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Jury Deliberating in Hate Crimes Trial of Ahmaud Arbery's Killers; How Americans Feel About Russia-Ukraine Crisis; Trial Set to Begin for Ohio Doctor Accused of Killing 14 Patients. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 22, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:33:39]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Day two of jury deliberations in the federal hate crimes trial of three men already convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery. Jurors met for a couple of hours Monday after getting the case following closing arguments.

CNN's Nadia Romero live in Brunswick, Georgia, with the latest here. Very emotional final hours in court, Nadia.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, John. Good morning. And that's what it's been like for this trial and the previous state trial as well. Very emotional for all the parties involved. And really the world because many people saw that viral video of the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. So, so many people have been watching.

Well, at about 9:00, that's when the jury will come back to the courthouse behind me to begin their deliberations for day two. And before they were dismissed by the judge last night, they were given very strict instructions. They can't talk to themselves about the trial that's going on, they can't talk to anyone else. They're not supposed to look on social media or do any independent research until they come back to the courthouse and convene again.

And that's why those closing arguments by the prosecution and the defense were so important. Their last-ditch effort to convince the jury to see this case their way. The prosecution says that all three defendants were fixated on race. That they used racial slurs throughout their text messages and social media posts, and during those one-on-one conversations with those 20 witnesses the prosecution brought forth. And they want the jury to believe that this is all about race.

[07:35:01]

Well, the defense says the men were simply fixated on stopping crime in their neighborhood. That they believe that Ahmaud Arbery was the person responsible for stealing things out of their vehicles and from a home under construction. And that's why they went after him. They say they were simply trying to do a citizen's arrest but it turned violent and they were forced to kill him in self-defense. Now there were two times yesterday when Ahmaud Arbery's mother became

visibly upset, emotional in the courtroom. The first time was during the closing arguments of one of the defense attorneys as she says he misled the jury saying that her son attacked one of the defendants. But she says that's just not true. We all saw the video. Her son was fleeing for his life. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANDA COOPER-JONES, AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER: Ahmaud had been chased down for like five minutes. And when Ahmaud turned to Travis, when Ahmaud turned to Travis, Travis had already that shotgun pulled toward him. So very emotional. This has been very draining. And I'm thankful that it's almost over.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: And the second time she became emotional was when the prosecution was doing the rebuttal and they used some of the racial slurs that the men had used in their own posts, using their own words against them. That was the second time she became emotional, started crying in the courtroom.

John, this has been so emotional because tomorrow marks two years since the killing of Ahmaud Arbery and we could have a verdict at any moment -- John.

BERMAN: Nadia Romero, thank you for being there for us.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And joining me now to discuss CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Joey, what do you think about how this trial has gone?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, good morning to you, Brianna and John. I think it's been very compelling. It's certainly been, to Nadia Romero's excellent reporting, very emotional. There were terms that were used by these defendants that were quite disparaging, quite demeaning, quite dehumanizing, and that those were thrown at the jury.

You know, with regard to telling the jury who these defendants were, who these defendants are, the language that they use, the thoughts that they carry, the perceptions and opinions they have of people of color, that was something that was very important in this case, Brianna and John. Why? Because unlike the state case where there was just the demonstration, right, of the actual act of violence, the kidnapping, et cetera, here in the actual federal case, you have to demonstrate what we lawyers call racial animus, racial hatred, racial motivation.

And because of that, prosecutors were necessitated, right, to use all of this colorful language to demonstrate to the jury that there's a connection, a nexus between what these defendants had said and done in the past and what they did here. And so I think they did it in a compelling fashion as John indicated. The jury has been out, right, since yesterday. About two and a half hours or so. They'll be back at 9:00 a.m. this morning and we'll see how they piece together, that is the jury, the evidence that they have so far to render a conclusion that's fair, just and appropriate.

BERMAN: Yes. It's interesting because the prosecution made a compelling case, presented a lot of evidence that these defendants are racist, but the bar is that the crime had to be committed with, as you say, racial animus because the victim was black. And one of the things the prosecution had to do was say, had Ahmaud Arbery been white, he would not be dead, right?

JACKSON: Yes. That's exactly right, John. And so the defense has been trying to disconnect, trying to really say that the dots don't match and trying to indicate that simply because someone harbors racial views, racial animus, has used colorful language, has been disparaging, has really said and done, you know, things that may be off color, inappropriate, that has no connection here.

The defense has said that the real value and the real -- you know, what they were trying to do, that is the defendants here, was simply protect their neighborhood out of concern that Ahmaud Arbery was the person who had been engaging in these break-ins at the construction site and had been doing things that were perilous to the neighborhood. However, although they have said that, that is the defense, I think certainly the prosecution has in many ways connected the dots, has indicated that this racial animus and racial hatred is the thing that motivated them to do it.

You heard in closing arguments and in opening arguments in large measure the prosecution indicating that this was about pent-up racial anger. It was about racial hatred. It was about racial motivation which ended in an African-American man dying and had he been white he would be home, their words, not mine, for dinner or supper that evening.

KEILAR: Yes. It was stunning what we learned in this trial, what they said. The things that had been in their heart over time when it came to black people and the fact that they used the N word over and over again in very racialized and even violent language.

Joey, thank you so much for walking us through that. Really appreciate it.

[07:30:02]

JACKSON: As always, Brianna. Thank you. Take care.

KEILAR: All eyes on eastern Ukraine after Vladimir Putin ordered troops to enter two parts of the eastern part of the country there. How do Americans, though, feel about the situation?

BERMAN: Michigan head coach Juwan Howard learning his fate for striking an opposing coach. We'll tell you the punishment coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We are following every development of the breaking news in Ukraine. Russian-leader Vladimir Putin has ordered troops into Ukraine. So far the White House response has been somewhat measured. Why? CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten might have an explanation here.

Harry, this has to do with U.S. public opinion on the situation there.

[07:45:02]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA CORRESPONDENT: It does. I mean, look, we obviously know that leaders are looking at this. Negotiations around Russia and Ukraine, what should the U.S. do? The majority, 53 percent, say stay out. Do not get involved in the negotiations. Now close by is 43 percent who say support the Ukraine. And then you get this 4 percent who say support Russia. But the clear majority opinion on this is stay out. They do not want the U.S. to get involved in these negotiations.

BERMAN: Stay out. That's a pretty stark number there. Don't even get involved there. Sending troops which the United States, Joe Biden said the United States simply will not do. Where does that rate right now?

ENTEN: So there are two different ways we can sort of ask this, right? Should we send troops to the Ukraine if Russia invades or could we send them to Eastern European NATO countries? Now, when it comes to sending troops to the Ukraine if Russia invades, again, the clear majority opinion is no. They do not want this. Americans do not want that. 57 percent say no. Just a third of Americans say yes at 32 percent.

Now when it comes to Eastern European NATO countries, do you support that? The majority opinion there is yes. With 54 percent to 36 percent saying no. So it's essentially you can help protect the interest of American allies involved in NATO, but when it comes to basically going in and fighting Russian troops in the Ukraine, the clear majority opinion is no at 57 percent.

BERMAN: To be clear that bottom line there is off the table anyway. It's not going to happen. But there is a little bit of support, marginal support, for the top option now. What do Americans think about where this is headed?

ENTEN: Right. And I think this is important because, you know, it would be one thing if U.S. -- if Americans did not think we were going -- that Russia was going to go to war and they were saying, we don't want folks involved but they really didn't view Russia in a way that they could go to war. But the minds of the American public is they do think that the tensions will lead to war. 55 percent say yes, 30 percent say no.

So everything we've just seen and sort of this apprehension of going in there, all that keep in mind people -- all those opinions even though they think it's going to war.

BERMAN: To be clear, 55 percent thought that Russia would invade, thought they would go to war, but still 53 percent said the United States should stay out. I think that's really important. How do Americans view the Russian threat overall?

ENTEN: The majority believe it's some sort of a threat, right, 26 percent say a major threat, 33 percent say a minor threat, that adds up just south of 60 percent. But only 26 percent view it as a major threat. Just 7 percent say not a threat at all, the Russian military buildup. But look here, which sort of gives you an idea of how much American minds are on this. This was a poll from last month. 33 percent said they weren't really sure which gives you an understanding that Americans aren't necessarily paying that much attention to what's going on.

BERMAN: 190,000 troops there, 33 percent saying they're not sure if the Russians are a threat. How concerned do you think Americans are?

ENTEN: Right. This sort of puts into context. Again, this is a fast- moving situation, so we'll see how these numbers develop, but are you extremely concerned about -- and look at all these different things, inflations, higher crime rates, political divisions, the coronavirus pandemic, North Korea missile tests, the situation between the Russia and Ukraine, look at that, all the way at the bottom.

All the way at the bottom. Just 24 percent of Americans are extremely concerned about the situation between Russia and Ukraine. That is below every other number that was tested in this poll which again gets to that point that we saw. They may view Russia as a threat but they do not view Russia as a major threat.

BERMAN: Now this is again a month ago at this point. Maybe that number has changed. This is stark, though, to see that more people care about the North Korean missile test than do about the situation with Russia with troops on Ukraine's border here. What's the partisan divide?

ENTEN: Yes. You know, I think this is a number that I'm really going to be watching which is naming Russia as the U.S. greatest threat. We do not have a 2022 number on this, but you can see over the Trump presidency, we saw this massive partisan divide develop between 2016 in which Democrats, 14 percent, Republicans 16 percent, viewing Russia as the greatest threat.

Then look at this, a 41-point gap developed with 47 percent of Democrats viewing them as the greatest enemy versus just 6 percent of Republicans. I'm going to be awfully interested to see if that partisan divide either tightens or widens as the situation develops.

BERMAN: Harry, and thank you very much. I think this explains a lot about the American opinion and maybe some of the reasons why the White House is moving ahead perhaps very carefully. Thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you, sir.

BERMAN: Well, Vladimir Putin has ordered troops into two regions of eastern Ukraine overnight. What will the Biden administration do? How will they respond? We have a key White House official joining us ahead.

KEILAR: And an Ohio doctor accused of killing 14 patients by overprescribing pain medication is set to stand trial beginning today. The wife of one of his alleged victims speaking out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:54:06]

BERMAN: Today, opening arguments begin in the trial of a former Ohio doctor accused of overprescribing his patients' pain killing drugs to quicken their deaths. Dr. William (INAUDIBLE) is facing 14 murder charges for allegedly giving patients lethal amounts of fentanyl.

CNN's Jean Casarez brought this story to our attention and joins us now.

This is really interesting and troubling in many ways.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And it's an important trial because I think we all can relate to it. Someone in our family or close friend that is dying and is given that comfort care medication so they're not in so much pain. The prosecutor in this case is going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that William Husel intended to cause the deaths of these patients and that he actually caused the death. This is a trial about critically ill patients and the decisions doctors make.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS ALLISON, WIDOW: He was my best friend. I'm sorry.

[07:55:05]

CASAREZ (voice-over): Chris Allison lost the love of her life in 2018. She and her husband Troy were at home on a summer Saturday night, when he started having difficulty breathing.

(On-camera): Had this happened before?

ALLISON: No.

CASAREZ: Or is this the first time that something like this --

ALLISON: First time. First time.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Troy, who suffered from diabetes, said to call for an ambulance.

ALLISON: They checked his vitals. And he said his sugar was a little high. And he said, you know, I think I'm going to take him over just for a precaution. And I was, like, are you OK with that? And he said, yes.

CASAREZ: It would be the couple's final conversation. Troy was transported a few miles away to Mount Carmel West Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. According to medical records from the plaintiff's attorneys, Troy suffered at least two heart attacks in the ER. The chaplain sat with Chris. Troy was taken to the ICU, where the night shift doctor was William Husel. ALLISON: He says to me I'm 99.9 percent sure there is no brain

activity that he is brain dead. His organs are shutting down. I'd like to give him something to make him comfortable.

CASAREZ: A short time later, the 44-year-old husband and stepfather was dead.

ALLISON: It just wasn't adding up.

CASAREZ: Months after his death, Chris says she got a call from the hospital, saying he had been given an overdose. Troy received 1,000 micrograms of fentanyl from Dr. Husel.

ALLISON: They said they're going to give him something to make him comfortable. Then fine, give him -- he didn't say I'm going to give him 1,000 micrograms of fentanyl and he'll be dead before you entered the room. That would have been a different conversation.

CASAREZ: Mount Carmel told CNN in a statement, "What happened was tragic and we've made a number of changes designed to prevent this from ever happening again in our health system."

An investigation was initiated by Mount Carmel and found the doctor allegedly administered deadly doses of painkillers to at least 25 patients. In 2018 he was fired, and the following year his medical license suspended by the state of Ohio.

CHIEF THOMAS QUINLAN, COLUMBUS, OHIO POLICE: It is our sincere hope the families of these victims will find solace by the state of Ohio holding Dr. Husel accountable for his devious conduct.

CASAREZ: Prosecutors charged Husel with 25 counts of first-degree murder, 11 of those have since been dismissed. Husel has pleaded not guilty.

JOSE BAEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: William was a compassionate doctor, and that's why he's standing trial for murder because of his compassion, not because of some criminal act that he allegedly committed.

CASAREZ: His attorney says each of Husel's 14 patients was near the end of life, and the doctor was preventing needless suffering known as comfort care.

BAEZ: This is the very first time comfort care is on trial. And I don't want a prosecutor telling my doctor or me that my loved one has to die in pain. It is wrong. It is absolutely wrong. It is not their business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Now there is no standardized dosing for comfort care medications when a patient is close to death. It is doctor discretion and is based on the entire medical record. Husel is facing 14 life terms, but they -- the patients had multiple medical issues. I mean, the gentleman that we profiled, Troy Allison, had many medical issues that were dire. He was close to death. So to prove that he caused the death beyond a reasonable doubt is going to be difficult for the prosecution. But this is very important for the future of comfort care medication. One way or the other.

BERMAN: Look, it's a complicated case. These are complicated discussions and issues.

CASAREZ: Yes.

BERMAN: For families as well.

CASAREZ: This is going to be a trial about death.

BERMAN: Jean Casarez, this is really interesting. Thank you so much for bringing this to us.

CASAREZ: You're welcome.

BERMAN: NEW DAY continues right now.

KEILAR: Good morning to viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Tuesday, February 22nd. And I'm Brianna Keilar with John Berman. And we do have breaking news.

The White House announcing that it will be imposing additional sanctions on Russia here in the coming hours. And moments ago, Germany announced big news, it is halting development of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline with Russia. This is about the largest penalty that any country could levy against the Kremlin. And also moments ago, new questions about whether Russian officials are opening the door to further troop movement into areas controlled by Ukrainian forces.

About 25 to 30 miles from the Donbas region in Ukraine, our team on the ground saw several pieces of self-propelled artillery and infantry, fighting vehicles in a field, and Vladimir Putin has already ordered his forces into two regions of eastern Ukraine just hours after he signed decrees recognizing their independence.

[08:00:00]