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U.S. Warns Businesses to Watch for Russian Cyberattacks; The Chilling Similarities of Russian & U.S. Right-Wing TV Coverage. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 23, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: NATO's eastern flank. About 800 U.S. troops are also being repositioned from Italy to the Baltic region. And overnight, NATO secretary general announced there is evidence that Russian troops have moved into the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine is calling on all of its citizens within Russia to leave, and also announcing a state of emergency will be introduced across all government-controlled regions. The measure is expected to be approved by the Ukrainian parliament within 48 hours and will last for 30 days.

Here in the United States, American businesses are being warned to watch out for potential ransomware attacks by Russian hackers.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So CNN has reporters on the ground in all the critical locations. We want to begin with Sam Kiley, who is in the Donbas region, in Ukraine, where, Sam, you've been in the middle of the results of the shelling that has taken place over the last few days. Why don't you tell us what you've seen?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're joining me form Novalahance (ph). Now, about 500 meters in that direction is the front line effectively. On the other side of that in the other part of the Donetsk oblast, the Russian-backed separatists, possibly now supported with formally recognized Russian troops. But in the last 48 hours, this town has been the scene of intense shelling. It has been the scene of at least one killing, a chap called Roman (ph) who was killed about 100 meters in that direction during a volley of fire that resulted here, the damage you can see to a family's home.

This is a family and there, I don't know if you can hear it, but there was another shell landing in the distance. There has been a steady drumbeat, a kind of relentless thunder all day of shelling. This one happened 48 hours ago. Mercifully, nobody was actually killed, which is, frankly, a miracle. Iraina (ph) and her daughter Veronica (ph) were actually hiding in here, in the kitchen. It's outside kitchen. You see the shrapnel blows -- strikes, rather, that have torn into the building, didn't go through the walls.

Now, take a look at what the sort of damage that you can get when a single artillery shell hits a civilian home. That effectively is the exit wound. That is the consequence, and there was another shell I just heard landing. These shells that are landing, they're not near us. They're about half a mile away. This is a shell, though, that has blown out the far side. That is the exit wound to a home.

But when you see what high explosives can do when fired into a civilian environment, it's quite terrifying. Earlier on we were advised not to go upstairs, but I think having checked it out, I'm going to take the risk because it really is worth showing just how horrific the results of a single shell can be. These were stud walls, all gone. The structure is very wobbly. There is a limited amount of -- holding this place together. The family study, and this is the bedroom of a nine-year-old. This is the bedroom of Veronica (ph). Luckily, she was in the kitchen lying on the floor when these shells landed, but it could have been so much worse. Truly almost a miraculous survival.

All of the everyday manifestations of a young child's life being torn to pieces, utterly shredded. It is absolutely extraordinary that this could have been done by a single artillery shell. There were four that landed in this town, part of an exchange of fire, some locals have said. Others are claiming it is just the worst level of shelling that they have seen in many years. Not since 2014, which is when this war was started. And, indeed, this town actually fell then to the Russian- backed rebels. And then the Russian-backed rebels are saying, with Putin's agreement, that this territory is part of the land that they claim. They're not yet on it. This territory, where I'm standing, is still controlled by the government, by government forces, they're here on the ground, many of them in a fairly covert environment, apart from those that are holding those already established front lines.

BERMAN: Sam, it is remarkable to see you inside that house. And just a reminder, I've said this before, this is not some military installation, this is not military hardware. This is a home where a nine-year-old child lived. You showed us the bedroom there. I'm curious, this family, the other Ukrainians you're speaking to who live there, what do they want from the world? What do they need in terms of support right now? Do they feel like they're getting it?

[08:05:12]

KILEY: They feel very abandoned indeed. One of the shocking things at the funeral, and we'll be bringing you the report of Roman's (ph) funeral, he was killed during the same volley that hit this town that did this destruction, he was killed parking his car because he was trying to get it, vainly, into cover during this salvo of shells that came in.

At that funeral, they were blaming both sides. This is a Russian- speaking town, they have got friends and family on the other side of the front line. I spoke to one woman today whose son is 50. He's a former Ukrainian marine. He's worried about being called up on the other side. And in the words of his mother, Nadya (ph), Nadya (ph) said to me, he's been on the phone to me saying, mommy, if I get called up, I might have to come to your town, to my town and end up killing my mother. Imagine the localized level of horror being generated by this new idea that somehow Russia is legitimizing the claims being made by the separatists, even more territory inside Ukraine.

So, yes, you've got the grand politics playing out, the big statements coming from the European Union, from the U.S. president. But here on the ground, people's lives are being driven apart, wedges are being driven between families. It has been going on since 2014. A lot of people deeply, deeply resentful of the outside world ignoring what went on here in 2014 when land was taken by Russian-backed rebels including the Crimean Peninsula. Ukraine was stopped, effectively, from successfully or efficiently arming itself until very, very recently. Very little lethal aid was given to the Ukrainians. Relatively low-level stuff, tank killing weapons for infantiers has been delivered by the British and the Americans, but not much that would really hold back the might of the Russian military. And it is the might of the Russian military, 70 percent of their ground forces are now to the north, to the east, and to the south of Ukraine.

And just down the road here, just down the road potentially, it's unclear the extent to which Russia has actually moved troops into the Donbas region, but if they have, they could be a few hundred meters from where I'm standing.

BERMAN: Sam Kiley truly on the front lines of this conflict. Thank you so much for being there for us. Please stay safe.

KEILAR: I want to talk now with CNN's Frederik Pleitgen. He is live from Russia, which is very near the border with Ukraine. Fred, what is the situation there where you are?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Brianna. I'm actually really right almost at the border between Russia and Ukraine, but certainly one of those separatist republics that Vladimir Putin has just recognized. And you do also see a lot of that Russian armor around here as well.

But I want to play on one of the things that Sam was saying, because it was quite interesting that he was talking about the people who are down there in the region where he was, because I was actually able to yesterday speak with some folks who fled those separatist republics and are now near the Rostov area in Russia, because I asked them some of the same questions that Sam was just talking about as well.

They also said that they'd witnessed some of the shelling. One woman told me that the school that her daughters were in was shelled and destroyed. And they said that they do have a lot of bad feelings towards Ukrainian authorities, but they certainly don't have any bad feelings towards their neighbors, towards their extended family. That is still in the part that is controlled by Ukraine. So I think a lot of people who were on the ground where Sam is and

where I was yesterday, they essentially just want peace, and they certainly don't want any of this to escalate. No one that I've spoken to on the ground has yet said that they are in favor of some sort of wider escalation or some sort of wider war.

Having said that, of course, what we're seeing out here is certainly a lot of Russian armor, a lot of Russian military that we have seen in various locations. And a lot of it is very heavy. A lot of it is artillery pieces, a lot of it is self-propelled howitzers, tanks. So certainly, you can see how Vladimir Putin is moving his army in place.

It was quite interesting, because just a couple of minutes ago, one of the leaders of one of those separatist republics, the Donetsk People's Republic, he came out and claimed that the Russian military had not yet moved into the Donbas, but he did say that it is something that could happen very soon, because, of course, now there is that agreement that would officially, at least, allow the Russians to move in there.

So certainly right now, it seems as though the folks on the ground here are waiting to see what kind of military moves will happen as the Russian buildup does seem to continue, as the Russians seem to be fortifying their positions, seem to be moving into new positions, and then also strengthening the sort of rear echelon, as John I think was mentioning in the intro, with a field hospital now also being put into work as well. So certainly, the stage apparently is being set for something that could be a lot more far reaching and certainly a lot more devastating.

[08:10:04]

Right now, a lot of people, though, that we're speaking to on the ground are hoping that nothing -- that nothing worse happens, that the situation doesn't further escalate, guys.

KEILAR: A field hospital, a very good point there. Fred Pleitgen live for us on the Russian side of the border, thanks.

BERMAN: Let's bring in Steve Hall, CNN national security analyst and former CIA chief of Russia operations. Steve, this is the map we have been looking at in Ukraine and Russia in the contested area right there. I do want to talk about these images that they were just discussing we're seeing of field hospitals hopping up, field hospitals and also logistics centers. These are the satellite images.

Let me give you a sense of one of the locations we're talking about here. And this is what strikes me, is all the way up here, whereas the conflict that we're talking about right now, the so-called line of contact where we just saw Sam Kiley is down here. So why are we seeing the buildup of hospitals and logistics all the way there?

SAM HALL, FORMER CIA CHIEF OF RUSSIAN OPERATIONS: Well, you would think, of course, that most of the emphasis would be right down here, which indeed I think right now that's where Moscow is focused. And even though we might not be able to see formal troops or uniformed troops moving in, they have actually been paramilitary-wise in this region for a long time.

Now, over the past couple of weeks we have all been watching as the buildups happen in these locations. And, of course, outside of the Donbas region, Luhansk and Donetsk, the only reason to have troops anywhere else is if you're considering moving elsewhere besides here. So you're looking at possible roots down to hear, Crimea, which has already, of course, been absorbed by Russia, and then further on down towards Odessa.

But again, the only reason that you have field hospitals and other support, logistics support, is if you're thinking about, as another option, going in for the whole country.

BERMAN: To be clear, Kyiv is right there. So you're dealing right there with the capital of the country. I think by putting these forces up here, it is a reminder, hey, we're here. Don't forget, we're here, and can move whenever we want.

We just saw Sam Kiley who is in the Donbas region right now. And just so people can have a sense of what this looks like up on the map, we saw the house riddled with shrapnel where he is. So this is the border between Russia and Ukraine. No matter what Russia says right now, everything over here is Ukraine, all right. This part of it is -- has been controlled by Russian separatists for some time. This, all this area here, is what they claim. And the concern right now is they'll move from here to here, is that what you're watching?

HALL: Absolutely, because Putin has -- well, of course, Putin started by saying Ukraine really doesn't exist as a country. So in one sense we're arguing about how many angels are on the head of a pin. But yes, so this is already fully under the control of these proxies, these Russians that have already been sent in years ago. And, of course, they're talking about going out further. And Putin has said, yes, those -- the full regions of both Luhansk and Donetsk are indeed now independent countries. And so the question now is, is the next step going to be the whole enchilada of all of Ukraine, or are the sanctions that we're now beginning to see appear going to have him slow down and stage here for a bit to see what the west's next reaction is going to be?

BERMAN: What do you think the next step for Putin is at this point?

HALL: I honestly think that what he's doing right now is he's considering and he's looking and he's seeing what the pushback is from the west. I am very concerned about some of the reporting that we have seen about Putin being sort of in a bubble. We saw a very interesting situation where he basically publicly embarrassed his chief of external intelligence, the SVR, and to me that says that he's doesn't have anybody who is telling him the truth. He doesn't have anybody who is saying these are the pros and cons of what you're doing. What he's got is a bunch of people telling him what he wants to hear. And if that's the case, we heard yesterday he wants to absorb the entire country. That's a great concern.

BERMAN: And I had Garry Kasparov tell me yesterday he thinks that Vladimir Putin has lost his grip on reality there, which is interesting.

One move the United States has made here is repositioning some troops in Europe right now, moving them to the Baltic region right now, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. And just so people know, Ukraine is down here. This is the area where the conflict is, all the way down here. What is the significance of moving troops up there?

HALL: When Vladimir Putin starts to say things like the Soviet Union and its downfall was a horrible loss, when he talks about Ukraine not being a real country, then of course, you've got to remember that not too many years ago Estonia and Lithuania Latvia were all, of course, part of the Soviet Union, too. These are small countries, relatively small militaries. They are NATO partners, which is a very good thing for them right now. But I think NATO is concerned that if Putin is looking to do more than just Ukraine, if he's actually looking to test whether or not NATO has the strength to invoke Article Five, which is the attack for one is against all of us and we must defend each other, if he is going to test that, this might be the kind of place where he would do it.

BERMAN: These three countries, Poland, NATO nations, Ukraine down here, not. That's the difference. Steve Hall, thank you so much.

HALL: Sure.

BERMAN: Brianna?

KEILAR: Vladimir Putin intensifying his rhetoric, even as he says he is still open to diplomacy. In the meantime, the U.S. is on high alert for cyberattacks in retaliation for these economic sanctions that have been leveled against Russia.

[08:15:06]

CNN reporters are covering it all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jim Sciutto in Lviv, Ukraine.

There are times when there is daylight between the urgency expressed by U.S. officials and Ukrainian officials, that is gone. Ukraine has announced a state of emergency in this country. They will increase security at critical infrastructure, also at transit points.

At the same time, they are now warning Ukrainians not to travel to Russia anymore, and any of them living there should come home. Why? They don't consider Russia safe for Ukrainians anymore.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONALSECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kylie Atwood at the State Department.

Yesterday, after President Biden gave his speech, detailing new sanctions against Russia, the senior FBI and cyber official convened a call with local governments and businesses, telling them to be cognizant of the possibility of ransomware attacks originating from Russia, given this brewing tension due to the Ukraine crisis. These tensions that are growing between the U.S. and the West as a result of this.

Now, he warned them that these ransomware attacks are something that have emanated from Russia in the past. And he warned them to be thoughtful about how they could disrupt critical services.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: All right. Joining me now is CNN national security analyst James Clapper. He is the former director of national intelligence during the Obama administration.

And, sir, it is great to have you here this morning. Thank you so much.

Do these sanctions that Biden has announced, do they deter Russia in your opinion?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think one of the frustrations with the imposition of sanctions is expectation of instant gratification. So they're being staged, I think very deliberately, and the sanctions we're imposing in conjunction with those imposed by the E.U. and the U.K.

So I think it is too early to tell. The ultimate objective of sanctions is to change behavior. And that probably hasn't happened yet. Will it? Well, hope so, but the jury is out on that.

KEILAR: Do you think the staggering of these sanctions is helpful, this desire not to just do hammer down all at once?

CLAPPER: Well, that's almost a religious argument. You can make a case for doing it both ways, the administration has elected to hold back some for leverage and deterrence purposes, rather than doing the whole money right at the outset.

If you do that, you used up a lot of arrows in your quiver early on. And I think it is probably better, in anticipation that the Russians are going to do more than what they have done so far.

KEILAR: Do you think then that would deter Russia from going as far as it would want?

CLAPPER: Well, you say Russia, or more specifically Putin.

KEILAR: Yeah, sure.

And I doubt it. He's kind of in a bubble. The Central Bank of Russia amassed -- I don't know what the number -- $336 billion of reserves to withstand initially the pain -- whatever pain is caused by sanctions. So, again, we'll have to see.

I personally don't think that it is going to be much of a distraction for Putin himself personally. KEILAR: So the options are he stays, Russia and Russian-backed

separatists stay in this area that they have held or they expand beyond that to these counties, oblasts, Donetsk and Luhansk, or maybe they proceed down toward Crimea, they get Mariupol, they get to port city, they have a land bridge to Crimea, or they go for as you -- the whole Monty, you used that phrase.

What do you think Putin wants to do?

CLAPPER: What Putin wants to do is roll back the calendar about 30 years, and revert to the way things were around 1991, before the fall of the -- the collapse of the Soviet Union. He's stated that. Well, that potentially is very dangerous for -- because what he means is changing the fundamental security infrastructure of Europe that has existed for 30 years. Whether he actually goes after the former soviet republics, the Baltics, as Steve Hall described, remains to be seen. But it may not necessarily have to do it just by military force.

One other sore spot for him is the region in Poland, which we haven't talked about, which is isolated enclave in Poland. Right now, the only way the Russians get access to that is I think via Lithuania and Poland itself. So I wonder if Putin is going to look there next and demand a corridor in both those countries to get access to that Russian enclave in Poland.

[08:20:04]

KEILAR: It is a very far afield, this vision that you're describing here.

I wonder if as you have watched Putin here in recent days, if you think he's stable. I asked you that because "The Wall Street Journal" is quoting a close aide to French President Emmanuel Macron who said Macron found Putin, quote, tended to talk in circles, rewriting history and more ridged and isolated and had basically gone into an ideological and security-minded rift. Do you think he's stable?

CLAPPER: Well, I'm not qualified to answer that question, but as a layman --

KEILAR: Have you noticed a change?

CLAPPER: As a layman, I wonder about someone who has been in an ivory tower bubble for as long as he has for 20 years, and a literal bubble for the last two years during the pandemic.

As we saw with his behavior towards his external intelligence service head, he's not one who is interested in hearing bad news. So he doesn't have anybody, best I can tell, pushing back.

So, his -- he now has his own reality, which I think is dangerous, both for Russia and for that matter the rest of the world.

KEILAR: Yeah, it was incredible that moment you referenced with his intel chief, you know. Like you were seeing what happens behind closed doors out there in -- CLAPPER: I know the feeling.

KEILAR: Yeah. Maybe not in public, I would hope.

General, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Joe Biden's new sanctions hit Russia's finances. Can we expect more? We're going to talk to the White House live just ahead.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And a lot of countries calling out Russia's actions, but not China. What's going on with this delicate alliance between the two nations?

And chilling similarities between Russian TV and this guy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:25:33]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: He is a very talented statesman. He has lots of gifts. He was a KGB agent for goodness sakes. He knows how to use power. We should respect that.

Very shrewd, very capable. I have enormous respect for him. I've been criticized for saying that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Russian TV highlighting Mike Pompeo's praise of Vladimir Putin as tensions heat up in the Ukraine-Russia conflict. So, does the right wing rhetoric end support of Vladimir Putin?

Here to discuss, our CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter,

and Russian media analyst and columnist for "The Daily Beast", Julia Davis.

Brian, I mean, first, what do you make of what we're seeing and how this is being used?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think no such thing as an innocent explanation here. To the extent there is a baseline explanation, it is that old adage from the Trump years about being anti anti-Trump, that savvy Fox commentators weren't pro-Trump. They were just against Trump's -- people that were against Trump. They were anti-anti-Trump which essentially made them pro-Trump.

Now, what you see with Tucker Carlson is being anti-anti-Putin. He's claiming he's not pro-Putin, he's just against the people that are against Putin. So, in effect, he's defending Putin and providing a narrative that is pro-Russia on his very popular Fox News show. That's a more innocent explanation. I think the darker possibility is that he wants to see a more

authoritarian bent on the United States. He wants to see a Putin-like leader in the United States. That's a very dark possibility.

But, you know, Tucker has been doing this narrative for years now, this pro Putin narrative, and he's not the only one on fox doing it. He's the most prominent, but we have seen it seep out throughout the right wing media and to the likes of Mike Pompeo.

BERMAN: Julia, I want to talk about what's going on in Russia right now, because you've been doing a lot of work following Russian media. You noted there was a point within the past 24 hours they were joking as Russia is announcing an invasion into eastern Ukraine about popping champagne on television? What's going on here?

JULIA DAVIS, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes, thank you, John, for having me.

It has been a really shocking to watch the joy and glee with which Russian state television celebrated the prospect of an escalation with Ukraine, which even before this has gotten to this point. They have always acknowledged that if Putin were to recognize the independence of these so-called republics, that would mean war against Ukraine.

And to watch them celebrating, demanding champagne in the studio, there was so much laughter and clapping, it was very sinister and hard to watch.

KEILAR: And, Julia, are there any outlets for Russians to get the real story or has Vladimir Putin pretty much effectively totally put down independent media?

DAVIS: Yes, Brianna, he effectively eliminated independent media as it were. The Russians would have to be very proactive to seek out information on the internet, or through very small fledgling independent media outlets, and even those are under pretty tight threat of essentially being -- being completely put out of business.

And, you know, the Russians are being told there are unpatriotic if they don't follow the official line. Basically Putin through his total control of the media managed to create his own sense of reality, and that's now radiating through our right wing media's admiration society for Putin that emboldens him even more.

BERMAN: And just one more question on that, Julia -- Brian I appreciate your patience here.

In the Russian media, how are they portraying the statements from the likes of Mike Pompeo when Donald Trump calls Putin a genius like he did yesterday, or when, you know, there are people on Fox TV saying things like that, how does it play in Russia?

DAVIS: They're thrilled with those statements. They replay them ad nauseam and to them it is a sign of total weakness. That even Americans are not united, and to them, that proves that they don't know for sure that Russia is doing anything wrong and look at these major figures, the former head of the CIA, the former president, Tucker Carlson, whom they praise and refer to as practically their co- host, to them that means that they're winning the information war in the United States as well.

STELTER: But this is how autocrats use a free press to the Americans' disadvantage. I would much rather be in a society where you've got the Tucker Carlsons of the world going off of conspiracy --