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Terrell Jermaine Starr is Interviewed about the Russian Attack; Ukrainians push Back Russians on Bridge; Biden to Name Supreme Court Nominee; Ian Bremmer is Interviewed about Russia and Ukraine. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 25, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Move possibly towards a resistance phase for Ukraine.

LT. GEN. DOUGLAS LUTE (RET.), FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR, NATO: I think -- I think, then, yes, like that. Give the Ukrainian military, but equally important, the Ukrainian citizenry hope. And they demonstrate that the Russian military is not ten feet tall and that they live, breathe and die just like other human beings. And I think that's very important in these early days because the Ukrainian people are suffering from a -- the shock of the invasion. But as that shock wears off, there is the realism that they could actually fight back.

KEILAR: Lieutenant General Lute, really appreciate you being with us. Thank you so much.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we want to go back to Kyiv right now,

Terrell Jermaine Starr is a non-resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center and senior reporter at "The Root."

Terrell, we're going to you. We can see you're in a car right now driving about the city there in the capital of Kyiv.

Give us a sense of what you're seeing now.

TERRELL JERMAINE STARR, NONRESIDENT SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL'S EURASIA CENTER: OK, thank you very much for having me.

I'm not at "The Root," by the way.

But what I'm seeing right now are men walking -- you know, are -- they're being handed guns right now. I'm outside of a recruitment center. I cannot take video and I don't want to spook out these -- these men with these automatic rifles -- weapons. So, I have the camera kind of tilted.

So, basically, you have men walking up in their cars, people who are not, you know, people who aren't traditionally fighters coming in and picking up arms to fight for guerrilla warfare. You see long queues in, you know, at gas stations. You see -- you see a lot -- you see people who are taking their roller baggage trying to flee the city as fast as they can.

You -- there are also some damage to buildings inside of the city proper. About 15 minutes from where I live, in fact, a building was hit and it was a residential building.

So, you see common people taking up arms and ready to fight. There's a man right now with a semi-automatic weapon that just walked right by me, just right in front of my vehicle in a regular jumpsuit, not with any type of army camo whatsoever. So you see all these common people. Another guy walking with another gun right now. That's what you see, common (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: We put the video up so people can see, Terrell, of what you filmed earlier of that apartment complex that had been hit by Russian fire. Obviously, civilians being caught in the middle. Obviously, the Ukrainian people -- whether or not the Russians want to admit it or not are suffering at their hands. Again, we're looking at this video now. I don't know if anyone was hurt or killed in this attack.

And, Terrell, you have friends -- you have friends taking up arms right now.

STARR: That's right.

BERMAN: This is literally, I think I'm not misquoting sort of the cliche here -- wait, what I'm listening -- what am I listening to?

STARR: No, basically, no, I'm telling you that Andre, he's a friend of mine who is actually at the recruitment center right now. He's -- he's the owner of a language school that I currently attend, and he's picking up a gun. This war has completely unraveled his business, students that he's depending on to come to the United States -- that come from the United States, that come from the United Kingdom are no longer coming because of this. And so he's had to find a new job path in order to sustain himself and his family. And so he sent his family to Poland right now, saying that you will go to Poland, be safe, I'm going to stay here and fight for my country.

But Andre, right here, he speaks English. He's one of the many people who are comings to pick up arms. And that's (INAUDIBLE) --

BERMAN: If I -- if Andre can hear me, I don't know if Andre can hear me, and if he can't, will you ask him this.

STARR: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: He's getting a weapon to fight the Russians. How far is he willing to go? What does he think will happen?

STARR: Andre, yes, so he says that you're picking up a gun to fight the Russians, how far are you willing to go?

ANDRE: (INAUDIBLE) so I will say that we all have to (INAUDIBLE) everything we can. But (INAUDIBLE). And even if we do a little bit, and everyone does a little bit of that, within the limits of the (INAUDIBLE). Whatever they can do. Somebody (INAUDIBLE) somebody helping the military (INAUDIBLE).

STARR: What about your family. Your family is in Poland. Do they worry about you staying behind? Did they ask you, why did you decide to stay behind and not be with them?

ANDRE: They did not ask that. They gave me a big hug. They know what I'm doing.

STARR: Absolutely.

Back to you.

BERMAN: And what do you think will happen, Andre, if you and others take to the streets to fight the Russians?

STARR: What do you think will happen to you, Andre, if you and others go to the streets and fight the Russians? What are you expecting to see?

ANDRE: Well, I expect to see a battle. I expect to see a gun battle and I expect to see that we're going to send them a message that they are not welcome here, let's put it this way.

[08:35:03]

STARR: And so you know right about a 10 to 15 minute walk from our building, a residential area was hit. And that building could have very easily have been us. And it really speaks to how much danger that everyone in Kyiv, including myself who's reporting on this, that the situation is in danger (INAUDIBLE).

ANDRE: Yes, it is a dangerous situation. But, you know, we can do so much to influence where we are, and influence what's happening with us. So now it's beyond our control. So to help you to understand, I just concentrate on things that I can realistically do to help our military to stop this invasion.

STARR: What have you said to your wife in case -- and I hate to say this because you're a friend of mine, but if you do not -- if you end up losing your life, to say this, and, again, it hurts me to ask, but have you spoken to your family about the possibility that you will lose your life?

ANDRE: We have not spoken about that. But we all definitely realize what can happen. And I'm in touch with my family right now. And so, they know. They know. We all know. We just keep -- we need to get this done. We need to get it done. And nobody else will do it besides us. We get no help. No army (INAUDIBLE) coming to help us out. So, it's just up to us now.

STARR: Back to you.

BERMAN: And if you can just ask Andre, if he can't hear me, will he or his friends or his family ever accept a Kyiv and a Ukraine under Russian control?

STARR: Andre, will you and your friends, under any circumstances, accept a Ukraine under Russian control?

ANDRE: Absolutely not. It's not going to happen. Listen, they can, let's just emphasize (ph), achieve their short-term goals here. They can. But with a long-term goal, they're not going to survive here. They're not. They're just not welcome here. Any household is going to fight against them. It's just not happening in the long-term perspective. Maybe for short-term things, but not for long-term. You're not going to get Ukraine.

STARR: Yes, so I'll just close out by saying that the lines are lining up. There's not a shortness of men going to these recruitment centers around the city. We've been to three so far and the doors are teeming with men with automatic rifles coming here. And so there is definitely enthusiasm to come in and support the (INAUDIBLE) armed forces of Ukraine.

BERMAN: Andre, do you have a message for President Biden, or frankly for the American people right now, on what you need?

STARR: Andre, do you have a message for President Biden and to the American people about what Ukraine needs and what you need?

ANDRE: Well, first of all, I would like to put up this memorandum we observed as it was written. But, you know, that's not going to happen, send us more beautiful, beautiful weapons that you guys have. We absolutely need more Javelin, we need more good guns and explosives. That will help.

BERMAN: Do you trust that the European countries on your border will be there for you?

STARR: Andre, do you trust that the European nations that are on your border will be there for Ukraine?

ANDRE: I don't count on that. I don't count on that. So moral support works fine. And arms. That's it. We don't expect any European country to come to our help.

STARR: Yes, so that's a common thing that you hear with Ukrainians. And there's a loud discussion in the United States about will the U.S. troops be sent to Ukraine. Most Ukrainians not only recognize that that's not going to happen, but, in fact, they're saying that we're not asking for America to fight our war. They're asking for America, for the European Union, one, to send them weapons, to send them (INAUDIBLE) and platforms (ph) so that they can fight the war themselves. They're also asking for the United States and European Union to levy stiff sanctions against Putin. Right now both (INAUDIBLE) said that they're unsatisfied with the degree of sanctions that have been levied against Putin right now. But more specifically they're saying that they fear that any sanction regime that will come and have some weight will come too late.

BERMAN: Do you have faith, Andre, in your own country's leadership at this point? President Zelensky, is he leading you in the right direction? STARR: Andre, do you have any faith in your country's leadership at

all, particularly Volodymyr -- President Volodymyr Zelensky? Do you have any faith in him?

ANDRE: I must. I must. It's getting a lot better now. I must have faith in my leadership and just stand by them very strongly. I don't have any other choice. They are doing the right thing, right now, for once. And I thank God that they're doing it.

So, I have all my faith in them and I must trust them. I just must do that. As a citizen, as a patriot, as a Ukrainian, I must trust their leadership.

STARR: I will add that, Andre, we have fought -- go ahead.

[08:40:01]

Go ahead. Go ahead. Ask your question.

BERMAN: No, Terrell, I was just going to thank you. I was going to let you go and get to safety right now, if you could. But, go ahead, I don't want to interrupt you.

STARR: No, I was going to say that, Andre, this is the third recruitment center that we have been to. And so he, for different reasons, he's been unsuccessful to get a weapon. You have to have certain documents in order to get it. They just don't give a weapon to anybody. So, at this point, everyone should know in America that they don't just give out semi-automatic weapons, you know, willy-nilly. (INAUDIBLE).

And so he is -- so he's continuing to fight a right recruitment center so that he can get a weapon to fight. He has been very vigilant, and so have the rest of the Ukrainian people.

BERMAN: Terrell Jermaine Smith -- sorry, Terrell Jermaine Starr, I want to thank you for your work being with us. And, Andre, to you, I just want to say to you, we wish you the best of health, the best of safety. We're thinking about you. We're thinking about your family right now.

STARR: They with you the best of health and the best of safety and they're thinking about your family, CNN is saying that.

ANDRE: Thank you so much. Bye.

BERMAN: All right.

STARR: Thank you.

BERMAN: Remarkable right now. Stories across Ukraine of people taking to the streets to defend themselves under attack from a Russian army of nearly 200,000 at this point.

So, we have some new video we're going to show you in just a moment of the aftermath of a battle in the southern part of Ukraine. We've been talking about this. This is where Ukrainian forces successfully pushed the Russians back. We're going to take you there next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:25]

KEILAR: Russian forces are closing in on Ukraine's capital as sources say officials in the U.S. fear that Kyiv could fall to Russia within days. Ukrainian forces successfully pushing the Russians back over the river in the southern port city of Kherson.

And that is where CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is joining us from now.

Tell us what you've been seeing, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, just to let you know, it's sort of beginning to get towards sundown here. We had this consistent shelling continuing over where the area where we were earlier on. The bridge which is essentially across the Dnieper River that splits Ukraine from the Russian bordering side to the European bordering side. Deeply symbolic, but also here a place of great violence.

The most serious fighting in the country, the president of Ukraine said yesterday, and where the Russians seem to have got over the bridge yesterday. Today it was clear when we went to the scene they'd been pushed back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH: Well, this is where Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said some of the fiercest fighting was yesterday. A key bridge on the outskirts of Kherson, essentially the route up into main Ukraine from the Russian-held peninsula of Crimea, taken in 2014. And you can see around me, there's been quite significant destruction here over the past 48 hours.

That building clearly took a direct hit, presumably from some of the air strikes we've been hearing. And the town, it's fair to say, is terrified. They turned their lights off last night. We saw hotels plunging themselves into darkness. Children asking what's happening. Low-flying aircraft coming in, and the distant boom of air strikes. Intimate and small arms fire as well.

I was told of dead bodies brought out from here. We've seen two. One man, unfortunately, left just in the middle of the road there.

But the damage is pretty significant here. And we've been walking up towards this petrol station. You see the sort of bizarre local landmarks that are not being the focus of fighting. And it's clear the Ukrainian army made a significant stand here and took quite a lot of -- certainly damage to their vehicles, possibly military as well.

Well, things seem to have been left off where the Ukrainian forces last positioned were. They are a little bit further away from here. We don't give specifics when we're around them. But, clearly, there's been impact of shells nearby. That, I think, is part of a military guy's t-shirt. And still some artillery shells lying on the side here unused.

This petrol station it seems has also taken a significant hit. That van's been turned over. And one thing we're mindful of is a gas tank that seems to be slowly burning on that direction.

What's extraordinary to see here is how fast civilian life returns back to this area. That's desperation. That's not people thinking it's safe. They're trying to get over to see people they care about, do what they need to do each day.

But the contrast with that and the sheer kind of firepower that we're seeing used here, this must surely have been some kind of air strike. I mean the impact looks like it may have come from this, the Ukrainian side. But these tanks, disabled. And all around us a sign of quite what Ukraine's government mean by the fighting having been most intense around here.

And when you see this sort of damage to daily life here, it's absolutely clear when people say both sides are going to lose in this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Channel 2 is the one they read better. Channel 2.

WALSH: So, I'm just going to pause here. The sirens have picked up again. Closer, frankly, to the city center. And that comes while you were seeing that report from this morning, a very loud rumbling explosion in the distance over here and then the sound of a jet in the skies. That is most likely Russian air power. And it would suggest that, as we saw last night, as the sun begins to set, that they are looking to make another move on that vital bridge.

It is deeply symbolic and strategically important, frankly, that they have access to that. It lets their forces from Crimea head north up towards the capital of Kyiv. And the residents of this town, with the Ukrainian flag blowing right in front of me, are deeply concerned about whether part of the Russian plan involves coming into here where their families shelter.

KEILAR: Thank you for taking us to that bridge that is important, as you say.

Nick Paton Walsh in Kherson, Ukraine, for us. Thanks.

[08:50:03]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: And we still do have more breaking news this morning.

CNN can report, this is from our Jake Tapper, that President Biden will nominate D.C. Appeals Court Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to fill the vacancy on the U.S. Supreme Court. The seat that Stephen Breyer is retiring from. Ketanji Brown Jackson will be, if confirmed, first African American woman to sit on the Supreme Court, 51 years old, currently, as I said, on the D.C. Court of Appeals. I'm joined now by our chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

History, the -- oh, no, first, I'm going to go to -- I'm going to go to CNN's Jeff Zeleny with the reporting on this.

Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, President Biden, we are told, extended the offer last evening in a telephone call to Judge Jackson, who lives here in Washington, D.C. He offered this position, this historic position, on the Supreme Court about one week after he sat for an interview with her at the White House. He informed the other two final contenders that they did not get the spot in phone calls this morning, we are told. But he did extend that historic offer last evening on Thursday evening.

And this is -- the rollout is expected to take place over the next few hours, with an announcement ceremony at the White House this afternoon.

And, John, this comes exactly two years to the day when Joe Biden, then a candidate for president, his candidacy indeed on the ropes in the South Carolina primary, offered the pledge that he would put the first black woman on the Supreme Court when he got that opportunity, if he got that opportunity, and now he has that opportunity.

So, he extended the offer last evening. Judge Jackson accepted the offer. And now the confirmation process will begin.

We should point out, she has already been voted on and confirmed by three Republicans, as well as all Democrats, just last year. So there is some hope inside the White House for some bipartisan support for this nomination that the news is that the offer was extended last evening, and we should see them together at the White House later today.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Jeff Zeleny, I'm very glad I went to you first with that news there. Thank you, Jeff.

I do now want to bring in our chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Tell us about the newest Supreme Court nominee.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, if you look at the traditional qualifications for the Supreme Court, Judge Jackson has everything. I mean she is impeccably qualified by all the traditional measures. She's 51 years old, which is seasoned but someone who can be -- expect to serve on the court for a long time. She was a graduate of Harvard Law School. She clerked for Stephen Breyer on the Supreme Court. Sort of like Brett Kavanaugh clerked for Anthony Kennedy, whom he replaced on the Supreme Court.

She was a private lawyer in a law firm, but also a criminal defense lawyer, a public defender, which is something that many people think the court has needed for many years, someone with that experience. She was appointed by Barack Obama to the district court in Washington, served for several years, and just last year just -- President Biden appointed her to the D.C. Circuit, which is the traditional last step for many justices who wind up on the Supreme Court. Chief Justice Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, Ruth Ginsburg, Brett Kavanaugh, all served on the D.C. Circuit before they were on the Supreme Court.

She's been on the court just for a brief period of time. She's expected to vote very similarly to Stephen Breyer. She will be part of the liberal wing of the court, which is only three justices. So the court is not expected to change in its results very much.

But, yes, it's a big deal. It's a big deal. There have only been 115 justices in the history of the Supreme Court. Anytime someone gets nominated and confirmed, it's history.

BERMAN: It is history.

Jeffrey, stand by.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it is -- it is a very big deal.

And to talk about that aspect of it, Abby Phillip is joining us now.

You know, assuming she is confirmed, she will be the first African American female justice on the Supreme Court. Which, look, maybe not officially, but at least in practice, has been disqualifying when it comes to nominees up until now, Abby.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this has been a long time in the making. And it's already been the source of some political back and forth. But I think that what you're going to see realistically, Brianna, is, I think you're going to see mainstream Republicans not picking a fight over that issue, knowing that it is a political loser.

The White House is preparing to activate a host of outside groups, to back her up, black women's organizations that have been critical to the Democratic Party's success are ready and waiting to back -- they were ready and waiting to back any of these nominees, but ready and waiting to back Judge Brown Jackson.

[08:55:01]

So, this is going to be, I think, they are prepared for the attacks, but I also think that you can see, based on how, you know, Mitch McConnell has been signaling in the last week, he doesn't want to pick a fight over the issue of the fact that she is African American. But I think you can -- you can expect the usual. They're going to pick through her rulings. They are going to dissect everything that she has ever said in her private life and in her public life, and that is going to be the real battleground on which this is fought. KEILAR: How do you think that she'll impact the opinions, the questions that are asked, bringing, you know, a background, including as a defender, that other justices do not have?

PHILLIP: I mean, look, she is coming from -- as you pointed out, I mean it's not just that she is a black woman, although that is very important. She's coming from a background, as you said, as a public defender, as someone who has -- who has worked in a different part of the legal system. I mean, I think, typically you see folks going on to the Supreme Court from much different backgrounds, from private practice, from academic backgrounds. She was a public defender.

And one of the things that a lot of advocates on the Democratic side have been saying is that they want someone who is coming at the law from a different perspective. Who is -- who can take into consideration the perspective not just of the establishment, but also of potentially the unfairness in the system that sometimes perpetrated, particularly at black and brown defendants. And I think that that's one of the factors in her nomination as well.

KEILAR: All right, a big day, Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes.

KEILAR: We know that you'll be covering this all day. Appreciate it.

BERMAN: All right, back to our other major breaking news of the day. CNN is reporting U.S. intelligence is concerned that the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv could fall within the next several days.

I'm joined now by Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group, as well as GZERO Media.

Ian, thank you so much for being with us.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: Sure.

BERMAN: Look, there's been so much going on. Number one, we do have reports that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back over a key bridge here in the south, but this is also happening, as we know, that the Russians are moving in, into Kyiv. Right now there's some fighting go on north of the city center right there.

Tell us what you see as the most important thing right now.

BREMMER: What I see is an effort by the Russians to engage in regime change in Ukraine. I mean this is really a revival of Russian empire. Putin thought that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest disaster in the 20th century. He's doing what he can to try to turn that back.

BERMAN: So, again, if Kyiv does fall within the next day, two days, the government, theoretically in that case, decapitated, maybe they move. What happens? What does that mean if you have a nation like Ukraine all of a sudden that is completely overthrown? BREMMER: Well, it means that we are back in a cold war. And in some

ways it's less dangerous than the Cold War was with the Soviet Union because they're not big enough economically to have an impact, or militarily, in places like Latin America, southeast Asia, east Asia. It's not global.

But in some ways it's more dangerous because we don't have the guardrails institutionally. And also because the Russians have a lot of gateway abilities to attack, like on cyber, for example, disinformation, that are much more -- create much more vulnerabilities, even for NATO countries that we're willing to defend militarily, but that doesn't mean that they're not vulnerable for the Russians.

BERMAN: Christine Amanpour used the word "unimaginable" a few hours ago with us, what's happening right now. The idea that a country like Ukraine could be conquered by Russia right now.

It makes me wonder, how does the rest of the world see this? Will they just let this happen? And you've been talking about maybe the most important country to watch here, which is China. If Ukraine falls, is China going to be OK with that?

BREMMER: They're not happy with it. And it's clear that behind the scenes they are very uncomfortable with the fact that negotiations are not taking place, that this is being resolved militarily. The fact that there are -- there's an offer to potentially negotiate, if Ukraine is demilitarized. Ukraine is not going to be happy about that, but it's not coming from the Europeans, it's not coming from Macron, it's coming from a Putin conversation with Xi Jinping.

Clearly, when Putin decided to attack, he would have told Xi in advance. But the Chinese perspective for the last three weeks has been, we respect Ukrainian territorial integrity. We want a negotiated process. The idea of a second cold war, which the Russians think we're already in, is absolutely not where the Chinese want to be.

BERMAN: So, again, we do have this offer of some kind of a discussion right now. The Russians putting it out there. We've got 30 seconds left.

What are you looking for in these talks? Do you even think they'll happen?

BREMMER: I'm looking for the fact that in the last three weeks the Russians have told everyone that they're not interested in invasion. They invaded. I would not take anything the Russians say at face value, especially when they're right now literally on the precipice, on the doorstep of the capital of a 44 million person democracy.

BERMAN: I think it's really important to point that out, the Russians have lied, are lying right now. Have to keep that in mind.

Ian Bremmer, thank you very much for your perspective.

BREMMER: (INAUDIBLE). [09:00:01]

BERMAN: As we're watching all these events unfold before our very eyes.

Again, the news, U.S. intelligence tells CNN that Kyiv could fall within the next day to four days. A remarkable morning here.

CNN's coverage continues right now.