Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Biden's Big Threat to Russia: No Pipeline if Ukraine Invaded; Supreme Court Allows GOP Map in Alabama That May Hurt Black Voters; GA Prosecutor Investigating Trump: We're Not Playing Games; Pressure Mounts on CDC as States Drop School Mask Mandates. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 08, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It's Tuesday, February 8, and I'm Brianna Keilar with John Berman here in New York.

[06:00:06]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's great to have you here.

KEILAR: It's wonderful to be here.

And under way this morning, frantic diplomacy on two different continents as the world tries to avert a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Moments ago, French President Emmanuel Macron arrived in Kyiv, continuing his shuttle diplomacy efforts. Macron is meeting with President Zelensky a day after his face-to-face with Vladimir Putin in Moscow.

And on Monday, President Biden presented a united front with a key ally in Europe, issuing a big threat. He vowed to shut down a crucial gas pipeline if Russia invades.

Biden hosted German Chancellor Olaf Scholz at the White House, and despite the pledges of unity, the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline appears to be a key sticking point.

The 745-mile natural gas pipeline, which is built but not yet operational, bypasses Ukrainian transit infrastructure to deliver Russian gas directly to Germany. At their joint news conference, President Biden made clear where he stands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be -- there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But how will -- how will you do that, exactly, since the project and control of the project is within Germany's control?

BIDEN: We will -- I promise you we'll be able to do that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the thing about unity is it only counts if you're actually unified.

The German chancellor was much less clear on his intentions, refusing to explicitly mention the pipeline by name, and later in an interview with Jake Tapper he also refused to say it.

Instead, he reiterated that U.S. and Germany are on the same page and, despite the apparent disconnect on the gas pipeline, insisted that NATO's response will be unified if Russia invades.

Meanwhile, President Biden is warning Americans who are currently in Ukraine to leave now as tensions rise and Russia positions more troops very close to the Ukraine border.

CNN's Alexander Marquardt live in Kyiv with the very latest. This day two of the frantic diplomacy, Alex.

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. This furious show of diplomacy happening on both sides of the Atlantic. As you mentioned, President Macron of France has just landed in Kyiv. He's going to be meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart and really filling him in that marathon five-hour meeting that he had with Russian President Vladimir Putin yesterday in Moscow.

It does sound like some progress was made. Talk about security cooperation in Europe. Of course, that's a major priority for Putin to get some of those assurances.

We are hearing that Putin promised that Russian troops would withdraw from Belarus after exercises that are due to start later this week. That was far from a foregone conclusion, but Putin not putting any sort of date on that. Those troops in Belarus threatening Ukraine from the north.

John, as you mentioned, the NATO allies trying to show a united front, that they are in lock step, as President Joe Biden said. But it was clear in his press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz that there is some daylight.

The Germans, for example, have not been as aggressive in terms of sending lethal weaponry to Ukraine. They have refused to do so, while the U.S. is sending weapons. They have, in fact, blocked Estonia from sending lethal weaponry to Ukraine. Germany has just sent helmets.

And then on that serious, critical question about the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which runs from Russia to Germany. President Biden saying in no uncertain terms that that pipeline will not happen if Russia invades Ukraine.

The German chancellor, meanwhile, not disagreeing but not -- not saying it at all in so many words. So you do have this daylight between the allies and all of this as the pentagon now says there's more than well over 100,000 troops on Ukraine's various borders. U.S. officials saying that Russian forces are at around 70 percent of where they would need to be for a full-scale invasion. And that means, President Biden says, it is now time for U.S. Citizens to leave Ukraine. Take a listen.

BERMAN: All right, Alex, we don't have that sound there, but Joe Biden made clear yesterday, the president did make clear, that he does think the citizens, not embassy staff, but citizens who might be in Ukraine, he says it will be better for them to leave.

MARQUARDT: That's right, John. The diplomatic families and non- essential staff were already given the opportunity to leave Ukraine. The core diplomatic staff will continue in their mission here in Kyiv.

But President Biden saying that American citizens, who number in the thousands here in Ukraine, should go back -- should leave the country.

You know, we have also heard complaints, anger, from Ukrainian officials about what they call the alarmism of the Biden administration, talking about the imminence of a Russian attack. Ukrainian officials have really down played the prospect of that.

[06:05:14]

We will be hearing from the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, alongside the French president at a press conference later. And we're eager to hear what President Zelensky and the French president think about the prospects now of a Russian invasion -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Alex Marquardt in Kyiv. Keep us posted as these meetings continue this morning.

KEILAR: And joining us now is Reena Ninan, the host of "The Recount" daily podcast and the founder of Good Trouble Productions.

Reena, thank you so much for being with us. I think we're focusing a lot here on what Joe Biden said and whether this is really his red line to draw when it comes to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. What do you think about what you're hearing?

REENA NINAN, HOST, "THE RECOUNT": You know, the fact that we've seen Biden and the White House be very forward in the past few weeks about what is happening in Ukraine and with Russia, this is not a surprise. And I think they've been pretty aggressive in telegraphing that message.

You know, even though we were hearing people talk about some daylight between German chancellor and Biden, he was pretty forward in interviews, talking about how the Russians can't just put this calculation into a computer. This is his exact words. That there will be serious consequences if Russia goes into Ukraine.

I think a lot of people would have loved to have seen President Biden and the German chancellor come forward with a list of consequences if Russia goes through. That didn't happen. But I don't think that people should misconstrue that somehow, Germany wouldn't be in step with the U.S. going forward if Russia chooses to go in. BERMAN: Although it would have been significant for Chancellor Scholz

to out and out say Nord Stream 2 will be cancelled. He had that opportunity repeatedly, and he chose not to.

Listen, I also thought it was very interesting. Alex just reported this. And there's some new information on this this morning, where Vladimir Putin says that Russian troops will leave Belarus as soon as the joint exercises there are done.

Now, they're not saying when that will be. I suppose there could be ten years of joint exercises, but the idea that there is an end point and that Vladimir Putin is talking about it, how significant do you think that is?

NINAN: That's some 30,000 troops potentially there, John. So pretty significant.

But you also have to look around. Who are Putin's friends in this moment? You can tell a lot in diplomacy based on who's there for you in your time of need.

And it's hard to ignore, just hours before the opening Winter Olympics there's President Xi of China along with Russian President Putin and the two of them issued a 5,000-word joint statement, saying that they believe this is a moment for a new trend that's emerging in the redistribution of power.

This is such a big moment for Xi on the global stage, one that he wasn't sure was going to happen, was pushing for. And I think Putin has got to be careful if he goes in in the next few weeks and ruins this moment for China, because this is a country that has had his back over and over and over again.

KEILAR: Yes. And imagine how that would go down. It would be very bad for him, indeed. Reena, thank you so much.

NINAN: You bet.

BERMAN: So late yesterday, the Supreme Court allowed Alabama's new congressional map drawn by Republicans to remain in place. It comes after a lower court blocked the use of the map, saying that it discriminates against black voters.

CNN's Ariane de Vogue joins us now with the latest on this. This was a 5-4 decision, with Roberts siding with the more liberal judges.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT CORRESPONDENT: Right, absolutely. This court is going to allow maps drawn by Alabama Republicans to remain in place, even though a lower court said that the map violated the Voting Rights Act and likely diluted the voting power of black voters in this state.

That lower court had said, Look, there should be new maps drawn, and the new maps would have likely given the Democrats another seat in the House in the fall. But as you said, a 5-4 court stepped in last night, said that the

Republican maps could remain in place for now. And the justices said that they would hear oral arguments in this case next fall.

At the heart of this case is the scope of this key provision of the Voting Rights Act that's meant to protect minority voters. Alabama said that it had drawn lines using race-neutral criteria here.

But critics said that, look, there's 27 percent African-American voters in the state, and that should have been reflected in the maps.

Chief Justice John Roberts was in dissent here. He said that the lower court had followed Supreme Court precedent, so it shouldn't have been reversed.

But here's what's critical, John. Roberts, while he agreed that the maps shouldn't have been -- the new maps shouldn't have been able to be used, he said that this issue should be looked at next term. That's not a good sign for Democrats.

BERMAN: Ariane de Vogue, thank you very much.

So a CNN exclusive. The prosecutor investigating Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the election in Georgia answers questions for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you worried that former President Trump could somehow be able to avoid, delay, you know, what's going on with your investigation?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Her response and why she says she's not playing games.

Plus, it was a simple question about the 2020 election that Gov. Ron DeSantis refused to answer. Does he agree with Pence or Trump?

KEILAR: And the Houston Texans showing their new head coach some love. Who they just hired and what Brian Flores is saying is the reason behind it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: No delays and no games. That is from the Atlanta area district attorney who is investigating Donald Trump's 2020 election interference.

06:15:03]

Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis tells CNN that the probe launched last year in Georgia will not be delayed by the former president's games and threats. The grand jury will be seated, and the subpoenas are coming.

CNN's Sara Murray with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): The Atlanta-area district attorney investigating Donald Trump says as soon as she has a special grand jury seated in May, she'll start firing off subpoenas.

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY D.A.: Most of them will probably start to come in a heavier flow, for lack of a better word, in June and later months, but we will certainly start to do some in May.

MURRAY: Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis says she isn't worried about Trump working to slow her probe into his efforts to overturn Georgia's election results in 2020.

(on camera): Are you worried that former President Trump could somehow be able to avoid, delay, you know, what's going on with your investigation?

WILLIS: No.

MURRAY: Why is that? What gives you that confidence?

WILLIS: This is a criminal investigation. We're not here playing a game. I plan to use the power of the law.

We are all citizens. Mr. Trump, just as every other American citizen, is entitled to dignity. He's entitled to be treated fairly. He will be treated fairly in this jurisdiction, but I plan to do my job. And my job is to make sure that we get the evidence that gives us the truth. I'm not concerned at all about games to delay this.

MURRAY (voice-over): And she cast doubt on whether Trump's oft-used argument that he can't be prosecuted for actions while president will protect him in Georgia.

WILLIS: I don't think that that protection will prevent a prosecution if that becomes necessary in this state case.

MURRAY: Willis has already met with Trump's attorneys twice about her plans to move the investigation forward.

WILLIS: For instance, last calendar year, I met with them, and I assured them what I knew. We would not bring forth an indictment in the 2021 year.

I met with them at the very end of 2021 to tell them that I would be moving forward, not necessarily with an indictment, but with the next step of an investigation.

MURRAY: Willis launched her investigation nearly a year ago, after an hour-long recording went public of Trump pressing Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to find the votes for Trump to win Georgia.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via phone): All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.

MURRAY: Last month, in her request for a special grand jury, she told the court she had reasonable probability of criminal disruptions around the 2020 election.

WILLIS: When I had listened to that phone call, but also, I have the benefit of also having talked to a lot of witnesses and probably having read more on this than most people would like to.

MURRAY: She's digging into Trump's actions, as well as those of his allies, including former attorney Rudy Giuliani, former chief of staff Mark Meadows and South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, witnesses she may subpoena as part of her probe.

WILLIS: I imagine that we're going to be issuing subpoenas to a lot of people and that all of them are not going to welcome our invitation to come speak with us.

MURRAY: She hopes to make a charging decision by the end of 2022.

We sat down with Willis in an Atlanta hotel, as her office was under lockdown from a possible security threat at the Fulton County Courthouse.

Willis was already on high alert after Trump took aim at her and other prosecutors during a rally.

TRUMP: I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Atlanta.

MURRAY: After those comments, Willis asked the FBI for help assessing potential security deficiencies and sharing intelligence on potential threats.

WILLIS: I don't want to pretend like I didn't hear what I heard. You know, it would be just crazy for me to not pay attention to that. So I wanted to make sure that they were also paying attention.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Sara Murray for that report. Really interesting discussion there.

Joining us now, former U.S. attorney for the middle district of Georgia, Michael Moore.

Michael, great to see you this morning. So listening to the D.A., if you're Donald Trump and his legal team this morning, are you more or less nervous?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: I don't -- I don't really know that I'm more or less nervous. I think that I'm getting a timeline maybe for how this is going to drag out a little bit. I'm hearing things come up like presidential immunity and, you know, clear appellate arguments that are going to, in fact, I'm sure, be decided by an appellate court either in this state or at some point maybe making it to the U.S. Supreme Court.

So, you know, I'm sort of listening to her give out her game plan on how she moves forward. And that's -- that helps, obviously, the public have some idea. If you're a prosecutor, it lets them know about a significant case in your district or in your county, in this case.

But if you're a defendant, it also maybe lets you read the tea leaves a little bit on what to expect.

KEILAR: So you mentioned presidential immunity, which is something that Fani Willis addressed in this. Let's listen to what she said about whether Trump basically can't be prosecuted because he was president while he may have committed these offenses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Have you given any thought to or seen his defenses in other cases that, essentially, what you do as president is protected because you're the president, doesn't amount to a crime?

[06:20:09]

WILLIS: Of course, I've given thought to that that may be raised as a legal issue. I don't think that that protection will prevent a prosecution if that becomes necessary in this state case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think about what does that tell Trump?

MOORE: It tells him that, you know, people are already pondering what defenses are going to be raised.

Look, the reality is that this case is not going to be decided by a superior court judge sitting in Fulton County, Georgia. This case is going to be decided by appellate judges as the case moves forward. And I think you're going to see a concerted effort on the president's -- former president's part to block subpoenas, to delay, to raise issues up.

And remember that there's a judge sitting in charge of this grand jury, Judge McMurray, who's going to be dealing with some of these issues as they start about issues of subpoena, people who want to contest their appearances, this type of thing.

But ultimately those cases will move on up into the Georgia appellate courts, which are controlled, in large part, by -- by Republican- appointed judges. Good people, and I think they will do their best to be -- to listen to the evidence.

But you know, at the same time, I mean, that's just the reality of it. And so, you know, when you're already pondering possible defenses, I think that's a good thing. But also, if you're a defendant, I can assure you that the former president's legal team is also thinking about those and have been for some time. BERMAN: You know, Mike, we've talked a lot about process here. I'm

just curious. Based on the public evidence that exists -- and Brianna and I both, when we hear Donald Trump actually asking them to go find 11,000 votes, you know, a year and a half later, it's startling to hear that. I'm curious if you think, based on the public information out there, that you think there might be a case.

MOORE: You know, I think there is. I think there could be a very clear-cut case and a sort of a rifle shot approach to this. And that is to just move forward on a quick felony charge, using the phone call as the basis of that.

I will say this. I also think that there's some really interesting legal arguments around the tape and the admissibility of the tape based on who knew what and when about when it was being recorded, some statements that are also in the public record.

But even if that's not -- even if that is a problem and is not for some reason admitted, you still have the testimony of Raffensperger. Raffensperger has been all over the news media when this happened. I mean, he told everybody about what -- he wrote a book about it. And, you know, marketed for his book as he made appearances.

So he's -- we've got other statements from him that could be used in a prosecution. That's one of the reasons that I think a clear criminal grand jury would be easy.

What this tells me about what she's doing, is she's moving forward looking at conspiracy charges, possible RICO charges on other people. That's fine. And I think there's some validity to casting a wider net.

The thing you also have to be aware of as a prosecutor is sort of the wider the net, the more shots you make available by defense attack in appellate courts. And so if you are able to secure a conviction, then you've got to worry about whether or not a conviction would survive on appeal.

KEILAR: Yes. As you say, it won't be decided here. Michael Moore, great to see you this morning. Thank you.

MOORE: Good to be with you all. Thanks so much.

KEILAR: So what did the National Archives find when they had to retrieve 15 boxes of White House records from Mar-a-Lago? The items include love letters.

BERMAN: Plus, pressure mounting against the White House and CDC as more states drop mask mandates in schools.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:27:52]

KEILAR: As multiple states move toward lifting mask mandates in schools, pressure is mounting on the White House and the CDC to update their guidance on mask usage. CNN's Jacqueline Howard is joining us now with some new CNN reporting.

So where do we stand here, Jacqueline?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, what we're really seeing here are states outpacing the federal government and making plans to lift mask mandates and roll back some other mitigation measures.

We should have a list of states that have moved forward with setting a date on when some school mask mandates will be lifted. New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware, California and Oregon, as well.

And so, Brianna, for the latest on this, I did reach out to the CDC. The agency said it still recommends universal masking for all students and staff, regardless of their vaccination status.

When I asked the agency whether it plans to update that guidance, I was told this. Quote, "CDC continuously reviews data on the pandemic, as well as the latest science to identify when changes to guidance are recommended," end quote.

So you can see there, Brianna, the response was kind of vague. But some public health experts are calling for the CDC and the White House, at that matter, to update guidance, or at least release some clarity on when it is appropriate to lift mask mandates.

What metric should be used in that determination? Once your cases and hospitalization rates fall to a certain level, when is the right time to roll back measures? Without that clarity right now, some local school districts and states are really making these decisions on their own.

Here's CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen talking about this just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: While we're seeing states and locales take matters into their own hands, that means that the federal government is becoming less and less relevant. If the CDC guidance that they're putting out is now not being followed by virtually anyone, that makes the CDC and our federal public health authorities have less credibility. And so I really believe that they need to be changing their guidance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: So you see there, Brianna, she had some strong words for the White House. And right now, there is this waiting game to see if or when federal officials might release updated guidance, or at least some clarity on when to lift measures -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Jacqueline. Thank you so much.

[06:30:00]