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Luis Moreno-Ocampo is Interviewed about Probe on Russia Invasion; Russia Faces Financial Meltdown; Biden Delivers State of Union Tonight; Russia Warns of Strikes in Kyiv. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 01, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Actually, won't today.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Not this week.

BERMAN: Not this week. But it's great seeing you here in person. Thank you so much.

So, this huge explosion in Ukraine's second largest city hitting this government building, as we just reported. More than ten people killed, at least 35 injured. Ukraine's President Zelensky claims that Vladimir Putin is guilty of war crimes. Our special coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The International Criminal Court will open an investigation into Russia's invasion of Ukraine as rapidly as possible. That is according to a statement from ICC Prosecutor Karim A.A. Khan. After a review of his office's preliminary examination, Khan confirmed this, quote, there is a reasonable basis to believe that both alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity have been committed in Ukraine.

And joining us now to discuss is the former chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

Can you explain to us this process for opening an investigation and why you may think there are war crimes that have been committed here?

[08:35:20]

LUIS MORENO-OCAMPO, FORMER CHIEF PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT: Well, the news is that the International Criminal Court will investigate crimes, alleged crimes committed in Ukraine. That's what the prosecutor said. And he says something very important that maybe you can help, because the process requires him to go to the judges first and to get their approval. And he know he could be weeks or months. So, what he say is very important. He says, state parties could help to expedite the process.

How they can do it. A state, (INAUDIBLE), not U.S., U.S. is not a party, but they are all Europeans, all South American, many Africans, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, they can refer the situation and ask the prosecutor to do it. In this case, (INAUDIBLE), immediately the investigation will start. And the bombing you saw -- you showed today could be investigated today.

So one important news is, it's not just the prosecutor office who will deal with this. States could show support (INAUDIBLE) in real support. You show European concerns. European countries, all of them are members of International Criminal Court. They can (INAUDIBLE) the investigation referring the case to the present (INAUDIBLE).

KEILAR: It's a long process, right, if -- if --

MORENO-OCAMPO: And the second point maybe -- yes.

KEILAR: If Putin is -- if this is -- were to proceed against Putin, it's a long process. What does he have to fear here? What should he fear?

MORENO-OCAMPO: Well, in my time, we have -- Ghaddafi was indicted in three months. So it could be shorter. Shorter. The problem is, we should -- you show this video, bombing a building. The issue -- that is not enough to prove a war crime. You prove, who did it. Who ordered it. What happened.

So, one problem is, to start investigation, easy to get state -- European state support, African state support and (INAUDIBLE) investigation start tomorrow. That (INAUDIBLE) saying. You know, to prove they're war crimes, you need evidence. CNN is showing videos. People on the ground could film what happened, could film people doing these crimes and send to prosecutor office. In the past, in Libya, the office of the prosecutor took into consideration video to indict the president. So, (INAUDIBLE) a long time is -- depends on the evidence collected.

KEILAR: It may also require someone who made that decision, this is where we are going to fire this missile. These coordinates. How do you prove that?

MORENO-OCAMPO: Well, there are many things to do. It's only -- who ordered -- who ordered this mission is very important. That's a point.

There are two type of crimes here, war crimes, or crimes against humanity means what's happening on the ground on this moment, plus aggression crime. Aggression crime use a military force into sovereign state is easy. Putin decided. The problem, security council had to make a solution first and therefore it will not happen. War crime are happening probably and could be proven. Yes, that's if -- that's the job of the prosecutors to collect the evidence to show this shelling, this bombing was ordered by these people knowing they would kill civilians. That would be -- should be proven.

But imagine if CNN is showing this is a bombing and this is a commander x x who ordered, OK, and then you speak with him. That would increase enormously the preventative (ph) impact of this activity.

So, the problem with the ICC, the International Criminal Court, could be not alone. We need state supporting, CNN support, people understanding how the law could be used to protect them.

KEILAR: The eyeballs in the investigation may provide the protection as well.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, thank you so much for being with us.

MORENO-OCAMPO: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: So, moments ago, a journalist confronted British Prime Minister Boris Johnson over what she calls the potential for World War III. See what happened here as the Russian convoy is approaching the Ukrainian capital as we speak.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:43:32]

KEILAR: Moments ago, Ukrainian journalist Daria Kaleniuk made an emotional plea to U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson. She broke down in tears, begging him to do more to protect Ukrainians from Russian troops and the children as well who are caught in the crossfire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARIA KALENIUK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ANTICORRUPTION ACTION CENTER: Britain guarantees our security under Budapest memorandum. So, you're coming to Poland. You're not coming to Kyiv, Prime Minister. You're not coming to Lviv. Because you're afraid. Because NATO is not willing to defend. Because NATO is afraid of a World War III. But it is already starting. And this is the Ukrainian children who are there taking the hit.

You're talking about more sanctions, Prime Minister, but Romana Bromovich (ph) is not sanctioned. He's in London. His children are not in the bombardments. His children are there in London.

(INAUDIBLE) children are in Netherlands, in Germany, in mansions. When are all these mansions seized? I don't see that. I see that my family members, my team members are saying that we are crying. We don't know where to run. This is what is happening, Prime Minister.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It's something to see and every day that the Russian troops continue their advance in Ukraine, these are the questions that will be asked of leaders around the world who are, yes, there are sanctions, there are measures being taken and there is unity, but if you're in Ukraine or have loved ones there, it's a fair question, could more be done?

[08:45:02]

KEILAR: Yes, and certainly I think what we're seeing as well is that children are at risk. And I think we're at this moment too where we're watching if that is increasingly going to take place. The specter of that is really what President Volodymyr Zelensky was raising before the European parliament today as well.

BERMAN: All right, one thing that is being done is clearly the sanctions here and the Russian economy is in crisis, reeling from the crushing barrage of western measures. The ruble crashed to a record low. The Moscow stock exchange shuttered Monday and again today.

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans here with really the impact.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has been just a disaster for the Russian economy. Six days after that invasion of Ukraine, the ruble is worth less than a penny, an all-time low. The Russian Central Bank rushed in, jacked up interest rates to intervene and try to support the ruble. But, look, the global power of that central bank has been choked off by western sanctions. The EU and the Americans specifically targeting the central bank, walling it off. Walling off its ability to use its foreign exchange reserves to protect its currency and finance this war.

Catastrophe for the Russian stock market. The pain so deep for Russian companies, authorities won't even open the stock market for a second day in a row now.

Meanwhile, U.S. exchanges halting stock trading for several Russian companies. And for Russian citizens, it all means sky high interest rates to borrow money, and lines at the bank to withdraw their cash. The west has unleashed a financial war in response to Putin's tanks and rockets. Piece by piece, the U.S., the U.K., the EU, and allies are walling off Russia's economy from the global economy. Nearly a trillion dollars' worth of Russian assets have been frozen by sanctions. That's according to the French finance minister. A trillion dollars in a weekend. The consequence for Russia is clear, it's isolation. For everyone else, Putin's aggression feeds into the global inflation story.

A top energy producer, Russia's energy has not been sanctioned yet. But paying for shipments of its exports could be tricky. Some banks are unplugged from the global banking system, that SWIFT messaging service. We're going to hear more about that in the days ahead.

BERMAN: And it's having an impact. Look, it is having an impact. Nic Robertson was saying people on the streets are feeling it, in some cases not using -- being able to use their bank cards. Oligarchs feeling it too, right? The question is, is any of this enough to put enough pressure on Vladimir Putin to change his actions? ROMANS: You know, he went to this war knowing full well it would hurt

his ruble, it would hurt his stock market, it would hurt his economy. He had tried to wall himself off over the past eight years or so. He knew, though, there would be pain and he invaded anyway. So, what's in the mind of Vladimir Putin? We just don't know.

BERMAN: And, again, a lot of this has to do with what Russians do. How does it change their view of Vladimir Putin and the risks that they're willing to take.

ROMANS: That's right.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, thank you very much.

So, the breaking news this morning, there is a Russian convoy, 40 miles long, approaching the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv. And CNN reports the Russians are more willing to hit civilian area and use even heavier firepower. We're live on the ground. Our special coverage continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:05]

BERMAN: In the middle of this Russian invasion of Ukraine, President Biden delivers his first State of the Union Address. Clearly it has to be weighing on his mind as he speaks to Congress and the nation tonight.

Joining us now, CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon, author of the new book "Lincoln and the Fight for Peace," even more relevant with peace and democracy hanging in the balance right now in Europe.

John, President Biden has to give a speech tonight, which isn't the one he expected to give a month ago.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. That's exactly right. And these speeches are worked on for months. But rarely have you had a State of the Union with the sense of real time high drama, of an international crisis that is unfolding, the U.S. and the U.S. president marshalling a coalition to defend democracy.

And this has, of course, been one of Biden's core theme for years, democracy versus autocracy. But this is a proving ground. And in a time when he's faced a lot of headwinds, from popularity, a lot of criticisms despite progress against the pandemic and the economy, you know, he's gotten credit, even from people like former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, for his leadership in helping bolster this broad coalition. So it's a moment of high drama tonight. This is not your typical State of the Union.

BERMAN: If freedom is at stake, which it is in Ukraine.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: And we see it from Volodymyr Zelensky addressing the European parliament, freedom is at stake there, and President Biden, no doubt, will address that tonight. You've written speeches before. How do you go from freedom is at stake in the world to I've got money to pay for bridges in the infrastructure bill? How do you -- and I don't mean to be glib here.

AVLON: No, no.

BERMAN: How do you thread that line? Do you bother touting achievements and talking about a domestic agenda or do you stick to the big subject at hand?

AVLON: You do, but you do it in the back half, and here's how you do it. Part of defending democracy abroad is showing it can work at home. And, you know, my fellow Americans, my fellow members of Congress, we need to show that we can deliver. And here's what we've done and here's what we need to do. Because you need to -- look, he can take all the credit in the world, and there will be a little bit and there should be about the progress that's made. Six million new jobs, you know, low unemployment. But people are feeling the pain of inflation, the pain of gas prices, which could go up as a result of this conflict. So he's going to have to show empathy for that and then a plan to address not, not just feelings of empathy.

BERMAN: So the audience, not just Congress, not just the American people, but really truly the world. So what does he say to the people in Ukraine and what does he say to Vladimir Putin?

AVLON: He says to the people of Ukraine, you are not alone. We -- he adds even more urgency to this idea of democracy standing together. These international, multilateral organizations which he's believed in for his entire career. This is the proving ground.

And, ironically, Putin has reminded people of their relevance, of their urgency. He has solidified the resolve. And American leadership matters. And to Putin he needs to stand up and simply say, we refuse to live in a world where might makes right.

[08:55:01]

And we will stand up to bullies. We will stand up for democracy.

And there's a line there because he's not -- he's not going to risk getting in a hot war. But this is a really dramatic moment to highlight the basic difference of his vision and his presidency, certainly with his predecessor. But he's going to have to pivot to domestic issues as well because he can't ignore those things.

BERMAN: Vladimir Putin, NATO unifier. Can he also be, you know, U.S. partisan unifier?

John Avlon, thank you very much.

AVLON: Thank you.

KEILAR: Let's get to some breaking news now. We are getting word that the Russian military is warning of strikes

against facilities in Kyiv, which, of course, is the fear that we are -- many are experiencing as they're watching this Russian convoy outside of Kyiv. It's 40 miles long.

I want to go to Nic Robertson live for us in Moscow.

Nic, just to be clear here, tell us about this statement from the Russian military but also this warning that residents of Kyiv living near Relinodes (ph), which I would be would be cell towers, correct me if I'm wrong, that they need to leave their homes. What's going on here?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, it's very hard to know precisely what the Russian military means in this statement. State media here, TAS (ph), is saying that the Russian military is warning that they're going to strike inside Kyiv. They're warning civilians to get out of the way. They're saying they'll use high precision weapons and they'll be targeting the SBU and 72nd main PSO facilities.

Now, they indicate what they're targeting here is Ukrainian messaging systems, messaging that is attacking the Russians. It is very hard to know precisely what they're speaking about here. But the warning itself to civilians speaks for itself. This is Russia announcing that it is going to launch precision munitions into built up civilian neighborhoods in Kyiv. And in the Russian playbook, the fact that they're announcing this and telling civilians to get out of the way, later we may well hear them use that as a defense that they warned people to get out of the way ahead of these strikes and therefore cannot be accountable for civilians who, in one breath they say are supporting what they call Ukrainian nationalists on the ground, and that somehow Russia's hands will be clean of the culpability of any civilian killings that could happen from this.

But it is a very chilling warning and speaks to the escalation that's coming, it speaks to Emmanuel Macron, the French president's assessment of his conversation with President Putin last night, that Putin is preparing to ramp up and increase his attacks on civilian neighborhoods. It speaks to the attack that we saw with a massive munition in the heart of -- in the heart of Kharkiv earlier on today. And an escalation, this is what the Russian military are saying on civilian neighborhoods.

KEILAR: Yes, look, it's not really up to Russia to determine if it is -- whether or not they are responsible. They're not the ones holding themselves accountable, clearly.

Nic Robertson, live for us from Moscow.

And CNN's special coverage will continue here in just a moment as the convoy is approaching Kyiv.

Clarissa Ward standing by there.

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