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Russian Forces Continue Invasion of Ukraine; Reports Indicate Russian Military Targeting Civilian Areas of Ukrainian Cities; 2,000+ Ukrainian Civilians Killed So Far; During Invasion Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy Discusses Aid He Requested from Other Countries to Fight Russian Invasion. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 02, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: What you didn't hear last night from President Biden was a George H.W. Bush like this will not stand, which is what he said before we committed troops to Kuwait.

The president has got a problem here because he is fighting this with one hand behind his back, in part because we don't have a strong strategic interest in Ukraine, even if we have a very big strategic interest in keeping Putin contained, pushing him back, and, of course, the fear you just heard in a word or two from President Biden yesterday that Ukraine may not be the end of this, that in Putin's mind, Moldova may be next. NATO countries, other neutrals in the Baltics that we have been hearing about, Sweden, Finland, who are thinking about now whether they want to join NATO.

And so he's got to draw a very sharp distinction between American military noninvolvement in Ukraine and saying not one inch of NATO territory. But if you're watching a horror play out on your TV screen, as we all are here, it's hard for many Americans to figure out why would we defend a NATO member and not defend the Ukrainians.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: They may be watching Putin with his gateway drug, right, to the Baltic states. It's entirely possible here. Kim Dozier, David Sanger, thank you so much to both of you.

CNN's breaking news coverage continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, March 2nd. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. And the breaking news, new Russian attacks this morning on Ukraine and civilians being hit.

This shows a strike in Kharkiv, this is the second most populous city in Ukraine, a regional police department hit. Kharkiv's national university also damaged. Preliminary reports say four people have been killed, nine injured amid this intense shelling and bombing across the city just today. Overnight, the area of Kharkiv city council, the city council was hit

by a military strike. We're expecting to have video from that scene shortly.

Also overnight, Russia's defense ministry claimed they've captured the key Black Sea port city of Kherson right here. You can see it down here. New video shows a man waving a Ukrainian flag in front of Russian tanks that have occupied the Freedom Square in Kherson. Now, Ukrainian defense officials deny that the city has fallen. CNN has not been able to independently verify the Russian claims.

KEILAR: And according to Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, 6,000 Russian soldiers have been killed since the invasion began seven days ago. CNN cannot confirm that number.

And take a look at this, remarkable new video of Ukrainian nuclear plant workers and also local citizens filling the streets in an effort to block a Russian military advance toward the power plant. Ukraine is asking the International Atomic Energy Agency for immediate assistance to protect nuclear sites out of fear of what might happen if they fall into Russian hands.

And just into CNN, Ukraine has confirmed that it will join Russia for a second round of talks today. So let's go now to CNN's Alex Marquardt live in Kyiv to see what it is like on the ground there even as talks continue. What can you tell us, Alex?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, it is clear the Russians now moving from military to civilian targets, even though they deny they are targeting civilians. They are saying that they're going to be targeting communications and information structures to stop those information attacks against Russia from getting out. They're trying to contain the narrative, although the cat is really out of the bag here.

So this is the TV tower here in Kyiv, about three miles from the city center. It was hit by a missile just yesterday. There were missiles that landed all over this area. Take a look at this. This is a lamppost that was melted and shredded, completely solid, but you can see the heat from the blast and what it did to that.

Here on the street, pockmarks all over from that attack. And I want to ask my cameraman to follow me across the street. That there is -- was a gym. You can see it is still smoldering. It is -- there has been a fire there burning for about 24 hours. There is still gym equipment down there on the ground floor.

If you look over this way, more destruction everywhere. This, Brianna and John, is where around -- well, five people, according to Kyiv authorities, were killed. You can see that car right there was destroyed as well. And then just behind it, yet another civilian building, that is an auto parts shop where the owners and staff are continuing to clean up.

[08:05:10] So destruction everywhere, clearly civilian buildings that were hit, civilians who were killed. And I should note that this is an area called Babyn Yar. This is where 33,000 Jews were killed during the holocaust in one of the most horrific massacres of World War II. And so now you have a president, President Putin, who is attacking Ukraine, he's the guy who constantly invokes World War II and what the Nazis did back then, and he is attacking this highly symbolic, hallowed area and killing people as Russia continues to claim that they are not targeting civilians. John?

KEILAR: Very clearly targeting civilians there. Alex, thank you.

BERMAN: All right, CNN just got word from Ukrainian officials. They are now saying that 2,000 Ukrainian civilians, and that may include military members as well, so 2,000 Ukrainians have been killed so far in this Russian invasion of Ukraine. That is a new number we are getting from Ukrainian officials. We're going to get much more on that. That's a pretty high number at this point. And it comes as there is a new message this morning from Ukrainian president to his people on their collective fight for survival.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We hardly slept for seven nights. While we sleep, but anxiously. My dears, the time will come when we'll be able to sleep. But it will be after the war, after the victory, and a peaceful country as we need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And just to clarify, that number of 2,000 killed from the Ukrainian officials is just civilians.

Want to bring in CNN's Matthew Chance. He is in Ukrainian capital. And we did just hear again from President Zelenskyy. And Matthew, it's just one part of the remarkable reporting you've done, you actually spoke to the president in his bunker.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I did, indeed. We were moved to a -- invited to an undisclosed location in the center of Kyiv, a specific secret location. We're then taken into a car and driven somewhere else. We didn't know where it was, but still in the center of the city. And we were sort of herded down through the sandbags and the machine gun posts into the bowels of a huge building in the center of Kyiv, and that's where eventually President Zelenskyy arrived.

He mentioned there he hadn't slept for seven days, and like many other Ukrainians, feels the same feeling, a lot of stress. And when he appeared, he was in good spirits, I'd say, but he did look like he was tired. His eyes were bloodshot. He was pale. He was wearing the green military fatigues that have become so characteristic of his public appearances over the course of the past week or so, or even longer, since this conflict with Russia has been raging.

I spoke to him about a number of issues, but particularly about the refusal of the United States and other NATO countries to impose a no- fly zone. Take a listen to what he said about that -- what I said about that and what his answer was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHANCE: The United States has said that it will not enforce a no-fly zone over this country. And it won't put boots on the ground. Do you think it is now time for President Biden and other western countries to reconsider that and to help you not just with military aid, but with manpower?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I've already turned to some foreign leaders with this request. I believe that leaders must support democratic states of the world who are keen to defend such principles. The powerful issue of closing the airspace helps us tremendously.

This does not mean dragging NATO into this war. We spoke many times with President Biden, and I'm thankful to him for these opportunities and support. But they also did not hear me. I've been telling them that Ukraine will fight hardest of all. You will see. But us alone, against Russia, we would not be able to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHANCE: Well, John, at the moment here in Kyiv, it is very, very quiet indeed. There were big explosions that we had yesterday in which I think five people were killed. We're reporting from that scene now, of course. But it is very, very quiet at the moment, even though we all know that on the outskirts of this city, there are thousands of Russian troops, a huge column of Russian armor making its way to the outskirts in what many people anticipate will be a big assault on the Ukrainian capital.

And so there are still hopes that there could be a diplomatic kind of outcome to this. There are talks underway, a second round going to be taking place later on today, according to Ukrainian and Russian officials.

[08:10:01]

But there is still that sort of sword, that hammer hanging over this city when it comes to the potential use of very hard Russian force.

BERMAN: Matthew, that number we were just given from the state emergency services of 2,000 civilians killed now in Ukraine, I suppose it's not surprising given the scope and the intensity of the Russian attacks, but you can see the price that the Ukrainian people are paying.

CHANCE: Yes. Unfortunately, that's true. When you have heavy weaponry, battling in civilian population centers, in close quarters, in street, we saw the pictures of buildings being hit, whether intentionally or not, by the Russians, there is inevitably going to be that kind of damage to civilian life. And the real problem is, the even bigger problem, is that as this

battle intensifies, and if the Russians do step up their tactics and use much more force than they have done so far, those numbers could, they could skyrocket. We are talking about very high concentrations of civilians that are in the line of fire, in front of a massive Russian armored force. And it is whether we think, is Russia capable of flattening civilian areas like this one. I think many people feel, and I think the record shows in the past they have done that.

BERMAN: I think the answer is yes. Matthew Chance, thank you for the work that you and your team are doing.

KEILAR: And joining us now is retired Major General Michael Repass. He commanded U.S. special operations command Europe until 2013. He's now a board member at the Global Special Operation Forces Foundation. He's been directly involved with Ukraine security matters since 2016. Sir, thank you so much for being with us. There are, of course, Americans who have trained Ukrainians. You've been a big part of that, and I think people watching have been surprised by the effectiveness of the Ukrainian military. I wonder if you are.

MAJOR GEN. MICHAEL S. REPASS, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): No, I'm not surprised at all. This is -- this is the manifestation of not only the U.S.' work, but NATO's work, since 2014, 2015 timeframe, when we provided extensive advisory support and turning support to the Ukrainian armed forces.

But I would also say that there are some internal dynamics in Ukraine that have really contributed to the defenses that we see so far. First off, they're superbly led by combat experienced officers. The second thing is they prepared for this day. They prepared for this scenario that they find themselves in. They passed laws. They have done a lot of work internally to reorganize and to reform. Their education and training programs have been reformed with the help of advisers from the U.S. and NATO. And they were on the brink of really reforming all their entire doctrine.

The assistance provided by the western powers and the western nations has been excellent, and they're very well trained at the tactical level. But I think what surprised people the most is the resilience of the people of Ukraine. That, too, is not by mistake. Beginning last year, with the NATO's comprehensive defense handbook that was published, Ukraine worked on their resilience internal to their society. They've actually prepared their population for this day when it might come. They passed a law back in July on resilience and resistance and national defense, and specifically authorized the stand-up of the territorial army. Along with that, we talked about structure for the resistance.

KEILAR: And we have seen that. We have seen these territorial forces taking shape before our eyes. I wonder, what can they do, and can they do anything about, one, this Russian convoy, and, two, this increasing appetite on the part of Vladimir Putin to be indiscriminate when it comes to civilians and using heavy weapons on them?

REPASS: Yes, so great questions. First of all, on the territorial army, it was a cadre organization that was authorized by the government to roll in the militias, to provide some structure and legal basis for civilians taking up arms against either a foreign nation or even some of their own citizens that are collaborators, so to speak. So the legal basis has been provided there. The training has not been, I would say, that of infantry combat troops or even at the police level. These are strictly volunteers that go out there.

In regards to that convoy, I have to leave it to the tactical expertise of the Ukrainians out there.

[08:15:06]

They know what's going on, they know what's out there. I'm sure if they have the capability to do it either with conventional forces, special forces or even the territorials, they will get after it.

It's a matter of capability. It's not a matter of will, because they have will and they will fight to the last bullet, the last rifle, the last man.

KEILAR: Do they have -- the territorial forces and Ukrainian military, can they withstand a sustained attack on Kyiv?

REPASS: Okay. So, now we get into what's going on on the ground in the destruction campaign. So what we see is that tactically the Russians are stalled. They realize that force on force that they're taking extreme casualties.

As a result, they're backing off and they're now employing their highly destructive capabilities. Precision weapons, thermo baric weapons, indiscriminate bombing, cluster bombs, cluster munitions, those things.

So, now, they're going to embark on a campaign of immense destruction of first off the infrastructure that supports government control of the people, you get the word out, command and control, and all elements of society. They have attacked museums and burned them. They have blown up government buildings. They're going after the infrastructure so that the government can't talk to the people and keep a coherent defense going.

So we have to enable them through direct assistance, direct foreign assistance of aid, military aid, to be able to go out and destroy the things that are destroying them. So we're in a very critical time now, and the window is closing to do anything that is easy or simple. It is absolutely closed. Everything from here on out is going to be hard.

KEILAR: It is even hard to hear you say that. But, you know, that's how it feels as we are watching all of this go on and develop in Ukraine.

General Repass, thank you so much for giving us your analysis on this. We really appreciate it.

REPASS: Thank you. KEILAR: So we're getting word that Ukraine is now asking for

immediate help in safeguarding nuclear sites. You see this, this is brand-new video that is in. These are workers blocking Russians from advancing. Remarkable examples of resistance, trying to get them away from the nuclear facility, even as Russia is stepping up its attacks on civilian targets.

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[08:21:18]

BERMAN: All right, news in just moments ago from Ukraine's state emergency service that more than 2,000 civilians have been killed in Ukraine since the beginning of the Russian invasion, not even one week ago.

Now, we should note the United Nations estimate is a bit lower than that, that number, 2,000 civilians killed from the Ukrainian state emergency service.

I'm joined by CNN's Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS".

Fareed, based on what you know of Vladimir Putin, let me put it differently this version of Vladimir Putin, that number, which could grow a lot, concern concerning at all?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": No. Look, Putin has never been particularly concerned about civilian casualties or the loss of human life. The Russian operations in Syria were brutal. The Russian operations in Chechnya probably killed a quarter of a million people and leveled the entire city of Grozny virtually to the ground.

So the issue is not Putin's brutality. What worries me even more, sad to say, is his unpredictability. He seems to now be more emotional, less calculating, less rational than he has ever been before, and that makes it very hard to figure out how do you stop him, how do you negotiate with him? What are the levers to pull?

You know, we're dealing with a very volatile situation. One man, who controls the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, making decisions of what appear to be largely by himself and without a clear path of cost benefit analysis going on.

BERMAN: Fareed, we have one piece of new video I want to show you right now, in some ways symbolic of what else we have seen in Ukraine, if we can look at this right now. This is video from a nuclear power plant where plant workers and civilians just took to the streets to block a Russian military column here. And this is striking because we're seeing examples of this all over Ukraine. Ukrainian people rising up, a nation of 44 million people saying no, we won't be conquered.

And I just wonder if you have a guy like Putin, who is not willing to budge, and have this nation that says no, we're not going to let you come in here, where this goes next? ZAKARIA: Well, what it tells you is that the war after the war, the struggle after the military conflict proper is going to be very, very difficult, long for the Russians. By which I mean even if the Russian forces are able to take cities like Kyiv, by which I mean occupy the government buildings, take control of the headquarters of the security services, every Russian tank, every time it turns a corner, goes down a street, is going to face the prospect of a Molotov cocktail, of perhaps a rocket launched grenade -- something or the other that represents exactly what you're describing, which is the indomitable will of the Ukrainian people, not to be conquered.

And that is a very, very difficult process. Even in situations where you have had less impressive displays of nationalism and will, it's hard. The United States knows how hard it is.

Ukraine is a flat country, there are no mountains and caves, but occupying cities is very hard. What you will see is urban resistance and urban warfare, which can be very bloody and, again, my fear about Vladimir Putin is that his answer to this will be to level whole buildings, level whole blocks.

[08:25:03]

You know, this is a situation where you could imagine it can get much, much worse than 2,000 civilian casualties.

BERMAN: Although that will rely on Russian conscripts, Russian conscripts who are willing to pull the trigger on their Ukrainian brothers and sisters if Vladimir Putin orders it.

You mentioned Fareed, this something people don't necessarily like talking about when everyone wants to stand up to a degree for Vladimir Putin, but off ramps. How do you give him a way out of this?

ZAKARIA: Look, we have -- the strategy has to be that you are as tough as you need to be and you make it absolutely clear as I said that the Russian bayonet will meet a brick wall.

On the other hand, there has to be a way to climb down. Most wars end with some kind of brokered solution, and the Ukrainian president understands that. The Ukrainians are negotiating right now in Belarus. And so as -- I think at some point the secretary of state should get involved, perhaps Emmanuel Macron, to say, look, we are not going to allow this aggression to stand. But we still remain willing to talk about security and stability in Europe.

I don't know if that's enough for Vladimir Putin, but we do know one thing, John, which is he totally controls the media space in Russia. So if he wants to climb down in some way, it is not as hard for him as an elected Western democratic leader with a free press. If Vladimir Putin says he achieved his objectives, in Ukraine, every Russian television news anchor and commentator will say exactly that, and praise him for that.

So, you know, he has that capacity to make a blunder, and walk back and yet it is not as life-threatening or career-threatening as it would be in a Western democracy.

BERMAN: Fareed Zakaria, great to see you this morning.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" airs Sunday at 10:00 a.m.

Russian troops are advancing in parts of Ukraine, intense shelling in the country's second largest city. We have a live report from the ground ahead.

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