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Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA) is Interviewed about Russia; Exodus out of Kyiv; Civilians Struggle to Escape Ukraine; Man Loses Five Members in Russian Strike. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired March 07, 2022 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Who said, that's all well and good, and I'm paraphrasing, but what's the point of fighter jets if we don't have airports to land them at. She says there needs to be a no-fly zone. You say what?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): I say that that is going to be very, very difficult to do for the United States and for NATO because that would put us in direct combat with Russia. If you're going to have a no-fly zone, you have to enforce it. You have to enforce it with aircraft. Aircraft are going to shoot at other aircraft. And that would be a major escalation.

One of the things that is available now are the thousands of stinger missiles that have been delivered to Ukraine and are in the Ukrainian army's hands. Those are very, very effective, particularly for low flying aircraft. The higher flying aircraft, it doesn't work for that. There may be other mechanisms that can be used.

But you're quite right about the airports, obviously. It appears that Russia is attacking the airports. One of the concerns I've had about these transfers, and I think they ought to take place, is, where will the planes be located? And all of the maintenance, all of the fueling and armaments, all of that will have to be part of a package. And it may be that there are very few airports available.

KEILAR: Right now, as you see this effort to get civilians out, what is your concern Russia's doing here?

GARAMENDI: Yes. Russia is doing exactly what they've always done in conflicts, and that is to use civilians as part of the weapon. That is to terrorize, to destroy the will to fight and they're doing that. Why are they destroying all of these communities and cities? Certainly not for a military purpose. There is no military purpose other than to break the back, the will of the Ukrainian people.

And I suspect the opposite is going to happen. The civilians, the women, children, are fleeing. The men are staying behind. They will have equipment. They will have the armaments that they need to fight back. And it may very well be that before too long Ukraine will descend into a long period of insurgency. The Russians are going to have to throw hundreds of thousands of troops into that country to subjugate it.

KEILAR: The other thing we just heard from the member of parliament that we spoke with, that the argument for the -- against the no-fly zone is, look, you're going to end up with World War III, that Russia is a nuclear power. Her point was, it's already began. And I wonder, looking back on say World War II with Poland, you saw France and Britain really doing the bare minimum. And, ultimately, we see Poland becomes the invasion of Poland by the Nazis, and then the Soviets. It becomes this gateway to World War II.

GARAMENDI: Yes.

KEILAR: How are we not -- how is this not the same?

GARAMENDI: Could be. And almost certainly if we were to be engaging in a fighting war with Russia, we would be. Would that stop it?

And here comes the nuclear weapon issue. How do we deal with the nuclear weapons? The nuclear weapons are used to deter one or the other side from doing something. And certainly that is precisely what Putin has done. He has threatened the use of nuclear weapons to stop NATO, the western countries, from formally using our militaries to assist the Ukrainians. And the same thing on the other side. So that's the deterrence of the nuclear weapons.

We really do not want to go to nuclear weapons. There is high, high probability that should a nuclear weapon be deployed, it doesn't stop with one weapon. It probably leads to another weapon, another weapon, and then we have a nuclear war. That is where we cannot and do not want to go.

Is there an off-ramp? It appears as though that off-ramp is going to be quite a ways away. Putin is determined. He's now talking about subjugating, that means folding Ukraine into the Russian -- not just the sphere of influence, but actually into and part of Russia.

Where are we going to go with this? I've always thought that if these photos, these videos that are so prominent on western television, if they were in the hands of the Russian people, the Russian people could see these, what they're actually doing to their brothers and sisters in Ukraine, the Russian people would be on the streets. Seven thousand or so already arrested.

KEILAR: Yes. Look, I think Vladimir Putin agrees with you. That's why we saw this law passed to make sure that the Russians don't get to see this stuff.

GARAMENDI: Exactly.

KEILAR: Congressman Garamendi, thanks for coming in this morning. Appreciate it.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Next, we're going to speak to the mayor of Irpin, just outside Kyiv, who says the Russians are deliberately targeting evacuation routes.

[06:35:02]

He calls the Russians animals who are bombing ambulances.

This is CNN's special live coverage. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, let's get right to CNN's Clarissa Ward, who's in Kyiv at the central train station.

Clarissa, what are you seeing?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.

Well, they have just -- this is a train that is going to be taking people to the relative safety of the western city of Lviv. And it has just been a chaotic scene here for the last few minutes. People have been waiting some hours for this train.

There's been a lot of arguing about who is able to get on it. You can see people are just packed in there. People were originally calling for it to be just women and children. A man tried to get on the train. People started screaming at that man. You can see over here a number of people still just trying to pack onto this train.

[06:40:05]

They've got their pets. They've got their family members.

These are scenes that we've seen playing out across the country, John. But we were at the train station about a week ago, and it was nothing like this scene. There is definitely an intensification, an urgency as people are trying to get out of the country, out of the city, as we're seeing this push on the northwest and western parts of Kyiv. These trains are now packed full of people who are desperately trying to get out of the city as the sense and the fear grows that Russia is sort of tightening its noose, moving down across the south and towards the southern western part of the city, which would means that this city is totally encircled. And the fear is that they will lay siege to it.

These people, some of them, have been waiting here for hours. They've been pushing, shoving, desperately trying to get out. And it's just awful to see the fear in people's eyes. They're just frantically trying to get their loved ones out. We've seen a lot of families saying good-bye to each other. And they're hoping that they will be able to get to the safety of Lviv. But from there, as I've said so many times before, John, they just don't know where they're going to go. They don't know where they're going to sleep. They don't know when they're going to be able to come back.

You can see that man saying good-bye to his family.

(Speaking in foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).

WARD: Ah, volunteer. These guys are volunteers, they're explaining, trying to help people load onto the train in an orderly fashion to stop the kind of chaotic scenes that we just saw here a few moments ago.

We spoke to a family from Bucha, where some of the heaviest shelling has been, and they're just completely shellshocked. They're devastated. They were evacuated early this morning. Their homes have been destroyed. Their lives have been destroyed. And they're waiting now to see when they can get on a train.

BERMAN: Clarissa, we just saw --

WARD: And we're just going to try to walk down here now.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

WARD: Sorry, John.

No, we're just trying to walk down here. You can see every single train carriage is absolutely rammed full. And a lot of men waiting on the platform. You can see this man.

(Speaking in foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).

WARD: This is his daughter.

(Speaking in foreign language.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).

WARD: (Speaking in foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you see here --

WARD: What you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you can see here, that is very, very possible you'll see that in couple months in Europe (ph). Believe me.

WARD: A couple months in Europe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only way to stop murder is another murder.

WARD: Yes.

So you can hear it from him, John, this man warning people that what happens in Ukraine will not stop in Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, never! Never!

WARD: That this war will spill over into Europe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hitler -- Hitler wasn't stopped at west Germany, wasn't stopped in Austria, wasn't stopped in Czechoslovakia, wasn't stopped in Poland. He only -- the only way -- the only point when we stop it is bunker. Bunker and self (ph) kill.

WARD: Do you think that -- do you think President Putin is like Hitler?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is much worse.

WARD: Worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because -- because Hitler, even -- even he was an idiot. Even he was an idiot.

WARD: An idiot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did it for -- he did it in -- in his mind he did it for German people. Putin do it only for self. For -- for --

WARD: For himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For full power. For self power.

WARD: (INAUDIBLE).

Is your family on this train?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes. My wife and my mother, 87.

WARD: And you stay here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course.

WARD: Why are you staying here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I can't leave my country.

WARD: What's your name, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yuri (ph).

WARD: Yuri, it's nice to meet you.

And I think Yuri, John, speaks for so many people here. They are putting their wives, their daughters, their families on these trains. But they're going to stay here and they're going to fight. And they view this as a fight for a way of life.

[06:45:03]

This isn't just about Ukraine for the people here. They view this as an existential fight for liberal democracy, sovereignty, self- determination. And that's why so many people here are willing to stay and risk their lives despite the odds, which are, unfortunately, stacked them, John.

BERMAN: You could hear the rage in his voice. Putin, worse than Hitler, he says. And this as he puts his wife and his 87-year-old mother on the train. And to see others putting their children on, just this packed, packed train.

Clarissa, I don't know if we still have you. Your shot is frozen. But, Clarissa, if we do have you, I just want you to reiterate one point you were making, which is that you did not see this last week at this train station. You did not see this exodus from Kyiv. This is new because there's new fear of an intensified assault on the Ukrainian capital?

WARD: That's right. We were seeing people leaving definitely. There was an anticipation that a war could come to Kyiv. But what we saw earlier here at this station, and the crowds that we're seeing are nothing like what we saw last week.

And the mood is nothing like what we saw last week. Last week, people were fleeing. (INAUDIBLE) they were frightened. It was chaotic.

This is different. People are running for their lives. And when they're saying good-bye to their loved ones, there's a very real sense for a lot of these families that they might never see them again. And that is what feels different.

And, of course, it's happening at the same time as you're seeing this real intensification of the fight, particularly right next to the city, northwest of Irpin, where we were on that bridge just the other day, John.

BERMAN: Again, and these men that you are speaking to being left behind who say they can't go. They can't leave their country. And their plan is to fight as much as they can?

WARD: That's what they say. That's what they tell us. And, actually, it's interesting, you can see the men on the platform, quite a few of them, who have said good-bye to their families. And for some of the men who were getting on the train, they were hurling abuse at them and saying, why are you getting on the train, you're not a woman? So not only is it just a brave few, I think there is a sense right now that the right thing to do for many men here in Kyiv is to stay here, is to volunteer, is to fight if need be, John.

BERMAN: And we just saw the doors shut on the trains behind you. People packed in. There was one girl, Clarissa, while you were speaking, a little girl, standing inside the open part of the train who just put her hand up and waved to you. And no doubt she probably had to say good-bye to a father or a brother who are staying behind there. These are families being torn apart right now. And the blame, at least on that platform, very much on Vladimir Putin.

WARD: Absolutely, John. I mean we've seen a lot of tears here, a lot of good-byes, a lot of anger, a lot of emotion. And also just a sense of shock and disbelief. This woman I interviewed in Bucha (ph), who's from Bucha (ph), which

has been just pummeled by the Russians, she said, we want to move to Russia. We speak the same language. They were our brothers. How is it possible that Russia could attack us in this way. I think there is a really strong sense for many people now of just shock of the senselessness, of the insanity of Russians killing Ukrainians. And for what? (INAUDIBLE) when we were on the bridge the other day, John, with those people, and that woman, she just kept saying, (Speaking in foreign language), for what? (INAUDIBLE) here can't understand how this is happening, why this is happening. And, unfortunately, no one also can see how it ends.

BERMAN: Russians killing Ukrainians, as Clarissa said, and for what, at that train, packed train getting ready to leave Kyiv for the west, for safety, leaving husbands and brothers behind.

Our thank you to Clarissa Ward for being there.

[06:50:00]

KEILAR: So, let's head now to CNN's Ivan Watson. He is where some of those trains will be heading. He is live in one of the neighbor countries where Ukrainians are going, and that is Moldova.

Give us a -- just the scene -- tell us the scene, Ivan.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're probably about 30 yards from Ukrainian territory on the Moldovan side of the border. And people have been crossing all morning here, waiting in the snow flurries and the freezing cold with their children, with the elderly, with their pets for vans that will take them to a newly constructed camp inside, free. The Moldova have opened their doors to the Ukrainians who are streaming across the border. More than 230,000 people in the last week and a half. Most of these people, and I've been talking to -- to some of them, have come from the Ukrainian port city of Odessa, which has not been engaged yet in ground combat. People here say they've heard explosions and blasts and that preparations are being made to defend the city. But most of these people have not seen the combat up close yet.

I spoke with one family where a grandmother was holding a four-month- old baby, and she was from another town called Mykolaiv. And they said that their home was destroyed by shell fire. The family was thankfully OK. But they were having to come across this border, leave their husband behind, the father of two children, to defend their town and then come into Moldova, hopefully to go to Germany in the future. That grandmother who I spoke with, she blamed this squarely on Russia. She said, they came, quote/unquote, to liberate us. Look at this liberation that Russia has organized.

The United Nations says 1.5 million people have streamed across Ukraine's borders in 12 days. And every government official I have talked to predicts that this number will increase as the days go on.

And people may be safe for the moment. But I can tell you, when people are forced to leave their homes and their countries indefinitely, everything gets ripped apart. The schools that your kids are supposed to go to, trying to find a new place to work at, new shelter, what country you're going to move to. These are questions that I think tragically everybody will have to be dealing with going forward.

One final thought. Moldova itself is a tiny country, 2.5 million people population. One of the poorest countries in Europe. One out of eight kids in Moldova right now is a Ukrainian refugee. And this country will need help to deal with this stream of humanity.

John.

KEILAR: Yes, as you put it, Ivan, this is the liberation. What are they being liberated of? Their fathers, their husbands, their safety, their security. It is something to behold behind you.

Ivan Watson, thank you for that report.

Up next, you're going to meet a teenager forced to fee her home in Ukraine, leaving some of her family behind.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:50:36]

BERMAN: All right, this morning, civilians in Ukraine paying a heavy price for Putin's invasion there. You're about to meet one man who lost five of his family members to a Russian air strike, including his wife and 12-year-old daughter.

CNN's Alex Marquardt has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This small country road is now lined by piles of rubble, burned out cars, collapsed homes and a deep crater where a Russian missile struck. The attack caught on a village security camera hit the home of Igor Majiv (ph) in a small village of Markhalivka about 15 miles south of Kyiv where he lived with his family.

Now, they're gone, killed in an instant. Five family members and a friend, including his 12-year-old daughter, who was disabled in an accident with a drunk driver. His wife, just 46 years old. And his son-in-law, the father of his grandchildren.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There was a massive explosion and we all got trapped under rubble. My daughter has died in her wheelchair. Me and my grandchildren were rescued from under the rubble.

MARQUARDT: Today, Majiv (ph), black eye and face bruised, picked through the debris, trying to find belongings and documents. There was a brief moment of happiness when he found one of his missing cats.

But the reality of how his life is forever changed has not yet sunk in. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I have no thoughts now. What

thoughts can I possibly have? It's terrible. Terrible. I just want peace for Ukraine, just leave Ukraine alone already. God help this to end as soon as possible. I will bury my relatives tomorrow. That's it, I don't know what will happen then.

MARQUARDT (on camera): There is simply no explanation for all of this destruction, for the deaths that happened right here. There is no military target around for miles. This isn't a strategic village or town that needs taking. So, as the Kremlin continues to deny that they are targeting civilians, it is indiscriminate attacks like this one that show the reality of what is going on here.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Olga (ph) lives down the street. She points to a mat that was used to carry the children out of the rubble.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The main thing is for this hell to end as soon as possible. How is it possible that a brother goes against a brother. This is unthinkable. Everybody used to go to Russia and back, relatives everywhere, and now.

MARQUARDT: It's too much for Olga and for millions across Ukraine who are in utter disbelief about what is happening to their home. Praying and pleading for the violence to end.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Markhalivka, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, March 7th. I'm John Berman, with Brianna Keilar.

Our breaking new coverage this morning, we are seeing new evidence that Russians are targeting civilians. The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, calls it murder.

Moments ago, Zelenskyy called for new sanctions against Russia, including a boycott of oil. He's calling for it because of attacks like this.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Eight civilians -- eight civilians, including two children, killed by Russian force as they tried to flee a suburb of Kyiv. They were on a well-known escape route that civilians had been using.

Our Clarissa Ward was there just yesterday.

This raises obvious questions about whether the Russians are intentionally targeting this escape route.

The Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is warning that Ukraine's third largest city, Odessa, on the Black Sea coast, could be targeted next. He expects imminent bombings there.

[07:00:00]

Also under assault, Mariupol, over here on the Sea of Azov, all but surrounded at this point by Russian forces.