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Civilian Evacuation Underway in One City Amid Ukraine, Russia Deal; U.S Foreign Policy Experts Urge Limited No-Fly Zone in Ukraine; Biden Faces Calls to Ban Oil Imports From Russia Amid War. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired March 08, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:07]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And just emotion that you're seeing as these people, in a matter of 15 minutes, have crossed over from an absolute hellscape into the relative security of this staging ground.

You do hear some artillery here, but it's not as close as it has been on other days. And, basically, what they're trying to do now, the authorities, they've got ambulances. They've got a tent over there, where they are taking some of the people, the more vulnerable. We have seen a lot of elderly people being evacuated today, a lot of people in wheelchairs.

And it's very cold here. So, some of them are being taken into that tent where there's heaters. They're being given some tea, trying to just calm them down, get some warmth into their bones. You can see over here as well some volunteers. They've got water. They've got soup. They're making coffees for people who might need that.

And then they're basically loaded on to these yellow buses over there. Those yellow buses will be taking most of them to the Kyiv central train station, where we were yesterday. We saw an entire elderly people's home, a nursing home, that was evacuated this morning. They were just put on one of those buses after waiting out here some hours.

Very old, very vulnerable, completely frightened, distressed, in a state of shock, a lot of them shivering from the cold, they're now being taken to some other kind of facility where they can have checks made upon them, medically. Obviously, some of them were not in a good state, some of them really just shivering, John, from the cold, and also the trauma of having been trapped in this nursing home for more than a week under heavy bombardment.

I also talked to a couple who were waiting here for two hours, waiting for their son to make the crossing. They had heard from him once. He managed to climb on top of a building, using an old cell phone, and called them to say he was alive. They were just reunited with him about half an hour ago. An extraordinarily moving scene as they realized he was still alive. He was here safely.

And these are the kinds of stories you're seeing here, John, from these people who really are the lucky ones now to be in the relative security of this space, to be reunited with loved ones. That couple who were meeting up with their son and his two dogs told me they are now going to start to drive to try to get out of Ukraine. Their plan is to try to get all the way to Germany.

A lot of others don't really have a plan yet. They're waiting to see how far they can get, where they can get. And most of them, as I said, will be taken in those yellow buses to the train station where, as you know from our report yesterday, John, they face another long wait. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: You say they are the lucky ones, the lucky once after five days of bombardment. The hugs, the kisses, the vision of pure relief on their faces, Clarissa, is so dramatic.

Listen, we also saw tanks take up positions, Russian tanks take up positions in Irpin within the last 24 hours. We know that just before that, that eight civilians were killed by Russian mortars, not far from where you're standing right now, Clarissa. Is this route -- how safe is this route that all these people are fleeing on right now?

WARD: So, today, the route, which is just across that way going over that bridge, today, the route does feel a bit more secure. There has been some artillery, as I mentioned, but people are still managing to cross. And from what we have seen here, the people now who are being evacuated from Irpin are really the most vulnerable. As I mentioned, we have seen a lot of wheelchairs. These are the people who it was hardest to move them out of those areas.

And when I spoke to that man who had been trapped in a hotel that he owns with his two dogs whose parents were waiting for him here, he said that the Russian soldiers were engaging in a lot of looting, that they were robbing people, taking their money, taking anything of value from the hotel that he owned, but also from residential homes. And so you can just imagine the terror, John, for people not just of the bombs falling, the shells falling but also of having Russian tanks and soldiers in your town, engaging in looting. You don't have a clear way out. You don't have a way to contact your loved ones on the other side.

[07:05:04]

And then the absolute disconnect and shock of finally being able to cross that bridge where others have been killed in previous days, as you've mentioned, and then finding yourself here with a welcoming committee, with people handing out coffees, relatives reunited, giving each other hugs. It is so much for these people to try to absorb, John.

And make no mistake about it, there are still people there. There are still people who are trapped, not just in Irpin, but in Bucha, in Borodyanka, and many other Kyiv suburbs that continue to be under heavy bombardment, John.

BERMAN: Yes, suffering under the terror. Clarissa Ward near Irpin, let's hope this route that we're watching people on stays safe for as long as possible so that they can get some sense of refuge. Clarissa Ward, thank you very much.

New Day continues right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world, it is Tuesday, March 8th. And for the next several hours, a humanitarian corridor is open for civilians to escape the northeastern Ukrainian city of Sumy, as long as Russian forces stop attacking. Overnight, the Ukrainian government offered from the Kremlin to set up this escape route.

Sumt has seen heavy fighting in recent days. Just last night, Ukraine says 21 people were killed by airstrikes, and that includes two children. Then moments ago, the Ukrainian reported a humanitarian convoy headed for Mariupol was shelled by Russian forces. We are monitoring that situation.

BERMAN: I want to go to CNN Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto, who is in Lviv this morning. Jim, I want a sense. You talked to U.S. officials here. We've been at this. They've been at this for more than ten days, this Russian invasion going on now. What's the sense of where things stand this morning?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: 12 days in, it will be two weeks on Thursday. It has been a consistent read for the last several days when I speak to U.S. officials based on latest U.S. intel assessments, that is that, yes, Russian forces are making progress. They are further surrounding cities in the east and getting closer sadly to surrounding the capital, Kyiv, but at enormous losses to Russian personnel and equipment, equipment on the ground, tanks, personnel carriers and equipment in the air.

But, sadly, with no concern, it seems, for those losses, right, that Putin is pushing forward despite this not going according to his plan. And what's happening as that original plan is shredded and they move on to plans B, C, et cetera, that part of those plans is extracting an enormous price from civilians. That is straight out of the Russian play book. And it goes back to Chechnya, repeated in Syria more recently and we're seeing it here. And that is you can't really look at these attacks on cities and civilian areas as, quote/unquote, collateral damage, you know, stray bullets, as it were, or stray shells. It's part of the plan, squeeze the civilian population. And that's both from the air, aerial bombardment and shelling, but also on the ground by restricting power, water, food, supplies that kind of thing.

And then when you set up these humanitarian corridors, they become targets as well. At least that's what Ukrainian officials are telling us. I spoke a number of times in the last few days with the deputy mayor of Mariupol who says that's exactly what he's seeing on the ground.

So, it's a long slog of a war. Russia not meeting its objectives on the timeframe that it wanted, but not deterred by those losses and pressing forward with a more horrific campaign.

BERMAN: Mariupol, just so people know, as we speak, Ukrainian officials are saying that the Russians are attacking humanitarian corridors in and out of that city. The Ukrainians are saying that civilians are suffering at this moment.

And, Jim, the reason I was asking about the big picture is because people have become used to this map right now, the areas in red under Russian military control or that's where the Russian military is operating. And they -- and you look at it and say, well, it hasn't really changed in the last few days, this map. But U.S. officials are telling you that the Russians still are making progress, albeit not as quickly as they had hoped?

SCIUTTO: Particularly in the south. More progress in the south, less so in the north and the east, but they're pushing ahead. And I think you make an interesting distinction and it's a point that General Hertling made on the air frequently is that let's not equate presence with control, right? Because a lot of those areas in red where there are Russian forces, it's not clear that they control those areas completely, right?

[07:10:02]

We have seen civilians contest, stand up and at great risk to themselves, stand in the way, protest those Russian forces but also those Russian forces continue to be attacked when they're even inside city centers.

So, it's presence, not control yet, and that speaks to just the longer conflict that I'm told by U.S. officials that we have to prepare ourselves for and sadly that the Ukrainian people are going to experience at greater and greater costs to themselves. It's -- listen, decisions can change at the top, but to date, Putin has shown no appetite for dialing anything back. In fact, as he meets resistance, his response, and, again, this is straight out of the Russian playbook is rain down hell, right? And we are seeing that every day.

BERMAN: Again, expect intense suffering, intensified suffering in the days and weeks ahead. Jim Sciutto, I really appreciate it giving us the big picture perspective here. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

BERMAN: So, this morning, as we saw from Clarissa Ward moments ago, evacuations under way from the region near Kyiv where we have seen heavy fighting.

I want to go to CNN's Alex Marquardt also in Kyiv this morning to give us a picture of what things look like there. Alex?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, I think the big question now is to what extent is Russia sticking to this commitment that they made last night to a cease-fire here in Ukraine that, according to their timeframe, has been under way for the past few hours. They announced the cease-fire for five Ukraine cities, including Kyiv and including Mariupol.

And as you were just saying -- noting with Jim, there have been accusations that the Russians are targeting a humanitarian aid convoy on its way into Mariupol, that city that has been besieged by Russian forces.

Here in Kyiv, it has been relatively quiet in the region overnight and into today. Much of the focus is to the west and to the north of the city. That's where Russia has been making their biggest push. That's where you just spoke with our colleague, Clarissa Ward. That's where we have been seeing this indiscriminate attacks on residential areas, like Borodyanka and Bucha and Irpin, which is where Clarissa is. So, those evacuations do continue.

We have seen deadly attacks on evacuees. On Sunday, some eight people were killed as they were trying to get out. And now we understand from the mayor of Irpin that the Russians have demanded they surrender. The mayor says, these monsters don't understand, we're not surrendering. We're fighting back. And his counterproposal was that the Russian troops just turn right back around and head home to their wives, to their partners, to their mothers and grandmothers, he said.

So, the Russian progress has come to a bit of a standstill in terms of the territory they're taking, but they certainly are stepping up their bombardment and their ferocity namely on civilian held areas. Because they have been running into that fierce Ukrainian resistance, not just from troops, we should note, but from civilians as well. All across the country, we have seen civilians marching right up to Ukrainian forces, including in a southern town called Chaplynka. That is just north of Crimea.

We know that Russian forces have come out of Crimea headed to the west, towards Odesa. And in this town, Chaplynka, these Ukrainians marched right up to those Russian forces who, by the way, opened fire. It looked like it was warning shots and telling them to go home, telling them that Chaplynka is our territory. It's part of Ukraine. That defiance that is just so incredible from Ukrainian civilians that you have to imagine the Russian forces did not imagine that they were going to run into when they invaded this country.

So, you have people putting up all kinds of fights, whether it's peaceful, whether they're taking up arms, but, of course, John, we should note that so many Ukrainians are also fleeing their homes. According to the U.N. today, more than 2 million people, 2 million Ukrainians have now left the country. John?

BERMAN: Alex Marquardt in Kyiv for us, Alex, thank you.

KEILAR: While the Biden administration has pushed back against establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine to avoid any direct conflict with Russia, this morning, a group of 27 U.S. foreign policy experts are urging a limited no-fly zone in an open letter to the administration.

Joining us now is CNN Military Analyst and Head of Geopolitical Strategy at Academy Securities, retired Major General James Spider Marks.

Okay, let's talk about the big picture here. Because as we understand it, according to the Pentagon, all of the capabilities, mostly the ground troops, that Putin had amassed on the outside are now on the inside of Ukraine. They're in the fight. So, what does the Russian position look like right now?

[07:15:00]

MAJ. GEN. JAMES SPIDER MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, clearly, what we see is a stalled operation. Again, Russia came in a whole bunch axis of advance, a whole bunch of different directions of advance, and they've stalled down. Instead of, in lieu of, applying mass, one of those principles of war we talk about, mass on the primary objective, the center of gravity, they came in a whole bunch of different directions. So, they've stalled. And all their chips are on the table now.

What we do not see is additional forces coming in from Russia prepositioning to reinforce these. I mean, that's how the Soviets fought, and we would imagine the Russians as well. They provide an echelon. Once they reach a culminating point, they then roll the next echelon in and we don't see that. We see everything on the table right now and it's stalled.

KEILAR: There's no one-two bunch, right, there's no two punch?

MARKS: You're exactly correct.

KEILAR: As we look at the south, this is, of course, where there has been progress on the part of the Russian forces.

MARKS: Right.

KEILAR: But it's slow going here.

MARKS: Yes, incredibly slow going. What Russia wants to do, obviously, is to create this land bridge from Crimea all the way into Russia. What's interesting is the target the Odesa. That's the port city. They want to get Odesa. They haven't done that yet, as we can see. This is where they're located. They're tied down. They can't get to Odesa.

But I think there are some considerations about the sea state, what's happening with the tides, what's happening with the defenses that are coming in there but the Russians are not prepared. I would suspect that if they were prepared, they would have already gone into Odesa. That has not taken place, which means there are some environmental considerations that they're taking into account.

KEILAR: That are not friendly to an amphibious landing, is that what it is?

MARKS: Exactly correct.

KEILAR: Okay. So, tell us a little bit about the corridor. Because, right now, the big story, of course, is there's so much shelling going on in these cities. Civilians are paying the price. How do you get them out? They're stuck the middle of this. MARKS: Yes. That's the sad face of this. And your contributors, your reporters, your folks on your anchors on the ground have done a phenomenal job putting the human face on combat. You can't extract that from this. This is not anti-septic. This is human. This is nasty. This is horrible.

So, what we see right now is you've got corridors, for example, from here, which are active, as they say, right here, active corridors, and then you have to follow on into Russia. And as we were discussing, Brianna, I mean, when you start coming -- when Ukrainians start crossing the border into Russia, Russia is going to use that as propaganda. See all these Ukrainian citizens that want to return to the homeland, want to be a part of Russia, that's unfortunate, but it's an opportunity to get to some degree of safety.

Who knows what's going to happen once they get over here. They might be arrested. They might be put into relocation camps. I'm not saying that it's going to be good news. But at least nobody is shooting at them immediately.

And then all these other corridors, I mean, these are what the Russians have been doing. These are open target lanes. Put your folks on these corridors and we're just going to kind of take advantage of them. If you're foolish enough to believe what the Russians are saying, have a nice day. It's going to be horrible.

KEILAR: Yes. We have seen some terrible stuff happening where people are trying to either officially or unofficially get to safety. Thank you so much for taking us through that, General. I really appreciate it.

MARKS: Thank you.

KEILAR: Ukrainian citizens are now escaping some of these cities after Russia has promised safe passage. Are they going to keep that promise? We'll be hearing from a mayor inside of Ukraine.

And a tough choice for Joe Biden, what countries could he turn to if he boycotts Russian oil?

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[07:20:00]

KEILAR: As President Biden is looking for help in shutting off Russia's oil revenues, he's looking for replacement for that oil. He's now engaging with Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and even Iran to potentially replace that Russian fuel that could be lost.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is live at the State Department with more. I mean, this is the story, right? He's having to deal -- the administration is having to deal with some unpalatable countries as they try to make their stand here.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Brianna. I mean, this effort to try and identify energy oil supplies around the globe even in countries with authoritarian actors in control, demonstrates just how far the Biden administration is willing to go right now to inflict a cost on Moscow and, of course, to stabilize the global oil market.

So, let's look back. Over the weekend, Biden administration officials traveled to Venezuela to discuss the possibility of them selling oil on to the international markets to potentially replace Russian oil. Now, of course, the Biden administration doesn't have a relationship with President Maduro. They have slapped sanctions on him and those who work for him due to human rights abuses in the country. So, that is one instance that we're looking at here.

And then you look at Saudi Arabia. And earlier this year, two Biden administration officials also traveled to Saudi Arabia. And according to the White House, they discussed efforts to try and design a collaborative approach to what could be the impacts on the markets from a Russian invasion into Ukraine. Of course, now we have seen that happen. And, thus far, we should note, that Saudi has been resistant to ramping up that production. And so that is a key here.

Now, that's why we're told that President Biden is actually considering a presidential trip to Saudi Arabia, to try and convince them to ramp up that supply. And then the last one that we have is Iran. This Iran nuclear deal, these talks are occurring while this crisis is occurring. And there is some added urgency to those talks because if there's a deal, Iran could also be open to supplying more oil to the international market.

So, a tremendous number of moving pieces here, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes.

[07:25:00]

Russia has a say in all of this. Putin, an ally Maduro, Russia has a say in this, and a potential Iran nuclear deal. So, we'll see how this all shakes out, Kylie. Thank you so much, live from the State Department.

BERMAN: And joining us now is Democratic Congressman Raul Ruiz of California. He just took part in a bipartisanship delegation, a trip to the border of Poland and Ukraine to assess the refugee crisis. Congressman, thanks for being with us.

I do want to ask you about your trip in a moment, but, first, the report we just had from the State Department that the Biden administration making contact with Venezuela, the Maduro regime, possibly to fill the hole of Russian oil with Venezuelan oil, how comfortable are you with that?

REP. RAUL RUIZ (D-CA): Well, that's a difficult situation, of course, which is very complex. On one side, we do not want to import Russian oil. I'm in full agreement in embargoing that oil because they're using those revenues to fuel this war. But we have to look at all of our options and allow the administration to do their research, to do their negotiations and look at other countries to determine how we're going to help stabilize our own need for oil.

But this just goes to the point that we need to no longer have our reliance and dependence on oil, and that's why we need to continue to move our policies towards renewable energies.

BERMAN: You, Congressman, are you comfortable with Venezuelan oil?

RUIZ: You know, at this -- look, this is the point what we're in right now. I just was at the Ukrainian/Poland border. I saw women, elderly, children, children with disabilities fleeing for their lives, crying. I saw the individuals who were just sobbing because they left behind their husband or their life was just uprooted. This is war. And we need to do everything to help the Ukrainians.

BERMAN: As you just said, you were at the border. You're an emergency physician also. How would you assess the condition of people you saw? And it has now reached 2 million people have fled across various borders.

RUIZ: Well, that number is only going to grow, John. You know, what we saw, there was about 100,000, 150,000 people crossing the border every single night. And my view, on the other Polish side of the border, is different than what's happening inside of Ukraine. What I saw were the individuals who were able to walk out of there. And the first wave of individuals are people with money, people with passports, people with friends and families in other countries and people that had the means to get out of there in the first wave.

What was remarkable, John, was that I didn't see the large refugee camps that one usually sees under these circumstances, and that's because of the heroic compassion of the Polish people who have taken individuals into their homes and sometimes two families into two- bedroom apartments, which is incredible. But that is soon going to run out because we're going to see more and more individuals coming into Poland. That is why right now we -- the United States and the NATO and European countries needs to come together and create a plan, a path to accept refugees immediately so that we don't have the overburdened Polish government. And they start to see these non-ideal, large refugee camps.

BERMAN: Congressman, there's continued discussion about whether or not NATO and the United States should impose some kind of no-fly zone, limited or otherwise. How do you feel about that?

RUIZ: You know, the number one frustration on the ground by the humanitarian community, and I'm a trained humanitarian aid specialist in my international emergency medicine specialty as well, john, is that the security for noncombatant international, neutral humanitarians is poor. And so they're very reluctant to go in because they're hearing of the abuses of Vladimir Putin's army on the noncombatants.

But it is vital that we continue to put pressure as an international community on Vladimir Putin to honor international humanitarian law. There are women, children, disabled, the elderly, those with chronic illnesses, those in hospitals that need to be evacuated yesterday. But they're unable to because Vladimir Putin is continuing to target civilians, targeting hospitals, which is a violation of international humanitarian law and we need security.

So, the United States needs to provide the military and the humanitarian aid necessary for Ukrainians to protect their airspace. And if this continues, then the United States needs to go into further strong negotiations with the parties using the United Nations in a diplomatic way to enforce a humanitarian protected corridor to get those individuals out.

BERMAN: Nuance there, Congressman Raul Ruiz, thank you for being with us this morning.

[07:30:01]

I appreciate it.

RUIZ: Thank you.