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Shell to Stop Buying Russian Oil; Russian Families Call Ukrainian Hotline; Russian Gymnast Faces Discipline; Refugees Flee Ukraine. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired March 08, 2022 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And leave the Russian energy industry altogether. A pretty big announcement as gas prices here in the United States reach record highs.

Joining me now to discuss, Gregory Zuckerman. He's the author of "Frackers: The Outrageous Inside Story of the New Billionaire Wildcatters," and a writer for "The Wall Street Journal." And here with us, CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

I say record high. That's not inflation adjusted.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BERMAN: But the fact of the matter is, gas prices are very high.

ROMANS: Oh, yes.

BERMAN: And a really sharp increase.

ROMANS: Yes. And they moved really quickly here, like 55 cents in just a week here. $4.17, I think, is now the nationwide average.

If you live -- and a lot of other places in the country you're seeing much higher than that. You have to be adjusted for inflation, like $5.25 to match what we saw back in 2008. But, you know, that's sort of quibbling a little bit.

How quickly this happened here is getting American's attention.

I mean you look at it this way, Americans today are spending just about $150 million more a day for gasoline to fill up their cars than they did just a month ago. So that's a big change that people are feeling.

BERMAN: And, Greg, we're talking about ways to perhaps replace the Russian output (ph), what we import -- 10 percent of our petroleum is from Russia.

GREGORY ZUCKERMAN, AUTHOR, "THE FRACKERS: THE OUTRAGEOUS INSIDE STORY OF THE NEW BILLIONAIRE WILDCATTERS": Close to 10 percent. We could do some things like get it from Venezuela, if we can ease some of those sanctions. People are talking about a deal with Iran. I'm much more in favor of encouraging the U.S. frackers to produce more. I think there might be a deal that we can cut with them, improve their environmental production, crack down on some methane emissions in exchange for a floor on prices, because a lot of them are nervous about spending a lot on production. What happens in a year or two when prices come back down? So, I'd rather get much more production from the U.S.

ROMANS: Sometimes, you know, they say that high prices cure high prices, but, you know, that's not necessarily the case for frackers. How come? How come not just seeing, you know, $130 oil, what we hit this weekend, that just doesn't (ph) incentivize them just to go out there and start fracking?

ZUCKERMAN: It's a fascinating thing. So for years they just spent, spent, spent and produced and we went into a country that was exporting -- we were literally exporting crude to the Saudis and to the rest of the world and it changed everything. We've got production of gas in this country and it's helping all kinds of industries and we're much more competitive as a result. But, over the past few years, investors on Wall Street have said, stop with all that spending. They never really profited that much.

So, they've said, no more production, or at least don't go crazy on production. And we're still the world's biggest producer of energy. So, we have to make that clear. But we could be doing a lot more.

BERMAN: The issue isn't so much for the United States. To an extent, the U.S. is somewhat insulated, but it's a global market. I mean Europe is so dependent on --

ZUCKERMAN: Yes, I'm really worried about Europe in terms of a recession, in terms of having to ration energy over the next few years. They depend on Russia --

ROMANS: They could have their third recession in just two years, potentially.

ZUCKERMAN: Yes. Yes. And they depend on Russia much more than we do. We're getting close to 10 percent of our crude and it can be replaced. But Europe I'm much more concerned about, yes.

ROMANS: And there's -- there are far more reasons for the U.S. not to freak out about high oil prices right now. We have these huge cushion, savings cushion right now in the U.S. We have an economy that was growing at, what, 7 percent at the end of last year. It's a really strong jobs market. So the U.S. economy is really strong here. I mean an oil shock price is probably closer to $200 than $130 what we're facing right now, but Europe is where the real weakness is.

BERMAN: We heard the news from Shell, Greg, saying they're going to stop purchasing the Russian oil. What does that mean? And also just talk more about Europe, what a dire situation it might be for them. One of the things you mentioned -- they may start -- have to start having -- stop having car races.

ZUCKERMAN: Yes, things like that. ROMANS: Turn off the AC.

ZUCKERMAN: AC. Turning -- you know, heating. It's going to be all kinds of difficult decisions on the part of Europe over the next few years.

Listen, they never really made much in terms of policy changes. They didn't frack. And one can argue, well, that's getting addicted to fossil fuels. I would argue, yes, but it is a transition. It's allowed us, in the United States, to start transitioning where we need to go to solar and to wind. And they never made that decision. Nuclear, they're kind of phasing out. So, they've depended on Russia and they've kind of kicked the can. Now it's costing Europe.

ROMANS: What about U.S. supplies? I mean, you know, LNG, is there a way for the U.S. to get its, you know, exports to -- directly to Europe and bypass Russia reliance?

ZUCKERMAN: Yes, but over time. It's going to take years, frankly. But we could do things like cut red tape in terms of exporting LNG over the next few years. But short term, Europe's going to be feeling pain.

BERMAN: How high are prices going to go here at the pump?

ZUCKERMAN: Well, Christine made a really good point that, in the industry, in the energy industry, they talk about how prices -- high prices cure high prices.

ROMANS: Right.

ZUCKERMAN: Meaning that there will be a consumption impact. There will be a new production. So, you don't want to get to apoplectic and too concerned. But for the next short term, you have to be -- you have to be worried.

BERMAN: $5?

ROMANS: Maybe. I mean, maybe. I mean, look, they were already rising. I mean inflation is the story of '22. Energy prices are the story of '22. This was starting even before Vladimir Putin was doing this. So this was already -- the base case was higher gas prices, higher energy prices, in part because of a recovering American economy, recovering global economies. We just will have to wait and see.

But it will be tough for consumers, especially low income consumers.

[06:35:02]

Anybody who relies on gasoline for your business. That's going to be issue number one for a lot of people in this country, but it really is a big problem for Europe. I mean much bigger problem for Europe.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, Greg Zuckerman, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

Just released, a new message from Ukrainian President Zelenskyy saying the occupiers have bombed Sumy again, and they're turning it into hell. He's talking about air strikes on a northern city. The death toll from these overnight hits have now gone up to 21 civilians. That's according to Ukrainian officials. We have the breaking details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, breaking news, the number of refugees fleeing Ukraine has now reached 2 million. That's according to the U.N. refugee agency.

[06:40:01]

Our map still says 1.7 million. That was made overnight. We now have learned the number is 2 million.

And a top diplomat warns the European Union could see as many as 5 million Ukrainian refugees.

Joining me now is Diana. She is 17 year old and fled her hometown of Zaporizhzhia with her mother and she is now in Belgium.

Diana, thank you so much for being with us.

As I said, you are now safely in Belgium. How difficult was the journey?

Dana, can you hear me?

All right, I don't know that we have transmission with her.

You guys want to try again?

All right. we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:02]

BERMAN: So, with a media blackout in Russia and limited to no information about the conflict getting in, many Russians are turning to a Ukrainian-run hotline to help find their missing family members who are fighting in Ukraine.

CNN has exclusive access to the recordings of calls from mothers, fathers, wives, siblings, desperate for answers.

Alex Marquardt has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Hello, is this where one can find out if someone is alive?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Hello, do you have any information about my husband? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Sorry to bother you, I'm calling regarding my brother.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): These are the voices of Russians, parents, wives, siblings, desperately searching for answers. Calling to find information, anything, on Russian soldiers they've lost contact with who were fighting in Ukraine, who may be wounded, captured or even killed.

OPERATOR (through translator): When was the last time he contacted you?

WIFE 1 (through translator): On the 23rd of February, when he crossed the border into Ukraine.

OPERATOR: Did he tell you where he was going?

WIFE 1: He said toward Kyiv.

MARQUARDT: This Russian wife, like many others, has turned to an unlikely source for help, the Ukrainians. In a Ukrainian government building, Kristina, which is her alias, is in charge of a hot line called Come Back from Ukraine Alive, which Ukraine's interior ministry says has gotten over 6,000 calls. Kristina asked that we don't show her face.

MARQUARDT (on camera): Your country is being invaded, but you also feel the need to help these Russian families. Why?

KRISTINA, HOTLINE OPERATOR (through translator): We will help find their relatives who were deceived and who without knowing where and why they are going - find themselves in our country. And, secondly, we will help to stop the war in general. In Russia they don't know what's actually going on in Ukraine. So the second goal of this hotline is to deliver the truth.

MARQUARDT (voice over): The Russian relatives who have called this hotline say they haven't heard from their soldiers since the invasion. The hotline, which Russian families have found on social media or through word of mouth, gave CNN exclusive recordings of a number of the calls.

WIFE 2 (through translator): This is not our fault. Please, understand that they were forced.

OPERATOR (through translator): Yes, I understand.

WIFE 2: I also want this to end. I want everyone to live in peace.

OPERATOR: Yes.

MARQUARDT (on camera): What are some of the calls that stick out to you that you remember the most?

KRISTINA (through translator: A father called.

MARQUARDT: It's OK.

KRISTINA: He said, our children are being used as cannon fodder. Politicians and VIPs are playing their games, solving their issues while our children have to die.

MARQUARDT: These are the notes from one of the calls. And, in fact, this call came from the United States. The relative of a young Russian soldier trying to find him. She told the Ukrainians that his parents are no longer alive, that the grandmother in Russia is quite sick. We have his birthday. He's just 23 years old. And he was last known to be in Crimea right before the invasion.

Now, the Ukrainians don't have any information on him, but if they do find him or get some information, they can then call his aunt back in the United States.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Data from the hotline shows thousands of calls, not just from all across Russia, but also from Europe and the United States.

MARQUARDT (on camera): Hello, is this Marat?

MARAT, FAMILY MEMBER OF RUSSIAN SOLDIER (via telephone): Yes, it is.

MARQUARDT (voice over): We got through to three relatives in the United States of Russian soldiers believed to be in Ukraine, who called the hotline, including a relative in Virginia of one who also found the soldier's ID and photos on a channel of the social media app Telegram, also dedicated to finding the whereabouts of Russian soldiers.

MARAT: We do realize that all the signs are pointing to that it's most likely he was killed in action, but still trying to locate information, where is the body that can be potentially found. Or maybe, hopefully, he's alive.

MARQUARDT (on camera): Is the Russian ministry of defense telling anything to the family?

MARAT: The family is trying to, not get contacted by anybody just because everybody's so scared in Russia. Everyone is scared to talk, everyone's afraid of the law enforcement agencies tracking them.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Marina told us her cousin's parents have had no contact with him, no information on whereabouts or on his condition.

[06:50:05]

MARQUARDT (on camera): Are they being told anything?

MARINA, FAMILY MEMBER OF RUSSIAN SOLDIER (via telephone): No, no they called (INAUDIBLE). They tried to find him but like no one is answer.

MARQUARDT: Is that why you called this Ukrainian hot line?

MARINA: Yes, that's why I tried to call. Yes.

MARQUARDT: Did you get any information?

MARINA: Nope. Nothing. I was, you know, hoping that he is like maybe like in prison or something like that, you know, that he's still alive.

MARQUARDT (voice over): The vast majority of the calls do not result in immediate information for the families.

Back in Kyiv, Kristina makes clear that the call center isn't just designed to offer answers but to galvanize Russians against the war.

KRISTINA (through translator): The more people we can share the truth about what's happening in Ukraine with the more people will go out protesting and demanding to stop this bloodshed.

MARQUARDT: Sympathy for families but also one more way to try to undermine the Russian war effort as Ukraine fights for its very existence.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Kyiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: It really is worth noting how little information is getting from inside Ukraine to people inside Russia. And I think you have to ask, why doesn't Vladimir Putin want people to know what's going on there? It has to be because he doesn't thinks it will help his efforts. That the truth, he thinks, will hurt him.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I think there have -- I think there's a number of questions that this raises. One is, do they have the capability to let family members know? Are they just not expecting there to be this kind of casualty for this to take so long. Does -- do they care? I mean they should care.

If you just look at the way the U.S. military operates in a situation like this, Berman. They are trying to keep families, at least somewhat informed so that they don't worry. But losing complete contact with a loved one who is serving, the idea -- and I suspect this may be the case as we listen, that there are actually some dead Russian soldiers and their families just haven't been alerted. I mean that is the kind of thing where you end up losing a lot of support on the home front. And it really is, I think, a good thing for the Russian military to keep those family members in touch or they're actually going to be facing a problem on the whole other front.

BERMAN: Look, it's just flat out barbaric not to tell the families what's happening there.

KEILAR: It is. Yes.

BERMAN: So, the death toll among civilians is rising this morning in Ukraine after a Russian attack in the city of Sumy. An evacuation is underway right now and we're going to take you to the ground. Plus, a touching moment last night. Yo-Yo Ma beginning his performance

at Washington's Kennedy Center by playing Ukraine's national anthem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:57:05]

KEILAR: A Russian gymnast is facing discipline after wearing a symbol in support of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Andy Scholes has more in today's "Bleacher Report."

You know, this was sort of a stunning thing that this gymnast did because he was standing right next to a Ukrainian athlete as he was doing it.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly, Brianna. And the International Gymnastics Federation, it's called for disciplinary proceedings to be opened against the Russian gymnast, Ivan Kuliak, over what it calls his shocking behavior at an event in Qatar over the weekend. So, the 20-year-old, he wore the letter "z" taped to the front of his outfit as he stood on the podium to collect his bronze medal. And, as you mentioned, right alongside a Ukrainian competitor who had won gold. The "z" was in the place of the Russian flag, which had been banned by gymnastics governing body.

Now, the letter "z," it's been used as an identifying symbol on Russian tanks and vehicles in Ukraine and has since become a symbol of support for the invasion. Now, the organization that oversees Russian gymnastics acknowledged that Kuliak's display violated the rules but said they would support him in any case.

CNN has reached out to Russian gymnastics team but has not yet received a response.

Now, athletes from Russia and Belarus, Brianna, they're already banned from future competitions. The IOC recommended that ban last week, but the ban didn't go into effect until Monday, which is why Kuliak was able to compete in Qatar. But he could face further sanctions like being stripped of that bronze medal or a lengthy ban from the sport for wearing that letter "z."

KEILAR: I just think -- I think that must be terrible to be an athlete in Russia when you look at how they've been used in the Olympics, when it comes to doping, in this situation. It's really just a shame.

Andy, thank you so much for that.

SCHOLES: All right.

KEILAR: All right, we want to go straight to CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward, who's at a refugee staging area near Irpin, which is northwest of Kyiv.

Clarissa, what are you seeing? CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, John, you

may remember over the weekend we were on that bridge just about 200 or 300 yards in that direction where people have been flooding in from this bombarded area of Irpin, it's a northwestern Kyiv suburb.

We're now here at this kind of staging ground. You can see there, soldiers waiting around for people who are arriving. There has been still a steady stream of them coming in all day long.

In fact, you can see just over here a group of people who have just arrived. A lot of these people are happy and relieved to be alive. They're reuniting with relatives. There are also, many of them, confused, clearly in a state of shock some of them, distressed. They have been living now for more than a week under just complete hell, John. Constant bombardment. They described horrifying scenes, not being able to talk to people, their loved ones, cut off, no cell phones, pinned down in basements, no electricity, no food.

[07:00:09]