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January 6 Committee Says Trump and Eastman Violated the Law; Ukraine is Asking For No-Fly Zone Against Russia; IAEA Engaged with Ukraine Nuclear Facilities; Pres. Biden Says Too Early To Claim War Crimes; Senator King Says Putin Can't Hold Ukraine. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 03, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In a new court filing the January 6 committee says, Donald Trump and lawyer John Eastman violated multiple laws in their efforts to overturn the election results in 2020.

The filing says, quote, "Evidence and information available to the committee establishes a good faith belief that Mr. Trump and others may have engaged in criminal or fraudulent acts and that plaintiff's legal assistance was used in furtherance of those activities.

Joining us now, CNN Political Analyst and Washington Correspondent for the "New York Times" Maggie Haberman.

Maggie, this is a committee telling a judge, we believe there is enough evidence to suggest that John Eastman and Donald Trump broke the law. And the essence of their argument was, that when Eastman and Trump were arguing that Mike Pence could unilaterally overturn the election they knew that he couldn't. That the law wrote otherwise. Which you've reported, was also what they were being told repeatedly by Mike Pence and others.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right, John. And look, the contours of this, a couple of things, this is not a criminal complaint, this is not a criminal referral. This is a filing in a -- in a civil case.

But, it does lay out the ark of what the January 6 committee, I think, is going to argue in its report and possibly a criminal referral. We don't know yet. Suggesting that Donald Trump and John Eastman knew that what they were saying was not true.

And, I believe, that part of what they're using for that logic is that Donald Trump had been told by his campaign advisors, in blunt terms, that his chances were not good in making the election turn out his way after the fact -- after it had taken place. And yet, they persisted with this. And to your point, they were told by Mike Pence and by Mike Pence's

team, that they did not believe that Pence had anything other than administerial duty on January 6, to certify the Electoral College. That's at the heart of what you're seeing here.

It's a really interesting court filing and I would urge everyone to read it, because it has a lot of interesting detail from the interviews that they've done and from transcripts.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: How do you think Trump is viewing this, assuming he is reading it?

HABERMAN: I mean, I don't think Trump is likely to be reading the court filing. But, I do think that, you know, Trump is generally concerned about investigations. I think he lost a big piece against him recent -- or won a big piece against him recently, essentially when it became clear that the Manhattan district attorney is not going to indict Donald Trump personally.

So, this remains one of the investigations out there looming against him. But whether they're going to take the action of making a criminal referral is a big open question right now.

BERMAN: And Maggie, you talk about the filing itself, which is a revelatory. There's a lot in the from the testimony. I shows just how much the January 6 committee has. What did you find particularly interesting? Was it the correspondence between the Mike Pence team and John Eastman himself?

HABERMAN: The correspondence, which "The Washington Post" had actually reported. And again, John, a lot of this has been out already, it's just that they're assembling the pieces in a specific way and they have these people under oath in testimony, which is a big deal.

I was very struck by the testimony from Marc Short, you know, the vice president's former chief of staff, who makes clear that Pence and Pence's team were clear with Trump's folks, we can't do this.

This is significant in part, John, because people around Trump have been claiming for a while that Pence was leaving open the idea that he might do this or that he was less specific.

And it's certainly possible that Pence used sort of neutral language with people, because that's the way Pence talks in meetings. But, these folks are making very clear, under oath, that this was never a possibility they were considering.

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BERMAN: Maggie Haberman, thank you very much for helping us understand this, this morning.

HABERMAN: Thank (ph) --

KEILAR: Some more on the breaking news. Russia is not escalating its rhetoric by saying that the third World War will be nuclear and that it will be destructive. And this is coming as Russia intensifies attacks on major cities in Ukraine at this very hour.

Joining us now is Alexandra Ustinova, she is a Ukrainian member of Parliament. And we thank you very much for being with us. I wonder, do you think Vladimir Putin is real about this nuclear threat?

ALEXANDRA USTINOVA, UKRAINIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: I don't know. Only Vladimir Putin knows what he is real about. And the one thing I can say, if he wants to do something he is going to do that. Because, Ukraine was a neutral country in 2014, when we were invaded.

We didn't do anything to provoke him a week ago and it's a total destruction, our cities are being burnt to ash, as you can see that. And that's just because he wanted to do it. And it just a matter how far the west, the Europeans, the United States and the NATO would let him go.

KEILAR: When the west, when the U.S., when they hear Russia making these kinds of nuclear threats, it's very scary, right? This sort of -- and Russia knows this. This harkens to the -- this harkens to the ramifications that the west is most afraid of. So, what is your message to the U.S. and to the west knowing that?

USTINOVA: So, first of all, Vladimir Putin is psycho and we should be clear about that. And he's -- he will be going as far as we'll let him go. As the United States, NATO, the E.U. would let him go.

He's a bully that keeps saying, I have arms, I have nuclear weapons and I can do whatever I wanted to. And he doesn't need a provocation for that. He basically believes he can do anything and that's what he has been doing so far in the world.

He invaded Georgia and there was no response. He invaded partly Moldova and there was no response. Look what he did in Syria. Look what he did in other countries.

Right now there is a public execution of Ukrainians in front of the whole world by Russian missiles, Russian airplanes, by the Russians. And we have been begging to protect our sky, we're not asking to fight for us. We're just asking for technical protection of the sky. We're asking for stronger sanctions.

And, unfortunately, even here the world has to go into a compromise and they would put sanctions on Russia, but exclude the energy sector out of it. And that's what feeds Putin and his army.

They would turn off SWIFT, but they turn SWIFT only for seven banks out of 300 banks in Russia. Those are partial sanctions. And Putin understands that he can go as far as he wants, because even in the financial sector there's not enough reaction.

KEILAR: Let's talk about the no-fly zone. That's something that you want. What do you say to American officials, western officials, say hey look, if you want us to enforce a no-fly zone that is essentially asking us to go into military altercation potentially. What do you say to them about that?

USTINOVA: I always ask him, where is the debt -- the red line? How many deaths would you need to see on TV to do that? Because so far we have more than 2,000 killed. And to be honest, in the '90s Ukraine was a nuclear country.

We gave up our nuclear weapons and were promised by three countries, the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia, that they will keep our sovereignty. And in case anything happens to Ukraine we will have the protection.

Now, we hear the same about the NATO countries. I can tell you, the NATO countries are not so sure about, especially the Baltic countries, Poland, they're not sure that we'll have the protect.

Because we were promised the protection in the '90s when we gave up our nuclear weapons and we don't have it. We're being executed in front of the whole world. So, 24/7 you turn on -- you turn on the TV and you see Ukrainian die -- Ukrainians die, children die. He is bombing the hospitals. He's bombing orphanages. Preschools with vacuum bombs.

So after that, we keep asking. We had a promise, we had a treaty that we will have the protection. We are not asking American soldiers -- well I don't know, German soldiers to come and protect us on the land. Give us the weapons to fight in the air, to protect the air. That's what the no-fly zone is about.

KEILAR: There seems to be something we're hearing a lot from Ukrainians, which is -- and yes, Ukraine is not NATO. Ukraine is not in the E.U.

USTINOVA: We're an associated member.

KEILAR: But we've heard -- but we've heard from Ukrainians saying, they're taking -- they've made moves to become more democratic, the Ukrainian military has been trained and clearly quite well by western forces as well. And they're being asked to take these steps towards democracy without some of the protections.

You know, how are -- how are you seeing that?

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USTINOVA: I think that if Ukraine loses right now it means that democracy lost. We now have a coalition of about 90 countries who united to support Ukraine, mostly western countries. If 90 countries in the world cannot do anything to one single bully, and if the tyranny wins and democracy loses, that's mean that there's something wrong with this world. Was there world order? Was there collective defense treaties?

We have Russia sitting on the Security Council of the United Nations, telling the world what to do for security. The country that threats everybody with nuclear weapons and nobody does anything about it. So, now if Ukraine loses, if Ukraine goes down, if it's totally burned

to ash because that's what he's going to do and, unfortunately, we don't even have a corridor to take people out of the occupied cities. We have children, we have women stuck there. If they are -- if they live closer to the Polish border they still have a chance to get out. Otherwise, if you live in the eastern part and the central part, you're totally surrounded by Russian soldiers. You cannot get out.

So, this is a public execution of a whole nation in front of the whole world. And nobody can anything. And he would keep going, he would go for other countries. Because, the world cannot even respond in strong sanctions because you protect your own pockets.

You don't want to pay extra for the gas or for the oil and you don't want to put stronger sanctions on him. You don't want to shut down their banking system. You took seven out of 300 banks and you call this a reaction.

We have thousands of people dying, civilians dying every day and the world is still hesitating whether we should step in with the sanctions or whether we should give Ukraine weapons to protect the sky.

Everybody has seen what Israeli did. It's so-called the Iron Dome that they're using to shut down the missiles. We're asking for the same. We're asking to give us the protection for our sky.

But, unfortunately, we see the western leaders being hesitant. They have been discussing for three days which banks, which out of 300 banks would be on the list while we have people dying every day. I'm sorry, but this cynical.

And again, we had been in all international treaties. We gave up our weapons. It would be much easier for us if we had nuclear weapon. I don't think Putin would be even threatening us. He might be threatening like he does, I don't know, with the United States, but he definitely wouldn't go after Ukraine. And now we are left alone.

KEILAR: Alexandra Ustinova, thank you so much for being with us this morning and telling us what's on your mind. We really appreciate it.

Nuclear power plants in a war zone. What happens if one of these gets hit? Why the danger in Ukraine right now is really unprecedented. We'll have that next.

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BERMAN: We saw the video of Ukrainian nuclear plant workers and civilians right there blocking a Russian advance toward a nuclear power plant. It's just one of several operational nuclear facilities in Ukraine. That one is right here. And now Ukraine has asked the International Atomic Energy Agency for immediate assistance to keep its nuclear facilities safe.

Joining me now is the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Rafael Grossi. Thank you so much for being with us.

You call the situation here an invasion of a nuclear nation, a nation with nuclear power unprecedented. How so?

RAFAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL OF INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: Well, in once sense, first of all, it's very good to talk to you. Thank you for being in touch. This difficult moments for the world. And, of course, the IAEA is fully engaged in this -- in this situation because of our mandate, our technical role, in ensuring the safety and the security of nuclear facilities all over the world.

In this case, the -- what makes it unprecedented is that this is the first time in post Second World War history that we have a full fledged military operation amidst a pretty good number, a big number of nuclear facilities, including nuclear reactors big sites with 15 nuclear reactors providing no less than 50 percent of the electricity which is produced and consumed in Ukraine.

And other facilities, including, of course, the iconic -- if I may call it that like that, because it has become a world symbol, Chernobyl, which is a place, a site where there is a decommissioning operation which is ongoing.

So, all of these things are happening. And, of course, there is always the danger of military activity that could effect these sites or that there might be some interruption or some disruption in the normal operation of any of these facilities that they result in a problem or in an accident.

And this is why I call it unprecedented. And this is why we are engaged and we are working to try to preserve the safety and the security of these places. We are working, of course, with our Ukrainian counterparts. I am in constant permanent contact with the nuclear regulator of the Ukraine, with the operators, the company, if you want, that owns and operates these nuclear reactors.

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We are exchanging information. We are providing them with some advice and technical support. And as you rightly mentioned, they have requested more assistance. And, of course, I'm working on the modalities of that which, as you can imagine, in the current circumstances is not an easy thing to do. But, we are going to try to provide this assistance for sure.

BERMAN: And I do understand that you said that these facilities, as of now, are safe. There has been no accident or anything at them. But, do you trust the Russians?

GROSSI: It's not about trusting the Russians. It's about keeping things running. For me, trust or these kinds of qualifications are irrelevant. My mandate is to keep them safe and secure.

For now, this is the situation and -- but -- but normal running operations does not mean that there's anything normal about the whole circumstance here, because the audience should know that the plants are operating uninterrupted.

But, of course, given the circumstances, there are difficulties in changing the shifts, sometimes in getting repairs done and so on. So, we have to go case-by-case. We have to make sure that there are no particular singular problems and carry on. This is what we need to do.

BERMAN: Rafael Grossi, we wish you the best of luck, obviously. This is a critical situation.

GROSSI: It is.

BERMAN: And you are in the middle of it. So, thank you very much.

GROSSI: Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you.

BERMAN: So, we have new video this morning, this is coming from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense. They say it's artillery fire hitting a convoy. And we've just learned that a delegation from Ukraine is now on route to talks with Russia. The very latest ahead.

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KEILAR: This morning Russia is stepping up its attacks on major cities in Ukraine. The United Nation's Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine saying that it has reported 752 civilian casualties since the beginning of the Russian invasion.

Joining us now is Independent Senator Angus King of Maine. He is a member of both the Intelligence and the Armed Services Committees. And he caucuses with Democrats in the Senate.

Sir, I want to ask you, I mean, that is a huge number, 752 and we expect that that is a low estimate.

The president has said it's too early to say that there's war crimes. Do you think there's war crimes?

SEN. ANGUS KING (I- ME): Well, you need an investigation, you need all the facts. But, we are now hearing that the Russians are using cluster bombs and what are called vacuum bombs, which suck the air out of a building.

Look, if somebody tells you who they are you should believe them. And 20 years ago Putin told us who he was by the brutal, brutal bombing in Chechnya.

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And I'm afraid that's where we're headed now. That's his playbook. And it's going to impact on civilians. They're not having great success on the battlefield in the sense of moving their armored vehicles into the cities, so I think the next phase we're going to see is more bombing, more targeting of civilians. And I think Mr. Putin has to think about what he's going to have to face when this is over. I think he's already lost this war.

KEILAR: He --

KING: There -- he may have short-term gains, they may take over the cities, but they're not going to be able to hold a country that is so absolutely hostile to them. He's created a Ukrainian identity and patriotism that is -- I just don't see how the Russians will be able to continue to control Ukraine for any length of time after the hostility cease. I hope he's --

KEILAR: He's -- he's --

KING: -- going to find an off-ramp.

KEILAR: He does not seem deterred by any of that, right? And so, if you're looking at these weapons that are being moved in and we believe used in some cases, waiting for Vladimir Putin to step on the brakes doesn't really seem like a possibility. What are the real repercussions? Because, if there aren't any it's -- it is not satisfying to watch.

KING: Well, he's seeing repercussions right now and it's a -- it's a fair question whether sanctions affect dictators. You know, they're going to affect the people of Russia, they already are. The stock market is closed. The ruble is down to less than a cent. Their economy is absolutely collapsing. But, does he care? He's still got his Dasha and his -- you know -- and his Mercedes. And that's a really good question.

On the other hand people are now -- you know -- we're talking about refugees leaving Poland. I'm learning this morning that people are leaving Russia in large numbers and they're trying to stop them at the border. That's a bad sign when you have to lock people into your own country.

The question you ask though is the right one. What motivates Putin? What's going to change his course? And the thing that concerns me is, he's cornered now. He's got to realize that he's made a big mistake. And the question is, how does he get out and try to save some face?

And that's what I'm mildly hopeful about these discussions, because I think he realizes that his long-term prospects aren't very good. But, everybody tries to psychoanalyze him. Is he hinged or unhinged? But, you know, he has this Masonic belief that it's his role in history to reunite the Russian empire.

KEILAR: He certainly is --

ANGUS: And --

KEILAR: He certainly does. He certainly does seem to have that belief. We just heard from a member of the Ukrainian Parliament, who is calling for a few things. None of which the U.S. seems to have an appetite for the west. But, a no -- let's start with the first one. A no-fly zone or an Iron Dome provided for Ukraine. Why are -- why is that not a possibility?

KING: Well, I don't think a no-fly zone is feasible, because that really would be a very substantial escalation in the conflict. And would almost inevitably turn into a war between the U.S. or NATO and Russia. A no-fly zone means you're shooting down the other guy's airplanes. And once that begins, that's a dangerous escalation.

KEILAR: Iron --

KING: On the other hand --

KEILAR: Iron Dome though?

KING: -- and you. Well, I think missile defense is a -- is a -- should be an option, whether you could deploy something like Iron Dome in this -- in this emergency situation. But, don't forget the Stingers. Stingers are round to air missiles. They've been used very effectively and they're already bringing down Russian aircraft.

So, that's -- and Stingers are coming into the country form the U.S. and from NATO countries. And I think that is going to be an important part of at least some air defense for the Ukrainians. And they also, the javelin missiles are -- they're anti-tank, anti-armor facility -- weapons and they're already taking a toll and those are --

KEILAR: Yes.

KING: -- on the way into the country. So, if we can keep them supplied, that's going to be -- that's going to make this into a real ugly slog for the Russians.

KEILAR: I think -- look, I think it's -- it is logical, some of these limitations that the U.S. and the west are facing. This is not a NATO country. But, I wonder if you worry about the message this sends to emerging democracies, or to democracies that are moving in the direction the U.S. wants, but they are not NATO members, they are not full-fledged E.U. members. Do you worry about that?

ANGUS: No, I think we've armed the Ukrainians, we've trained them, we've worked with them substantially. We're making substantial contributions to their defense. On the other hand, you know, we've got to be thinking broad -- more broadly about the world.

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