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CNN: China Asked Russia to Delay Invasion Until After Olympics. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 03, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

SEN. ANGUS KING, (I-ME) INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: -- substantially, we're making substantial contributions to their defense.

On the other hand, we've got to be thinking more broadly about the world. Twice in the last three days the Russians have mentioned their nuclear capability. And by the way, they have a nuclear doctrine that's different from anyone else in the world where they discuss openly the option of using tactical nuclear weapons in a conventional war setting. That -- I don't think there is any such line to go from tactical to strategic weapons, so that's something that has to be taken seriously.

Vladimir Putin today is the most dangerous man in the world, perhaps most dangerous man in the history of the world because he has this blind ambition to reunite the greater Russia at the same time he's sitting on one of the world's great nuclear arsenals. So this is something we have to carefully calculate, not shy away from confrontation, but to be sure that it is carefully calibrated and that we're doing what's necessary.

And as I say, I don't think he's going to be able to hold Ukraine anyway. It will be the classic Pyrrhic victory, unless he wants to send a million Russians into sit on every street corner. That's just not going to work.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It does appear a Pyrrhic victory is possible, and yet one that will cost the Ukrainians dearly. Senator King, thank you so much for being with us.

KING: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: CNN's special coverage continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. It is Thursday, March 3rd.

And our breaking news, Russian forces taking control of the first major Ukrainian city since the invasion started. Kherson is a strategically critical port city of about 300,000 people near the Black Sea. And the mayor there confirming that Russian soldiers have entered city hall to begin installing a new government. He urged his people to follow their orders.

New images showing how the Russians are intensifying the air war. A shell hit an oil depot in Chernihiv about 50 miles north of Kyiv. No word on victims or injuries there. There is some new satellite imagery coming from Maxar Technologies of the region showing that homes are on fire, buildings have been leveled. There are huge craters. And in Kharkiv, at least three schools have been hit, schools, hit by Russian military strikes. No injuries reported there so far, but Kharkiv authorities say 34 civilians have been killed in the city in the last 24 hours alone.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So as Ukrainians face this relentless bombardment, they refuse to give up. These are protesters in Melitopol right now, unarmed civilians staring down military vehicles. You can see they're just trying to push back this Russian advance with nothing but their arms and their will. Now, they were eventually moved aside, and that Russian military convoy did continue.

From the Ukrainian people against the Russians, that comes from the Ukrainian defense ministry. They posted that moments ago, writing, "The enemy does not go unpunished." Allied artillerymen, they write, are inflicting heavy fire damage, destroying columns and clusters of Russian occupation forces. Ukrainian artillery works, as always, they say, clearly, accurately, and efficiently as possible. CNN has not been able to confirm the location or the authenticity of that video.

We're going to begin our coverage this hour with CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto in Lviv. Jim, we can see the air bombardment continue, we can see the acts of defiance by the Ukrainians continue. But now it really does seem to be a war of attrition.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It does. What we're seeing play out before our eyes now is what the Pentagon described yesterday as Russia's new strategy, plan b if you want to call it that, but slow annihilation. Think of the meaning of those words, slow, gradual, annihilation. That is destruction really without distinction between targets.

President Biden believes it is deliberate targeting of civilians. Whether that's proven in this moment, we are seeing civilians suffer, and we're seeing more, as you cited in the introduction there, more civilian targets get hit, schools, apartment buildings, hospitals, and we have seen civilians die as a result of those attacks.

And the Pentagon, U.S. officials were telling me just days ago that they expected to see this, that Russia as its hoped for plan of a quick blitzkrieg operation with a quick capitulation by Ukrainian forces, as that did not come to be, now it's this slow annihilation plan, gradual advancement with more and more attacks on civilian targets here.

[08:05:04]

And, John, if you look at Russia's history, just going back to Syria, but also back to Chechnya, they have a history of deliberately targeting civilians to great and devastating effect. And we're seeing more and more evidence of that every day.

BERMAN: And Jim, these negotiations, I know the Ukrainian delegation on the way for what would be the second meeting. What to make of that?

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, remember the diplomatic attempts, if you want to call them that, we saw prior to the invasion. You had someone like Sergey Lavrov saying days before the invasion that they were interested in talking, had no plans to invade. Of course, they did, they did invade, and that diplomacy turned out to be window dressing and maybe even deliberate misdirection as they made plans for an invasion. So given that recent experience, you need to look at these talks with similar skepticism.

That said, enough interest that you do have Russian officials and Ukrainian officials showing up to see if there is a possibility of progress. But Russia's stated demands are still nonstarters for Ukraine and the west, and that includes demilitarization, that is, lay down their weapons, and also basically a declaration of fealty to Russia, which Ukraine does not want to do.

Now, a lot of that is dark, right, as we wake up this morning and describe it, but on the flipside, you do see tremendous progress of the west, U.S. and NATO, getting weapons into Ukrainian forces. Pentagon saying yesterday hundreds, hundreds of Stinger missiles just in the last couple of days. That's a tremendous acquisition for Ukrainian forces on the ground. Germany pledging nearly 3,000 shoulder fired missiles. And that's one reason Russia does not yet have air supremacy, those are dangerous weapons. So you do still have some leveling of the battlefield, but the advantage remains clearly in Russia's camp, John.

BERMAN: Jim Sciutto in Lviv. Jim, thank you very much.

We have new video this morning showing the damage from a powerful explosion near Kyiv's central train station. Ukrainian officials say thousands of women and children, they were being evacuated from the station at the time of the strike. CNN's Alex Marquardt live on the outskirts of Kyiv with the very latest here. And Alex, this is just another example of how the civilians who are trying to protect themselves often find themselves right in the crosshairs.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course, John, the Russians continue to deny that they are targeting any sort of civilian infrastructure. But this strike happening not just at one of the most central locations we see, but also one of the most vulnerable, as you noted, happening at the central railway station. This is a station where thousands of people over the past few days since this Russian invasion started have headed to that station to try to get on trains to head to the west. The Ukraine railway has put on special evacuation trains to get people out of the city.

So this blast happened near there. A platform was damaged as was a critical gas heating pipeline. Now, we don't know what the target was, but the Ukrainian interior ministry is saying they believe it was a Russian cruise missile that was intercepted by their antiaircraft system, and the fallout from that resulting in the damage on the ground. So it's not clear where this strike might have been intended, but nevertheless, happening in a very, very vulnerable part of the city.

Now, this is as we continue to see more of the damage around the country that Russia continues to wreak. just north of Kyiv in Chernihiv, we have new satellite imagery showing the first five days of the war homes being destroyed, homes on fire, large craters. And that is right up near the border with Belarus where so many of these Russian troops are coming down from.

And then just today we've also heard about an oil deposit in that same town that is on fire, that was hit by what we believe to be a Russian shelling as well. So even as these talks get under way, John, of course, the fighting continues unabated.

BERMAN: Alex Marquardt for us in Kyiv. Alex, thank you very much.

So earlier this morning, I had a chance to speak to the deputy mayor of Mariupol. You see Mariupol down here right on the Sea of Azov. This is a city under siege right now. The Russians closing in from two directions, squeezing the city, 26 hours of shelling. The deputy mayor told me that he thinks they can hold out for several more days, but he says they need help fast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY MAYOR SERGEI ORLOV, MARIUPOL, UKRAINE: Their style of war is to make humanitarian crisis. For example, we do not have electricity in whole city. We do not have water supply. We do not have sanitary system. And we do not have heating. Only natural gas supply is left. And that continues for one day and a half.

[08:10:00]

So we have continuing shelling for 26 hours, 26 hours they are destroying our city. So from all the weapons, from artillery, from airplane, bombing, from tactical rockets from multiple launch rocket system. So the situation is very bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining us now is former CIA deputy chief of Russian operations John Sipher with us. John, we're looking at the map, and I know overnight people may think that not much has changed, but a lot has. And especially as we're watching this right here, this encroachment on Kyiv, that is foreboding. Looking at what is happening near Kyiv, what does that tell us about Putin's state of mind and his next steps? JOHN SIPHER, FORMER CIA DEPUTY CHIEF OF RUSSIAN OPERATIONS: I think

Putin -- he's been a dictator. The people under him have been telling him things, but no one wants to tell him the truth, because if you tell the truth to a dictator, you can get shot in the back of the head. So I think he thought that he had been modernizing and reforming his military and they are now up to standards like the west and the United States. And they can come in and they can hit key points, and they can do this quickly. And now he's finding that it's not the case. Obviously, there is corruption in that government. Everybody at every level has to steal to get money off of everybody. So all -- this modernization probably has been ruined by the corruption in Russia.

So now what they have to do is they have to reset, think, and then maybe do standard the Russian way of war, using heavy artillery and destroying whole towns. We have seen it, obviously, in Syria. People talk about in Chechnya. I was in Russia with the first Chechen war. They bombed and killed everything, cows, old ladies, women. They just destroyed that city. It looked like Stalingrad after World War II.

KEILAR: So, if we look at Kharkiv, I think we're getting a preview of what's to come, right. Let's just take a look at the kind of damage we're talking about. Schools, as far as we know no injuries here. But we also know that dozens of people have died, civilians, in Kharkiv just in the last 24 hours according to that shot, right. You're seeing this kind of destruction. You're seeing apartment buildings. This is a scorched earth strategy that will be coming to Kyiv unless something drastically changes.

SIPHER: Absolutely. And you've had a number of military experts in here, and they can all point to this and say, this is not the way modern militaries do war. They don't blow up apartment buildings and schools and hospitals. But if you just look back a couple of years, that's exactly what the Russians were doing in Syria. And they don't care. Vladimir Putin benefits by the world thinking he's tough, he's scary. And so the problem is now the world is look at him and thinking he's weak. So then he's going to have to double down to show that no, he's serious. And I worry that that means lots of deaths, lots of civilian deaths, and lots of destruction like you see here.

KEILAR: What does very left when he does this to a city? And do you think that Americans and the west, do you think they're prepared for what they're going to see in the coming days, perhaps, in Kyiv?

SIPHER: No. We have been at war for 20 years, right, we've been fighting terrorism, and then wars in Iraq prior to that. But we haven't seen this sort of Russian way of war. And so it is going to be ugly and it is going to be brutal, and we have to look at the ramifications. We're talking about essentially the death of a democratic country, essentially the murder of an innocent country. And we're going to have to think what that means, because freedom and security don't come free. We need to defend those things. And frankly, this came on us because years over years we didn't push back against Vladimir Putin, and so now he continues to take more and more. This is what dictators do, this is what bullies do. And so now we have to rethink and say, how do we protect ourselves going forward, how do we protect democracies around Europe? PAUL: So then what deters him if he is emboldened by weakness, and he

doubles down in the face of strength?

SIPHER: That's a great question. And he's a dictator. He must every night have a nightmare that he is going to be dragged in the gutter like Gadhafi in Libya. And so he worries about staying in power. It's all about survival. And that's why he wanted to kill Ukraine, because Ukraine was a successful democratic western leaning country on his border, which could be a signal to his own people that this type of thing was possible, not to live under repression, it's possible for Slavs and Russian speakers to live in a democratic country. So he had to snuff that out. And it's about his personal survival. And so now, now he has to double down on being a tough guy, and that's scary. It is going to be ugly.

KEILAR: Ukrainians don't seem to be going for it. They seem to be going the exact opposite direction. John Sipher, thank you so much.

SIPHER: Thank you.

KEILAR: A new report overnight that China asked Russia to delay its invasion of Ukraine until after the Olympics. We have new details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:24]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New reporting in to CNN, a Western intelligence report indicated that Chinese officials requested to senior Russian officials to delay any invasion into Ukraine until after the conclusion of the Beijing Winter Olympics. The games concluded on February 20th, the following day, Putin ordered more troops to Eastern Ukraine.

Putin, of course, travelled to Beijing and met with Chinese President Xi on February 4th. Later that day, he attended the Olympic opening ceremonies despite a diplomatic boycott from the United States and other nations.

Joining me now is the former chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers.

Mike, great to see you.

What does this tell you that, that intelligence now saying that China said, wait, but that also indicates that China knew?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Yeah. There is -- no one should be surprised that China knew, there wasn't discussions between China and Russia on this. There is a real pattern here that is a bit alarming.

So, you think about the arctic negotiations a few years ago where China owns about 30 percent now of all the proposed new development of oil and natural gas coming out of the Arctic, with the Russians. And by the way, that deal, the Chinese cut also says all the equipment that shows up there, 80 percent of it has to be Chinese.

We watched new banking relationships between Russia and China leading up to all of this, including new deals on natural resources from Russia to China. So China clearly knew they were trying to take advantage of a lot of the negotiations. I think they knew what was coming.

And, listen, the -- Russia needs to understand where the world is, but so does China.

[08:20:04]

I think China is keeping a close eye on all of this, and as more of this comes out, they're going to have to rethink their policy even on Taiwan. And I think that's what you're seeing them hedge their bets here a little bit.

If Russia gets this much pushback from Ukraine, what would happen if they in fact went into Taiwan, which they continue to say that they'll do here within the next few months or years.

KEILAR: So what do you see that doing then? Do you see that -- probably the goal doesn't change, but does the timeline for doing that just get longer for China?

ROGERS: For China, I think they're going to make a calculation. They are great students of history. You have to give them that. So, they're looking at every bit of this.

But, remember, they also did negotiated with Russia on things leading up to Ukraine that clearly benefited China. You got natural resources, certainly wheat stocks and other things, agricultural products that Russia produces that are going to go now to China because they have nowhere else to go. That all benefits China.

When the rest of the world is under pressure for natural resources, China isn't. They're going to be buying everything that Russia has left. And so that's factors into their equations.

They're just going to look at the international reaction to what's happened here. I think everyone was a little surprised and this new social media, by the way, we lamented often, but in a case like this, this is where you get to see real people, grandmas picking up AK-47s saying I'm not leaving and that has a tremendous impact on the morale of Ukrainians.

Well, guess what? Taiwan is going to have that same feeling. Now, there is some speculation as to why Russia didn't shut down all the telecommunications, Internet operations, I think there is room for debate on both sides of that. Many believe it is because they're getting ready to launch an information operation to help quell that.

But China's watching all of it. They're a student of it and taking advantage of it all at the same time. Beijing could do a lot to hurt Russia economically. They just haven't done it.

BERMAN: Mike Rogers, the chairman, always great to have you on. Thank you so much.

ROGERS: Thanks.

BERMAN: So, a sports star going back to Ukraine to join the fight against the Russians. The heart breaking decision to leave his wife and his young children.

Plus, a message to Putin from some very tough Ukrainians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (translated): Leave us alone, you bastard!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:30]

KEILAR: One million Ukrainians have now fled their homeland since the start of the Russian invasion. And at the same time, some Ukrainian men and women have bravely returned to their home country to fight back.

Among them, a pro-tennis player known for beating Roger Federer at Wimbledon in 2013.

I talked to Sergiy Stakhovsky just moments ago about his gut-wrenching decision to leave his family behind and return home to fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGIY STAKHOVSKY, FORMER UKRAINIAN PRO TENNIS PLAYER: Well, there was, of course, a hesitation. It is impossible to make that call without hesitation. I have three kids and a wife and we were on vacation in Dubai when this happened.

And, you know, I've been in a tennis tournament, I've seen the guys there, and nothing would say that Russia would wage war and invade Ukraine. It was not an easy decision. And for me in these circumstances, it was not a decision which would be right for me. If I would stay home, I would feel guilt that I didn't come back and now I'm here and I feel guilt that I left home.

KEILAR: Your kids think you're at a tennis event, is that right?

STAKHOVSKY: I would say something like that. My wife didn't tell them, I didn't tell them when I was leaving where I'm going. So I'm guessing that pretty smart because the older one, elder daughter Taisia, she's 7, and middle son is 6, I guess they'll figure out soon.

KEILAR: So, look, you know the reality of what you're facing. You know the risks that you're taking. How did you have that -- how did you have that discussion with your wife?

STAKHOVSKY: Of course, she was mad and she didn't accept that decision. And now we're back to normality, she understood the reasons for me. But for her, it was a betrayal and I understand why she feels that way.

But I didn't want to -- I was born in Ukraine. Ukraine never as a country gave me any support -- whether it was developing my sport or any other manner. It doesn't matter if I was given anything by my country. I was born here. My grandparents are buried here, and I would like a history to tell my kids.

If I stay home and Ukraine would fail, there would be no Ukraine, not even in the history books because according to Putin, Ukraine was established by Lenin in the beginning of the Soviet Union, that it never existed before that.

And those lies will be then transformed into history books and modern history of Ukraine would be nonexistent.

KEILAR: So, like many people who have taken up arms to fight the Russians, you do not have military experience. How are you preparing?

STAKHOVSKY: Well, we have got a basic class of how to shoot. I do believe that people like me will be the last to -- last resort, but problem is that the people of my style are the dominant one. I mean, there is 100,000.

The biggest issues that nobody here is wanting (ph) a Russia world. Nobody wants Russia to free them from what they have. They have freedom and democracy. And Russia wants to bring despair and poverty.

KEILAR: Are you prepared to sacrifice your life, Sergiy?

STAKHOVSKY: Listen, this is a question which I don't have answer to. I'm not sure there is one individual who is ready to tell you now whether he's ready to sacrifice life. It's -- and I want to see my kids, that's for sure. I want to see my wife. That's my goal.

But in a given moment, nobody knows what's going to happen.