Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Supreme Court Supports Alabama's Racial Gerrymandered Map; NFL's Goodell Meets With NAACP Amid Racial Bias Allegations. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired February 08, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Macron is meeting with Ukraine's President Zelensky. This is a day after his face to face with Vladimir in Moscow. And this morning the Kremlin now says Russian troops will be withdrawn from Belarus after joint military exercises. When is the after? We are not sure because according to a spokesman, there's no specific timeline for the withdraw.

All of this as President Biden is presented -- trying to present a united front with a key ally in Europe, and after issuing a big threat, vowing to shut down a crucial gas pipeline if Russia invades. Biden hosted German Chancellor Olaf Scholz at the White House, and despite the pledges of unity, the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline does appear to be a sticking point. They don't totally seem to be on the same page publicly here. The 745-mile pipeline, which is built but is not yet operational, connects Russia to Germany. Here's what President Biden said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be -- there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The German chancellor, though, would not say that out loud, at all. He refused to explicitly mention the pipeline by name. Instead, he reiterated the U.S. and Germany are on the same page. President Biden is also now advising U.S. citizens currently in Ukraine to leave immediately.

KEILAR: Joining us now is Jens Stoltenberg, NATO secretary general. Sir, thank you so much for being with us at such a crucial time here. Can you just give us overall a sense of how likely you think a Russian invasion is at this moment?

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: There is no certainty about what we see is a continued military buildup with more and more forces and also key enablers like military hospitals and logistics. So this is, the warning time is going down, and the risk for an attack is going up. And we also see the threatening rhetoric, the very strong rhetoric from Russia saying that we need to give into their demands. If not, there will be what they call military technical consequences.

And then, of course, we have the track record of Russia using force against Ukraine before. So if we put all that together, the military buildup, the threatening rhetoric, and the track record of Russia, of course, there is a real danger, but we continue to work for a political solution. It's possible to preserve peace, and that's exactly why we put so much energy from NATO side to find a political way forward.

KEILAR: You know the rhetoric, of course, that Russia uses here. They -- as they build up, they're looking at NATO, and they're saying NATO is building up. There needs to be a de-escalation, but it seems to be that they're putting that very much on you, on NATO.

STOLTENBERG: First of all, there is no doubt who is the aggressor. Russia has occupied part of Ukraine, Crimea, annexed that, and they control parts of eastern Ukraine, Donbas, through the separatists that they support and control. And then they have built up with more than 100,000 committed troops, very much advanced weapons systems, artillery, missiles, fighter jets, and so on, and the military buildup continues.

So what we have done is brought support to Ukraine, and Ukraine is the victim of aggression. And of course, Ukraine has the right to self- defense. That's enshrined in the U.N. Charter, and NATO allies provide Ukraine with help to uphold that right.

Then we have also made very clear that we are ready to protect and defend all NATO allies. Ukraine is a partner with broad support, but for NATO allies we have an absolute rock solid, unwavering security guarantee that an attack on one ally will trigger response from the whole alliance, and therefore welcome that they are now stepping up their presence in the eastern part of the alliance as a defensive message to send a clear signal.

KEILAR: So Mr. Secretary General, French officials, and I know you've seen this, they seem to be saying that Russia is moving toward a de- escalation. You do not seem to agree with that assessment at all.

STOLTENBERG: Well, I strongly believe that it is possible to find a political solution. I spoke with President Macron before he went to Moscow, and all NATO allies have agreed on the political platform, on political proposals that we have sent to Russia, and on this conversation, like arms control, missiles, transparency of nuclear activities, and other issues, and we are ready to sit down to listen to Russian concerns.

[08:05:06]

I have actually invited Russia for a series of meetings in the NATO- Russia counsel where we meet Russia and allies --

KEILAR: Sure, but I'm so sorry to interrupt, I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to be very clear, because French officials seem to be indicating that Russia is inclined to de-escalate or find this path towards de-escalation. And I just want to be clear, because it just doesn't sound like the assessments here are the same between what we're hearing from the French and what we're hearing from you as well as other NATO allies to France.

STOLTENBERG: Well, it's too early to say whether it is a will from the Russian side to sit down. We are ready to sit down, we are ready to listen to the concerns, and we also actually sent them a long list of topics, issues, areas where we think it's possible to find common ground.

For instance, on arms control, we have proven before that the west, NATO, can actually make real agreements with Russia, reducing the number of missiles, banning a whole category of missiles, intermediate range missiles. And there is possible to do that again. But then, of course, we need Russia to sit down and negotiate in good faith.

KEILAR: So, Macron is proposing that Ukraine get Finland status. Finland was granted neutral status during the Cold War. Do you see that happening, especially considering Russia doesn't sound super on board with that idea?

STOLTENBERG: Well, President Macron made it clear that, of course, he shares the positions and the views all NATO allies agreed not so long ago, as of a week ago, 10 days ago, when we sent over the proposals to Russia. So we have agreed common proposals on how to de-escalate and find a political solution to the conflict in and around Ukraine.

And both France and other allies made it clear we can speak about many things, but we cannot compromise on the right for every nation to decide its own path, including whether it wants to be part of an alliance of NATO or whether it wants to stay out of NATO. So that's for Ukraine to decide, whether it wants to aspire to membership in NATO or not, no one else.

KEILAR: But you heard the comments yesterday from President Biden, saying that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline would basically be kaput if Putin invades Ukraine. Germany, and Germany, of course, is the partner in that pipeline, would not go so far. The chancellor would not go so far. Do you need the German chancellor to be more publicly explicit about that?

STOLTENBERG: Well, I met, Olaf Scholz, the chancellor of Germany, recently, and in that meeting and in the press conference after he made it clear that all options are on the table when it comes to sanctions. And all allies agree that if Russia invades, there will be a high price to pay for Russia with economic sanctions. But also, the fact that our allies support Ukraine, enabling them to defend themselves, and also the fact that we are also increasing the military presence in the eastern part of the alliance as response to the aggressive actions of Russia. And this is something all allies agree on.

I think it just highlights the importance of that we are coordinated, also when it comes to sanctions, and all allies also realize that we need to diversify the supplies of energy, especially gas, because we cannot be vulnerable, not be too dependent on one supplier, Russia.

KEILAR: Sir, thank you. We really appreciate your perspective this morning. Secretary General of NATO Jens Stoltenberg, great to see you.

STOLTENBERG: Thank you.

BERMAN: Interesting to hear him say that the risk of the invasion are still going up, because we continue to hear that. And they can't go up forever. They can't go up forever. There is a limit to how much that can be.

KEILAR: Yes, we're in the window. When is the window closing, right? When is the window for an invasion closing?

BERMAN: It's interesting to see. I'm interested to see what happens in Kyiv today with Macron and Zelensky, I'm interested to see how the Russians react to that, a lot going on.

KEILAR: I'm also interested to see, it just seems like, and he's not saying, he's not criticizing Macron. But it seems like Macron is creating obviously a more rosy picture of his assessment of Russia than, say, the U.S. is or other allies. And at a certain point, you have to wonder where is Vladimir Putin perhaps playing the situation, driving a wedge, and does that help, does that help avoid an invasion?

[08:10:00]

BERMAN: Macron is sort of freelancing beyond NATO to an extent here. He was being diplomatic, hence, he is a diplomat.

KEILAR: He is a diplomat, yes.

BERMAN: Several states that were early adopters of mask mandates in schools now announcing that these mandates will soon come it an end. In New Jersey, Governor Phil Murphy announced an end to mandates for schools and childcare on March 7th. In Delaware, they will expire on March 31st. California's statewide indoor mask requirements will expire a week from today. In Oregon, it's also dropping its indoor mask mandate no later than March 31st.

We want to bring in Dr. Lucy McBride. She's a practicing internist and the author of a popular COVID newsletter, who has been advocating for this type of action now for some time. Dr. McBride, just make clear, what is different about where we are today than 18 months ago?

DR. LUCY MCBRIDE, AUTHOR OF POPULAR COVID-19 NEWSLETTER: John, thanks so much for asking that great question. In March, 2020, when we knew very little about the virus, it was all hands on deck. It was protect against COVID at all costs, right? We didn't know that there was such an enormous gradient -- difference in the risk that COVID presents to adults compared to children. We also then didn't have wonderful vaccines that are extraordinarily safe and effective and that take the claws and the fangs away from the virus and turn it into a more manageable illness.

We also didn't have the knowledge that we do now, that kids transmit the virus less than adults do. Last, we didn't know what we know now about how to protect our most vulnerable citizens. We vaccinate, we boost, we test when we're sick, we stay home when we're sick, and we ventilate buildings.

At this moment in the pandemic, which is really a watershed moment, COVID is not going away, it is here to stay. And as it recedes on a patchwork fashion throughout the country, it is really time to appropriately balance the risk of COVID-19 with the risk of the mitigation measures themselves as we head into a new chapter of the pandemic with a whole lot more data and tools to manage risk.

KEILAR: So when you look at the different risk factors -- as the parent of two small children who mask at school, I want to know when is it -- look, public policy proposal aside, that's the next step after this, when is it safe to say, you know what, this might be an OK time for kids to not have masks in the classroom?

MCBRIDE: It's a great question, Brianna, and I sympathize with parents who have little ones. My kids are teenagers and they're having a hard time with masks for social, emotional reasons. But for little ones, remember first of all, that the World Health Organization has never recommended masking kids under the age of five, and that's not because their anti-science or anti-mask. It's because there is no clear evidence today, there is no clear evidence that masking children in school in the real world makes a significant difference on transmission of virus. It's not to say that they can't work, it's just that we don't have abundant evidence.

So the question is a great one. When is it safe? At this point, you have to take the risk into consideration with your personal pediatrician. You have to think about what is your child's unique vulnerabilities? You have to think about the risk in general to healthy children, which is extremely low for severe outcomes. And you have to recognize the best way to protect kids is by vaccinating them, if that's appropriate for them, and then vaccinating the adults around them.

So the question isn't, is COVID ever going to go away, because it won't. It's really about balancing the risk and mitigating risk of COVID-19 and balancing their social, emotional learning needs by being unmasked. They need to see faces to learn language, to read. Our littlest learners are having a hard time with speech and language. And then kids who have English as a second language, kids with learning disabilities have having a hard time connecting with other people to be able to grow and develop as they should.

BERMAN: Dr. Lucy McBride, this is a key moment in this pandemic. And I think it is possible to say, you don't have to say we made a mistake -- it is not an admission of mistakes, necessarily, to say we're going to do something different going forward. It's an admission of where things stand now. So if people can get politics out of it, maybe they will make -- they will come to reasoned decisions.

Dr. Lucy McBride, thank you very much.

MCBRIDE: Thank you.

BERMAN: The Supreme Court just greenlit Alabama's new congressional map even though a lower court said it discriminates against black voters. And a big morning for movie lovers. The Oscar nominations are about to be announced. We'll tell you the big change to this year's Best Picture category.

And making history, Team USA figure skating star Nathan Chen breaks a world record. Did hitting the ice with John Berman more than 10 years ago set him on this path? I think we know the answer.

BERMAN: You won't believe what I told him there. I told him everything he needed to know.

[08:15:03]

KEILAR: You inspired him, clearly. You inspired him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: The Supreme Court in a 5-4 decision allowed a congressional map drawn by Alabama Republicans to remain in place after a lower court had ruled it had to be redrawn due to diluting the political power of black voters.

John Avlon with a "Reality Check".

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We need to talk about how black Alabama voters just got screwed by the Supreme Court. We have to take a step back. Democracy is supposed to be government of the people, by the people, for the people, as Lincoln said.

But the rigged system of redistricting going on right now is designed to undercut just that, because it's about politicians picking their people, not the opposite. And that leads directly to the division and dysfunction we see today. Now our elected representatives have a lot more incentives to work together if there were more competitive and really representative congressional districts.

But that's not happening by design. Let's dig into the data. So there are 31 states where maps have been finished and not dismissed by the courts. Just 22 congressional districts that are considered competitive according to the Brennan Center.

Ten years ago, double that number, 44 at this point in the cycle. 1992, there were 108 competitive districts. See a pattern?

Take a closer look at Texas, where state house Republicans drew lines to go from 12 competitive districts to just one.

[08:20:04]

Yeah, they really don't want to deal with close elections. And Democrats have been getting into the act as well. Take New York. They likely reduced the number of Republican seats from 8 to 4. And Republicans rightly point out this is unfair.

Democrats would control as many as 85 percent of the congressional seats, but don't comprise 85 percent of the registered voters. Now, Republicans are challenging this in court, but there will be more

convincing if the GOP hadn't consistently proposed this at the federal level. You reap what you sow.

Which brings us back to Alabama. Republicans there drew up congressional maps with a majority to safe 6-seat GOP majority to just one Democratic district to accommodate the state's black voters.

Let's do some math. African Americans make up around 27 percent of the population in Alabama, but we'll have just of the congressional seats. So, this caused a challenge under the Voting Rights Act, which was unanimously supported by a three-judge federal district court panel, who ordered them to redraw the maps ASAP. But the Supreme Court stepped in and smacked down that lower court decision by 5-4 vote with Chief Justice Roberts voting with the liberals on the court.

This is not a little surreal, because Roberts wrote an opinion saying the federal courts couldn't way in on state gerrymandering but it stings because of the brutal history of black voter suppression in the south. Not through legal means. So, for example, when Alabama state constitution was rewritten in 1901, the chairman of the state convention said it was their goal to, quote, establish white supremacy in this state. The time when African Americans made up 45 percent of Alabama's population.

Literacy taxes and took other steps to disenfranchise black voters and within two years, the number of registered black voters there plummeted from more than 180,000 in 1900 to just 3,000 two years later.

This practice continued until the civil rights movement of the 1960s. And that's essential to keep in mind when you listen to arguments like this from Alabama Congressman Mo Brooks who said, quote, these liberal activist judges have tried to segregate us based on race. We've got to put the skin pigmentation issue behind us.

Now, Brooks, a charter member of the sedition caucus, who's running for Senate, has been bellowing about a so-called war on whites for years. So, take with a grain of salt. There have been some victories for more balanced congressional maps in recent days, in Ohio, North Carolina, and those should be celebrated as evidence that reform can work.

But the frustration that Republicans are feeling now in New York is the same that Democrats are feeling in Texas and Alabama, and to fix the system we need to be driven by principle, more than partisan self- interest. Because what we have more competitive and truly representative districts, the only guarantee win is democracy itself. And that's your reality check.

BERMAN: It's good when democracy wins.

AVLON: We like that.

BERMAN: John Avlon, thank you very much.

The Houston Texans picks -- let's tart again.

KEILAR: Do it.

BERMAN: The Houston Texans pick a new head coach. Hear what former Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores, who is also up for the job, has to say about it.

Plus, we'll speak with someone who was inside a heated meeting with the NFL commissioner.

KEILAR: And President Biden pledged to fire staffers on the spot if he heard that they treated others with disrespect. On that note, someone just got the boot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:30]

KEILAR: NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell meeting with civil rights leaders amid concerns that the league and its teams are not doing enough to promote Black and minority coaches for head coaching opportunities. This meeting comes a week after former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores filed a lawsuit against the league and three of its franchises for alleged racial discrimination.

Joining us now is Derrick Johnson. He's the president of the NAACP. He attended that meeting with Commissioner Goodell.

Sir, thanks so much for being with us. Can you tell us how the meeting went?

DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: Well, I think it was a good meeting, a start. Everyone in the meeting understood the sense of urgency and the problem confronting us. The Rooney Rule has been in place for a long time and the measurement of that as it relates to head coaches, it has not been as effective as people thought it should be or would be.

We're looking now up until just a few days ago, only one African American coach in the league, African American coaches are as -- can be as successful as any other coach, but they have to be provided an opportunity. And up until this point, they have not been provided an opportunity.

BERMAN: Now, just in the last few days it is interesting because two coaches of color have been hired by teams including Lovie Smith with the Houston Texans, which was a job that Brian Flores interviewed for and he put out a statement on the hiring of Lovie Smith. Mr. Flores is happy to hear that the Texans have hired Black coach, as Mr. Flores' goal in bringing his case to provide real opportunities for Black and minority candidates. However, it is obvious that the only reason Mr. Flores was not selected was his decision to stand up for against racial inequality across the NFL.

And Brian Flores was here and he told, you know, he was doing this because he wanted change in the NFL. Maybe he's getting a little in the short term. But he also said he feared he may never coach again.

JOHHNSON: Well, unfortunately, when you have someone like Coach Flores who stand up for the rights of others, oftentimes they're black balled. We're advocating that he's not black balled. He's a very talented coach. And so he should be provided an opportunity as well as we should heed his lawsuit that we have a problem in the NFL.

The lack of diversity in the coaching ranks is untenable. We have 70 percent of the players on the field are African Americans. Many of these franchises are publicly financed.