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Russian Forces Continue Invasion of Ukraine; Ukrainian Capital City of Kyiv Still Controlled by Ukrainian Government Despite Attempts of Russian Forces to Take It; General David Petraeus Assesses Military Failures of Russian Offensive into Ukraine. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 28, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

WILL HURD, FORMER UNDERCOVER CIA OFFICER: -- this is not just about Ukraine. The Chinese government is watching as well, because they're looking at is this a possible model for them to go into Taiwan. And so the new equipment we're sending to Ukraine, we should put the same stuff on a plane and send that to Taiwan as well so that we're not in the same situation 18 months, 24 months from now when we're talking about Taiwan.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: That's a very good point. Many people are raising that and worrying about the trickle-down effects of this. Former Texas Congressman Will Hurd, it is great to see you. Thank you so much.

HURD: Always a pleasure.

KEILAR: And NEW DAY continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, February 28th. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. And we do begin with breaking news. Just moments ago, an incredible moment here on CNN, Matthew Chance on the front lines of Russia's attempts to take the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv. It was a failed attempt in this case. Matthew saw blown-out Russian tanks, unexploded ordnance, grenades on the ground, KIAs, dead Russians. We'll show you what he found in just a moment.

But first, new reporting overnight that overall, not just where Matthew is, Russian forces are encountering fierce resistance from not only the Ukrainian military but ordinary civilians as well. The Russians even being turned back in some places. At this moment, talks are underway between Russian and Ukrainian delegations close to the border in Belarus. Ukraine is calling for an immediate cease-fire and a Russian troop withdrawal. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says he doesn't expect any breakthroughs. CNN is monitoring these talks.

There are growing fears this morning that Belarus is prepared to send its own soldiers into Ukraine in support of the Russian invasion. That is according to Ukrainian intelligence. The United States just suspended operations at the U.S. embassy in Belarus. President Putin has placed his nuclear deterrence forces on high alert. The White House calls it another manufactured threat.

KEILAR: There are visible signs of Russian setbacks. In Kharkiv, Russian military vehicles are actually going in reverse. They are retreating from Ukrainian forces, and a video of a drone attack that the Ukrainians claim hit a column of Russian military vehicles north of the city of Kherson.

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KEILAR: According to the U.N., the latest toll for civilian deaths in Ukraine stands at 102, 304 injured. The agency does acknowledge that the true figure could be considerably higher. And the U.N. also says more than 422,000 Ukrainians have fled the country with more than half of them seeking refuge in Poland.

And protests against the war there intensifying around the world, most significantly inside Russia where police have detained nearly 6,000 protesters. Much of the world is with Ukraine. Landmarks in New York, Paris, London, and other cities as well glowing blue and yellow in a show of support with many European countries closing their airspace to Russian airplanes. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is live for us in Belgorod, which is in Russia. And he has more. You were on the other side of the border from Kharkiv where we've been seeing really all day, I guess, military assets going by you, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're absolutely right, Brianna. And certainly the Kharkiv front is certainly one of the ones that appears to be the most active as far as that Russian military campaign is concerned. And just before we went to air, we actually had a couple of rockets that were fired not far from where we are right now. And of course, a couple hours ago, we were on air, we had a Russian multiple rocket launcher go past our position as well.

The interesting thing that we're seeing here is we are seeing a lot of Russian convoys, a lot of Russian military vehicles. We are actually also seeing a lot of broken-down Russian gear as well. After the last live report that we did together, we went down the road here and we actually saw another Russian multiple rocket launcher stopped at the side of the road, seemingly needing repair. And then we also saw a howitzer that was actually laying in a ditch on the side of the road. It's completely unclear how exactly it got there or how exactly it was toppled over. Maybe the driver just didn't see that the ground there might have been soft.

But certainly, we are seeing that quite frequently, that there's Russian military gear that seems to be breaking down on this side of the border. Of course, unclear whether or not that might be a common occurrence when you use that gear in offenses of this size, but it certainly does seem as though something that's remarkable to us.

Nevertheless, again, a lot of rocket fire going from this position, and also still a lot of military equipment going into that direction, which is obviously the direction of Kharkiv, guys.

[08:05:06]

KEILAR: Fred, when you're talking about seeing broken-down equipment, this is not far into the conflict where you're seeing this.

PLEITGEN: Yes, you're absolutely right. It's still only a couple of days into the conflict, and it is really a lot more frequent than we can even show. I just said that we saw a multiple rocket launcher that broke down. We saw the howitzer that was laying in the ditch. But we also saw a bunch of broken down vehicles yesterday that needed to be towed away.

And again, from our vantage point, it's obviously impossible to tell how common an occurrence this is, maybe with track vehicles driving on asphalt roads. But it is certainly something that we have taken note of, that there are a lot of vehicles that are being towed.

The other thing that I felt was really interest, especially when you look at the Kharkiv offensive here on the part of the Russian forces, a lot of the trucks that we're seeing coming out of that war zone, the drivers there have hung their flak vests into their window. The bulletproof vests they normally wear on their bodies hanging on their windows, which obviously could indicate that they may have been taking sniper fire or afraid of taking sniper fire. That certainly is also something that we are seeing as well.

At the same time, we have to say, from what we're seeing here, from the area around here, there's a lot of military activity also around this area that's going into the Kharkiv area. It certainly does appear to us as though the Russians still do have the capacity to escalate all this. There is still a lot of gear that is standing in side villages, standing in side areas as well, seemingly ready to go at the same time, of course, as I've said, some of it doesn't seem to be working very well at times, guys.

BERMAN: Matthew, just moments ago we got word that the United States, the State Department is suspended operations at the U.S. embassy in the Belarusian capital of Minsk. In that same announcement, if I read it correctly, it is beginning what it is calling the voluntary withdrawal of U.S. personnel from the U.S. embassy in Moscow. So I'm asking you, you're standing on the Russian side of the border right now, what does that indicate you in terms of U.S. concerns maybe about Americans in Moscow?

PLEITGEN: Well, I think there certainly would be a lot of concern at this point in time when you're seeing the diplomatic relations between the countries really deteriorate. One of the things that Vladimir Putin has said in the past and seems to be indicating right now is that there are going to be consequences from the Russian side for all of these sanctions that the U.S. is imposing, the U.S. and its allies are imposing.

And it really seems as though the situation -- or it's pretty clear that the situation between the U.S. and Russia and also, obviously the U.S. -- or between Russia and the U.S.'s western allies seems to be deteriorating very quickly. You had the Russians putting their nuclear forces on high alert. That itself is obviously a massive escalation.

But then also with these sanctions, these sanctions are going to hit Russia extremely hard and extremely quickly. Vladimir Putin was in a meeting earlier today, I'm not sure if that meeting is still going on, with some of the folks from the Russian central bank to try and shore up all of this. But it is going to have a major effect, and it certainly could be the case that there will be further deterioration.

And if you look at the situation of the U.S. embassy in Russia, a lot of diplomats have been kicked out over the last couple of years. It's become a lot more difficult for the U.S. embassy here in this country to operate. And so certainly it seems as though it is very possible that that situation could become worse very quickly.

And then on top of that, you also have a situation, John, where it's going to be a lot more difficult for Americans and for westerners to actually get out of this country because more and more airlines are stopping flights to and from Russia, and certainly Russian airlines can really not fly into Europe at this point in time. So for Americans in this country, it will become more difficult. For American diplomats it certainly stands to become more difficult as the situation continues to apparently escalate, guys.

BERMAN: Look, I'm just going to put a map up here, everything in red here, and actually there are other nations not even in red. The European Union is banning Russian flights over Europe right now. So really you can't fly that way to get out of Russia, a very good point. Frederik Pleitgen, thank you very much.

KEILAR: And joining us now is retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus. He's the former commander of U.S. Central Command. He's also the former director of the CIA. General, it is great to have you and your insights here this morning. And as someone who is so familiar with what a motivated insurgency can do, and certainly the challenge they can pose, I wonder what your assessment is here of the Russian advance.

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET), CHAIRMAN, KKR GLOBAL INSTITUTE: Frankly, Brianna, this is going terribly for Vladimir Putin and his forces. They designed a flawed concept with multiple axes of advance. They haven't weighted the main effort into Kyiv, the capital. After all, the main objective is to topple the government and replace President Zelenskyy with someone who is pro-Russian.

[08:10:02]

They've failed to integrate their air and ground capabilities. They're not achieving combined arms effects of infantry armor artillery. Their logistics are a mess. And on top of all of that, Vladimir Putin's actions have united most of the world against him, with countries like Germany and so forth taking actions that no one would have imagined possible just a week ago.

So this is -- this could actually be worse for Russia than Afghanistan was for the Soviet Union. If you reflect back on that, they left in an orderly fashion. The regime they put in place stayed in power, in Kabul, at least, for another two years until they cut off funding and the country descended into civil war.

And I just can't imagine -- I have invaded a country while I was a two-star general, a division commander of about 20,000 troops of the 101st airborne division, and all of our attachments, 254 helicopters. And I can't imagine attacking a country in which virtually everyone hates us as opposed to applauding us. We should remember in Iraq they did applaud us. They hated Saddam Hussein and his sons and his henchmen and they were glad to see them go. Then things took a different course for a variety of reasons.

But in this case the entire country is united against them. Many of the adults who are not in the million are the partisan units are taking up arms against them. Nowhere is safe. You can never really rest. You can't refit, they can't pull maintenance on their vehicles without being under threat. And armored vehicles require a lot of maintenance, a lot of fuel, rearming, and all the rest of it.

So they still, the Russians, they may bring in the Belarusians. There are reports of Chechens, who are quite thuggish, joining the fight and so forth. There's a lot of combat power. They will get frustrated. They'll do enormous damage to Kyiv in particular. They'll try to turn out the lights literally. They may even starve the city if they have to.

But at the end of the day, they aren't really even getting to the outskirts. And it's because, again, none of their lines of communication behind them are secure. So I would be at a loss as to how to take on this problem having failed, because the Russians failed at the outset to take advantage of the window of a day or two when there are no real obstacles on the roads and so forth because President Zelenskyy didn't want to mobilize the country and scare it until he really had to. So that's the situation here, and it is going abysmally for Vladimir Putin and his forces literally at every level, the tactical level, individual, as you see, at the operational level, and certainly at the strategic level as well.

KEILAR: We've seen him twice this started threaten the use of nuclear weapons. Now he's got his nuclear deterrence forces, and they've been put essentially on alert. So they are a step closer to being able to launch a nuclear weapon. Do you think he would do that?

PETRAEUS: Well, I would certainly hope not. But again, you don't ride on hope. You ride on reality. And what we need to do, number one, is take that very seriously. And then number two, we have to start thinking through, how do we provide Russia an out? You never want to put a guy who has nuclear weapons truly in a corner where he feels that he has nothing left to lose.

So as the weight of the world is coming down on him, on his economy, his financial institutions, and his forces in the field -- and again, the Ukrainian will is so incredible. To see what they're doing, to see their president, he was a comedian who played the president on TV, and this is the role of a lifetime. He should get an Academy Award and many other awards for what it is he is doing. He's a natural.

And to see all this come together for the Ukrainians, who have nowhere near the mass that the Russians can bring to bear, but they're defending, they're defending their homeland and they're doing it with a homefield advantage. So what we need to do is start thinking about how does Vladimir Putin get out of this? What can we discuss with President Zelenskyy that can be provided in these diplomatic negotiations that are just beginning today to provide Putin some way out, but obviously not capitulating to the demands that he has placed on Ukraine or on NATO and the E.U.

KEILAR: Do you worry -- we've heard some people say he's crazy. Do you worry that he's unstable, or do you still see him as the calculating Putin that many people assume he is?

PETRAEUS: Well, I think it's different than that. He is calculating, but he is calculating in a bubble of his own making. We've seen these bizarre scenes of him sitting at one end of a huge room, and all of his ministers, subordinates on the other side. And it's very clear that he is not, again, in the world that the rest of inhabit in a number of different ways.

[08:15:00]

So his calculations are there, but they're just different. They are based on other factors and probably undoubtedly, not just incomplete information, but inaccurate information.

I mean, imagine being the one who has to report to him: Oh, Mr. President, this is really not going well. This is a terrible idea that you had. You want to go sit under a tree until the thought passes and let us solve this. Obviously, that's not going to be well-received.

So that's the issue that you have here. It is a very, very difficult one for the world when he starts to rattle the nuclear saber as he had. We have to be very calm about that. Well, obviously, again, preparing for that potential, that eventuality.

And again, what he is going to do in Ukraine, as they literally, they will lash out. And again, they do have quantity and mass. We have seen the columns of vehicles lined up. The question is whether, they actually get them to the right place given how clogged the roads will be over time with wreckage in destroyed vehicles, and so forth.

And the obstacles that the Ukrainian military have finally been putting in dropping bridges, for example, something they didn't do, until about Day Three or so.

So again, I can't over emphasize how difficult a position he and his forces are in, and therefore, how important it is that we try to provide a way out, but again, keep in mind, there is still enormous damage that Russia can do. They have the rocket launch thermobaric munitions, which literally suck the oxygen out of a room and out of the lungs of those who are in that space.

He has a lot that he can do, and I fear that again, in frustration, they are going to do a great deal of that, just as I said, to turn out the lights, to turn off the power.

But what has been surprising, again, is the inability to use the tools that we thought they had an overwhelming numbers, their Air Force, their cyber capabilities really haven't been brought to bear. They haven't completely grounded the Ukrainian Air Force. So what they've done is really underwhelming, they are underperforming.

There's a potential, they could get their act together. But they're strung out on seven different axes of advance, they are proceeding in the south. That has to be a worry for the Ukrainians because that literally can lead all the way up to the southern part of Kyiv. And then you could surround the country because there -- or surrounding the city, the capital, because you're on the north, you're sort of starting on the northwest, and they might come in from the east.

But that's going to take quite a bit, and of course, that unit that is coming from the south has very exposed lines of communication. And again, I just can't imagine invading like this as again, I was privileged to do with the head of the 101st Airborne Division, and we sent our 105,000 gallon tankers back, which we literally did, and they get interdicted and you grind to a halt.

So, it is a very tough plot.

KEILAR Yes, it is tough when we are watching it happen as we speak.

General David Petraeus, I want to thank you so much for being with us this morning.

PETRAEUS: Pleasure, Brianna, thanks.

BERMAN: You know, you just heard General Petraeus say it couldn't possibly be going worse for the Russians. We saw an example of it.

Matthew Chance and his team on a bridge right here north of Kyiv where the Ukrainians destroyed this Russian column in what Matthew sees here is just remarkable, unexploded ordnance, burned out Russian tanks, and vehicles, killed in action, KIAs, Russian KIAs.

We're going to have Matthew back, a live report from the frontlines, next.

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[08:22:25]

BERMAN: All right, this is CNN's special live coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and we do have breaking news.

The United States is suspending operations at the U.S. Embassy in Belarus. That's up here in Minsk. Why? Well, it comes as there is word that the Belarusians may be sending soldiers over the border into Ukraine themselves, the U.S. suspending operations there and we also understand authorizing the voluntary removal of some U.S. personnel from the U.S. Embassy in Moscow.

CNN's Kylie Atwood live at the State Department with the latest here. Tell us about these decisions -- Kylie.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John.

Two things happening this morning, just to demonstrate how quickly moving this situation is.

First of all, as you said, the U.S. Embassy is suspending operations in Belarus. And on the second hand, they are going to be allowing nonemergency personnel and family members of U.S. diplomats who are in Russia to leave the country.

We should note that this comes just a day after the State Department told all Americans who are in Russia, they should leave immediately because of all these flight cancellations that we have seen out of Russia. They said they should get on commercial flights while they still can.

And on the Belarus side, this news comes as of course, we are reporting this morning that Belarus is prepared to join the invasion into Ukraine alongside Russia. Now, that's according to Ukrainian Intelligence reported by our Jake Tapper and we are also told that the White House is watching what Belarus does here incredibly closely.

We've already seen the Biden administration slap sanctions on Belarus, but they say that they are prepared to slap even greater prices on Belarus if they continue to get intimately involved in this crisis -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Kylie Atwood for us at the State Department. Kylie, please keep us posted.

Again, you see the path of the Russian invasion into Ukraine on all these various fronts and there has been this concerted push from Belarus and elsewhere toward the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, but with our own eyes, CNN has seen the Ukrainians pushing that attack back.

Mathew Chance was there. Let us show you what he saw just moments ago.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Standby, standby. Yes, on the frontlines. I was listening to what the Admiral was saying there, John, about the Soviet era military equipment and how well it might perform, well, here ago.

Right within the past few hours, there has been a ferocious battle here on the outskirts of Kyiv. And this is one of those Russian Soviet era vehicles, which is completely burned out. You can see this is a bridge actually, it is an access point to the northwest of Kyiv, Ukrainian capital.

[08:25:12]

CHANCE: And the Russian column that has come down here has been absolutely hammered. Obviously, we still in a very exposed situation right now, but if I can just bring you along here, there's the debris everywhere, the twisted metal of these vehicles.

This is obviously just a truck carrying supplies. We saw the armored vehicle in front there. I mean, looking around, absolutely. Look at this. I mean, what kind of munitions does it take to do that to a car? To a vehicle?

You know, I know that I've just been local Ukrainian Commanders here. They've been saying that they were using Western anti-tank missiles to attack these columns.

Look, so recent in a battle, this vehicle is still smoking. There is still smoke coming out the back of that. Ammunition boxes on the ground. There is unexploded grenades in various like pineapple grenades everywhere. You know, a real scene of devastation along this bridge.

According to the local Ukrainian military that I've been speaking to, maybe as many as 10 -- I mean, look, I mean, it's a bit of, almost a cliche, but obviously, somebody has brought a memento from home. You know, and now it's scorched and lying with the debris of their, in this case, failed attack.

I mean, you know, all along this bridge, which is an access point, there are these vehicles that have been hammered by the Ukrainian forces. A bit of a Russian uniform there lying on the floor.

I can tell you, I toured this area earlier, and there are some terrible things that we can't really show you on camera in terms of dead bodies, Russians still lying here on the ground.

This vehicle here is obviously from the Russian military, it's got the letter V. Door on the side, what looks like tape or paint, that I think that stands for Vostok, which is the Russian word for East, which implies that these military equipment, they came from the eastern divisions of the Russian military.

What I was saying there, look, there's evidence and I don't want to show you this too much, but there's a body there. That's a Russian soldier and he is lying there dead on this bridge, lying there dead on this bridge, as his column has attempted to drive in and been thwarted.

Ukrainian officials and Ukrainian soldiers who I've been speaking to over the past couple of hours are absolutely enthused by this victory. They say that they've scored. And it's not just here, we have seen instances all over the country where the Ukrainians have really pushed back against the Russians. And it's really made them feel that they can win this war.

But the big question is, what will Russia do now, if it has sent in as it seems it has an underpowered invasion? There is a very strong chance, I would say, now, I live in Russia, and I've covered Russia for many, many years -- that they could double down and go in much harder and that is the big risk now for the Ukrainian military as they celebrate their victories.

The big question is what will the response of the Russian military and the Russian political leadership be -- John.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right, and I think we have Matthew Chance now, on the line still near that location. Now, back in the city itself. Matthew Chance, first of all, remarkable reporting, remarkable images and in line with what we've seen elsewhere in Ukraine, also examples of the Ukrainians pushing back the Russian attack.

Any more details about this action itself, and any sense, if it's more widespread around Kyiv, where you are.

CHANCE: Well, John, of course, these are remarkable times in Ukraine and in Kyiv, in particular, where we have seen a concerted effort, a concerted effort by Russian forces to try and probe into, you know, into the capital.

And every one of those efforts so far that we've witnessed has been pushed back either by the Ukrainian military, which is what we saw in that part northwest of the city, or whether it's by its civilians who have defend -- civilian defendants or the territorial defenses, they call themselves who have been given weapons within the past 72 hours only by the Ukrainian authorities, and they've set up their own barricades and ditches and they are sort of guarding their own neighborhoods.

And so we are seeing this extraordinarily heroic defense of the Ukrainian capitial and it's very effective as well.

[08:30:10]