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Millions Fleeing as Russians Bomb Ukrainian Cities 'to Ashes'; Ukraine Regains Control of Kyiv Suburb; U.S. Unable to Identify Top Russian Field Commander in Ukraine; Russian TV Dismisses Schwarzenegger Video as Propaganda; Biden Warns U.S. Businesses to Prepare for Russian Cyberattacks. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired March 22, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:58:56]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. It is Tuesday, March 22. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington with John Berman live in Lviv, Ukraine.

The resistance is holding this morning in Kyiv. Russians warn Ukraine apparently reaching a stalemate, or nearing one. In fact, just West of the capital, Ukrainian forces have actually regained control of Makariv after days of heavy fighting.

Russian troops said to be retreating, and Ukraine's state flag raised once again over the city.

Kyiv will remain under curfew until Wednesday morning. There is already so much devastation in the city. This man, combing through the ruins of his apartment, the exterior wall blown completely off the building.

And new details about the Russian strike that levelled a shopping mall, killing at least eight. The Kremlin says Ukrainian forces were hiding rocket launchers inside. That is the Kremlin's claim.

Russia's Defense Ministry releasing a video claiming that it shows a weapons system being hit. Ukraine is dismissing that.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In Mariupol, the once vibrant port city, there is now mostly rubble. Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, says it is reduced to ashes but insists it will survive.

The E.U.'s foreign policy chief describes what's happening in Mariupol as a massive war crime.

One man who just escaped told me this about Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I couldn't have imagined two months ago that something awful like this, such a crime could take place. How is this even possible? He's a murderer. How can a person feel when this is the only thing left? I have absolutely nothing now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Russia's assault on the city has been relentless. This drone video shows an industrial compound in Mariupol bombed beyond recognition.

Now, in Kherson, several hundred protesters gathered in Freedom Square only to be dispersed quite violently by Russian troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(EXPLOSION)

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Ukraine's military says the Russians used stun grenades and gunfire on the demonstrators. At least one person was wounded.

U.S. defense officials tell CNN that Russian military units across Ukraine are in disarray, often competing with each other for resources, rather than coordinating their efforts. In fact, the Pentagon's not even sure who Russia's top field commander is.

With things going so frustratingly for Vladimir Putin, President Biden is now warning U.S. business leaders to prepare for Russian cyberattacks.

I'm joined here in Lviv by CNN's Phil Black.

And Phil, the news this morning in Kyiv, that this town right next door, Makariv, that the Ukrainians have taken it back. Talk to me about that.

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So that's just to the West of Kyiv, John, only a short drive away, really. It has been the scene of some intense fighting in the earliest days of the war, particularly so in the last 24 hours and, by all accounts and from images we've seen, there's not a lot of the town left.

But reclaiming control of it is potentially significant in terms of disrupting Russia's plans to get much closer to the city of Kyiv, the capital, encircle it, and then eventually take it.

It's another example of the fierce resistance that Ukrainian forces are said to be showing on the ground when up close with their Russian opponents.

And that fits with the analysis that we've been hearing from western governments, that that fierce defense up close is proving to be a real demoralizing factor for Russian forces, and it is also changing their behavior. It is why we are increasingly seeing them fire their munitions from a distance. Sometimes in a targeted way; often in an indiscriminate way.

But I think, still, the most powerful example of Ukraine's defiance remains Mariupol, the southern port city, under blockade, under bombardment for weeks, where the civilian suffering is just so immense. You're right, President Zelenskyy said overnight it is being turned to ashes.

The analysis there suggests that Russia is sending a message, first of all, to other Ukrainian cities: defy us and this will happen to you, as well. But also that it is desperate to take this city to show progress, momentum, to show it is achieving its military goals. Because this is a key military goal because of its location between the Russian border and that Russian-controlled annexed territory of Crimea.

VAUSE: What we saw in Kherson was the resistance. Those protesters being fired upon. And that's got to be of enormous concern.

BLACK: Indeed. Because in every city like this, there is clearly people who are unhappy about this Russian occupation. And I guess it's a source of concern, perhaps, for the Russians, in the event that they do take control of more urban centers, because they don't just have to fight a war. They don't just have to advance. They have to suppress the local population, who are clearly so unhappy to see them there.

BERMAN: All right. Phil Black, great to see you. Thank you so much for being with us this morning.

So who is Russia's top military commander in Ukraine? You would think that would be a simple question to answer, but U.S. defense officials have been unable to identify a commander. That could explain the command and control problems that Russian troops have had so far.

According to the Pentagon, Russia has failed to achieve most of its military objectives in this country.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis live in Washington with her reporting on this. Katie Bo, what have you learned?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. So multiple U.S. officials -- I should say multiple sources familiar with the matter, not all of them U.S. officials, have -- have told us that the United States has been unable to determine exactly who the top senior leader, the top military leader on the ground leading Ukraine -- sorry, leading Russian troops in Ukraine is.

The kind of theater-wide commander that the United States would anticipate that Russia or any professional military would put into place to run its war in a coherent fashion.

Now, the Russian ministry of defense has declined to respond to requests for comment from CNN, but our sources tell us that different -- different Russian units from different military districts that are operating in offensives in different parts of Ukraine appear to be acting almost independently of one another.

[06:05:05]

They are competing for resources, rather than coordinating the way the United States might expect if they were under a single leader with a single coherent vision for the campaign.

And John, this is all happening as sources also tell us that the Russians are having a tremendous difficulty with secure communications. Their troops and commanders on the ground are communicating at times on commercial cell phones and other insecure lines that the Ukrainians are able to intercept and then use to develop their own targets for counterstrikes against the Russian forces.

And in some instances, according to a source familiar with the intelligence, Russian troops are actually being cut off from their commanders, their senior commanders that are further behind them. So a unit might go forward out on a mission. Something might go wrong. And then they can't radio home for further instructions.

So, really when it comes to what the military calls command and control, the Russians have some pretty big problems.

BERMAN: It really does burst the bubble of this concept of this modernized, high-tech military that the Russians were thought to have had.

Katie Bo Lillis, terrific reporting. Thank you so much.

LILLIS: Thank you so much.

KEILAR: All right. Let's bring in CNN military analyst and retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks to talk more about this.

So they don't know who is in charge. If there is someone in charge overall, they don't know. Is that odd?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's extremely odd. When you look at the map, you kind of get a sense of it. What we're talking about is a thing called command and control.

So who -- who's in charge? And what you see here is essentially three separate fights that are going on.

Now, that's no big deal, other than they're extremely stretched. Their resources are spread very, very thin. The Ukrainians have some great success here. They've reclaimed that city.

So when you look at that, you go, OK, I've got these three different fights going on. But how do I synchronize air power? How do I synchronize naval support? Where do my long-range fires go? All of those assets belong to somebody who has to redirect those based on success. You want to reinforce success. It's not happening here. These are independent fights that are going on right now.

KEILAR: So is there someone, you think, and we just don't know? Or you think it seems like there is no one? MARKS: Well, I would say -- I've had my own filter. My own filter is,

of course, there's some big guy in charge. There's got to be.

But when you look at that, it defies logic. And you go back to this question. Is there command and control, or did they just say, Go get these targets in these specific areas, because they didn't anticipate this level of resistance. They thought it was going to be an easier fight. And they probably went in cheap in terms of the command and control. That's a bad decision.

KEILAR: If there's someone in charge, maybe they need to do a better job, right, as we're looking at this.

Can we talk about the different dynamics between, say, a Kyiv and a Mariupol? Mariupol right now encircled. They have not surrendered. They have defied Russian calls to surrender. And yet, this is a very harrowing situation here. Is Kyiv different?

MARKS: Yes. The difference is you just look at the geography. With Mariupol, obviously you've got naval forces from the Russians that can control all of that. And there are limited access of retreat for the civilians.

So the support activity, the military activity is to the attacker's advantage here. That's why the Russians have enjoyed great success in Mariupol. It's also a much smaller objective.

Then you go to Kyiv. And all the fighting in Kyiv is located here. So, that's where the Russians are trying to bang away at the city. And over here in Makariv, they've had limited success. In fact, the Ukrainians, as we just said, have just taken that back.

But you have all of this where Ukrainians can either depart or can provide reinforcement. That's the significant difference between both of these.

KEILAR: Right now, we're watching the Russians increasingly use what's called dumb munitions, versus smart munitions. Tell us about this.

MARKS: Yes, dumb munitions are what we call artillery and rockets. They're aimed in a general direction, certain Azimuth, certain range. And they go hit what they hit.

And we've seen an increase in terms of precision munitions, I think, for one reason. One, the Russians want to make sure that the world knows that they have this capability with the hypersonics in particular. We don't have it. They do. Watch us. We just used this thing.

But we're going to see an increase in terms of the dumb weapons, because they don't have to waste the precision munitions to go after fixed targets. We use precision munitions to go after very precise, very unique targets and often mobile targets, because we can guide those things in. And we have very good tactical intelligence.

When the U.S. and our partners go to war, we have intelligence on the ground that's providing sighting and recognition. And we can then guide those munitions in. And we can do that against mobile targets.

The Russians have demonstrated they have zero ability to do that. So they're just going to lob all these stupid weapon systems and hope they hit hospitals and hope they hit buildings. I mean, it's absolutely brutal. It's tragic. It's a war crime when you're going after those kind of targets.

KEILAR: They don't have, it appears, people on the ground calling in coordinates. We've all seen movies. Right? That's when someone is on the ground, calling in coordinates. That would be precision-guided munition.

MARKS: Exactly. You're marking the target. You're talking to some munition system, and you're saying, Deliver on this specific ten-digit coordinate, that level of detail can go after that vehicle or that vehicle, and they may be 20 meters apart. It's that level of precision that we can achieve.

The Russians are inept. They have demonstrated they cannot do that. So they resort to dumb weapon systems and brutal kind of carpet bombing- type tactics.

KEILAR: Yes. We're seeing the effect of that in the areas clearly where there are only civilian targets, right? That's also what we're seeing. Sir, thank you so much for walking us through that. Appreciate it.

The city of Mariupol remains, as we were just talking about here, under constant assault. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the city is being reduced to ashes, but he insists it will survive. Why a senior NATO official says all signs are pointing to a stalemate, next.

A Russian TV host calling out Arnold Schwarzenegger after the movie star and former California governor implored the Russian people not to fall for the propaganda coming from the Kremlin.

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[06:15:42]

KEILAR: With Ukrainian forces putting up a strong resistance and Russia struggling to achieve its goals a senior NATO official says all signs point to a stalemate in Ukraine.

He also warns a stalemate is particularly dangerous, because as Russian President Vladimir Putin grows increasingly desperate, he's resorting to more severe tactics.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is live for us in Brussels, Belgium, with more -- Natasha.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. So the senior NATO intelligence official telling us that all signs are pointing to a stalemate emerging in this conflict. And that's really remarkable, he says, given the disparity at the outset of this war between the Russian army and the Ukrainian forces.

But the Russian army really has not been able to make the kinds of advances across the country that it had wanted to, of course including that key military objective of taking the city of Kyiv, which they thought they could do within a couple of days here.

And so, given that that Russian advance is stalled on the ground, they have resorted, according to U.S. And western defense officials, to using these indiscriminate bombing campaigns to try to force these cities across Ukraine into surrender, given the fierce resistance that those Ukrainian cities have put up over the last month.

They've been using dumb bombs. They've been using less precision- guided munitions that they're actually running out of, according to a senior U.S. defense official. And in their place, they're using indiscriminate bombing campaigns using missiles and air strikes in order again to get these cities to -- to surrender.

Now, the Russians and the Ukrainians have been negotiating. They have undergone about four rounds of negotiations since the war began. But neither side at this point seems willing to give -- give an inch in order to end this war. Right?

The Ukrainians have said they might be willing to forego NATO membership, but that's not really, according to experts and analysts that we've spoken to, what Russia is really looking for at this point.

They are looking for far more than that before they're willing to withdraw their forces from Ukraine. So things like demilitarization of Ukraine, which Ukraine is just not willing to do, of course.

And so, it remains to be seen how this conflict is actually going to end. And right now, what officials are telling us is that Ukraine and Russia do not seem willing at this point to back down in any way. And, of course, that is going to be the hardest -- the hardest-hit people in this conflict are going to be the civilians, of course, Brianna.

KEILAR: Certainly, they are. And that is something Vladimir Putin is doing to increase his leverage in these negotiations.

Natasha, thank you so much for that report.

BERMAN: So, Russian television now responding to Arnold Schwarzenegger and his blistering video, in which the actor and former California governor condemned the war and asked the Russian people to not believe the Kremlin's claims.

Now, one Russian host dismissed the video as American propaganda, an example of, quote, "imperialism and colonialism," and he took personal shots at Schwarzenegger. Keep in mind, Schwarzenegger is a major figure in Russia. He's one of only 22 people that Putin follows on Twitter.

Joining me now is contributing editor at "Vanity Fair," Sebastian Junger. He recently published, "Can Ukrainian Freedom Fighters Stand Up to the Russian Military? History Suggests They Can." This article can be found on "Vanity Fair's" website. And Sebastian is also the author of "Freedom."

Thank you so much for being with us. I think people might wonder, why am I asking you about Arnold Schwarzenegger? He's just an actor. Tell, the answer is because clearly the Russians care about what he has to say. What do you make of their response?

SEBASTIAN JUNGER, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": Yes. Well, it seems like sort of typical propaganda. I mean, the best propaganda for the Russians would have been the Ukrainians welcoming them with open arms.

And then -- Russia could say to the West, Look, see? We told you that we're preferable to your corrupt ways. Right?

And -- but that didn't happen. So they had to fall back on sort of older propaganda of Naziism, which, of course, is you know, fairly recent memory and horrible memory in the Russian experience.

And just the sort of projection that I think you've seen, for example, Donald Trump do. I mean, sort of right out of the playbook. You accuse others of doing what you yourself are doing, and it just scrambles reality.

And so, when you accuse Schwarzenegger of actually being the aggressor, it confuses the fact that it's Russia that's in Ukraine, not the other way around. It -- it sort of resets -- tries to reset to zero.

[06:20:08]

And in an ecosystem, an information ecosystem like Russia, where people really mostly get information fed by the government, it's not hard to reset that information.

BERMAN: Yes. It seems to me if you're in a propaganda war with Arnold Schwarzenegger you're already losing.

Sebastian, I want to talk to you about the situation on the ground here in Ukraine, which is stalemate. That's the word being used by NATO military officials right now.

You've written this really great piece in VanityFair.com about why the Ukrainian resistance has been effective. If there is a stalemate and the Russians resort to these terror tactics -- indiscriminate bombing, leveling cities -- you know, what does history tell us about the likely response and how that will have an impact on the Ukrainian people?

JUNGER: Well, you know, first of all, the smaller force often wins. History is filled with examples of that.

And there are some specific reasons. The dynamics of a contest, whether it's in mixed martial arts by one person versus another, or in insurgency and warfare, the dynamics are really complicated. So size and strength have an advantage, obviously. But so does being small. You use less resources when you're small, either as an individual or as an army.

And also think of it this way. For the Russian soldiers, if they fail to take Ukraine, they go home, and they pick up their lives where they left them off, right? Their lives don't change.

For the Ukrainian soldier, for the Ukrainian civilians, the outcome of the fight very much determines what happens in their lives in the future.

So, when you're in a position of fighting to maintain your life as you knew it, many people feel that it's preferable to die than to give that fight up.

That can't be true for the Russians. They are the invaders. They would go home if this doesn't work.

So on a basic level, the motivating factor is incredibly powerful with a smaller force like Ukraine. And this reminds me of Sarajevo, which was, you know, 1993, '94. The Serb -- Bosnian Serb military, which is orthodox, like the Russians, they had the backing of the Russians, of what used to be the Soviet Union.

They -- they besieged Sarajevo, and as the assault failed on the ground, they just resorted to bombardment, using planes and bombs and artillery; sort of a sign that the soldiers are foiled in doing their work.

And so what they -- what they tried to do, what the Bosnian Serbs tried to do was basically terrify and starve the Sarajevans out of their city.

And but what's really interesting is that the more you do that, the more determined the resistance becomes. We found that -- the U.S. found that out in World War II. The German cities that we bombed most heavily had the highest morale. Not the lowest. Had the highest morale and were the hardest to defeat.

BERMAN: President Zelenskyy has suggested that people of Mariupol may have saved tens of thousands of lives across Ukraine by their resistance so far.

Sebastian Junger, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.

JUNGER: My pleasure.

BERMAN: OK. Much more on the breaking news. Ukraine says it has reclaimed a suburb of Kyiv from the Russians. We're going to speak to a member of the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy's, cabinet ahead.

Plus, President Biden warning business leaders to prepare for potential Russian cyberattacks. What the White House plans to do if that happens, next.

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[06:27:59]

KEILAR: President Biden is warning U.S. business leaders to prepare for Russian cyberattacks. With the war in Ukraine going so badly for the Kremlin, intelligence is suggesting that the Russian leader may be ready to target American companies.

Arlette Saenz has the latest from the White House. What is this warning here, Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, President Biden issued a stark warning that Russia may launch cyberattacks against the United States, in retaliation in part for those punishing sanctions that have been imposed on Russia since its invasion of Ukraine.

This is of serious concern to the White House, as Russia has the cyber capabilities to possibly wreak havoc on American companies and critical infrastructure.

And last night, President Biden spoke to business leaders, urging them to bolster their cyber defenses, basically portraying it as a patriotic obligation for these companies to remain vigilant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My administration issued new warnings that based on evolving intelligence, Russia may be planning a cyberattack against us. As I said, the magnitude of Russia's cyber capacity is fairly consequential, and it's coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, the top cyber official here at the White House yesterday said that there was no specific credible threat at this moment that Russia is about to launch a cyberattack, but that the administration has seen Russia engaging in preparatory activity. That includes scanning websites and looking for possible software vulnerabilities.

The administration last week held a classified briefing with companies and sectors that could be impacted, offering advice about what they could do to try to protect their systems.

But clearly, this is of top concern to the White House as they continue to watch Russia's next moves and as President Biden continues to warn that cyber warfare is part of Russian President Vladimir Putin's playbook -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Arlette. Thank you for the latest on that from the White House.

The father of a 2-year-old boy killed in this war with a powerful and damning message for Russia.

Plus, after working non-stop for nearly four weeks, a sudden and dramatic development for the staff of the Russian-controlled Chernobyl nuclear power plant. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)