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CNN: U.S. Concerned Kyiv Could Fall to Russia Within Days; Ketanji Brown Jackson Considered Supreme Court Pick Frontrunner. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 25, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Look at the map, and you can see why this is a big deal to Putin. And then you look south to Moldova, that seems to me to be an obvious focus.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: So it's very -- it's scary, quite frankly, but so important to talk about, sir. I really appreciate you being with us.

CLAPPER: Thanks Brianna.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking news. CNN told just moments ago that U.S. intelligence is concerned that the Capitol Kyiv could fall to the Russians within the next day to four days. There is great concern about what might be unfolding there.

Our next guest has been on the ground witnessing the violence firsthand. Terrell Jermaine Starr is a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center and the senior reporter at The Root. Terrell, you've been doing amazing work. We've been watching you very

closely. Thank you. And I hope you were being safe. I just want people to know what's been going on. This is the city center of Kyiv right here. The Russians, we understand are already moving about in the overland district in the north, tell us where you are.

TERRELL JERMAINE STARR, NONRESIDENT SENIOR FELLOW, THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL'S EURASIA CENTER: OK, I'm in Southeast Ukraine right now. I'm right across the street from a recruitment center, where men are coming to pick up guns and getting signed up to join the military. I am not in front of that facility. Because the soldiers there are repeatedly warned me that journalists are not allowed to Kyiv, which is why I am across the street as far as possible from them. They were very polite to me, but you could tell everyone is a bit one edge. So I just respectfully went as far away as possible, so I can film. But I'm right across the street from what's happening.

Earlier today, I captured some video of a building that was hit last night. And, again, I just thought about something I can't remember if it was a -- if it was a ballistic missile, or if it was shrapnel that fell from an interceptor. But that was a thing that rocked a residential area about 15 minutes away from where I live. And yes, there are reports of Russian troops inside of the city, but they -- Ukrainian army are fighting very valiantly. And there are no beliefs really hear that they could take it to the city or surround it. People are optimistic that Russia won't completely captured the city. That's what I've been told.

BERMAN: We're looking at the video right now that you took earlier of this apartment building, which is obviously damaged and awfully proves the lie once again, the Russian saying that they're not targeting military -- they're not targeting civilian center. Well, maybe they're not aiming for them. But this is the result of their attack on Ukraine right now. Obviously, civilians are being caught in the middle. And Terrell, we also have heard from Ukrainian officials that they want the civilians on the streets armed with Molotov cocktails and weapons. Have you seen evidence that people are taking matters into their own hands to defend themselves?

STARR: Oh, absolutely. So if you just look across the street, every men that I see within my general area they're walking away with automatic weapons. And so yes, people are taking everything into their own hands. And so these are people who are, you know, they're not necessarily seeking for the view. I'm just trying to check -- just check for the sun. But yeah, these are not people who signed up and went through several months of training. These are people who are teachers, they are, you know, shot people, taxi drivers. My friend who is signing up right now is a linguist. And so he didn't sign up to fight for war. But, you know, you have every single person that could pull a trigger out here. So yes, this -- every single person that could that is ready to fight and willing to do so, definitely seeing signs with that right now.

BERMAN: Are people talking about the what if, Terrell, what if Kyiv, the city does fall in the next day to four days? What do the people intend to do any sense of what that will look like for you, or your friends?

STARR: For the average Ukrainians, you know, when you talk about the city falling, that's a difficult point for them because they can't see the steady falling, they say that they would rather die fighting than to -- in their words, many people have used this language, be slaves to Russia. And so they're -- people are not even thinking about this city being taken, in regards to me. I don't have one my bulletproof vest in my head at the moment. But if the fighting does start, I am going to be here and report as much as I can as safely as I can. Now we're here to capture what's happening and report in the document everything from day one. And that's what I'm here to do. I will do that as safely as possible.

BERMAN: And we do see cars driving by, is there still -- are there still services in the city right now? Is there still any kind of structure in Kyiv?

STARR: Yeah, generally speaking, everything is running as it should be. Now, there are -- if there's not in the central door, for example, it's not going to be open but supermarkets now they're empty. Of course, things like that. No -- you know, notaries are open. So some of the most basic things that people need, yes, those things are open. And so while this city is under attack, there is not panic. I mean, well -- I'm sorry, there is panic, but there's like chaos and so it's relatively calm. It is not as many people in the city, which is the size of Chicago -- with Chicago that we're used to, but there's not widespread chaos there even though people are definitely panicking and on is there in metro stations, preparing for bombings. And so yeah. So but definitely, things are generally working just not 100%.

[07:35:28]

BERMAN: A city the size of Chicago, which U.S. intelligence now worries could fall within the next day or several days. Terrell Jermaine Starr, you've been doing amazing work, showing us the video, took of an apartment building, damaged by this attack.

STARR: That's the siren -- you heard that, there's a siren going off right now.

BERMAN: This is the sounds right now taking place all over, all over Ukraine in Kyiv. Terrell Jermaine Starr, we hope you safe, we certainly think he is. We'll check back in with him in just a little bit.

Obviously, Kyiv concerns that may fall within the next several days and entire nation being invaded right now. This is CNN Special Live Coverage more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:28]

KEILAR: We'll be taking you in a moment back to the unfolding situation in Ukraine. First, though we do have some breaking news back here in the United States. We're getting worried that President Biden will announce his Supreme Court nominee today and a source familiar with the pick says there is a clear front runner. CNN's Jeremy Diamond live for us at the White House with more. Jeremy, what can you tell us?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, good morning, Brianna. This is for my colleagues, John Harwood and Jeff Zeleny, who are reporting that President Biden is set to announce his Supreme Court nominee today. One of those sources saying that President Biden is expected to call that soon to be a Supreme Court nominee this morning to extend that offer to nominate the first black woman to the Supreme Court of the United States. We know that there are three candidates that President Biden has met with, the front runner appears to be the person you're seeing on your screen right now, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, the other candidates front -- on the shortlist that President Biden has met with include, Judge Michelle Childs and Leondra Kruger as well.

Interestingly, today would mark two years to the date since President Biden as candidate Biden during the 2020 Democratic presidential primary said that he would nominate, he made this pledge to nominate the first black woman to the Supreme Court. And today it appears the President Biden is said to make good on that campaign promise. Expected to name one of those women to become that first Supreme Court Justice, first black woman Supreme Court Justice of the United States.

As far as the White House is concerned, they are still -- the official line is that they're still saying, they're saying no update that the President is on track to make this decision by the end of February, as he announced. But two sources now saying that President Biden is expected to call that nominee today and expected to announce that pick.

Of course, with Ukraine, the timing could be fluid, we should keep that in mind. That's the situation that the President is closely monitoring, John, Brianna.

BERMAN: So three things I've heard from people who are very supportive of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, number one, they say she is a brilliant, legal mind. Number two, interestingly enough, is that she was a public defender, and she would be the first person on the court, or she would be the only person in the court right now who would have that kind of experience in public defense, which is seen as vital. And the third thing is, is this would give President Biden another chance at nominating someone for the D.C. appeals court, if she were to be put on the Supreme Court, which is obviously a very important position as well. Is there any sense from your reporting, Jeremy, what the White House likes most about her?

DIAMOND: Well, that's certainly one of the things that the public defender background is something that we have seen President Biden also take note of, as he has made other judicial nominations for lower courts as well. They have talked about not only a diversity in terms of ethnicity, and gender, but also, they've talked about a diversity of experience looking to put more public defenders, for example, in positions where typically you might have folks with corporate law experience or criminal law experience on the prosecutorial side. So that is something important. But there are other advantages also, for Michelle Childs, for example. She has been pointing to because of the fact that she has a public -- she wants to stay at school. She has a public school education at the higher level. That is something that we also haven't seen, typically you have the kind of Ivy League education credentials for many of these past Supreme Court justices. So, but certainly the public defender aspect for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is something that the White House has looked at in the past and also as it relates to her.

KEILAR: And judge joined now by our Supreme Court guru, Joan Biskupic just sat down with us to talk about this. What do you think of this, she's clearly the front runner where he's expected to make this announcement today, but there was also a little bit of a tip off, that Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson may be the pick, and that was because of something odd that happened yesterday with the release of an opinion that she was a part of?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: That's true, but that's just one of many signals that are pointing in her direction, then, a case that she had been part of came down a little bit earlier, out of the normal routine, except for the court did say that since it was an emergency case, rather than a straightforward one. It truly was another routine. So they're giving us a couple of mixed signals there. But I think given what our colleagues have just said, and kind of where President Biden has been already with many of his picks, that she clearly is the -- she has the background that we would think he would favor. And today is the culmination of what's been going on actually since the transition. They expected they were going to have an appointment to the court.

[07:45:07]

And Justice Breyer announced formally, you know, just at the end of January, and they've been interviewing, you know, a couple of really prime candidates all highly qualified. But this is going to be so historic to say for the first time in the courts, 233 year history, an African American woman will be nominated for the very first time and given the credentials of Judge Jackson and the other ones who we know are on the shortlist, I anticipate it will be a pretty smooth confirmation. Although, you know, in this day and age, it will be a contested, difficult one in some ways, but I think that there will easily be a majority for who his choice, and that this person likely would be seated, you know, by the first Monday in October for the new session to start.

BERMAN: Yeah, I think confirmation would be likely, although people should know that if we're talking about Ketanji Brown Jackson, when she was confirmed to the appeals court, she was confirmed, but it wasn't exactly a landslide vote in the Senate?

BISKUPIC: You know, John, that's exactly right. But in this day and age to get three Republicans for a democratic appointee, is already -- we're already in at least more positive territory than the very divided partisan switches. Splits, John, that we saw for the three Trump appointees. You know, so I'm not saying this is going to be a walk in the park, that's for sure. It's not going to be a walk in the park. But if she's already -- if it is, Jackson, if it is Judge Jackson, and we should caution that we don't know anything definite this morning, but if it is her, she's already been confirmed three times by the Senate for other posts. So she goes into it, at least with that. She's been scrutinized, pretty seriously by members of the Senate already.

KEILAR: And in a 50/50 Senate, nonetheless.

BISKUPIC: Right.

KEILAR: There's been some pressure from Democrats who have thought let's get this show on the road. We want to make sure that we have all the votes that a senator doesn't get sick or somehow incapacitated and change the balance of power and make it impossible to get this done?

BISKUPIC: That's exactly right. And don't -- we remember what happened immediately, like within days of justice Breyer, formally announcing his retirement for this summer, Senator Lujan fell ill. He's, you know, he's recovered, and he'll be OK. You'll be able to vote. Everyone says, but that just shows how fragile this 50 vote Democratic side is right now.

KEILAR: Yeah. Because if let's say, yes, she's gotten three Republican votes, right?

BISKUPIC: Right.

KEILAR: But if you're in a situation where it comes down to, if they don't support her, then they might not be able to -- they'd be able to prevent Democrats from having a nominee. They might seize that opportunity.

BISKUPIC: I think they could. If we were closer to the presidential election year, I think we'd definitely see that. But, you know, here's the other thing that you should remember, the Republicans, under normal circumstances, would not be gunning for this nominee as much as a different nominee, being appointed to succeed, for example, a conservative. She will be succeeding a liberal. So she's -- it's still going -- they still have the upper hand on the Supreme Court, a very, very strong upper hand of six conservatives. So this is very much unlike 2016 when Barack Obama was trying to succeed, conservative Justice Antonin Scalia, with a liberal appointee. So you have presumably, maybe tensions could be down a little bit, Brianna, I know that's -- I'm talking way too late right now.

KEILAR: Yeah.

BISKUPIC: But I think that, again, given that this isn't as pivotal a seat as back in 2016, or frankly, in 2020, when Amy Coney Barrett succeeded Ruth Bader Ginsburg, that has transformed this Supreme Court. So, Republicans conservatives very much have a strong upper hand and to just succeed a liberal for a liberal is not as dramatic.

KEILAR: All right, looks like potentially a big day here. Joan, stand by, don't go too far. Berman?

BERMAN: All right, I want to bring in CNN Chief Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin, who has written how many books in the Supreme Court, Jeffrey?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Two.

BERMAN: Two books in the Supreme Court. CNN reporting that there will be a nominee announced today and you choosing careful language here, the clear front runner is Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. This is an historic moment, Jeffrey?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, there -- it's always a historic moment when a Supreme Court justice is nominated. There's only been 114 or 115, depending how you count in the history of the country. And, of course, this will be the first African American woman on the court. You know, the -- you can look at the changes in American life and American politics by the evolution of appointments to the Supreme Court. It was only in the 1850s that the first Catholic was appointed to the Supreme Court, the first Jewish person after the turn the last century. Of course more familiarly, the first African American Thurgood Marshall in 1967 the first woman, Sandra Day O'Connor in 1981, the first Hispanic, Sonia Sotomayor in 2009. And now the first African American woman.

[07:50:23] I mean, this is an example of how the changes in American life are reflected in the Supreme Court. And, you know, assuming that Judge Jackson or one of the other African American women, the President is considering are confirmed, you'll see that as a mark of change in how America works.

BERMAN: As we said, we are now expecting the nominee to be announced today, the leading contender Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. Stand by for more confirmation of that, coming up. Jeffrey, thank you very much.

The breaking news we've been watching all morning, U.S. intelligence says the Kyiv could fall to Russian troops within days. Russian forces are closing in. We're live on the ground. Our special live coverage continues, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:23]

BERMAN: All right, breaking news, U.S. intelligence tells CNN there is concern that the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, could fall within the next one to four days, very soon. CNN has reported over the last several hours that there is fighting. This is the city center right here that the Russians have moved into the northern districts of the city, the Obolon District, just a few miles from the city center right now. So there is great concern about what is happening there.

I want to bring in the U.S. ambassador to NATO, Julianne Smith. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us this morning. If Kyiv does fall, what do you see as the appropriate response?

JULIANNE SMITH, UNITED STATES PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE, NATO: Well, at this point, what's happening here at NATO is we've had a series of emergency meetings, both at 30 allies, and we also met yesterday with our Ukraine counterpart. We're obviously monitoring the situation closely and determining it as an alliance, additional steps that we could take to make sure that we're reinforcing and defending NATO territory. Ukraine as a partner to this alliance, many allies have provided and are providing security assistance. And we will continue to assess the security needs going forward.

BERMAN: If the Ukrainian government as is does fall, would that create a change in the situation, a change in the NATO posture toward Ukraine?

SMITH: Well, look, let me be clear, we've already changed NATO's posture just in a couple of weeks, the past couple of weeks. We've had, not only the United States, but other NATO allies moving force posture into Central and Eastern Europe. You heard the President last night announced that the U.S. is putting an additional 7000 troops into Europe. And we will have a summit today, a snap virtual summit where all the heads of state of all 30 allies will sit down and determine what else is necessary in the days and weeks ahead.

BERMAN: Look, if Vladimir Putin has already invaded Ukraine which he has, if there are signs, he could take over this entire nation, what do you think there is to keep him from turning his sights to the NATO nations, maybe the Baltics up here? He's just a few miles potentially from the Polish border right here. What's to stop him?

SMITH: This is why it's so important right now that we're taking immediate steps to reinforce the entire eastern flank. We are ready for this moment. NATO has been ready for several weeks now. We've been meeting regularly on this situation, monitoring it closely, and constantly analyzing what we can do to ensure that Putin will never consider crossing over into NATO territory. But as the President reiterated yesterday, the United States will ensure that every inch of NATO territory will be defended. And we stand together with our allies right now, to ensure that that will happen. We have to sharpen the choice for President Putin and make sure that he understands the signal that NATO is sending right now that we will protect NATO territory.

BERMAN: What plans are in place to perhaps protect the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, if his position in key becomes untenable?

SMITH: Well, NATO has been in close touch with President Zelensky. Many individual allies have been in regular contact with him in recent weeks. You heard that President Biden just spoke with him day ago. And that is a situation that will continue to evolve, we will stay in touch with President Zelensky, encourage him to obviously take care of his safety. We're concerned about him. And we are ensuring that the NATO alliance can have regular nearly daily engagements with the Ukrainians.

BERMAN: The French President, Emmanuel Macron, has spoken to Vladimir Putin. President Joe Biden said he's not going to talk to Vladimir Putin at this point, not with what's happening, not with the invasion of Ukraine right now. Does NATO support the French president opening up this dialogue with Putin at this point?

SMITH: So the policy over the last couple of months has been for individual NATO members and for the alliance as a whole, to encourage the Russians to engage in a dialogue. We did that in good faith. We met here at NATO with the Russians face to face for long hours. But at this point, with Russia now choosing a different path, with Russia opting to invade Ukraine instead of opting for the path of deescalate in diplomacy, the United States has no plans to engage diplomatically with President Putin at this time.

BERMAN: We do understand that NATO is flying.