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Kamila Valieva Falls, Finishes Falls, Finishes 4th in Figure Skating Final; Secretary of State Antony Blinken Indicates Russia May Use False Reports to Justify Invasion of Ukraine; Sen. Ben Cardin (D- MD) Interviewed on Possible U.S. Responses to Russian Invasion of Ukraine. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 18, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This as President Biden said that Russia could invade within the next several days. This afternoon he will speak to global allies about the Russian troop buildup and how to deter it.

Moments ago Vice President Kamala Harris emerged from a meeting with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg in Munich and is now preparing to meet with more than a dozen heads of state this weekend, all in an effort to somehow thwart this expected now, expected Russian incursion.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: So, that is starting to look perhaps less and less likely. Moments ago, Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters that both NATO and the European Union are not prepared to fully uphold security guarantees, obviously trying to shift some of the responsibility here away from Russia towards the west. Ukraine says there have already been 20 violations of the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine today so far, that its forces have suffered two casualties as a result of enemy fire along the front lines.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Live to Kyiv to bring in CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward. Clarissa, a lot of new information this morning, and you have been to and from already what might be the biggest hot spot, the most tense area in the entire nation.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, John, these front lines between the Ukrainian military and Russian-backed separatists in the far east of the country have been largely frozen for years. The war has been going on for eight years, but they have been largely frozen. Up until really the last couple of days, where we started to see a major uptick, particularly yesterday, heavy shelling in one town, Stanytsia Luhanska, the Ukrainian military took us there, in dark, which is very unusual for them, because they wanted to show the world what has been happening. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WARD: The Ukrainian military has brought us nearly 400 miles towards the front lines in the east of the country. It is already dark by the time we land. We only have a short time on the ground, but they are determined to show us the aftermath of heavy shelling earlier in the day.

This kindergarten is less than three miles from the so-called line of contact, the front line. And witnesses in this area said that around 8:00 or 9:00 this morning, they started to hear shelling. It was loud enough that they could hear the whistle of the shells going by, and two of them landed here at this kindergarten. Let's take a look.

At the end of the hallway, this is what remains of the playroom. The military says the first shell hit at 8:45. Mercifully, the children were eating breakfast in another part of the building. Teacher Yulia Semenenko tells me she immediately rushed them into the hallway, away from the windows.

So she's saying in that moment she was only really afraid for the children.

I ask her how they reacted to the situation. "Our youngest children thought it was all a game at first, and we let them pretend, she tells us. "Our older children understood what was happening and they were afraid."

Video released by Ukrainian police shows the kids being hastily evacuated from the building.

Obviously, it is very dark here. I'm not sure if you can see, but this is actually a children's playground. And if you just turn over here, you can see this is a crater, and the local authorities are telling us that this is where the other shell hit.

Our time on the ground is restricted. Fighting usually begins after dark here. As we finish up a live shot, our Ukrainian minders grow nervous.

Yes, I hear it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

WARD: John, please excuse me, but our Ukrainian military minders are asking us to move because of that shelling. So we will check in with you as soon as we can. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

WARD: Let's go.

On an average day there might be three or four major ceasefire violations around here. Today, the military says there have been more than 30.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, guys.

WARD: They're telling us we have to go now. It is a steady stream of artillery that we can hear in the distance, so we're getting on to the bus to leave. In the hours after we leave, another shell hits a house in the same

town as this front line continues to heat up at a time when calm is desperately needed.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WARD (on camera): Now, I should say, John, that people in those separatist areas have also been reporting an uptick in shelling coming into their areas from the Ukrainian side. CNN hasn't been able to independently confirm those claims. But what this escalation really amounts to, or what the concern is, is that it could provide some kind of a pretext for President Putin then to launch some kind of military intervention -- we don't know what that might look like -- to protect people in those separatist areas, many of whom, roughly 600,000 of whom, carry Russian passports. John, Brianna?

[08:05:07]

BERMAN: Clarissa, speaking to you just a few hours ago and again this morning, one of the thing I'm left with is that you think this feels different and decidedly looks different than it has. Yes, this has been going on for eight years, but now they entered a new phase. One of the questions has been, well, if Vladimir Putin doesn't invade further today, maybe he just keeps this posture up for weeks if not months. But this level of tension, this level of violence, how sustainable is that?

WARD: This is always the worry, right? It may be that President Putin has already achieved his objective, that he's already destabilizing Ukraine simply by having tensions at this level. But once you have significant activity taking place on front lines that, as I mentioned before, have been largely quiet for many years now, you are dramatically escalating the possibility that this could devolve into something very, very different. And that's why this is such a dangerous inflexion point, and that's why it does feel a little bit different.

I don't want to overstate it, John. There have been ceasefire violations on a daily basis for some time. We visited the front line before just a couple of weeks ago, and we heard a grenade land about 200, 300 feet away from us. But it was right on the front line. This is slightly different, or it felt slightly different from my perspective as a journalist on the ground, nearly three miles away from the front line, hitting a kindergarten, also hitting a house. I don't want to try to imply that those were specifically targeted as civilian structures, but certainly it does raise the specter, as I mentioned before, of things getting out of control, and that's the real fear here, John.

BERMAN: When Ukraine knows that the Russians could be plotting a false flag incident, a fake incident that would require Russia to respond in theory, does this put even more pressure on Ukraine to show restraint? How did they try to thread that needle?

WARD: So Russia is very well known for implementing something called "provokatsii," right, provocations, which then draw people into a bloody conflict. And so, yes, now Ukraine is put in a situation where they're seeing shells landing on civilian structures, like kindergartens. How do they respond? If they respond forcefully, they very much run the risk of falling into the plans, potentially, of the Russian side. And so that makes it very difficult because they also have to defend themselves.

So, it becomes very complex to know how to respond for Ukrainian forces in that situation, and even more so because those entire areas by the front lines under the Minsk accords, which were these sort of peace agreements to help stop the violence on those front lines, are supposed to be quiet. There are not supposed to be heavy weapons used there as all. There are supposed to be pulled right back. And so you get into a situation where that could quickly be jeopardized, potentially, John.

BERMAN: Clarissa Ward taking us to the front lines and back again. Thank you so much for that report.

KEILAR: Secretary of State Tony Blinken warned the United Nations yesterday that Russia might justify military action against Ukraine with a staged attack. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It could be a fabricated, so-called terrorist bombing inside Russia, the invented discovery of the mass grave, a staged drone strike against civilians, or a fake, even a real attack using chemical weapons. Russia may describe this event as ethnic cleansing, or a genocide, making a mockery of a concept that we in this chamber do not take lightly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland. He serves on the Foreign Relations Committee. He's also the chair of the commission on security and cooperation in Europe. Sir, thank you so much for being with us. I just wonder, you saw this report from our Clarissa Ward about this shelling of this kindergarten. What are your thoughts on that?

SEN. BEN CARDIN, (D-MD): Well, Brianna, it is an extremely dangerous situation. We now see the provocations being instituted by Russia. We know the troop levels that are on the border that could easily incur into Ukraine at any time. We know Mr. Putin's desires. We have U.S. intelligence and global intelligence to show he is determined to do something in regards to the independence of Ukraine. It is an extremely dangerous situation. We have seen this play out before in Georgia, where Russia's provocation was used as justification for taking over territory in Georgia. So this playbook we have seen before is an extremely dangerous situation.

KEILAR: Do you think we could see an invasion this weekend?

CARDIN: I think you could see an invasion at any time. The -- everything is in place for that to happen.

[08:10:00]

The decision is one person, Mr. Putin, he may have already made a decision. We just don't know that. But clearly at any moment there could be an invasion into Ukraine.

KEILAR: The question will be how far does he go, right, if he does go in. Does he stay in the Russian-speaking area in Donbas, does he go to Kyiv? What is your read right now on that?

CARDIN: Well, we have tried to reinforce the Ukrainian ability to defend itself. We know the Ukrainian people will fight to preserve the sovereignty of their country. Russia will pay a very heavy price in regards to this incursion on the ground.

In addition, the United States is leading the west and our allies in the extreme sanctions against Russian economy, if they incur, in addition individual sanctions against players in Russia. I think that all goes into the equation at first as to whether they will invade, and if they do, how far they go. Militarily they have the capacity to cause a lot of damage in Ukraine.

KEILAR: So do you think that he might go all the way to Kyiv?

CARDIN: We know that is certainly a possibility. It is certainly in the intelligence that we have looked at, that has been released. We know that Mr. Putin's desire is to bring down the government in Kyiv, and that could very well be by physically incurring into Kyiv itself.

KEILAR: There is a disagreement between Democrats and Republicans in the Senate on timing of sanctions. Do you pull the trigger before Putin invades, or do you wait until after? Democrats falling into the latter category largely. Why? Why not do something now to show strength? What are the concerns that that might do or not do?

CARDIN: Brianna, let me just respond in a slightly different way. There is unity among Democrats and Republicans, the House, the Senate, the Congress, and the White House on our resolve against Mr. Putin if he incurs into Ukraine. So there is strong support for unified position in this country to stand up to this attack on the security of Europe.

Yes, there is some of us who say that Russia has already violated many commitments and already additional sanctions should imposed. If we do that, the president could then have additional leverage to use diplomacy to try to avoid the military incursions. So there is just a really more of a strategic difference as to the timing, more so than our resolve to stand up against Mr. Putin's aggression.

KEILAR: We heard the secretary of state talking about Russia using false pretenses to start a potential war here. You've already seen some indications. Putin has said that Ukraine is carrying out genocide again Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine. Russian authorities have launched investigations into allegations of mass graves of Russian speakers. What does that tell you?

CARDIN: That's Mr. Putin's playbook. We have seen that before, propaganda and lies. He says it all the time. He's done it over and over and over again. He has an asymmetric arsenal in the attempts to bring down sovereign states such as Ukraine. So it's totally false, but he does that in order to justify to his constituency that what he's doing is to protect the security of Russians or Russia itself. It's absolutely false, it's fabricated. It's part of a strategy to show why Russia is incurring and trying to bring down the Ukrainian government.

KEILAR: And it is false, the claims of genocide, but really quickly, Senator, if I could ask you. Can you imagine a situation where Putin is making a claim of genocide and then he chooses in the to invade Ukraine?

CARDIN: Well, I think he makes his own judgments as to these types of things. But let's be clear, if he does invade Ukraine, it will cause significant harm. People are going to lose their lives, including Russians. It's going to cause severe consequences to the Russian people. So I think he has to put that into the equation.

But he's carrying out what would normally be his playbook in order to try to take over the sovereignty of Ukraine. So, as I said earlier, it's extremely dangerous. We really are talking about the security future of Europe. Sovereign countries should be able to make their own decisions. We can't be bullied by Mr. Putin, and we can't let him affect the security of Europe, which affects the security of our country.

KEILAR: Senator Cardin, thank you for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

From Gold Medal favorite to a symbol of a tainted Olympics, after a disappointing final routine, where does Russian skating star Kamila Valieva go from here?

And California Governor Gavin Newsom unveiling his plan to transition the state from the pandemic into the endemic phase.

[08:15:03]

And how winning the Super Bowl was the second best thing that happened to Rams receiver Van Jefferson on Sunday. He joins us live to talk about the dramatic day, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: After a week of controversy, Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva ended her Olympic campaign with a disappointing fourth place finish. The one time favorite fell, multiple times, in her final skate, visibly upset with her routine.

The performance overshadowed by the doping scandal that had many wondering why she was allowed to compete at all.

Joining me now, national political enterprise reporter for "The Washington Post," Robert Samuels. He's been covering the Olympic figure skating competition for "The Post". Robert, you'll forgive me, I want to read to you what Valieva's coach

said after she came on to the ice, the cameras caught her saying this, it was: Why did you let it go? Why did you stop fighting? Explain. You let it go after that axel.

This was after a 15-year-old fell multiple times, the entire world watching her. And as a human being, I was seeing that, thinking to myself, what a monster, what kind of a monster says that? How is that indicative of the situation here?

[08:20:02]

ROBERT SAMUELS, NATIONAL POLITICAL ENTEPRISE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, Eteri Tutberidze is one of the most successful figure skating coaches of all time. And she is known for having a training program that is rigorous, and sometimes people might think even a little bit abusive.

And so what we saw her communicate to her protege, Kamila Valieva, yesterday was a disappointment because her skaters are known to go out in the toughest competitions and perform competitively and perform well. So what she saw yesterday was quite shocking to her and quite shocking to the world.

BERMAN: What were you thinking during the performance as Valieva kept on falling?

SAMUELS: As a person who has watched this sport for more than 30 years, all I could think of is how this sport has lost its way. Here you had a 15-year-old girl, with the entire world watching, under such scrutiny, not doing something well and not doing it in the way that we know she loves how to do it.

When she left the ice, her teammate who won the silver medal was crying because she did not win gold, her -- another teammate won the gold medal, sat there alone, stood there alone with no one to comfort her, no one to congratulate her and it felt like an entire mess, a dark cloud had been cast over this entire competition because appropriate measures were not taken after this positive doping test.

BERMAN: Every time she fell, I found myself feeling they did this to her. They did this to her and that includes however those drugs got into her system, whoever helped get them there, but also this process that allowed her to get on to the ice. They all did this to her.

SAMUELS: I mean, what is the fair thing to do for a 15-year-old girl? What did it do for the sport? I think these are some of the questions that we need to be asking.

But the other thing I think that is important to ponder as we think about the situation is that why did it affect so many skaters? We know that because there were rules and governing bodies and agencies that were not communicating, that had different policies, and all tried to compensate or make up for some sort of injustice they saw in another agency. And at the end of the day, what you had was a competition that aside

from Valieva's performance, would have been one of the great Olympic competitions. But it will never be seen that way because of what they decided to do and what they decided not to do.

BERMAN: I spent a few years back about ten years ago close to figure skating for a while, covering different events. And I came away thinking, there is too much pressure here. I could never take being part of this world, I think it is even worse now and you were asking the question during it and after, you know, what has become of this sport?

SAMUELS: Absolutely. I think the pressure is a part of the sport. I mean, that's one of the things. You have to have the mental fortitude and the physical strength to actually go out in front of thousands of people and skate on an eighth of an inch of a blade on a sheet of cold ice, wearing practically nothing.

What this competition calls into question are how the rules are played, who is being able to participate, is 15 years old too young for a competition of this intensity? And what more can be done to help protect the people who are competing to make sure that at the end of the day, it is just a sport, medals are just hardware, and the competition can happen with joy and love and good type of drama that people usually expect from figure skating.

BERMAN: You know what, the coach could have said that to her when she came off the ice. It is just a piece of medal. I hope you had fun.

But that's not what she said. Robert Samuels, you're asking all the right questions. I appreciate you being with us and your reporting. Thank you.

SAMUELS: No problem.

BERMAN: With mask mandates being lifted all over the country, how comfortable should you feel about taking off your mask? We're going to ask an expert, next.

KEILAR: And should these winter storms sweeping across the country make you rethink your weekend plans? We have the forecast.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:33]

KEILAR: California, the most populous state in the country, unveiling its plan for next phase of the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: What we're announcing here today is about turning a page. Moving from this crisis mentality, moving from a reactive framework, to a framework where we are more set in our approach, that we stand firm and confident as we lean into the future, moving away from a reactive mindset and crisis mindset, to living with this virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now is Dr. Ali Khan. He's the dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.

Thank you so much, Doctor, for being with us.

I think first, let's talk about masking and where and when you think it is safe for adults and children to begin dropping masks inside.

DR. ALI KHAN, DEAN, COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER: Good morning, Brianna. So if you're fully boosted, that means you've completed a three-dose series, then you can be comfortable dropping your mask based on your personal risk level, how much risk you're willing to take and what the risk in the community looks like.

I personally will probably wait until cases get down to moderate levels within my community. Right now across the United States, I think except for Maryland, everybody is high. I would wait a little bit before I released my own mask.

But, again, I'm talking about people that are fully boosted. The release of all these mask mandates is going to be most problematic for those that are unvaccinated or undervaccinated. They will likely have a rebound of disease within.