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Sen. Angus King (I-ME) Discusses Biden's Plans To Sanction Russian Lawmakers Amid NATO Trip; Ukrainian Punk Band Rages Against War: "F*** You" To Russians; Ketanji Brown Jackson Defends Record Against GOP Attacks. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 23, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:54]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: CNN has learned President Biden plans to slap more sanctions this week on hundreds of Russians serving in the country's lower legislative body, setting off what's expected to be a slew of new steps to punish Russia.

Biden, here in about an hour, is heading to Europe for a series of global summits tomorrow on confronting Russia's unprovoked war against Ukraine.

So let's talk about this now with Sen. Angus King. He is a member of the Intelligence and Armed Services Committees, and he also just returned from Poland and Germany where he met with Ukrainians and met with NATO leaders, and he also met with refugees as well. Senator, I thank you so much for being with us.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): Sure.

KEILAR: It sounds like this trip may be of huge consequence. And we've gotten some hints about more sanctions, hints of some sort of change maybe to force posture. What can Biden announce?

KING: Well, I think -- I think the -- I think you're right. I think this trip is a big deal and I'm sure there will be additional sanctions.

And the question is what the -- what the Ukrainians need more than anything else right now is anti-aircraft -- not necessarily a no-fly zone. Because the problem in Ukraine is coming from missiles and artillery, not from airplanes. So a no-fly zone really wouldn't accomplish that much in terms of protecting them.

[07:35:11]

But they're -- we're moving in anti-aircraft from various NATO countries, including the U.S. -- Stinger missiles -- but they only go up -- they're helicopter, basically. They won't -- they won't hit airplanes high in the sky and they don't take out missiles.

So I think those are the kinds of things that are -- that are going on.

What's happening, Brianna is that it's dawning on the world that Ukraine can win this war. And so, that's going to up the ante I think and it's going to put more pressure on Putin.

KEILAR: That force posture, though -- we've seen U.S. troops dramatically increase. There weren't a ton in terms of how many were there but it's gone from 4,000 to 10,000. That's quite an increase.

Do you see that changing? Do you see that diminishing anytime soon?

KING: Not anytime soon because what that -- those troops aren't in Ukraine. They are along the --

KEILAR: That's right.

KING: -- eastern border in the Baltic states and in Poland. And they're really a deterrent. They're a signal to Putin don't go into NATO. Don't cross the border into the Baltic states or into Poland because we're build -- we're building forces there that will resist.

And I think one of the things that this war has shown is the weakness of the Russian army, which people -- they're 10 feet tall. Well, they aren't. They're being stopped, essentially, by -- you know, by a much smaller --

KEILAR: Yes.

KING: -- force of Ukrainians. The Russians have almost their whole army in this -- in this fight.

KEILAR: Yes, they're not 10 feet tall; they're raiding minimarts (ph) and as we understand it, have some frostbite at this point in time. And morale is low. It's a very different scene.

I want to ask you -- the Russian ambassador to Indonesia -- and he's the one who said this because the G20 is in November in Indonesia. He said Putin wants to go. Should the U.S. and other G20 countries --

KING: Wants to go --

KEILAR: Wants to go to the G20 summit.

Should the U.S. and other G20 countries boot Putin out --

KING: Yes.

KEILAR: -- of --

KING: Yes. You know, the G20 is a -- is a group of countries that work together on economic issues and resolve issues peacefully and through international processes, and Russia's thrown all that out the door. So I think absolutely.

This is -- what he's done, ironically, is solidified the Ukrainian identity. They will never integrate with Russia now. They can't stand Russia or Putin. Plus, he's unified the West and he's making Russia a pariah nation and I think we should help him in that process.

KEILAR: Next step may be cyber because the FBI says hackers associated with the Russian government have begun to probe U.S. energy companies. What are you expecting here, and at what point would a Russian cyberattack illicit a conventional warfare response?

KING: The second question there's no clear answer to because cyber conflict is so new there's no definition of what is an act of war and what would constitute a response. Clearly, I think there needs to be a response. It could be cyber for cyber. It could be greater sanctions.

Here's the -- here's the important thing. I really think the administration's done the right thing by announcing this -- these probes. Normally, the Intelligence Community holds this information close. And the fact that we've announced it publicly, now the private sector -- those energy companies, financial electric companies, the grid -- they're on notice and they've really got to buckle down on their protection.

Brianna, cyber defense starts at the desktop. Eighty-five percent of cyberattacks work through phishing emails. Somebody in the system hitting an email that says Google says you've got to change your password. That's where the defense has to start.

So I think the administration announcing these probes is absolutely the right thing to do. Now, the private sector has to step up and really expand their cyber protection activities.

KEILAR: Putin's top spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, will not rule out using nuclear weapons in the case of an existential threat -- that's what he called it -- to Russia.

Do you think the U.S. has a good understanding of what constitutes an existential threat to Vladimir Putin?

KING: Well, it's regime change, for sure, and it's attacks on the homeland. The problem is they defined, at the beginning of this conflict, Ukraine as part of the ancestral homeland, so you get into those kinds of parsing phrases.

But here's the real problem. They view -- the Russians have a different view of nuclear weapons than anybody else in the world that has them, including us. They view nuclear weapons as part of their arsenal. Just, you know, you've got tanks and artillery, and nuclear weapons.

[07:40:01]

And they have a doctrine that's announced called escalate to de- escalate. And what that means is if we're losing on the battlefield we'll use nuclear weapons to kind of level the playing field and force our adversaries to negotiate. That's a terrifying prospect because our view is a nuclear weapon, and if it's a tactical -- excuse me -- a smaller outcome, that's still a nuclear weapon.

Ronald Reagan says nobody wins a nuclear war. And we've sort of been away from the threat of nuclear war for a while and I think that people haven't really fully grasped the enormity of what this kind of exchange would mean.

So this is why we've got to be careful. Vladimir Putin, at this moment, is the most dangerous man in history. He's an autocrat, he's a tyrant, he's aggressive, he wants to expand his country through force, and he has nuclear weapons -- the second-largest stockpile in the world. And so, this is an exceedingly dangerous moment.

I just finished a book on the Cuban missile crisis. This is clearly, to me, the most dangerous moment our country has faced since the Cuban missile crisis.

KEILAR: Yes, it's a different game with nuclear weapons.

Senator Angus King, great to have you in studio. Thank you for being here.

KING: Nice to be here.

KEILAR: Just in, we're getting word that Russian forces have stolen a convoy of buses. There were almost a dozen buses that were driving into Mariupol to rescue people. Mariupol is being called the center of hell in Ukraine right now.

Plus, a Ukrainian punk rock band is reworking a classic anthem by The Clash, all in the name of the Ukrainian resistance. And John Berman spoke with the band that says Kyiv is calling and they hope the world is listening.

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[07:46:10]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. John Berman in Lviv in western Ukraine.

I want to tell you about a punk rock band here named Beton, which means concrete, which is a fitting name because their message is rock- solid. They have just recorded a cover of a famous song with a powerful message to the Russians and the world.

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BETON, PUNK ROCK BAND: Kyiv calling to the faraway towns. Now war is declared and battle come down.

BERMAN (voice-over): "Kyiv Calling," a reworking of the famous song from The Clash, "London Calling."

BETON: Kyiv calling and we ain't got no planes, so clear our skies, stop the rockets of pain.

BERMAN (on camera): What message are you trying to send?

ANDRIY ZHOLOB, LEAD SINGER, BETON: Message that we are struggling, we are stubborn. We stay strong but we need help.

BETON: The iron age is coming, the curtains coming down. Meltdown expected, the wheat is growing thin. Engines stop running, and I have no fear cause Kyiv is rising. We live by resistance.

ZHOLOB: We are the band who pretends to be those who resist. We do the resistance.

BERMAN (on camera): Is this part of the resistance?

ZHOLOB: Yes.

BERMAN (voice-over): It includes the now-famous phrase that has become a Ukrainian anthem.

BETON: Kyiv calling, see we cannot retreat. We're already home, so Russia ships f**k you.

ZHOLOB: You don't know the story on that.

BERMAN (on camera): I know the story.

ZHOLOB: You know the story. Explicit lyrics suddenly became not something forbidden but, you know, something like spitting up the hate. Something like spitting up the demons of pain from your throat.

BERMAN (voice-over): But they say it's not exactly anger that drives them.

ZHOLOB: It's not anger, it's rather nerve. We are nervous about our families. We are nervous about people who all around us.

We are shouting the song. We are -- really, we not only singing but we are shouting this song. We are screaming this song.

BERMAN (voice-over): The Clash have agreed that any proceeds will go to help relief efforts. The band here hopes the song reaches around the world. They also hope it reaches their friends on the front lines.

ZHOLOB: Our friends -- soldiers from the war zone -- they call us -- you know, guys, maybe 300 meters from us, explosions. We listen to your song. We understand. It helps them.

BERMAN (voice-over): Lead singer Andriy spends his days as an orthopedist. He's been treating refugees, mostly with the injuries of being crushed in crowds lugging bags hundreds of miles -- the injuries, but also the trauma.

ZHOLOB: They come. They sit next to me and their hands are trembling. They've lost their house, their garden, their dog, maybe somebody of their family. They are afraid. And also, they have trauma.

BERMAN (on camera): Are you guys -- are you afraid?

ZHOLOB: Sure we do. It's normal to be afraid. We are adult. We understand that every day can be the last one (INAUDIBLE). BERMAN (voice-over): Fear is part of life here now but so is resistance. And if anyone thinks it will break, this band has a message. Kyiv -- it is calling.

[07:50:00]

BETON: Kyiv is calling. Kyiv is calling. I never felt so much alike, alike, alike, alike, alike, alike, alike, alike, alike, alike, alike.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: That was a phenomenal story --

BERMAN: Yes.

KEILAR: -- and it just reminds you when you're looking at a resistance like we're seeing from Ukraine it's all hands on deck. It's every member of society bringing whatever talents or skills they have to bear, whether it's -- you know, he's an orthopedist or it's music that is inspiring people on the front lines.

BERMAN: This is their resistance. I mean, how great would it be if this song went huge -- went worldwide? I mean, look, the lyrics are terrific. You listen to them and they send a clear message there.

But you're right. I mean, these guys are living in a war right now. And they were telling me they -- every time the air raid sirens go off they run downstairs. They run to their basements because they know that it is dangerous to be here. And they're just doing what they can.

KEILAR: Great story. Thank you so much for bringing that, John.

BERMAN: All right. President Biden's Supreme Court -- President Biden's Supreme Court nominee defending her record against a barrage of attacks from Senate Republicans. Plus, the surrounding areas in Ukraine's capital facing a full-on battle raging for almost 24 hours. We're live on the ground in Kyiv, next.

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[07:55:32]

KEILAR: Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, the first Black woman nominated to the Supreme Court, will face another round of questions this morning after spending hours on Tuesday defending her record against multiple Republican accusations.

Let's talk about this now with CNN+ anchor Audie Cornish. Audie, it is great to have you on NEW DAY this morning --

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN+ ANCHOR: Thank you so much for having me.

KEILAR: -- to talk about this. Such a big process. Such a historic process we're going through on Capitol Hill these few days here.

She defended her record against Republican accusations. Let's listen to this first and then discuss it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I do agree with both Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Barrett on this issue. Roe and Casey are the settled law of the Supreme Court concerning the right to terminate a woman's pregnancy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK, that -- actually, that was her position on Roe v. Wade, saying that it's settled law.

What do you think about what she means to this argument and the future of the law?

CORNISH: Well, I think it's interesting that she was asked this kind of question, but also very specific questions about, say, fetal personhood, right?

These are issues that directly could come before the court. Lawmakers know she can't answer. They know that the way she answers has great implications going forward. It's really just about getting the question asked out loud and sort of trying to force her into some kind of reveal so to speak. I would say probably 25 to 30 years of hearings have taught us that nominees are not going to do that.

KEILAR: What do you make, so far, of the Republican lines of questioning that have been lobbed against here -- everything from saying that she's not tough on child pornography -- people who have been convicted of that. That she defends terrorists. That she's a Marsha Blackburn. Talking about how she's a huge proponent of critical race theory when clearly, the facts don't support what she's talking about.

CORNISH: The cynical view is that opponents want to hear her deny things, right, even if they know it's not true. Another way to look at it is that the road to the federal bench is much easier for people with corporate clients, for people who are in politics. It is very difficult for people who have any kind of criminal defense experience. And in her case, let's look at it. It's about 2 1/2 years.

But even her time on the Sentencing Commission is being held against her. Nobody wants to defend child molesters or terrorists, or anything like that.

But enforcing her to have a conversation that involves nuance in a media environment that does not reward it, you have her essentially playing defense, right? Instead of talking about the historical nature of her nomination, instead of talking about the reams and reams of other kinds of rulings that she has, she is now in the position of having to defend a constitutionally-mandated role, for instance, right, of representing people that need representation.

And, you know, it says a lot about why people with that kind of experience cannot advance in this current environment or, I guess, just in general.

KEILAR: This is historic. Do you think that is coming through and that will come through today?

CORNISH: I will say that there is an entire generation, in particular of Black and brown women, that this judge, in a way, is an avatar for or represents, meaning she is the logical conclusion of the promise of integration, right. The promise of the work that Thurgood Marshall had done.

Those photos of her in Harvard with other young Black women laughing -- you know, talking about their education -- the people who have come up with her. There's a vast number of voters who also look like her, right, and we've seen them exert their power in the last few elections. I'm not sure this is a bear you want to poke because their activism is quite strong.

And I think that is something that we should all remember -- that for many women who look and sound like Judge Jackson, they are used to having people second-guess their credentials in one way or another. They're used to having to smile in the face of people who doubt them. And they don't look at her and see anything unusual, right. They see something that, in a way, they might identify with.

KEILAR: Yes, it is on full display. I think that might be the difference. It is on --

CORNISH: Yes.

KEILAR: -- full display there on Capitol Hill.

Audie, thank you so much. It is wonderful to have you.