know, is rife for FOX News segments for the next six months to play on a loop. So I think that's -- as evidence by the fact she took the tweet down -- the photo down. I think, you know, she recognized that it's an unhelpful image.

But it seems, you know, like it was an honest mistake.

BERMAN: Bakari, I saw a smile there.

SELLERS: Yes. I mean, in politics, is it unhelpful? The answer is yes. Because now we're talking about it on CNN. Trust me, they're going to be talking about it on FOX News all week long. And so it definitely ain't helpful.

The people, though, who are outraged weren't going to vote for Stacey Abrams anyway.

From a public health perspective or from a -- just a pure perspective, did she make a mistake? If my kid was in the classroom, would I be outraged? The answer is definitely not. Stacey Abrams is not trying to harm children. She was not flaunting regulations purposefully. She took a picture with her mask off, and everyone else had their mask on. So there's not an issue there.

But politically, she probably wants the day back, because now she's going to lose a week or two having to deal with this issue which is, for the most part, a nonissue.

Stacey Abrams is going to run a hell of a race. It's going to be extremely close. She's going to outrace Kemp. And having Kemp versus Purdue is a very interesting dynamic in the Republican primary itself.

You just cannot have this type of unforced error, for lack of a better term, multiple times. So she gets a mulligan for this one, I'm sure, and the campaign will move on.

[06:25:06]

KEILAR: I wonder, Bakari, how can you be so sure that there won't be people who would think about voting for her that are even kind of mildly turned off by this? Stacey Abrams has really shown that she's able to pull together a voting coalition.

Certainly, some of those people could be folks who are a little -- you know, they're just sort of peeved at what they've been through when it comes to kids and COVID and school.

SELLERS: No doubt. But I -- I have a hard time believing -- and one of the things that Terry McAuliffe showed us is that you have to truly be concerned and sensitive to how parents feel about their children in classrooms and making sure they're in school.

And my only point is that I don't think a picture, where we know the context of that picture and trust and believe Georgians know the context, that she was wearing a mask throughout, and she decided to take it off for the picture, I don't think that's going to drive away voters that she has an opportunity to win.

And in fact, I think most people will look at the context. And then they'll do something which is absolutely crazy during this time period. They'll actually look at her policies, and they'll see that she wants children in the classrooms. She just wants them in there in a responsible fashion. And I think most parents will be able to get on board, as long as they can have input into the decisions around educating their kids.

BERMAN: Bakari, Margaret, our thanks to both of you. Have a wonderful rest of the day.

SELLERS: Thank you.

HOOVER: Have a great one. Take care.

BERMAN: So how could it be that during a pandemic, the secretary of Health and Human Services never had a substantive private meeting with President Biden? That's just one of the revelations in a CNN exclusive.

KEILAR: Plus, a terrifying siege. A man breaks into Michael Bloomberg's ranch, kidnaps an employee. But hear who he was really targeting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:00]