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Shevrin Jones is Interviewed about Florida's Don't Say Gay Bill; U.S. Rejects Fighter Jets to Ukraine. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 09, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

LAWRENCE SUMMERS, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: At that time was probably closer than what would go to -- what would go with $5 gas today. So, I think this is a strong and welcomed step. Whether there are other ways we could do it, whether we could be placing a more burdensome tax on Russia is, I think, a question that needs to be looked at. What the terms of cooperation are, I think that needs to be looked at. I think we can be more aggressive than we've been about making sure that we're maximizing our domestic supplies as rapidly as possible, maximizing the draw from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve so that we're insulating ourselves to the maximum extent possible. But I think this is broadly appropriate.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: How high do you think gas prices could go?

SUMMERS: I would not be surprised if we saw $5 -- if we saw $5 gasoline at some point in this. And that's going to be disruptive of -- for many people. But if you think about the sacrifices that are being made by the people of Ukraine, if you think about our stake in stopping a tyrant who is trying to expand, that is a price that is very much worth paying.

BERMAN: Secretary, can I ask you, there's he official actions being taken by the Biden administration, and then there are these private companies. And we've got a board here that shows all these companies that have suspended or, in different ways, altered or removes their businesses from Russia. How much of an impact do these private decisions make?

SUMMERS: Look, I think everything is coming together to isolate Vladimir Putin. There are a lot of innocent Russians who are the victims here. But as long as Russia is waging an invasion and a war against civilians, I think seeking to isolate their economy from the global trading system is the right thing to do. I think seeking to work with others to isolate Russia is the right thing to do. You know, in a -- in a real sense what some have called a holiday from

history is probably over for the United States. And we've got much more to worry about in our terms -- in terms of our national security than most Americans realized a year ago. And we're going to have to invest more in our national defense. We're going to need to do more to make sure that our economy can be more self-reliant. We're going to have to engage in alliances, some of which aren't going to be the most comfortable alliances for us. But that's what you do when there are real threats to global security.

BERMAN: Larry Summers, we appreciate you being with us this morning. A sobering discussion, but thank you.

SUMMERS: Thank you.

BERMAN: The breaking news, a warning from Ukraine about power being shut off to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant.

Plus, here in the United States, this controversial new school policy in Florida dubbed the don't say gay bill now heading to the governor's desk. Our next guest is a state senator who was brought to tears by its passage.

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[08:38:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We'll go back to Ukraine here in just a moment.

First, though, here in the U.S., lawmakers in Florida gave final approval to a controversial bill that would ban certain instruction about sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom. The bill is on its way to the desk of republican Governor Ron DeSantis, who has voiced his support for the measure. It's not without pushback, though. One lawmaker even brought to tears, pleading for his colleagues to reconsider.

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SHEVRIN JONES (D), FLORIDA STATE SENATOR: I never knew that living my truth would cause church members to leave my dad's church, or friends to stop talking to me, or families to make jokes about who you are.

We have gone down a road to where we're scared to just step out to make sure we're not hurting people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining me now is that lawmaker, Florida State Senator Shevrin Jones.

Senator, really an incredibly touching moment where you were sharing of yourself. And I just wonder, you know, what were you thinking in that moment as you were looking at this bill that will likely be signed into law and how it might have affected you as a young person in school?

SHEVRIN JONES (D), FLORIDA STATE SENATOR: Yes, thank you, Brianna.

And one thing that I was thinking about were the young people who were outside of the senate chambers who was chanting for the young people who came to my office to speak to me about the reason why this bill was coming forward. And all I can do was think about my young self, and being raised in Miami, in a very loving household, but in a household where my parents was -- their values just did not believe in the LGBTQ movement or the LGBTQ community.

[08:40:00]

KEILAR: What is it --you know, this, to be clear what this does, it prohibits instruction about sexual identity or gender identity through third grade. And then any instruction talking about it after that needs to be what's considered age appropriate.

What is your worry about what this bill will do?

JONES: You know, and the worry is, in the language, within section three of the bill, it's the or age appropriate that many of us are concerned about. I don't think anyone is promoting that a child that's in kindergarten, first, second and third grade should be taught about sexuality at all. There were amendments that were filed to deal with all of the concerns to make sure that what my Republican colleagues said they wanted to do was done. So, the biggest concern is the or age appropriate, because we did not define within that bill what is age appropriate.

KEILAR: Are you worried that, you know, a young person, who, you know, realizes they're gay, that they won't be able to be themselves? I mean what is -- or they will be discriminated against, that that could be endorsed essentially by this bill? What is the concern about the environment this would create?

JONES: Absolutely. It's going to create an environment where it's going to continue to keep children more closeted. It's going to put more of a sensor on teachers, where teachers are -- as a former teacher, teachers are the first responders to a lot of problems that children come to speak to someone about. So, it's not going to be beneficial to the teacher, nor to the student.

And let's be clear, the Trevor Project did a study, and come to find out that LGBTQ youth are four times more likely to commit suicide, not because of their sexual orientation, but it's how they are treated. And that is actually the message that I was trying convey to my colleagues in the room. Yes, you can have your belief, but who are you hurting in this language that you're pushing, not just in Florida, but nationally.

KEILAR: You -- I mean you came out late in life.

JONES: I did.

KEILAR: Just tell me a little bit about your experience with family and friends. You did talk about it on the floor there about how tough that has been as a -- when you were 34, not when you were, you know, in school.

JONES: Absolutely. And just like I said in the beginning, that I was raised in a very loving household. I love my mother and my father with all my heart. My parents were very strict. They -- we -- my dad's a pastor in south Florida. And from a very large congregation. And so there was a -- I did not want to embarrass my parents. So I lived this lie for 30 plus years. And I just knew that, you know what, it doesn't make sense for me to continue living this lie. My parents always told me to tell the truth. So I wanted to tell the truth.

So, by the time I got elected, I don't know who I could help by just being honest. But I did not -- also did not know in me coming out that it would cause so much -- it would -- that it would cause church members to leave my dad's church, that it would cause family members to talk bad about me behind my back, right?

And so a lot of these things that me living my truth, it came with repercussions and consequences. But I have come to the point to where I believe that when you become OK with it, you give everybody else the ability to become OK with it. And if they're not, then it's fine. And so now I just use my voice to help other young people who might be in the same predicament that I'm in.

KEILAR: Well, we appreciate you being here to share your voice today. Florida State Senator Shevrin Jones, thanks so much.

JONES: Thank you, Brianna.

We do have some more on our breaking news, the war in Ukraine.

Ukraine saying that they're -- this morning there actually may be 48 hours until a potential radiation leak. Yes, you heard that right. After the Chernobyl nuclear plant was damaged, some power issues there, keeping in mind that Russians are currently in control of it.

Plus, a surprise offer from Poland to assist in supplying Ukraine with MiG-29 fighter jets. Why the offer caught the Pentagon off guard and why it was rejected, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:48:12]

BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news for you. We had told you that Ukrainian officials said they were concerned that power had been cut off to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, which meant that the spent nuclear fuel rods weren't being cooled sufficiently. Well, we just saw this statement from the international Atomic Energy Agency. I want to read this to you, right. It says, Ukraine has informed the IAEA f power loss at Chernobyl. Rafael Grossi, who's the head of it, says the development violates key safety pillars on ensuring uninterrupted power supply. In this case, though, the IAEA sees no critical impact on safety. The IAEA says heat load of spent fuel storage pool and volume of cooling water at Chernobyl is sufficient for effective heat removal without need for electrical supply.

All right, well, there you have that right there, the IAEA says, as of now, they are not concerned with this issue, even though it does violate safety protocols. We'll get more on that for you ahead.

Also moments ago, Vice President Kamala Harris departed Washington, D.C., on route to Warsaw in Poland following the U.S. rejection of an offer from Poland to send MiG fighter jets to a U.S. air base in Germany, then to be delivered to Ukraine.

John Kirby put out a statement saying, quote, we will continue to consult with Poland and other NATO allies about this issue, and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland's proposal to be a tenable one.

Joining me now, after a short walk, CNN's senior political correspondent Abby Phillip, as well as CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger.

So much going on this morning. The issue with Chernobyl seems to be resolved at least for the moment. That leaves us with this issue with Poland, with these jets.

[08:50:03]

The MiGs that the Ukrainians badly want. And there's clearly a discussion about getting it to them, but the how. How to get it to them, in which way. Where do you see this going, David?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I don't think it's going to happen. And the reason I don't think it's going to happen is, what we're seeing is that Poland and the United States and the rest of NATO are trying to hand off the question of who's responsible for being the last one to have their hands on the MiGs before they go into Ukrainian hands, because they know that the Russians are going to say, you are now a co-combatant, you are -- supplied Russian -- Ukrainian pilots with these MiGs to go up in the air in combat with the U.S.

So, the Poles looked at this. And the original idea was, they would just send it to Ukraine. They said, no, we're not doing that. We'll hand them to the United States at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. And the Pentagon, within hours, came out in that statement that you mentioned from John Kirby basically saying, we do not think this is tenable. And the reason is, President Biden has said he does not want to be the one that hands an active jet to the Ukrainians that puts us right in the combat.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not to mention that the proposal from Poland was to put it at -- on a NATO base, which sort of almost de facto involves NATO in that process. So, it is this hot potato from a military and a diplomatic perspective. And it just illustrates the tight spot that the European allies are in. They want to help, but they know that Russia -- frankly, I mean, Russia has drawn a lot of lines here. They've drawn lines on sanctions. They've drawn lines on the airfields that military support can come from. And they've drawn lines on this plane. And so the question for the United States and Europe is, how far do you -- do you want to push this? And I think the answer right now is that they believe that going this far, even though there's bipartisan support to do it, going this far would simply involve the United States too much in this conflict.

BERMAN: The political calculation here, and the Biden White House has moved on any number of issues.

PHILLIP: Yes.

BERMAN: Whether it be -- whether it be, you know, sanctions, whether it be oil imports, but saying no to Ukraine is politically hard.

PHILLIP: It is. I mean and after this call with Zelenskyy over the weekend with senators, that's where this idea of the fighter jets really took off. You had senators in both parties saying, let's figure out a way to do this. And the administration saying back, yes, we're interested in figuring it out, but the practicalities of it are much more difficult. And especially for a nation like Poland that has always been kind of in the middle -- caught in the middle between NATO and Russia, it's a very difficult spot to put Poland in.

SANGER: There's an additional issue here that one of the president's aides was describing to me last night. But there are legal definitions of what makes you a co-combatant or not. We use this as the United States thinks about cyber action against Russia or thinks about whether or not sending in those anti-tank weapons, which we've sent so many of, it makes you a co-combatant.

The problem is, Vladimir Putin may not be working from the same set of legal definitions.

PHILLIP: Right.

SANGER: And already you have seen the Russians say, if an airplane leaves from an air base, that air base is going to be considered to be a target.

BERMAN: But just airplanes. Not the javelins.

PHILLIP: Right.

BERMAN: You know, 17,000 javelins can come over the border on the back of a truck or a train, but not 24 airplanes?

PHILLIP: There is something about this that seems a little arbitrary from the Russian perspective.

SANGER: Yes.

PHILLIP: That that -- you have Putin and others in Russia basically saying, almost at random, not working off of international law, if you do this, we're going to consider it an act of war. If you do that, we're going to consider it an act of war. And for the -- from the United States' perspective, that's not very predictable. You don't know what the reaction is going to be. SANGER: And Abby's got it exactly right, because we are in completely

new territory here because we're running a proxy war and we've got all of these sort of shadow war methods of going after them (ph).

BERMAN: What are Putin's lines? Do you really know? Does anyone really know what the real lines are?

SANGER: There are three mysteries here. Mystery number one is, how far does Putin want to push this? Does he really want to take all of Ukraine? Second is, what's his line for going after NATO countries for the reasons we've just discussed? And I think the third one is, what weapons, at the end of the day, is he willing to use? He's got chemical weapons. We haven't seen them. He's got tactical nuclear weapons. You can't imagine what that would be if he went off and did it. But I have to tell you, I have been in more conversations with more people in the Defense Department in the past week about the potential, even if it is very small, that this is where this ends up, than I've ever been in, in my career.

Now, I think the chance that he's going to do that is really, really tiny, but I would have said to you that a lot of things have happened here, you know, a few months ago looked like small chances.

BERMAN: Well, that's pretty chilling.

David Sanger, Abby Phillip, appreciate you being here.

[08:55:02]

Great to see you both in person.

We have much more on our breaking news.

Evacuations underway in several key Ukrainian cities. We're live on the ground, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: In the face of war, Ukrainians remain defiant. Moments ago, musicians with the Kyiv Classic Symphony Orchestra playing an incredibly moving rendition of the Ukraine and EU anthems in Madan (ph) Square surrounded by Ukrainian flags. An emotional crowd gathering together to listen to the performance as this city prepares for a Russian attack.

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