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Trucker Protests Over Mandates Spread Beyond Canada Borders; White House Says Florida Measure Targets Kids Among the Most Vulnerable. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 09, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But for many, this is the new normal.

VIKTORIA MAKARA, BANK MANAGER: I don't want to flee. So I need to protect the city, my home, my family.

KILEY: Ukraine has expanded its military, but it's a long way behind Russia in military might. So it's taking the wrecked T-64 tanks from the 1960s and rebuilding them from the chassis up to rush to the front lines, much like Ukraine is trying to build and defend a democracy and a landscape much haunted by the Russian dominated Soviet Union.

Sam Kiley, CNN, Kharkiv.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, February 9th. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

This morning, the Senate minority leader breaking with the RNC, breaking with House Republican leadership, breaking with conservative commentators, blasting the censure of Congressman Adam Kinzinger and Congresswoman Liz Cheney for serving on the House select committee investigating the January 6th attack, and also taking the RNC to task for characterizing it as legitimate political discourse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) SENATE MINORITY LEADER: We're all, we're here. We saw what happened. It was a violent insurrection with the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Now, McConnell's rebuke puts him squarely at odds with the other top Republican in Congress, Kevin McCarthy, who defended the wording of the RNC's censure resolution.

BERMAN: Joining us now, political columnist at "The Bulwark," our friend Amanda Carpenter. Amanda, there are those who look at this and say, wow, the Senate minority leader is really breaking with the Republican National Committee, House leadership, as I said, people who say things on TV, and this is exposing rifts within the Republican Party. I'm not so sure you are as impressed.

AMANDA CARPENTER, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, "THE BULWARK": I am not. I'm going to need Mitch McConnell to break a little badder if he wants to be taken seriously when it comes to upholding our democracy. Here's the thing, Mitch McConnell, he chooses his words very carefully. He's been extremely consistent. He's not really saying anything different than he did when he refused to impeach Donald Trump for inciting the insurrection last year.

This is his game, right? He says -- he essentially wants to outsource any consequences to the Department of Justice. You tell me when Mitch McConnell is willing to impose any political consequences on Donald Trump for the insurrection, and then I might be willing to change my mind. But so far, he has been unwilling to support impeachment, he does not support the January 6th committee, and he still says he supports Donald Trump potentially as a 2024 nominee even as he promises pardons to the people who participated in the insurrection.

And so, there's no difference here. They're on the same page when it comes to no consequences for anyone. And that is why the RNC feels so emboldened to do this. There have been no consequences, and they want to keep it that way, right. The whole goal of this platform is to whitewash anyone who participated on any level in the insurrection of any kind of political responsibility because it was, quote, legitimate political discourse.

KEILAR: Berman, you mentioned Kevin McCarthy, who it turns out is, I mean, he's quite the power walker. Really, really good at power walking if we can watch this video. That is ABC's congressional correspondent asking him about January 6th. He says it is not good to ask questions in the hall of the Capitol, which is hilarious because that's everything that happens there. Nonetheless, Amanda, this is what he said about January 6th and our Manu Raju caught up with him.

BERMAN: There he is running away from Manu, too.

KEILAR: Yes, he is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The RNC resolution last week referred to the events of January 6th as a legitimate political discourse.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: That's not correct, what the RNC was talking about. They were talking about, everybody knows anybody who broke in and caused damage, that is not called for, those people, we've said from the very beginning, should be in jail. What they were talking about is the six RNC members who January 6th has subpoenaed who weren't even here who were in Florida that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:05:07]

KEILAR: No, they were not. No, they weren't. What did you think of what he said, Amanda?

CARPENTER: Well, this is why I think him and McConnell are on the same page. They want to draw a bright line around the people who physically trespassed the Capitol, assaulted police officers, and say, you know what, the Department of Justice can deal with them. Meanwhile, the official Republican elites, right, who did things like create phony slate of electors, who internally within the Trump administration pushed to overturn the election results in all kinds of different ways, they don't want anyone to look at that. That is the real problem that the January 6th committee poses. That is why Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are being censured. And they still all hold hands and adopt this party line, right. Nikki Haley on the Sunday shows, it's a problem because Republicans need to support Republicans no matter what. When it comes to an insurrection, you need to draw some lines.

BERMAN: Can I just throw one little wrinkle into this on McConnell, who absolutely did not support the bipartisan commission that was proposed, almost singlehandedly blocked it. But since this select committee has done some of its work and some of the revelations has come to light, McConnell has actually said he wants to see what they come up with. I can't remember how long, this was a month ago. Listen to this.

CARPENTER: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) SENATE MINORITY LEADER: I think the factfinding is interesting. We're all going to be watching it. It was a horrendous event, and I think that what they're seeking to find out is something the public needs to know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, he's talking about the committee as it is now, what they're seeking to find out, the public needs to know.

CARPENTER: Yes. But he's talking about it like he's just a passive bystander. This is a time when people like Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney could probably use some support, right. Wouldn't it mean something if Mitch McConnell said, you know what, they're doing a great job. They are Republicans, they absolutely should be not kicked out of the Republican Party. That talk needs to end. But this passive approach, let's see what they come up with and let's

see if maybe they have some criminal referrals, and we'll let the lawyers and the courts handle it, because Mitch McConnell has done nothing to handle this situation so far. That is the difference.

KEILAR: I want to change subjects to your column, a really interesting write you have in "The Bulwark" where you're talking about Mark Meadows, who, as you point out, is really the second highest level person besides Donald Trump involved in efforts to overturn the election. How are you seeing his role right now?

CARPENTER: Well, it is really interesting, because the hardest thing about looking at all the revelations that have come out surrounding the January 6th committee is keeping them all straight. We have the stories about voting machines and the ultimate slate of electors and ripping up pieces of paper. But the important thing to keep in mind is that all these lead to Trump. None of this happens without Trump. There is a lot going on in the Oval Office. And who is his right-hand man? Mark Meadows. Mark Meadows is the guy who was pushing a lot of the paper, and he has a long paper trail.

It's important to remember he did initially cooperate with the January 6th committee, turning over thousands of documents to his two separate Gmail accounts, his signal account, his cell phone. But after he turned over those documents, he wouldn't sit for a deposition. He doesn't want to talk about the information that was in there.

And he, when it comes to the most serious things that happened in the official, in his official role, they all landed at his desk. He was there for discussions about the alternate phony slate of electors. He was there for discussions about the seizure of voting machines. He was there on the phone call in which Donald Trump called the secretary of state in Georgia asking for the results to be altered. He made a surprise visit down to Georgia to investigate an audit for a local -- for a county finding.

And so he's one of three people, Pence, Steve Bannon, and Jeffrey Clark, they're the only ones who are facing contempt, right? Why is that? It is incredibly important that Donald Trump's right-hand man who is implicated in everything and refuses to talk about it. And so I think he's in a world of trouble. But we'll see how -- we'll have to see how this plays out. There is a long paper trail, more than 475 people have talked to the committee. So I am confident the story will come out.

BERMAN: Every time you say paper trail and January 6th committee, I wonder how much of that paper has been torn up, but that's another matter.

CARPENTER: Or eaten.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Amanda Carpenter, thank you very much. Always great to see you. KEILAR: This morning, the North Carolina State Board of Elections

says it does have the power to block GOP Congressman Madison Cawthorn from running for reelection over his role in the January 6th insurrection after a group of lawyers petitioned the state saying that he can't run under a constitutional provision that bars candidates from having supported an insurrection or rebellion or giving aid or comfort to those who do.

[08:10:08]

The group says that they could expand the challenges to others who whipped up crowds ahead of the Capitol attacks, all the way up to former President Trump.

Joining us now is Ron Fein, the legal director of the nonprofit Free Speech for People. He is co-lead council on this challenge against Congressman Cawthorn. Thank you so much for being with us. Just tell us what -- why you think this is a case that you can make?

REN FEIN, CO-LEAD COUNSEL ON CHALLENGE AGAINST CONGRESSMAN CAWTHORN: Thanks, Brianna. Free Speech for People filed this challenge against the candidacy of Madison Cawthorn on behalf of North Carolina voters because his role in helping to facilitate the January 6th insurrection triggered an essential provision that the Republican Congress added to the U.S. Constitution after the civil war. And that provision says that anyone who broke their oath, who support the Constitution, and then aided an insurrection, cannot be trusted with future public office because they pose a danger to the entire country.

KEILAR: So this is something that would be decided by officials in counties in Cawthorn's district. The appeal, though, would go to the state board of elects where it's three Democrats and two Republicans. Is it your expectation that you would succeed there?

FEIN: We think that the evidence points very strongly to Cawthorn being disqualified, and that the panel that conducts the hearing will find that, as will the state board of elections. And if Cawthorn chooses to appeal to the court system, that they would agree.

KEILAR: His lawyer says this rule, this law is unconstitutional. What do you say to that?

FEIN: Cawthorn filed a federal lawsuit to try and block the state proceedings because, according to Cawthorn, the normal North Carolina state proceedings for evaluating the qualifications of any candidate for office, whether it has to do with age or citizenship or anything else, violate his constitutional rights. It's unfortunate that I think Cawthorn probably didn't read the North Carolina election laws before he decided to run for office. I strongly suspect he didn't read the U.S. Constitution. But this is part of the process. If you run for office in North Carolina, you have to be prepared to stand up and explain why you are qualified for office.

KEILAR: Ron, you're trying it depose him. What do you want to ask him? FEIN: Well, I'm not going to give away the questions that we'll ask,

but the important thing is that the evidence that we have set forth already establishes enough of the basis that if Cawthorn isn't willing to come forward and meet his burden of showing that he is qualified for office, then we think that the state board of elections is obligated to find that he's disqualified and can't be on the ballot.

KEILAR: You think this would apply to a Trump candidacy in 2024 as well?

FEIN: Absolutely. And if Trump chooses to run again in 2024, we will file challenges like this in multiple states.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be watching, Ron, legal director of Free Speech for People. We appreciate you joining us.

FEIN: Thank you.

KEILAR: This isn't the end of this. I think the point is that probably this is going to keep going through the court system, and we'll have to see this really amorphous part of the Constitution, at least insofar as how it is applied to January 6th. Maybe we'll get some answers.

BERMAN: It is very interesting. There are legal scholars who will tell you that it is in the 14th Amendment, there is an avenue here. There are others who will tell you there is no way that this is going to happen. But there are others, too, who look at it and say there is no way, there's no mechanism.

The North Carolina case with Madison Cawthorn at least it allows the space for the intellectual discussion. There is a legitimate intellectual discussion about the 14th Amendment and what it all means, whether or not you think it's in any way realistic for any of this to happen. And this discussion is going to be had and litigated for real, for real, in North Carolina.

KEILAR: Yes, it's going to be very interesting. And this morning there is a major shift in New York's pandemic guidelines. That's about to be announced. Is it too soon, or is it about time? And how the mask anti-vaccine protest that is taking place across Canada is putting the U.S. supply chain in jeopardy.

BERMAN: And turning the tide overnight, Team USA just clinched its first, it took this long, its first Olympic gold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:21]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So this morning, tensions are rising over what's being called the freedom convoy, these trucker protests in Canada, that are clogging up U.S. supply chains or have the possibility of clogging up U.S. supply chains. What started as demonstrations against coronavirus restrictions, they have grown into a far right global movement, blocking the busiest international border crossing in North America.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is there, near the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit.

Miguel, why don't you tell us what you've been seeing?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, so we are on the U.S. side of the Ambassador Bridge. The U.S. is basically shut off access to the bridge until the Canadians are able to clear the protesters out. Right now the bridge is open. There is a trickle of traffic coming from the Canadian side to the U.S. side. We have been seeing a pretty steady stream of trucks and cars coming over this morning, so far. It has been like that since about noon yesterday. But it is nothing like they typically have.

The U.S. traffic is being told to go to other destinations. So up in Port Huron, an hour north of here, another bridge, but just too many trucks and too small a bridge right now, just a massive backlog of those trucks trying to get through Customs and across that smaller bridge.

For their part, the Windsor police right across the river from us are trying to deal with the protesters the best they can. Making arrests where they can, trying to engage them.

I want to read you what Windsor police put out about the protesters. We encourage the organizers of the demonstrations to maintain an open communication with Windsor police. Personnel are using reason and tempered approach to come to a peaceful resolution.

They are not moving in sort of in a heavy-handed fashion there.

[08:20:03]

They have been sort of dealing with them, the best they can. And it is worth pointing out, while there are some truckers who are involved in the protest here, much of that was in Ottawa, the capital. There may be some truckers here.

But many are their personal vehicles, small pickup trucks, personal cars and they are blocking access to the bridge. So until it is open entirely on the other side, the U.S. will not open this side of it.

It is a very important point -- port, over $300 million in goods comes across this bridge every day. So they want to get it open, it is going to take some time, but for right now it is a real pain, especially commercial traffic, trying to get through other means and other crossings -- John.

BERMAN: Miguel, you told me that last night, I found it very interesting, it is not just truckers. It is a mistake to say it is just truckers blocking this bridge right now.

So, who else is it? Is there any sense of who the conglomerate of protesters are at this point?

MARQUEZ: Look, there is a wide callout for people for essentially reinforcements to come to this area to help them because they have been out there all day and all night. These protesters.

Remember, this all started beginning of January. Then developed -- moved into Ottawa with the truckers strike there and with all the horns blaring and the like in Ottawa and then in Windsor now, just across the river from us, it is a whole other group of protesters who are sort of moving in. These are people from probably many areas of Canada coming in to this area to what they believe is to stand up for freedom.

Police are trying to let them have their demonstration. But also keep those traffic lanes open. They're being somewhat successful, but I think in the days and hours ahead, they're going to try to be even more successful at getting those lanes open -- John.

BERMAN: Miguel Marquez, great to have you there. Nice talking to you this morning.

President Biden coming out swinging against Florida's controversial "don't say gay" bill. How Governor DeSantis is now responding.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And Joe Rogan says the backlash over his use of the "N" word is a political hit job. Really? CNN's Don Lemon here to weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:13]

KEILAR: The White House condemning Florida Republicans for advancing what is known as the "don't say gay" bill. If signed into law, the measure would ban talk about gender and sexuality in the state's classrooms, in the primary grades. The Biden administration says the measure targets some kids who need the most support.

CNN's Steve Contorno is live for us in St. Petersburg, Florida, with more on this.

Tell us about this bill, Steve.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Brianna, this bill is gaining momentum on the floor of the Florida legislature, passing a Senate committee yesterday, prompting the White House to respond for the first time, kind of taking an unusual step and weighing in on a state legislative bill. We saw a statement from the White House.

We saw Press Secretary Jen Psaki address it from the press briefing room yesterday and last night, President Joe Biden actually weighing in directly on Twitter, writing on the social media website: I want every member of the LGBTQI community, especially the kids who will be impacted by this hateful bill, to know that you are loved and accepted just as you are. I have your back. And my administration will continue to fight for the protections and safety you deserve.

Now, this comes after Governor Ron DeSantis also weighed in on the bill for the first time, expressing support for really what the bill is trying to accomplish, saying it is entirely inappropriate for classrooms to be having conversations about gender and sexual orientation. Now the governor also acknowledged he doesn't think this is part of curriculum, really anywhere in Florida, in many places, which, Brianna, is a point that LGBTQ advocates make as well.

KEILAR: Steve, thank you so much for that report and explaining that to us. We appreciate it.

Joining us now is Don Lemon, the host of CNN's "DON LEMON TONIGHT" and, of course, the author of "This is the Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism".

You break our set. Did you hear that loud clanging during Steve's report?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, "DON LEMON TONIGHT": That was not me. I'll take the blame for it.

KEILAR: All right. Very good. Very good.

Tell -- what do you think about this bill and the message too that it sends?

LEMON: That kids who are part of the LGBTQ plus community are somehow other and they are deemed to be discussed, however you feel there is something wrong or different about them, which kids are -- you have kids, you know how kids -- they feel different anyway, right? They have issues or they feel like they don't quite live up to what the other kids are saying about them or even their parents' expectations.

But the issue here is that you have members of the LGBTQ community harming themselves, even at young ages, and I think this bill only exacerbates the situation. I think it should be about inclusion. I think about my friends who have kids, same sex couples, both men and women, and I want to have kids as well with my partner. I think if I had a kid, if I'm going to, you know, would I be okay with them not wanting to be able to say the word gay or discuss quite frankly something that is normal and natural in nature, I don't understand -- I don't understand it.

BERMAN: That point you made, right there, just think about this, this law, which has deliberately ambiguous language, this bill, I should say, it doesn't address -- what happens when your child, which I can't wait, one day for that to happen, Don, goes to school, if you move to Florida, would your kid not be able to say I have two daddies?

LEMON: Yeah.

BERMAN: Would they not be able to discuss that? Would you not be able to come in to school bake sales because that might cause people to have discussions?

LEMON: I think -- well, it is said in this bill that same sex parents can be part of the discussion. They're just saying that it can't be part of the curriculum.