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Wimbledon May Ban Russian Players; Tom Nichols is Interviewed about NATO's Involvement with Ukraine; Poland Under Strain from Refugees. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 18, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:46]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The number one ranked tennis player in the world, Daniil Medvedev from Russia, could be banned from this year's Wimbledon unless he gives assurances that he does not support President Vladimir Putin, which is something requested by the U.K. sports minister.

Joining us now with more insight is CNN contributor Patrick McEnroe. He is also an ESPN commentator and the host of "The Holding Court" podcast.

So, how real is this that he needs to give this assurance, and how, I guess, significant or unprecedented is this, Patrick?

PATRICK MCENROE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Brianna, I think this is unprecedented and I do not think it is going to happen. I don't think it should happen that the Russian tennis players, whether it's Daniil Medvedev, who, as you said, is ranked number one in the world, or Andrey Rublev, who is actually still here in California at the BNP Paribas Open. He'll play later today in the quarter finals. I don't think this makes any sense at all to force the Russian players to have to take this kind of political stance. Both of those players that I mentioned, Medvedev, who's number one, Rublev, who's number seven, have come out and said they're in favor of peace and no war.

Now, interestingly, they haven't specifically mentioned Ukraine because, well, I'm going to come up with a -- my guess as to why. Their families are still in Russia. They participate in normal life in Russia. In fact, Rublev's parents are coaches that work within the system there. So, I'm told by some sources very close to the players, they don't want to make any public comments about this other than what they've already stated, which is that they're against war in general, not specifically against this one, because of fear of repercussions that could happen to their families. So as if they don't have enough to worry about, now they've got to deal with this.

But I don't think that personally putting out these individual players and forcing them to make these comments is appropriate at all. The Russian teams, Brianna, have already been banned from international tennis competitions. I think that was the right thing to do by the tennis authorities. But I think this would be going one step too far.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're not playing -- when you're playing a tennis tournament, you're not playing under a flag, as it were. You're entering a -- you know, as an individual.

I was going to ask you, I mean, you think they're scared? I mean do you think they're playing under threat at this point?

MCENROE: I think they're playing with a lot of thoughts in their mind, John, that are concerning. They're worried. You know, both of those guys were scheduled to go and play an exhibition match after this tournament ends, before the next big one, which is in Miami, in about a weeks' time, in Mexico. They had to cancel plans to do that because they were going to take a private plane to go and play this event. They're not allowed to do that at this point in time as Russian citizens. So, they're having to deal with a lot of things.

The good news is, here in California, in the desert at the BNP Paribas Open, which is where I am, the players have been well received by the fans. There was a lot of concern about how the fans would receive when they came out. This is really the first time this tournament is back after the pandemic. It was two years ago to this week, essentially, that this was one of the first biggest events, sporting events, that shut down out here in the California desert.

So those players were received well, as were other players from those parts of the world. Daniil Medvedev, interesting, John, lost to Gael Monfils, who's a very popular French player, who is married to Elina Svitolina, the top player from Ukraine.

So, I'm also told there are a lot of things happening within the locker room, within the player areas. I'm not going to say there's controversy, but there's -- there are a lot of things going on because these are players that come from all parts of the world, and a lot of them come from Belarus, from Russia, from Ukraine. We've seen even a couple of former Ukrainian male tennis players taking up arms. And, in fact, Alex Dolgopolov, who recently retired from playing on the men's tour, said on his Twitter account that he believes Russian players should not be able to play at all because he's in Kyiv trying to defend his country.

[08:35:01]

KEILAR: Yes, we've spoken with some of those tennis players. It's amazing to see.

Patrick, great to see you. Thank you so much.

MCENROE: Thank you. Good morning to you guys.

KEILAR: So, coming up, why NATO's involvement in the war on Ukraine may be exactly what Putin is hoping for.

BERMAN: And we have brand new video just in to CNN. A new strike on an apartment building in Kyiv overnight as authorities report 60 civilians, including four children, have been killed in Kyiv since the start of the war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BERMAN: Ukrainian President Zelenskyy has repeatedly called for NATO to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine. A measure that President Biden and European leaders have rejected. They argue that doing so would bring NATO in to direct conflict with Russia and could possibly trigger World War III.

A new piece in "The Atlantic" argues that a NATO intervention in Ukraine would be giving Putin exactly what he wants.

Joining us now is "Atlantic" contributing writer Tom Nichols.

And, Tom, you go beyond even the no-fly zone here.

[08:40:01]

You basically just say that it would be a dream for Putin to draw NATO in more directly. Why? Why would it be helpful to Putin?

TOM NICHOLS, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Because Putin's made a complete hash of this invasion of Ukraine. He really somehow thought that this thing would be over in like two days. He was assured by his intelligence and military professionals that the whole operation could probably be wrapped up in three or four days. Now he's in a quagmire, a complete mess, and it's a nightmare for Russians to be fighting with their brother and sister Slavs in Ukraine.

If NATO were to enter the fight, Putin could then turn this into a nationalistic war against forces of the west. A kind of war that Russians have psychologically been prepared for, for 70 years, and to say, this is not about fighting Ukraine, this is about fighting the forces of the west led by the United States and Britain, and, very importantly, Germany.

KEILAR: Part of the caution with Putin and Russia, obviously, is that they have nuclear weapons. And there's this question about getting close to engagement or engaging. Would he use these nuclear weapons? I thought there was something very interesting that you said because as we discuss it, I think we're sort of assuming that people are rational actors or that countries are rational actors. But you say a nuclear crisis is not an orderly duel or a game with rules but rather a maelstrom of poor information, conflicting signals and highly charged emotions. I mean it sounds like you think this really is a risk.

NICHOLS: Absolutely. If NATO enters this, Putin will have managed to turn this regional war, this war of choice, this unprovoked aggression against its neighbor, into a general European war, and then from there into a war with the United States and 29 other countries. And, at that point, it's just hard to imagine that nuclear threats aren't going to become part of that. I think they will be anyway because Putin's losing, and he may resort to those kinds of threats. But if NATO's involved, it will make it very easy for him to say, here are things that I, you know, intend to use nuclear weapons to stop, including NATO air bases that are flying missions, for example.

So, somehow the idea that will -- you know, this will all just proceed along this very orderly path where he fights and we respond and he comes back at us, and then somehow we make clear how important this is to us, that's not how crises work. Crises are about emotion and misconception, and misperception, and misinformation. And with that many pieces in motion across the board in Europe, I think that would be an immensely dangerous thing that even Putin wouldn't want to try to deal with down the line. Certainly we wouldn't want to.

BERMAN: You know, in that way, and you write this, some people have compared Putin to Hitler and look at this as World War II. But you say the better analogy might be World War I, where you have unintended consequences.

NICHOLS: Right. You know, the problem here is that I think everybody, including Putin, thinks that by escalating and making threats that you can somehow bring this whole thing to a conclusion that doesn't get out of control. That's what people thought in July 1914. And that's one of the things that really concerns me here is that when enough people, enough countries become invested in a major European conflict, it's not that you lose this clear-cut, moral issue that's before us right now, which is Putin trying to subjugate an innocent and unaggressive neighbor. But with enough countries involved and fighting breaking out all over the continent of Europe, you can lose track of what's happening pretty fast. And that's more like what happened in World War I, where people went from a crisis that they didn't expect into a cataclysm they didn't want.

BERMAN: Tom Nichols, great to have you on this morning. Thanks so much for being with us.

NICHOLS: Thank you.

BERMAN: Two million Ukrainian refugees have now poured into Poland since the Russian invasion began, and resources there wearing thin.

KEILAR: Plus, new CNN reporting this morning on the dire impact this war is also having on the Russian military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:49:04]

KEILAR: At least 2 million refugees are seeking protection in Poland from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But as the war intensifies and more and more people are crossing the border, helping all of those in need is becoming overwhelming.

CNN's Melissa Bell is live for us in Poland with more.

Melissa, tell us what you've been seeing?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, in towns like this, it is the extraordinary outpouring of solidarity that has been quite remarkable. This town of Przemysl, which is at the foothills of the Carpathian Mountains, a tourist destination ordinary times, has a population of some 60,000.

Now, what the mayor of this town is telling us this morning is that in the early days of the war, it was 55,000 refugees that were arriving every day here. That means that essentially this town's population was practically doubling in the early days of the war.

And what's remarkable is that more than three weeks into it, that solidarity, that sense of wanting to help, that the local population has had, is really undimmed.

[08:50:04]

What has been happening, though, is that people are getting tired.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BELL (voice over): It's been a long road. Liberty may lie ahead, but at least safety has been reached for now. Ukrainian children and their mothers who made it just across the border to Poland, their first night of peace spent in a school gym. So much of what is here provided by volunteers.

ADAM WASOWICZ, VOLUNTEER (through translator): In the beginning, the aid flowed spontaneously from many different sources. But I must admit these were not from the government. I do not hide that we are disappointed here because this volunteering has accelerated, we are starting to fade here.

BELL: But, still, more refugees arrive at the border town of Przemysl, about a thousand per train and several trains a day. Carrying what little they can of their former lives. Pinning their hopes of survival on the kindness of strangers. Mainly women and children who have left their fighting-aged men behind.

ALESSANDRA OVSIIENKO, UKRAINIAN REFUGEE: It's difficult. And really I don't know what I feels because I have a little baby. I love my family. I have -- I had plans, and now I don't have plans.

BELL: Of the more than 3 million who have fled Ukraine, about 2 million have come to Poland, a figure that means that the country's population has risen by 5 percent.

MAYOR WOJCIECH BAKUN, PRZEMYSL, POLAND: We react very quick, but we can do this for three, four weeks, not -- not for long time. So, we just wait for reaction. Our government as well as the EU countries.

BELL: In Brussels, the commissioner in charge gave a tour on Thursday of the emergency response coordination center from where the European Union is organizing its largest emergency response to date.

JANEZ LENARCIC, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR CRISIS MANAGEMENT: We now have 1 million refugees per week. So, if this goes on, if this goes on ten more weeks, yes, we could reach the figure of 15 million people.

BELL: European transport ministers meeting last weekend in the Polish city of Krakow to try and figure out the problem of bottlenecks caused by the sheer number of people arriving at places like Przemysl station, seeking peace and, for now, just safety.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELL: Brianna, the fear is that as the fighting worsens and heads westward in Ukraine, there will be more people coming through towns like this heading still for that very uncertain future further into the European Union.

KEILAR: Melissa, thank you for that report.

That woman saying, I had plans, and I don't have plans is speaking for so many Ukrainians whose futures are wiped away by this.

Melissa, thanks for the report.

The breaking news overnight, the western city of Lviv, just miles from the Polish border, hit by Russian missiles. The war is now within miles of the NATO border.

BERMAN: And a heartbreaking statistic encapsulated by this searing image.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:48]

KEILAR: Residents who escaped the Ukrainian city of Mariupol said the Russian siege has cut off access to clean drinking water. That's why CNN Hero Doc Hendley, with his non-profit Wine to Water is stepping in to help with their largest water filter shipment ever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOC HENDLEY, CNN HERO: Bottled water and sometimes even tap water in these communities is a luxury that most people do not have access to right now.

We're going to be sending about 12,000 water filters split up between three different drops inside western Ukraine and then at the two different borders, Poland and Romania. That's enough to clean 2.4 million gallons of water every single day.

People are just scrounging, trying to find something to drink, and they end up trying to take water from an unsafe source. It's going to give them diarrhea and dehydrate them even faster. And we've already gotten word that that's beginning to happen.

My hope is we're going to be able to get as many people that are struggling to find clean water access to clean water ASAP.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

And to learn more about Wine to Water, and to nominate your own CNN hero, just go to cnnheroes.com.

BERMAN: So we have a remarkable image this morning out of Lviv in western Ukraine. These are empty strollers. One hundred and nine empty strollers, lined up in memory of the 109 children the Ukrainians say have been killed in the Russian invasion. The city's mayor posted the photo on social media with a caption that read in part, empty prams in Rynok Square today symbolize the lives of little angels. They are now defending Ukraine's sky instead of decisive actions of the world. He concluded with a call to action, urging people around the world to share the image with the hash tag, close the skies.

And you see these images, these strollers, these prams, 109 of them. Those are the lives lost among the children. It doesn't even take into account the million or more children who have been forced to flee over the border as refugees.

KEILAR: I think this really drives it home, too. You think of the -- think of this image, think of it happening here, and just ponder the acceptability of it. It's unacceptable. It's very painful to look at. It's hard to imagine it happening here, but sometimes I think that's important because you have to understand what's really going on.

[09:00:06]

BERMAN: Think if it's your stroller or your child.

KEILAR: Yes.

BERMAN: All right, a lot of news to follow this morning. CNN's coverage continues right now.